Tongue Dreaming

"One day the emissary's voice gave me a fabulous bonus. It said that, in order to ensure the
keenness and accuracy of our dreaming attention, we must bring it from behind the roof of the
mouth, where an enormous reservoir of attention is located in all human beings. The emissary's
specific directions were to practice and learn the discipline and control necessary to press the tip
of the tongue on the roof of the mouth while dreaming. This task is as difficult and consuming,
the emissary said, as finding one's hands in a dream. But, once it is accomplished, this task gives
the most astounding results in terms of controlling the dreaming attention."

So i bet very few people actually tried this technique.

Note: You have to use your actual tongue. Some people probably misunderstood the passage to be talking about the tongue in your dreaming.

I tried it two times already, and in my experience it is the single best tech i have done.

So what you do is you are in the darkroom ideally and i recommend chair silence. You will be pressing your tongue against the roof of your mouth for a LONG time. Relax and silence you internal dialog.

For me that was enough to get to the red zone relatively fast in comparison to when i didn't practice this before. The reason why is i think that because you relax the rest of your body, your tonal kindoff falls "asleep". But of course because your pressing your tongue pretty hard against the roof, your keeping a part if you awake.

Some of you are probably thinking. "How is this any different then silence stones or something like that"

It is not very different but here is why i think its better.

Your breathing changes significantly.

Yes this was the biggest wow factor for me because it did something to my breathing i did not expect at all. It made breathing noiceless and smooth and deeper and more efficient. That alone was enough to somehow boost me to easily get silent (easier then normal but you still have to force it and try).

Then i think what carlos is saying about some untapped energy there is definitely true. The technique works when logic said that it shouldn't.

It also forces you to clench your jaw, which is tiering but forces you to be awake when you would normally fall asleep.

Also some people might think that you will have to be asleep to be "dreaming". That is simply untrue and dreaming while your fully awake or semi awake is superior to when fully asleep. So do not fall in the trap of thinking you will be better of doing it "in" your dreams. That like thinking your better of doing transegrity in your dreams. Simply untrue and delucional thinking.

I did this technique once laying down and once in the chair. Once laying down i was seeing "glimpses" of dreams way faster, and "full", but that is because your becoming semi asleep and likley shifting sideways and your AP is becoming unstable. This runs the risk of you falling asleep. Its is also less vivid and your not remembering fully what you saw seemingly a second ago. I would not recommend laying down.

In the chair it was harder at first but i was able to precive the dream bubles or visions for way longer, as i had to fully "remove" myself from what i was seing by being so focused on pressing my tongue. I several times noticed a phenomenal thing about the weak dreaming bubles or visions. They where most vivid when you didn't pay "attention" to them. But once i started like thinking "omg this is insane", or "where is this forest", they slowly faded and i had to focus on silence and pressing my tongue harder again.

The key to doing this technique is to press your tongue hard enough for it to be a mental struggle but not so hard your mouth or tongue hurts, for obvious reasons.

Note: You really want to be taking advantage of the darkroom, as it is simply is superior. I wish someone made sleeping dreaming work, but realistically it won't happen because nobody has the discipline to keep a part of them "awake" during dreams. It takes too much effort. Unless its womb dreaming which does exactly that with great efficiency. But keep in mind that even womb dreaming is ideally done fully awake.

8 Comments

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u/danl999 15 points 2023-07-31 19:47

>The technique works when logic said that it shouldn't.

If the old or new seers did a technique, it works.

Even if there's absolutely no reason it should.

Probably most of sorcery is nonsense.

We get hints of that, with don Juan complaining about the sight of "The Eagle" as being unnecessarily gruesome.

But now they're all stuck with it, because someone saw it. It was so difficult to see the emanations themselves as a real being, that even one person succeeding made it hard to see anything else.

There's even an implication that the luminous egg is just a "construct" of the old seers.

It floated through the subreddit the other day.

And then there's witches...

Darned witches.

They don't have to follow any rules at all.

So magic is totally nuts.

But no more so than our tonal world. Our "real" reality.

What's "real" to us, just has more people lighting up those emanations, so they're difficult to ignore.

For sorcery progress all you can do is find something that "works", and if you keep that up, and hundreds more sorcerers learn it and find it works, then even if it's totally absurd, like "sunlight glitter", it doesn't matter.

All realities are merely which emanations are glowing at the moment, and that's determined mostly by repetition.

The idea of "causality" is meaningless in sorcery.

I suppose the concept of a "multi-verse" comes closest to the sorcery situation.

Except that most don't have any glow of awareness in them.

They're empty of humans.

So when you visit there, it's not particularly "stable".

Never get into an argument with someone about whether something makes sense.

You've already lost the argument when you accept the premise that things do make sense, when they're "real".

Beginners: No beliefs here.

You'll find out when you find an alien bamboo forest on your walls, as if they were giant windows.

You you think it's "not real". Just a hallucination.

Until the bamboo shoots come up in your darkroom floor as the forest spreads into your space, and you can't leave whatever you are sitting on.

That stuff hurts. I learned that on Mt. Ali.

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u/WitchyCreatureView 2 points 2023-07-31 22:28

There's another scene in that book where don Juan tells Carlos to hold his dick while falling asleep. So males have dick dreaming instead of womb dreaming.

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u/Cautious_Recipe3847 2 points 2023-08-02 09:36

Yes, it was in Amy's book. An interesting addition that was not included in the original. Although Don Juan said that it doesn't matter what to look at, just the hands were always there. But Carlos later wrote that he was talking about hands because of the editorial board of the book.

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u/monkeyguy999 3 points 2023-07-31 22:58

Learned that from a the yoga of dream and sleep many many moons ago. Problem is/was that now my tongue is almost always stuck to the top of my mouth.

Could not figure out if it's just the tip of the tongue, or can you roll it back and do it that way.

essentially where exactly. The instructions are a tad bit spotty.

Behind the roof of the mouth.....but where?

I seem to recal dan trying it a fw years back and saying something along the lines that newbies should not do it.

I dont get why you are clenching your jaw?

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u/PreciseInstance 4 points 2023-08-01 09:41

My tongue is short so i have to somewhat clench my jaw to pull it off. Also by roof i think he means the middle of the roof. So i don't see why you would roll it back that far.

Also if dan said it isn't great for beginners i see why, but i see no reason to not try. Better try something then do nothing. I bet some people who are here and read everything, likely never practice. They are just "intellectual sorcery enjoyers".

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u/monkeyguy999 1 points 2023-08-02 01:32

What about parking the tongue behind the teeth while touching the roof of the mouth?

Vrs straight tip from the middle? Or does it matteR?

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u/cuyler72 2 points 2023-08-01 02:16

That is the natural position of the tongue, it's natural for the entire surface of the tongue to contact with the roof of the mouth, but for modern humans eating softer food as children means our facial mussels never developed the way they should have.

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u/taychilla 3 points 2023-12-10 05:03

In February I had the lucidity to try the tongue raise in a dream.

“As soon as my tongue hit the upper mouth my visuals were effected immediately. To my surprise, my vision’s color desaturated and began to split, almost like crossing the eyes creates double vision. It did add a hyper-realness to my new vision type but then I looked at my hands and my fingers were only about 1/4” in diameter. They weren’t as wispy as the other times I’ve seen my hands. They seemed solid, just thin. Ultimately, the new vision introduced by the tongue raise did not stabilize, and I lost the attention of keeping my tongue to the roof of my mouth.”

I haven’t repeated this again since then, so I have no data on what happens when the tongue remains stabilized.