Or at the very least, don't fantasize about unrelated topics. Stick to the current subject you are recapitulating.
I am a man, I understand that when recapitulating even in the dark room, should I keep my eyes open? (I suppose if I ask to confirm)
Thank you for all the info
[-]
u/danl999
12 points2023-07-30 16:07
No, absolutely not.
That's an advanced technique, not recommended for beginners.
Recap is done sitting with the eyes closed.
When the "tentacles" and energy fibers become visible, then you might want to do it in the dark with your eyes open.
But the original technique given to us did not do that, so it's best to stick with the intent of the original.
This is one reason Jadey says people misunderstand what I write.
And she has to correct it sometimes.
But the alternative strategy is perhaps to do what Cleargreen and Being Energy did, and never talk about any actual magic at all.
Just "imply" you have some.
Also not a good strategy.
Obviously. It let the whole thing go down to the bottom of the toilet, swirling around waiting to finally flush.
My thinking is, cartoons can fix this, but you have to be careful to make the parts that correct misunderstandings be the most entertaining part.
So people don't skim over those.
I've increased the "entertainment" level in the current one.
Which is not finished.
[-]
u/Historical_Ad_6361
2 points2023-07-31 02:28
This is one reason Jadey says people misunderstand what I write.
In my case, don't worry, the translator also changes things out of nowhere
luckily I'm curious about all this
My thinking is, cartoons can fix this, but you have to be careful to make the parts that correct misunderstandings be the most entertaining part.
So people don't skim over those.
I've increased the "entertainment" level in the current one.
for the new generations, they work very well
we tend to focus our attention very easily on screens and animations
you remind me of Elias, "bringing the impossible to this plane, and making it possible so that others can perceive it"
[-]
u/danl999
3 points2023-07-31 11:03
Cholita would agree but only in that I'm nearly as fat as Elias.
Which I suppose makes her one of my 5 wives?
She would definitely not like that.
[-]
u/Historical_Ad_6361
1 points2023-07-31 12:29
look on the bright side, with a witch like that by your side
I don't think you'll ever give up
Carlos knew very well what he was doing, I suppose
thanks for all this work Dan
[-]
u/Agitated_Direction17
2 points2023-07-30 20:01
you know, i realized today that i can just do stuff without thinking about it
[-]
u/Agitated_Direction17
1 points2023-07-30 20:02
also thank you dan
[-]
u/danl999
7 points2023-07-30 20:25
That might indicate a change from being interested in teachers, to being interested in magic instead.
Our own double man Tony was a good example.
All that interested him was gurus and their endorsement.
Never got interested in magic at all.
Or by now he would have figured out he made a seriously wrong choice by going with the Dali Lama.
Instead, he seems to have doubled down on the mistake, giving interviews to explain why.
My guess is, he'll never figure it out.
At least I hope so.
What a pain in the butt a male Nagual would be, at this point.
Best thing to do in that case would be to pair him off with Cholita.
Let her take care of it.
She used to have to listen to Margarette say, "Oh Tony... Tony!!!!" while cuddling Cholita in bed.
Apparently half the inner circle women had a crush on Tony.
Most likely, at least in part, because they knew Carlos had said he was a double man, and the potential new "Nagual".
Back to Chimp Dynasty...
If the crusty old head Chimp of the tribe indicates favor to a lower chimp, putting him in line for succession, suddenly all the young female chimps find the new guy more attractive than they did the week before.
But we could just pair him off with Cholita, to keep him honest.
I can't imagine not having your skull crushed, doing what Margarette did to Cholita.
But I suppose living there came with Carlos imposed rules.
And Cholita did get his car.
I wish I'd paid more attention to that at the time.
[-]
u/Agitated_Direction17
1 points2023-07-31 15:36
Most likely, at least in part, because they knew Carlos had said he was a double man, and the potential new "Nagual".
exactly, subcociously trying to gain status
those forces are no joke!
i had to double my efforts last night bcs ive felt myself becoming content and indulgent, didnt really get too far though :/
i think my problem is ive been doing the 3 hours (sometimes 2) but not really pushing during that time, and ive been splitting it up between 1.5 hours in the morning and 1.5 hours in the evening.
i think i have to start doing the 3 hours all at once and pushing the entire time
[-]
u/TechnoMagical_Intent
2 points2023-07-31 01:34
A comment from the Facebook Version of this post:
"Here's a comment by La Gorda on the will, which will seem rather easy to an experienced darkroomer. The fact is, we have 3 dozen who are more advanced than La Gorda was, at this point in the books. Except that she had a treasure cave filled with magical experiences, just out of reach of her memory. As this quote implies:
"Will is such a complete control of the second attention that it is called the other self," la Gorda said after a long pause. "In spite of all we've done, we know only a tiny bit of the other self. The Nagual left it up to us to complete our knowledge. That's our task of remembering."
La Gorda's understanding of "stopping the world" is likewise kind of mundane and easy to do for a darkroomer.
While Carlos had to stare at an insect for hours, then speak to a bilingual coyote, and float in the air in ecstasy, La Gorda described stopping the world as any movement of the assemblage point off your shoulder blades, so that the second attention becomes visible.
I'm thinking that women are taught differently than men.
Men get the "hyped up" version of things, so that they feel it's very important.
While women get the "hint" version, because in fact that's all they need. A hint of what is needed, and they can figure out how to do it themselves.
If they got the "mansplaining" version, they might be less inclined to try. The hyped up version makes it sound too hard.
There truly is a difference in how men and women are taught sorcery."
*** The third way in which we find intent is the most rare and complex of the three; it occurs
when intent allows us to harmonize with it. Don Juan described this state as the real
moment of power: the culmination of a lifetime effort in search of impeccability. Only
supreme warriors obtain it, and as long as they are in such state, intent lets itself be
handled by them at will. It is as if intent had fused in those warriors, and in doing so it
transforms them into a puré forcé, without preconceptions. Seers cali this state the "intent
of the second ring of power", or "will". ***
[-]
u/dorbim
4 points2023-07-31 05:41
*** They knew that their predecessors had accomplished extraordinary feats by manipulating a
mysterious and miraculous force, which they could only describe as power. The new seers had
very little information about that force, so they were obliged to examine it systematically through
seeing. Their efforts were amply rewarded when they discovered that the energy of alignment is
that force.
They began by seeing how the glow of awareness increases in size and intensity as the
emanations inside the cocoon are aligned with the emanations at large. They used that
observation as a springboard, just as they had done with stalking, and went on to develop a
complex series of techniques to handle that alignment of emanations.
At first they referred to those techniques as the mastery of alignment. Then they realized that
what was involved was much more than alignment; what was involved was the energy that comes
out of the alignment of emanations. They called that energy will.
Will became the second basis. The new seers understood it as a blind, impersonal, ceaseless
burst of energy that makes us behave in the ways we do. Will accounts for our perception of the
world of ordinary affairs, and indirectly, through the force of that perception, it accounts for the
placement of the assemblage point in its customary position. ***
[-]
u/dorbim
4 points2023-07-31 05:45
*** Don Juan said that the new seers examined how the perception of the world of everyday life
takes place and saw the effects of will. They saw that alignment is ceaselessly renewed in order to
imbue perception with continuity. To renew alignment every time with the freshness that it needs
to make up a living world, the burst of energy that comes out of those very alignments is
automatically rerouted to reinforce some choice alignments.
This new observation served the new seers as another springboard that helped them reach the
third basis of the set. They called it intent, and they described it as the purposeful guiding of will,
the energy of alignment. ***
[-]
u/danl999
6 points2023-07-31 11:29
I copied that one for cartoons. Can't use it in the first finished one, but it'll be there in the "unused texts", so I can copy it to another.
it also belongs on facebook, but I fear no one who isn't doing darkroom will understand it.
You have to see this with your own eyes, while trying to "tune in" an alien world on the walls of your darkroom.
And cross reference that with whether you get to physically walk inside today.
[-]
u/TechnoMagical_Intent
1 points2023-07-31 11:58
You got the pretend kind of asian make believe magic. Looks cool to the naive, but has virtually no potential to produce any real magic.
There's something from chat that fits this, let me grab it...
[-]
u/danl999
8 points2023-07-31 11:12
Great one!
And nice to see it happens during darkroom.
But only as "previews" to let you know that's possible.
A good example is being able to duplicate don Juan and Genaro's "magic show", where they materialized objects for Carlos.
As a rule of thumb, if you can do 3 in a row you duplicated it well enough to be in the same ballfield.
You had a run with "will" on your side.
In fact, it might be better to look at intent gifts involving "manipulating" things, in this regards.
Rather than what comes naturally, where we try to figure out if it was something we ate or what we were wearing, or some other event that allowed us this much power.
Perhaps it was a "will gift"?
An inorganic being face materializing on a puff, is not.
That's a different "gift".
I've been "plagued" with inorganic beings lately, trying to please me in dreaming so I'll go back to using them in dreaming awake.
It's very pleasant. I have to say, if anyone gets trapped in their world it might not be all that bad.
The shitty part about intent gifts, for all of the men (I'm not sure about the women) is that if you slack off, all of the most amazing magic fades away and you forget it happened.
You go back to thinking the world just just what modern man thinks it is.
The river of shit.
Which simply means, self-pity takes over again.
Could be one reason for not-doings in your life. To break up that part of the river of shit, making it easier to wade out of the pity party.
[-]
u/Emergency-Total-4851
2 points2025-05-15 05:59
"The secret of the luminous beings is that they have another ring of power which is never used, the will. The trick of the sorcerer is the same trick of the average man. Both have a description; one, the average man, upholds it with his reason; the other, the sorcerer, upholds it with his will. Both descriptions have their rules and the rules are perceivable, but the advantage of the sorcerer is that will is more engulfing than reason.
Will is the second ring of power. It's nothing complicated, it is just something we develop.
[-]
u/danl999
4 points2025-05-15 12:12
I never noticed that don Juan had equated those!
Elsewhere it says something close to, the will is like a complete control of how the emanations form into a reality. Of how the assemblage point moves and finds a new spot to settle on.
It's "will" because without it we basically would assemble endless phantom worlds, each one different, forever.
We could never exhaust the multiverse!
So we have to make choices, or just wander around the way our dreamer does when it has no purpose. It just goes from one interesting thing to another, and gets pushed around by inorganic beings because it can't figure out what's going on "overall".
Using your "will" you get to select a destination in reality and hold it in place.
The Tonal doesn't need much will. It's the accumulated reality being perceived by billions of people.
So it's held in place very strongly.
But once you go exploring into other realms of reality, you realize that those aren't held in place very well at all.
Thus the experiences of Jadey and I both suggest, in the stories in the books where Carlos went to another world with La Gorda, or Carol Tiggs, they likely weren't seeing the precise same things.
Because those realms weren't held in place solidly, like the Tonal's normal reality.
As an example, Jadey and I tried hard for a while to form a tunnel from Argentina to my home, through which I could view her, and she could walk to come visit.
I couldn't go visit her, because I do my sorcery awake.
But she uses womb dreaming, so she can visit.
I managed to spot her at the other end, and even the property she lives on. I went to google street view after the first time, to verify the vegetation.
And several times I found her off in the distance, glowing brightly.
But the first time she managed to walk through the tunnel to my side, she walked right by me as if I wasn't there. She made it through, but wasn't seeing my copy of reality. I watched her go by, unable to get her attention even though she was just 1 foot away at one point.
Cholita forbid me to grab people when in that situation, likely fearing I'd body snatch every night.
This is of course nothing new. The difficulty of two people tuning in the precise same alternate reality.
A good example is when don Juan shoved Carlos into sunday of last week, a mile away from the ticket office where they started. Carlos couldn't believe how real it was, and don Juan told him that he was there, but not seeing what Carlos was seeing.
Carlos also explained this in private classes, and at a workshop. And in Art of Dreaming, at the 4th gate where you need to wake up in the "real copy" of your room.
18 Comments
I am a man, I understand that when recapitulating even in the dark room, should I keep my eyes open? (I suppose if I ask to confirm)
Thank you for all the info
No, absolutely not.
That's an advanced technique, not recommended for beginners.
Recap is done sitting with the eyes closed.
When the "tentacles" and energy fibers become visible, then you might want to do it in the dark with your eyes open.
But the original technique given to us did not do that, so it's best to stick with the intent of the original.
This is one reason Jadey says people misunderstand what I write.
And she has to correct it sometimes.
But the alternative strategy is perhaps to do what Cleargreen and Being Energy did, and never talk about any actual magic at all.
Just "imply" you have some.
Also not a good strategy.
Obviously. It let the whole thing go down to the bottom of the toilet, swirling around waiting to finally flush.
My thinking is, cartoons can fix this, but you have to be careful to make the parts that correct misunderstandings be the most entertaining part.
So people don't skim over those.
I've increased the "entertainment" level in the current one.
Which is not finished.
In my case, don't worry, the translator also changes things out of nowhere
luckily I'm curious about all this
for the new generations, they work very well
we tend to focus our attention very easily on screens and animations
you remind me of Elias, "bringing the impossible to this plane, and making it possible so that others can perceive it"
Cholita would agree but only in that I'm nearly as fat as Elias.
Which I suppose makes her one of my 5 wives?
She would definitely not like that.
look on the bright side, with a witch like that by your side
I don't think you'll ever give up
Carlos knew very well what he was doing, I suppose
thanks for all this work Dan
you know, i realized today that i can just do stuff without thinking about it
also thank you dan
That might indicate a change from being interested in teachers, to being interested in magic instead.
Our own double man Tony was a good example.
All that interested him was gurus and their endorsement.
Never got interested in magic at all.
Or by now he would have figured out he made a seriously wrong choice by going with the Dali Lama.
Instead, he seems to have doubled down on the mistake, giving interviews to explain why.
My guess is, he'll never figure it out.
At least I hope so.
What a pain in the butt a male Nagual would be, at this point.
Best thing to do in that case would be to pair him off with Cholita.
Let her take care of it.
She used to have to listen to Margarette say, "Oh Tony... Tony!!!!" while cuddling Cholita in bed.
Apparently half the inner circle women had a crush on Tony.
Most likely, at least in part, because they knew Carlos had said he was a double man, and the potential new "Nagual".
Back to Chimp Dynasty...
If the crusty old head Chimp of the tribe indicates favor to a lower chimp, putting him in line for succession, suddenly all the young female chimps find the new guy more attractive than they did the week before.
But we could just pair him off with Cholita, to keep him honest.
I can't imagine not having your skull crushed, doing what Margarette did to Cholita.
But I suppose living there came with Carlos imposed rules.
And Cholita did get his car.
I wish I'd paid more attention to that at the time.
exactly, subcociously trying to gain status
those forces are no joke!
i had to double my efforts last night bcs ive felt myself becoming content and indulgent, didnt really get too far though :/
i think my problem is ive been doing the 3 hours (sometimes 2) but not really pushing during that time, and ive been splitting it up between 1.5 hours in the morning and 1.5 hours in the evening.
i think i have to start doing the 3 hours all at once and pushing the entire time
A comment from the Facebook Version of this post:
"Here's a comment by La Gorda on the will, which will seem rather easy to an experienced darkroomer. The fact is, we have 3 dozen who are more advanced than La Gorda was, at this point in the books. Except that she had a treasure cave filled with magical experiences, just out of reach of her memory. As this quote implies:
"Will is such a complete control of the second attention that it is called the other self," la Gorda said after a long pause. "In spite of all we've done, we know only a tiny bit of the other self. The Nagual left it up to us to complete our knowledge. That's our task of remembering."
La Gorda's understanding of "stopping the world" is likewise kind of mundane and easy to do for a darkroomer.
While Carlos had to stare at an insect for hours, then speak to a bilingual coyote, and float in the air in ecstasy, La Gorda described stopping the world as any movement of the assemblage point off your shoulder blades, so that the second attention becomes visible.
I'm thinking that women are taught differently than men.
Men get the "hyped up" version of things, so that they feel it's very important.
While women get the "hint" version, because in fact that's all they need. A hint of what is needed, and they can figure out how to do it themselves.
If they got the "mansplaining" version, they might be less inclined to try. The hyped up version makes it sound too hard.
There truly is a difference in how men and women are taught sorcery."
source
*** The third way in which we find intent is the most rare and complex of the three; it occurs
when intent allows us to harmonize with it. Don Juan described this state as the real
moment of power: the culmination of a lifetime effort in search of impeccability. Only
supreme warriors obtain it, and as long as they are in such state, intent lets itself be
handled by them at will. It is as if intent had fused in those warriors, and in doing so it
transforms them into a puré forcé, without preconceptions. Seers cali this state the "intent
of the second ring of power", or "will". ***
*** They knew that their predecessors had accomplished extraordinary feats by manipulating a
mysterious and miraculous force, which they could only describe as power. The new seers had
very little information about that force, so they were obliged to examine it systematically through
seeing. Their efforts were amply rewarded when they discovered that the energy of alignment is
that force.
They began by seeing how the glow of awareness increases in size and intensity as the
emanations inside the cocoon are aligned with the emanations at large. They used that
observation as a springboard, just as they had done with stalking, and went on to develop a
complex series of techniques to handle that alignment of emanations.
At first they referred to those techniques as the mastery of alignment. Then they realized that
what was involved was much more than alignment; what was involved was the energy that comes
out of the alignment of emanations. They called that energy will.
Will became the second basis. The new seers understood it as a blind, impersonal, ceaseless
burst of energy that makes us behave in the ways we do. Will accounts for our perception of the
world of ordinary affairs, and indirectly, through the force of that perception, it accounts for the
placement of the assemblage point in its customary position. ***
*** Don Juan said that the new seers examined how the perception of the world of everyday life
takes place and saw the effects of will. They saw that alignment is ceaselessly renewed in order to
imbue perception with continuity. To renew alignment every time with the freshness that it needs
to make up a living world, the burst of energy that comes out of those very alignments is
automatically rerouted to reinforce some choice alignments.
This new observation served the new seers as another springboard that helped them reach the
third basis of the set. They called it intent, and they described it as the purposeful guiding of will,
the energy of alignment. ***
I copied that one for cartoons. Can't use it in the first finished one, but it'll be there in the "unused texts", so I can copy it to another.
it also belongs on facebook, but I fear no one who isn't doing darkroom will understand it.
You have to see this with your own eyes, while trying to "tune in" an alien world on the walls of your darkroom.
And cross reference that with whether you get to physically walk inside today.
There's something from chat that fits this, let me grab it...
Great one!
And nice to see it happens during darkroom.
But only as "previews" to let you know that's possible.
A good example is being able to duplicate don Juan and Genaro's "magic show", where they materialized objects for Carlos.
As a rule of thumb, if you can do 3 in a row you duplicated it well enough to be in the same ballfield.
You had a run with "will" on your side.
In fact, it might be better to look at intent gifts involving "manipulating" things, in this regards.
Rather than what comes naturally, where we try to figure out if it was something we ate or what we were wearing, or some other event that allowed us this much power.
Perhaps it was a "will gift"?
An inorganic being face materializing on a puff, is not.
That's a different "gift".
I've been "plagued" with inorganic beings lately, trying to please me in dreaming so I'll go back to using them in dreaming awake.
It's very pleasant. I have to say, if anyone gets trapped in their world it might not be all that bad.
The shitty part about intent gifts, for all of the men (I'm not sure about the women) is that if you slack off, all of the most amazing magic fades away and you forget it happened.
You go back to thinking the world just just what modern man thinks it is.
The river of shit.
Which simply means, self-pity takes over again.
Could be one reason for not-doings in your life. To break up that part of the river of shit, making it easier to wade out of the pity party.
"The secret of the luminous beings is that they have another ring of power which is never used, the will. The trick of the sorcerer is the same trick of the average man. Both have a description; one, the average man, upholds it with his reason; the other, the sorcerer, upholds it with his will. Both descriptions have their rules and the rules are perceivable, but the advantage of the sorcerer is that will is more engulfing than reason.
Will is the second ring of power. It's nothing complicated, it is just something we develop.
I never noticed that don Juan had equated those!
Elsewhere it says something close to, the will is like a complete control of how the emanations form into a reality. Of how the assemblage point moves and finds a new spot to settle on.
It's "will" because without it we basically would assemble endless phantom worlds, each one different, forever.
We could never exhaust the multiverse!
So we have to make choices, or just wander around the way our dreamer does when it has no purpose. It just goes from one interesting thing to another, and gets pushed around by inorganic beings because it can't figure out what's going on "overall".
Using your "will" you get to select a destination in reality and hold it in place.
The Tonal doesn't need much will. It's the accumulated reality being perceived by billions of people.
So it's held in place very strongly.
But once you go exploring into other realms of reality, you realize that those aren't held in place very well at all.
Thus the experiences of Jadey and I both suggest, in the stories in the books where Carlos went to another world with La Gorda, or Carol Tiggs, they likely weren't seeing the precise same things.
Because those realms weren't held in place solidly, like the Tonal's normal reality.
As an example, Jadey and I tried hard for a while to form a tunnel from Argentina to my home, through which I could view her, and she could walk to come visit.
I couldn't go visit her, because I do my sorcery awake.
But she uses womb dreaming, so she can visit.
I managed to spot her at the other end, and even the property she lives on. I went to google street view after the first time, to verify the vegetation.
And several times I found her off in the distance, glowing brightly.
But the first time she managed to walk through the tunnel to my side, she walked right by me as if I wasn't there. She made it through, but wasn't seeing my copy of reality. I watched her go by, unable to get her attention even though she was just 1 foot away at one point.
Cholita forbid me to grab people when in that situation, likely fearing I'd body snatch every night.
This is of course nothing new. The difficulty of two people tuning in the precise same alternate reality.
A good example is when don Juan shoved Carlos into sunday of last week, a mile away from the ticket office where they started. Carlos couldn't believe how real it was, and don Juan told him that he was there, but not seeing what Carlos was seeing.
Carlos also explained this in private classes, and at a workshop. And in Art of Dreaming, at the 4th gate where you need to wake up in the "real copy" of your room.
https://preview.redd.it/w6z7uid5rx0f1.png?width=659&format=png&auto=webp&s=19e660eb04afd5b830db30b74efea0ea7777fd18