Posting to document the discovery.
A comment on here about the double wanting to hang out, but avoiding because of self-pity stink, got me thinking. I had been thinking about what that might mean and wondering what self-pity would look like with nothing conclusive. After stepping out of the shower and drying off, I saw a small white blur appear, move, and disappear next to the wall. I turned my head back and forth trying to figure out if I saw a reflection of something but due to the size, motion of the blur, and position of objects in the room, I concluded what I had seen was nothing I recognized. Working memory asked me "was that self pity?".
I reviewed several repeating strands of thoughts I had been thinking, analyzing for self pity. It took a minute then I realized suddenly the repetitive, chattering, thought strands were *enmeshed*, with self pity. In each strand there was a sense of being wronged or not awarded/rewarded "enough" by external forces.
This shocked me as before this experience I would have said I didn't feel like the world around me owed me anything. Analyzing the thought strands again I could notice the self pity entwined in each one. I'm now trying to be more critical of the thoughts that pop up, checking for an underlying self-pity in them.
I don't know what that white blur was.
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17 Comments
Could be some aspect of an Ally or your own double.
Don Juan wanted Carlos to see a "black dot" when he was teaching him to "use death as an advisor".
Which is much easier to explain, than to say, "Stop using self-pity as an advisor."
But it amounts to the same thing.
The black dot of 'death" was almost surely just "little smoke" the moth, messing with him.
That was the same being which swooped the campfire and don Juan pointed out it couldn't be a moth, because it's wings weren't burned off doing it.
But how to visibly picture self-pity?
Instead of just notice it in your internal dialogue.
That might only be possible in "the abstract".
Where, it's not "invalid" or "imaginary".
It's as real as this.
But it's "incomplete" from our point of view.
Maybe you could see, if you took an object made out of the emanations, and removed most of them, what's left would be "the abstract".
Not enough to produce a cozy feeling about it, an dhow it's used, and what you can tell your friends about it.
But enough to fully perceive it, and interact with it.
As long as you aren't drowning in self-pity.
Self-pity requires you to measure everything you do from the point of view of whether it's going to finally make you happy, and help you get what you deserve.
It's driven by all the energy you got tired up in past events. Fibers of the emanations inside you, still glowing with your awareness, and unable to cool off, because they're "stuck" in a past event.
And before they can ever cool off and allow that awareness you sent into those emanations to return to you, you think about them again.
Even if only briefly.
So you keep "renewing" your reality by thinking about that which bothered you in the past.
"everything you do" I think this is related to reducing the importance of decisions and matches with the passes about moving energy from the center of decisions into the energy body.
recognizing & removing self-pity -> this stops renewing the past & present -> this is erasing personal history?
Not quite, but it's good thinking.
As always in sorcery, something "obvious" also has a magical side.
I suppose "erasing personal history" is actually the tip of a giant iceberg, and the truth of the matter is, there's a bottomless pit of more below what's obvious.
You don't just erase your history.
You erase your "self".
And come to realize, every dream world you can assemble, comes with its own "history".
Every bit as real as this one!
not all are "stable", but the old seers mapped out 600 alternate "copies of yourself" you could switch over to.
But really, they're just alternate flows of sensations and feelings from the dark sea of awareness.
Just as this one, is also only just one of those 600 "cyclic being worlds".
So that "erasing personal history" could be a "path" all by itself.
It's just that no one could do that.
It's too difficult all by itself.
I've experienced this a couple times from waking up out of a sleeping dream. It was disorienting - I didn't recognize the (normal usual tonal) world I was returning too.
I have to keep something when changing tracks/worlds, right, in order to choose, so it's not random like a sleeping dream but an intentional "I will go try this world". My interpretation right now is that by giving up a sense of self + personal history we have access to other worlds with other histories. And even other entirely different modes of being. I want to move between worlds with a sense of choice, so I don't get stuck in any particular one. Is that a good approach / misguided?
Is it sensible to try and imagine specific features of alternative worlds? In practicing imagination I've found imagining specific feelings & situations is pleasant but I have a growing recognition that the drive for certain feelings & situations is derived from or driven by a reaction to my personal history.
More concretely, suppose I like skiing, should I be intending to visit other worlds where I'm skiing, or approach completely silent minded, and whatever world comes up - it might be a surprise but still great to experience and I can decide at the time?
I've found I can quiet chatter by focusing on 1 specific thing at a time - it's incredible how difficult this is, with thought strands trying to pull my attention. Is focusing on 1 specific imagination like skiing a good practice for reaching silence or is that only "changing the channel, not turning off the television"?
My instinct is that focusing is good for recognizing the channel changes to better change as needed and that practicing focus will make shutting off (go silent) easier. How accurate is this assessment?
It's more in the realm of "will" than choice. Choice is still tainted with attempts to influence the outcome, which is not a "clean link to intent".
But it won't do me any good to describe things like that for people, other than to imply "not quite, but you're on the right track".
Though it might be possible to animate such things. So that the person in the animation can experience what I'm referring to, over and over, and the viewer will hopefully get the idea.
To sum it up, cleaning your link to intent ultimately means relying on "will" to make choices for you.
You don't cause the choices. You let them flow from the emanations.
When you see one you like, you focus your will on it and it stabilizes.
But by "will" in this context, I only mean that you "recognize it", after rejecting recognizing the other flows of silent knowledge.
There will be MANY when you get good at holding it.
Just "swipe them away" as if they were pictures on your cellphone, until you see the one you like. Nott to imply any movement. I just mean, let them go. It's nice to have choices, but don't pick any until the one you want materializes.
In the long run, sorcery has a somewhat depressing truth.
We're stationary in space, just witnessing flows from the emanations which are like movies.
We're couch potatoes!
Except there isn't any actual physical reality.
And we're hopelessly attached to having one, even though it was always an illusion.
>Is it sensible to try and imagine specific features of alternative worlds?
My inclination is to say NO!!!!
However, that's only because I worry we'll end up with people who "visualize" their darkroom effects, instead of actually experiencing them for real.
We had one like that and the person was politely told to go to the discord server, to avoid harming this place with endless make believe.
So the truth is, if you imagine specific features of some alternate world, and then you DROP IT, and don't think of it again, you leave a trace in your awareness, which might be used to select the topic when you reach Silent Knowledge.
So if you visualize "evil clowns", but completely forget you did that, you have a much better chance to run into an Evil clown.
Or perhaps, the well dressed "Rinpoche" form of Evil clown.
All Rinpoches are evil clowns!
Just look at them! ChatGPT would accuse me of cultural intolerance, but I've traveled all over Asia.
They dress funny even to the locals, in an attempt to get as much attention as they can. So they can steal more money, even if it's only indirectly.
So they're clowns for sure. And since they're teaching harmful delusions for their own profit, that makes them evil.
I had to get that out.
I "saw" it in silent knowledge this morning, and it was so funny I laughed out loud.
I try to avoid that with Cholita around.
So you CAN influence which worlds assemble.
And Carlos took full advantage of that, with his "Tensegrity explanations".
Telling us what the movements do.
He was directing how reality flows when a Tensegrity form is practiced!
Stellar Hatch is a classic example. Or "Gift To Maui" as it was originally named.
So I guess, yes. Sort of. Maybe.
But never pretend when the time comes to actually experience it.
Let the Buddhists visualize things. That's all the "magic" they'll ever actually get.
>More concretely, suppose I like skiing, should I be intending to visit other worlds where I'm skiing.
You could try that. Just don't overdo it.
I won't tell my "skiing story". It involved dangerous lessons from a beautiful Norwegian woman who liked to jump up on tables in the lodge, and dance for everyone. Perhaps "Skiing" means "beer" in Norwegian.
Although a better situation for that kind of reality summoning activity would be the 1st gate of dreaming. Find your hands, tame your scout, and tell it to take you skiing.
Since you are in the second attention already, you can't mess it up with pretending.
>How accurate is this assessment?
It's leaning female if you ask me.
Sneak around the obsticles.
I prefer the "force silence until your nose bleeds and you puke" approach.
Thanks for the detailed responses
Is anxiety, or being constantly and disproportionately afraid of everything, a form of self pity? Thoughts about something happening that could put you in danger, about health, death, flyers, etc, you name it...
And how, besides telling someone to stop having self pity in an accusatory form (which might generate guilt and more of the same), or telling them to stop being afraid, how can one help them in an effective way?
Thanks.
Absolutely!
Thank goodness all that goes away in seconds, when your assemblage point moves to the other side of the body.
As for any other method to fix such negative feeling, I fear there is none.
You could temporarily convince them that "Jesus loves them", or that they have protection from "the mighty Allah", but that's just a temporary delusion based on seeking human attention in a group setting.
So if you're trying to help someone else, help yourself first.
It's like those instructions on an Airline, to put on your own oxygen mask first, before trying to help your children.
Unfortunately, even if you learn to make this work and become free from your own "self", if you try to help another person, mostly they just see you as a new source of human attention and will humor you and pretend to be interested.
For this reason, the old seers took younglings as apprentices. The Olmec people would give a child to them, at a very young age.
Those are in "automatic learning mode", so they can easily be taught sorcery, by someone who actually knows it.
But that's kind of frowned on these days...
So the new seers used "The Spirit" to select apprentices, and even then it took two Nagual double beings, and a group of 15 powerful seers, to guarantee their new apprentice would actually learn.
On our own, it's next to impossible.
Carlos must have had 10,000 "apprentices" in one form or the other, and failed to teach any after 5 years of trying.
This subreddit works because we have a lot more people giving it a try, then Carlos could arrange.
So large populations can be taught, but you only end up with a very few in the long run.
To be honest I was "asking for a friend"... it was for me. I've been rekindling this practice after a 20 year hiatus when I encountered IB's and paused this because I was frightened to death. Temporarily definitely got better, as I was losing my mind, and left the wilderness and had to face very challenging situations to make a living in a new country. Since the pandemic and in my mid 40s, I've restarted practice. I'm really trying to avoid attention seeking and even though it's unavoidable to some degree, I really want to learn and solutions to implement. One serious dilemma I'm having is anxiety. It never went away and I had it since I was a child. But it seemed to have been hiding and growing, and I hate to call it anxiety, but just for the sake of argument I'll use that word, though I think it fits into a modern narrative of indulgence and leads to therapy and medication, which I refuse to do. It's not severe or at least not disabling for me, but it's really a pest. I can be fine until any small thing triggers it, in which I make it into a storm in my mind. For instance I'm trying to quit alcohol and nowadays only drink every 2 months, but I try not to. I get really drunk and the day after I'm scared of what I did, I get into petty situations like I said stupid stuff or was stumbling and got kicked out of a bar. Then I worry so much that it will get me in trouble, or someone coming after me. This for the last few years, despite nothing bad happening, but I go back to the place to ask and make things weird, and drink again and so on. Or got high cholesterol, started diet, and start worrying a lot. Etc.
I think I can find answers in sorcery even if it's a Tonal matter, as you mentioned to move the assemblage point. I'm trying to learn how to do that. But when I've asked for help, in another forum they thought I was only looking for self pity and attention and got banned immediately. I promise I'm only looking for a different way than the usual "take medication or therapy" advice from people, or worse, from "warriors" to"just stop indulging", and pointing fingers to tell me about my self pity.
Now, here's the main issue that brings me to ask for help here: I'm not sure if this is the main trigger, but it certainly coincides, with the practice of inner silence. I try to force it as much as possible. It's miserable, certainly feels like "the nose bleeds" 😂. I take breaks to do other things, watch TV, read, etc. It's really not enjoyable but I still do it as a duty. Most of the time I can't even succeed for more than a couple of seconds of silence. But I do feel that I'm getting used to being less talkative and compulsive inside. I'm starting to see changes and my insomnia is gone. And other small reassurances. However the minute I take a break all hell breaks loose. And really in between practice, or actually while I'm attempting silence, very intense anxious thoughts intrude. Like never before. About what I did a month ago, or ten years ago, about what if this person or neighbor is upset when I didn't say hello, or my work contract is changing, what about the current political upheaval, etc, but is getting very personal and overwhelming. I keep practicing, and the anxiety keeps increasing. It's a battle. I often give up for a while and give in the fear and start calling friends and family asking them for their opinion, if I should be scared of a particular situation. They all think I need professional help. Last night I realized it was when I'm very dedicated to inner silence efforts this happens. So I started observing the mind instead of forcing it shut, and just letting myself talk inside with aggressive or confident thoughts. Changing the fearful ones for rational ones. Or also occupying the mind with issues pertaining to the present moment and action, like commenting on the movie or book, or the coffee I'm making, or the sunset and nose outside. The moment I try to be totally silent, I only get invaded by fearful existential thoughts of doubt, death, what if's, regrets for not having been disciplined for years, old age etc.
I'm experimenting with just practicing the Tensegrity, and the recapitulation. Especially the recap is doing a lot of good changes in my perception and attitude but I can only force myself to recapitulate for 30 minutes to 45 mins a day. I settled for that for now, as it's still helping a lot, even more than fighting the inner dialogue. The Tensegrity is also good, I do a couple long forms, but I don't see any specific results, I will keep on it as I trust in it.
So here we are; I'm not giving up on the fight against the mind, I'm taking a break and experimenting. One thing I noticed is that if I allow to think actively in my own terms, I become more rational, practical, and confident. I really didn't want to express all this here but I'm against a huge road block and I feel that you have very good insights and pointers. How can I resolve this issue? Why is trying inner silence making my life more difficult and even almost losing my mind, but not in a good way 😂
Thank you in advance for all the help. If you decide to ban me, I get it. I will keep practicing. But I hope you can point me somewhere I can work with. (Except the therapist who will feed me drugs LOL).
You need to get to the point that you daily get to see real magic, of the kind that puts the Buddha himself to shame, and then find out whether that's sufficient motivation, or a sufficient "goal" in your life, to cause you to keep moving the assemblage point until your "self" goes away daily.
Then there's always relief just 30 minutes away! No anxiety can stand up to the loss of the imaginary idea of a self in your mind.
But even when you can move your assemblage point that far in 1 minutes, you will have to struggle with the pull back to the world you were born into.
There's no "enlightenment" in sorcery.
That was made up for stealing money from unhappy people.
But why would you be afraid of inorganic beings?
Those are amazing "free" magic.
And once you can move your assemblage point to the "place of no pity", where self vanished, unfortunately so do the inorganic beings.
You "see through them", and all they are is a force, or a pinkish coloration in the air.
No more cosplay...
Fortunately, there's lots more entities in silent knowledge, and none of those are scary.
And there's also witches.
Which are in fact, scary.
Cholita seems to take pleasure in figuring out when I'm practicing, so she can do bizarre things outside my locked room.
All of which tend to be scary.
I was afraid of inorganic beings as a child when one would come to abuse me in a sleep paralysis state, I couldn't move and it would grab my sides giving me very painful electric shocks. And then in my twenties when I moved to the wilderness in another country just to practice recapitulation, Tensegrity and inner silence, that entity came out into my daily life, wouldn't even answer any questions or help, just constantly biting me with a very strong vibration like an engine. I left that place after a few months and had to make a living and find shelter, and couldn't practice and the second attention stuff stopped. Recently after twenty years when I resumed the practice, I'm not actually scared of that anymore, I only feel a lot of painful pressure on my head from that at times, and some nightmares but that's not my current issue. My anxiety seems to have increased a lot after practicing and trying to quit going to bars to drink. Everything is super scary. Even death, or fear of moving to the wrong city, great of attacks from a racist person, fear of losing the job... it's getting overwhelming especially when I force the silence, those are the only thoughts that come in and invade and feel that silence relentlessly, really interrupting my silence with images of concerns until I can't keep the pressure.
I mentioned my current new found interest in recapitulation as I found really interesting results. From only doing 40 mins per day, for instance last week I was recapping a very troubled time in my life 15 years ago, a romantic relationship that got me almost killed, with a person who was very conflicted. I felt all the turmoil and anxiety of those events, yet guess what? When I finished after 40 mins that last day (this person I took me 3 days 40 mins sessions) I came back to my senses in the present and I felt the space between those two perceptions; I really think I experienced a very tiny movement of the AP there but to me that was a huge deal. I feel such relief for a moment, from my constant daily worry. That's why I think even 40 mins recap per day does more than all day unsuccessful forcing my silence. I admit I can accept the fact that I could keep going and try harder, it's just the anxious mind gets really crazy and seems overwhelming.
About the Inorganics, I only see them in nightmares when I'm week, after drinking or losing lots of sexual energy. And I know I'm dreaming but I'm not in control, and mostly get into trying to have sexual relations with the entity that then turns into an insect and I can smell a foul stench. So I try to distance myself from them for now, I'm aware I might be the one causing the nature of that interaction. I'll save that for when I'm stronger.
But coming back to the inner silence, why my left gets so scary either about petty situations I overblow or an existential regret about my life, do I need to keep pushing the silence until that gets solved at some point? Or letting the mind alone to focus on daily activities might be better?
And really, thank you again.
Seems like there's some mild mental illness involved here. With a bit of paranoia (cross connections in the brain) dominating it.
Cholita has that too, although much more extreme.
She also blames the power lines when she gets a cold, or Chemtrails when she's in a bad mood.
On the other hand, she does amazing magic for me from time to time.
The kind we all wish we could do.
I appreciate your time; I want to close it to clarify my point that if I engage the mind by keeping it busy in daily activities, in immediate concerns like making coffee, it a work problem, or even the TV in watching etc, it keeps the worries at bay. I'm wondering if this could be a form of inner silence in itself, as when you occupy yourself in the present moment activity fully, as an artist would do. I don't know but I'm going to explore this a bit. You don't have to add to what you already say which was very insightful, but if you still have more to add I'll be using that too.
It's paranoid schizophrenia in my opinion, but that can just mean you're very talented, if you can overlook it and work hard to learn sorcery.
No one who has that, is likely to admit it. It takes an outside observer to point it out to them, around 100 times, before they start to see it themselves.
The good news is, Cholita can break the laws of physics on demand, right in front of me.
She just rarely does that.
So I can't figure out whether she ALWAYS can, or if it's some special situation.
Florinda taught her, and maybe insisted she never show off what she can do.
But I can't even find that out from her.
Hmm paranoid schizophrenia? I agree when you first mentioned a mild form of metal illness. But reading into paranoid schizophrenia I don't see the same extreme symptoms in myself. I do see excessive worry, the mind going over and over the same concerns. And PTSD from getting severely physically attacked 15 years ago. And I just worry trying to figure out if I'm in danger of any small disagreement, or it's just speculation. But I don't hear voices or thoughts of harming anyone. It's just constant worry that gets triggered easily but worldly situations that I often exaggerate. Not of something invisible. But what do I know, if might be that.
You have to want magic, and nothing else.
Once you want there, all the information you need is in this subreddit.
Paranoid schizophrenia comes in degrees.
Cholita is a 95% er.
A couple of people in the subreddit had mothers who were 50%.
Those barely get by in the world, but they can in fact go unnoticed.
If you're not having problems from it in your working situation, then maybe you're a 30% person.
Who always focuses on the problems they have, rather than the blessings.
Which is not necessarily a bad thing for learning sorcery.
People who believe their life is "perfect" have absolutely no chance to learn sorcery.
This man for instance, has 0 chance to learn real magic.
Perfect. Great information, really. I can accept this 👍