This may be unrelated and not allowed in yhe sub. I completely understand if so.
Anyway, I would like to know how to apply this method to AP. It seems like it would be useful to dependibly dilate time and experience longer projections but I am having trouble envisioning a process to get it done.
Usually, when I AP from an LD, I end the LD. I do so with a brief quieting of the mind. This puts me back behind my eyelids in the mind-awake-body-asleep state from which I can produce a separation.
However, the twin positions needs to be done
within
an LD. If I end the LD but do not wake up, does the effect last still?
I tried it last night without much of a plan and found myself fumbling for my next steps. The next steps did not obviously appear to me as I thought they would.
If anyone has any advice, it would be much appreciated. Thank you
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\^\^\^
It's unfortunate that we here tend to abbreviate 'Assemblage Point' as AP, leading to misinterpretations at times.
But I can't see much of anything for it...except additional context.
Believing in Astral Projection took away all the fun I could’ve had with lucid dreaming
You can still have that fun. Nothing has changed 🥰
Things have changed I can have much more fun with my dark room
Read The Art of Dreaming, we have that book and others for free on the Internet Archive
Unfortunately, like the previous comments have said, astral projection is not real. Additionally, lucid dreaming does not have enough power to do the kind of things you want, not without sorcery.
If you are a woman, dreaming is a valid path, but if you’re a man, you have to do it with the darkroom practices while fully awake and sober, with eyes fully open. Otherwise, it’s a larpfest just like the rest of the LD and AP communities, no offense.
Astral Projection is simply Lucid Dreaming with extra layers of frosting applied (empty calories).
And the twin positions, an offshoot of the intent of the Ancient Mexican Seers, wouldn't mix well with whatever you've hooked yourself to.
Can't add an eyedropper of grape juice to a swimming pool and call it wine 🫤.
To extend the analogy, you've got to jump into the vat, bare-footed, and stomp the grapes to get the raw stock (pursue concomitant sorcery practices that synergistically support the twin positions maneuver)...since it's the sorcerer's intent that allows the twin positions to function in the first place.
And such an intent doesn't get invoked in a procedural vacuum (has to age/mature, in specific environmental conditions, just as in winemaking).
Understood. It is not practiced without its prerequisites.
once the wine has aged-- wouldn't an act of will be needed to apply an intention? your statement here seems to imply that patience is needed. which is it?
Persistence as well. And the intent is set by the "aging" itself (it's cumulative), by our procedures/actions.
>Is this something that is done?
Humans can do anything they can think of.
But if it's pretending like Astral projection, the amount of wasted effort to simulate it is beyond what anyone is willing to do.
So "astral projector" people are simply liars. They don't even do what they claim. They just misrepresent random dreams, to get attention from other humans.
If anyone did do that daily, reliably, they'd discover there's so much more that whatever system they were following becomes obvious to them as an ugly scam.
But it wouldn't help them even then. Even if they learned to do "astral projection" make believe reliably, and every single day.
If they managed to repeat that imaginary technique daily so they could begin to understand what's going on, they'd have 3000 more years of discovery before they could reach the levels of magic sorcery does.
It was developed over thousands of unbroken years by tens of thousands of Olmec sorcerers. Centered near 6000 BC.
Long before money and cities. Thus no one to exploit with fake magic, and everything they discovered was real. And done only for themselves. Never seeking attention from others over it. The old seers took small children, as the Jedi do, and taught them.
Teaching an adult is impossible without a large group of powerful sorcerers to help.
We get around that by searching through thousands of new people, using the internet, hoping to find a few who are self-motivated.
No one man could ever get even a small distance in the path the Olmecs created, without hooking themselves directly to their techniques and knowledge.
Anything that rose up after money was invented around 6000 years ago is a total scam.
Astral Travel was created by Robert Monroe using crappy Christian and Hindu delusions, in order to steal from this very community. By giving people an excuse to pretend, with endorsement by his "institute".
Monroe targeted the fans of Carlos Castaneda so that he could steal with make believe magic.
I'm going to feature Monroe in a cartoon one day, to show what he actually did.
Younger people don't realize his ugly history.
As for "twin positions", it's totally pointless and inapplicable here.
It's just something bad men picked up to increase their pretending ordinary dreams into magic they really are not.
If you follow the instructions in "Art of Dreaming" from which it came, the twin positions are used when you start out awake, NOT asleep.
You lay in the position you choose, and go directly into dreaming, FULLY AWAKE.
Something you can only do with absolute internal silence, and YEARS of practice.
No "astral traveler" can even come close to being silent, or they'd give up that nonsense.
See my post from yesterday for why.
Once in a waking lucid dream, THEN you lay down in the same position, inside the dream, and go to sleep.
The result is, you can stay in a dream at the rate of 1 hour per week of dream time.
It's a dream within a dream.
But you actually only ever went to sleep once. You don't have to sleep, to dream!
Again, there's no limit to the ugly pretending in magical communities.
I'm sure some astral travelers have added make believe from other places too, hoping to steal more attention.
This seems to be the only place free from that kind of ugliness.
It's also the only place free from profit motivations.
So anyone who posts here, gets more truth than they were hoping for.
If their head doesn't explode, we figure they might have a chance to learn.
If they aren't too lazy to actually work hard.
But it's never a good sign when new people show up, and post as you have done.
They're usually "testing the waters" to see if they can steal attention from this group too.
You can't.
Attention does not mean as much to most people as I believe you think it does, based on what you're saying.
The world really isn't that dark. I truly truly promise that 🙏 honesty does prevail.
It's one of those things... where you can't see it until you believe it –The goodness of men. But I hope you do most other days if not today. Bc it hurts way less.
Some of those APers can be trusted.
Edit: I take it back. All that being said, I do understand the importance of conviction in sorcery. Your belief system is what allows your magick to work. I do not wish to change that belief system. Not at all. And couldn't.
You do you. I will do me.
This place isn't for pretending.
You should go elsewhere.
You can still hold your belief will not disparaging others.
Being called a liar and a pretender isn't fun when you know otherwise. I'm sure you have experienced this when YOU go out into the world.
Still, the way other people have made you feel, you try to make others feel....
I am not one of those people that made you feel that way. This retaliation against the world does nothing to legitimize yourself. You are ALREADY legitimate. Don't you see?
Agh. Idle pusuits. Anyway, bye. Thank you for spending the time to respond and sharing your perspective previously.
Being afraid of bullying or tantrums from people who were on the wrong track so that you just "leave them alone", is what removed magic from the world.
Everyone afraid to point out that "the emperor has no clothes", so that you have a bunch of evil men walking around naked in parades.
Or gurus sucking up cash and taking hostages.
It's not a wise thing to defend!
We've lost a few women to that issue. They wanted things to be "nice", and everyone to be respected.
That's certainly not in the spirit of the books of Carlos and the witches.
They didn't seek to sooth, and "get along" with everyone.
They had only one goal. To teach sorcery.
Possibly the problem here is, you don't actually believe any magic is real.
So to you, it's all the same?
It’s not about belief.
In fact, actual sorcery does not work if you hold any concurrent thoughts or opinions about it whatsoever.
It’s actually rather mechanistic/scientific, but in the domain of awareness rather than matter (at least at our level of skill).
I have heard "will" being defined as holding one single intention at a time-- but I am trapped in a dream where I must intend myself forward. how are multiple intentions achieved every day?
I suspect you simply view them as being multiple, when they're actually offshoots of a more singular source. Keep to that, and any tangential intentions will also fall in line.
if reality operates like this than it must be knowable and therefore it can be mapped. it would be like mapping the sky in our own way
it's not about goodness or badness. I am stuck in a dream where I must intend myself forward. if I don't make this effort, I will not be free and have free will. I will be stuck in a world with no new ideas and death will only make me forget what I have learned. once you realize you are stuck inside you must cut yourself free and that is only done by knowing thyself and what the self is not
Wonderfully said. Your are on a mission. Well, we all are haha some are just more aware of that mission than others at this moment. Luckily, we will all get there eventually. All I can say is godspeed.