Part of the potential issue with the right way of walking is that we already have years of potentially bad habits associated with walking, like wearing earbuds, or chatting etc., burned into the muscle movement...and that has to be overwritten by intentional right way of walking practice, as the not-doing (what you know how to do) of walking.
It's markedly easier, but maybe not quite as accessible, to do something that's completely new to you and of the body and not mental or closed-eye, such as the use of silence stones.
Or a leather paperweight (or analogue) on the womb if you're a woman.
Because there's virtually zero chance someone just used to sit around with stuff stuck between their fingers out of boredom. Thus it's a clear avenue for intent to store into.
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u/bebiased
2 points2024-04-10 16:25
This is the right place to start
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u/danl999
19 points2024-04-10 15:42
First step, find out how long you can go without a single word popping into your mind.
Not even 1!
Count the seconds.
Tell us how long you can go, so we can diagnose if you understand what the internal dialogue is.
Oddly, we get people form time to time who can't even figure out what it is. And then they just vanish, usually never heard from again.
Keep in mind, "Zen Masters" or any run of the mill "Dali Lama" type, will claim they eliminated their internal dialogue.
They even tell followers that the fastest path to enlightenment is to do that!
Saying, it's just too hard for most so they use meditation.
Meditation is a substitute internal dialogue. Much easier, but produces crummy results.
Here's Shinzen Young saying that the fastest path to enlightenment is to eliminate the internal dialogue.
Which he hasn't actually accomplished, clearly. I had a run in with him, and he came here to attack. Or sent his daughter, or a groupie.
Such men are not honest, so you can't find out what actually occurred.
No one with real magic is angered on hearing there's better magic elsewhere!
They're overjoyed!!!
And in fact, "enlightened" people NEVER DID get rid of their internal dialogue!
They're simply deluded by what we call "green zone effects" on the J curve map.
They got slimed and declared themselves "masters".
Because if you really do get rid of the internal dialogue, the entire world just STOPS.
Dead in its tracks.
Can't happen otherwise.
And then infinity starts to make you offers, as videos in the air.
We call it "Silent Knowledge".
Into which you can swish, to go anywhere in time and space and live there for a while.
Shirt, boots, and all.
Eyes wide open and fully awake. And certainly it can't be done unless you are absolutely sober.
One of these days, meditation is likely to be commonly known to be a fraud.
Except, to keep their money flowing they'll surely all modify their system.
It'll be interesting to see how.
The real thing can't be taught for money, because hardly anyone will try it.
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u/Party_Lingonberry310
1 points2024-04-10 15:45
Ok but how exactly do i need to do and what mistakes should i avoid
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u/danl999
10 points2024-04-10 16:04
You're making one right now!
And it's the most common mistake we see in the subreddit.
But it'll take you time to understand that.
Just get to work!
This is a VERY long path.
There's no "endorsements" or certifications, or "teacher training".
No way to profit from it with other humans.
Though you can profit from it among real, fully visible supernatural beings who will stick around for the rest of your life if you allow them to.
The cool thing is that you can get magic in 3 days, if you are very serious about it.
Magic that kicks the Buddha's butt hands down!
It'll take 2 weeks after that, to beat every yogi who was ever written about.
And a month to beat all mystics, saints, and philosophers in the entire written history of mankind.
Which includes visiting heaven on demand, and God himself once in a while.
But the REAL thing will take close to a decade to reach, of daily practice.
That's where you have access to all of time and space, to go live in it yourself for a while.
But the problem is, no one puts in the practice time.
And even the little they put in, is done so poorly it doesn't lead to any results.
Make sure to learn some tensegrity, it's far too hard to remove the internal dialogue without it.
And don't make the #1 mistake.
Just laying in bed at night, trying to shut off your internal dialogue so that you can post about it the next day, not mentioning how little actual effort you made.
Never try to deceive this subreddit.
You'll lose the trust of the place.
Which is almost surely the only place you'll have a chance to learn real magic.
I'd like to say we even kick the butt of all Jedis!
Since they're based on us.
But I can't get objects to float around the way they do.
Cholita can. She's the 3rd private student of Carlos still left.
Jadey is the second.
But Cholita won't tell me why I can't.
She's punishing me for now. 2 days in a row. Hiding from sight.
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u/Party_Lingonberry310
1 points2024-04-10 16:07
Ok im very motivated. But what are the steps to shutting down the inner monolgue ?
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u/aLaStOr_MoOdY47
5 points2024-04-10 16:36
There are no steps. Don Juan said it too. You just stop it for as long as you can. See how long you can go. Dan already told you that in the first comment. Learn some tensegrity moves, and recapitulation while you're at it. Everything you need is on the subreddit sidebar. Did you try to read anything there?
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
9 points2024-04-10 17:09
From the Silent Knowledge (1996) publication:
Inner silence, in the understanding of the sorcerers of don Juan's lineage, is the matrix for a gigantic step of evolution; the sorcerers of ancient Mexico called this gigantic step of evolution silent knowledge. Silent knowledge is a state of human awareness where knowing is automatic and instantaneous. Knowledge in this state is not the product of cerebral cogitations or logical inductions and deductions, or of generalizations based on similarities and dissimilarities. In silent knowledge, there is nothing a priori, nothing that could constitute a body of knowledge. For silent knowledge, everything is imminently now. Complex pieces of information can be grasped without any preliminaries.
Don Juan believed that silent knowledge was insinuated to early man, but that early man was not really the possessor of silent knowledge. He said that such an insinuation was infinitely stronger than what man experiences nowadays, where the bulk of knowledge, is the product of rote learning. He believed that although we have lost the insinuation, the avenue that leads to silent knowledge will always be open to man, and that it stems from the matrix of inner silence.
The attainment of inner silence is the prerequisite for all of the things that we have delineated in this elucidation. Don Juan taught that inner silence must be gained by a consistent pressure of discipline. He said that it has to be accrued, or that it has to be stored, bit by bit, second by second. In other words, one has to force oneself to be silent, if it is only for a few seconds. Don Juan claimed that if one is persistent, persistence overcomes habit, and thus, one arrives at a threshold of accrued seconds or minutes, a threshold which varies from person to person. If, for instance, the threshold of inner silence is for any given individual, ten minutes, once this mark is reached, inner silence happens by itself, by it's own accord, so to speak...
...I had been seeing energy as it flows in the universe all my life, but I had not been conscious of it. To get energy as it flows in the universe was not the novelty. The novelty was the query that arose with such fury that it made me surface back into the world of everyday life. "What has been keeping me from realizing that I have seen energy as it flows in the universe all my life?" I asked myself.
Don Juan explained it to me, making a distinction between general awareness and being deliberately conscious of something. He said that our human condition is to have this deep awareness, but that all the instances of this deep awareness are not at the level of being deliberately conscious of them. He said that inner silence had bridged the gap, as was it's function, and had allowed me to become conscious of things I had only been aware of in a general sense.
And from the book The Fire From Within (1984):
I told him I was very conscious of the fact that in general I had stopped talking to myself, but did not know how I had done it. If asked to explain the procedure I would not know what to say.
"The explanation is simplicity itself," he said. "You willed it, and thus you set a new intent, a new command. Then your command became the Eagle's command.
"This is one of the most extraordinary things that the new seers found out: Our command can become the Eagle's command. The internal dialogue stops in the same way it begins; by an act of will. After all, we are forced to start talking to ourselves by those who teach us. As they teach us, they engage their will and we engage ours— both without knowing it. As we learn to talk to ourselves, we learn to handle will. We will ourselves to talk to ourselves. The way to stop talking to ourselves is to use exactly the same method; we must will it; we must intend it."
We were silent for a few minutes. I asked him to whom he was referring when he said that we had teachers who taught us to talk to ourselves.
"I was talking about what happens to human beings when they are infants," he replied, "a time when they are taught by everyone around them to repeat an endless dialogue about themselves. The dialogue becomes internalized, and that force alone keeps the assemblage point fixed....
"...The fact of the matter is that many children see," he went on. "Most of those who see are considered to be oddballs and every effort is made to correct them, to make them solidify the position of their assemblage points."
"But would it be possible to encourage children to keep their assemblage points more fluid?" I asked.
"Only if they live among the new seers," he said. "Otherwise they would get entrapped, as the old seers did, in the intricacies of the silent side of man. And, believe me, that's worse than being caught in the clutches of rationality."
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u/danl999
10 points2024-04-10 18:31
Our command becomes the "Eagle's" command, because our reality is merely a flow of sensations from the dark sea of emanations, caused by where we focus our awareness.
By default, we never stop focusing it on our self-pity dominated concerns, so we're always receiving the same stream.
Which also includes a horrible voice complaining away in our mind all day long.
So when it says, "your command becomes", it's not really as mysterious as you believe.
An analogy (a bad one):
If you lived in a simulator and your body was in a plastic dome like in "The Matrix",
And it turned out you were being monitored, then if all day long you kept saying, "Change program, change program, change program", then that could indeed happen.
But it would only seem "mysterious" to you, because you don't realize you're living in a nightmare world that isn't real.
We of course, GET TO SEE THIS WITH OUR OWN EYES!!!
So it's not a bizarre theory like "Santa Claus" has. Witchy person nicknamed him that, because he's still trying to steal money on Youtube.
He's the left over "Astral Travel" guy from Robert Monroe's fake magic scam.
Claims he knows the man who runs our simulation.
Naturally that's ludicrous, because that would imply, there's a reality above ours which is very much the same.
There's none.
Most of the other realities are entirely non-human, and some can't even be translate to be spoken about in this reality.
You get to see that NIGHTLY!
If you can manage to put in some work.
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u/ControlledFolly_Ovix
2 points2024-04-11 04:13
I have a question. A normal state of awareness involves being "zoned out" or going on autopilot. Does shutting down the internal dialogue then involve "taking the reigns" and maintaining a sense of control? Is that what "heightened awareness" is?
Then, once in silence, what do you "do"? The attention seems to drift towards some object, typically towards some mundane thing. But I find if I focus on something then it's easier. So if you keep busy then you can keep dialogue at bay easier. Is that what gazing is for, or why they were looking at the leaves while moving them with their left hand? Likewise in the darkroom you focus on the contents of darkness.
Something supposed to happen at that point? The hooking of second attention? And then transition into some alternate reality? Do I have the roadmap roughly right? Thanks.
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u/danl999
3 points2024-04-11 12:36
>Does shutting down the internal dialogue then involve "taking the reigns" and maintaining a sense of control?
No. That's an Asian fake magic delusion designed to turn followers into obedient zombies. An offshoot of their oppressive seniority based social system, and tendency to keep information to themselves even when it causes big problems.
(I have an office in Taipei).
See today's post for pictures of what Silent Knowledge is. ALL of those are silent knowledge. Even your ordinary reality is the same flow from the dark sea. It's just "stuck".
Silent knowledge is when you stop sending your awareness into specific ranges of emanations only, so that you can see what comes to you from the dark sea, just because it's "needed" right now. Letting "infinity" decide what you need most next.
An analogy?
What your suggesting is to use your slave personal assistant better, ordering them around to do precisely what you want. Not being random or careless with the use of your employee. Occupying all of their time.
But Silent Knowledge is when you stop ordering your assistant around because you come to realize, they know what they're doing and can anticipate your needs better than you can.
So you just see what they do next, marveling at how good they are at their job.
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u/Concious-surfer
1 points2024-04-15 21:42
What harm do you think Alan Watts did? He studied different philosophies and communicated the ideas in them, but never claimed to be a great teacher as far as i know. I've read some of his work but am not a complete expert on him..
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
1 points2024-04-15 21:59
Anything that loops you further into philosophizing and theory rather than direct experience is poison to your chances to "leap" beyond this view of reality in a pragmatic and directly perceivable way.
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u/danl999
3 points2024-04-15 22:36
Daoism is a total evil scam which plagues Chinese countries.
It's not only not true, it's absurd.
Watts was too stupid to realize what most in Chinese countries realize.
It's just not true.
Lao Tzu never existed! He was made up, the same as the Chinese made up the version of "The Buddha" that people worship now.
Watts was a very bad men who sent a lot of westerners down a dead end road in order to steal attention for himself.
Our teacher Carlos Castaneda went to visit anyone like that, hoping to find actual knowledge.
Alan Watts wanted to have sex with him.
He's the prototype of a charlatan who hypes up very ugly stuff.
Unless you count Oprah Winfrey, who gave us several mega con artists like Chopra and Eckhart.
She did ok on Justin Bieber though...
It's hard not to like some of his recent videos.
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u/[deleted]
1 points2024-04-12 10:55deleted
[removed]
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u/AutoModerator
1 points2024-04-12 10:55
Your comment has been automatically removed because your account does not meet our account-age requirement of 10 days.
Mind if I ask - are you saying Astral Projection isn't real and/or is fake or a scam? And is the person you are referring to Thomas Campbell?
I'm just curious as those theories are some of the ones I've looked into in trying to understand the nature of reality, so I'm interested in perspectives on that.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
1 points2024-04-15 21:57
It's a critical misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what's going on:
Yes, it's a total scam which capitalizes on the fact that angry men will make up experiences in a group setting, to compete for attention. So any technique which causes you to doze off and have a little dream, and which comes with delusional explanations attention seekers would believe give them super powers, will be successful in a chat group.
People will escalate the pretending until it's next to impossible to refute it.
But "Astral Travel" is ludicrous nonsense.
If I were to posto a picture of what you can do with our sorcery in the Astral Travel group, they'd delete it as fast as they saw it, and ban me.
"For the good of all".
If you want to know the truth about magic, or at least the only variety left on earth as far as we've been able to find, learn darkroom, learn to dream fully awake (DAILY), and to gaze anywhere in time and space using REAL remote viewing, instead of that scribble on paper make believe.
And then swish right into the videos in the air. Eyes wide open and fully sober. We get to go back in time thousands of years to witness the past, and the sorcerers of that period.
While you're learning that in here, FOR FREE, watch the bad men show up constantly to this subreddit, pretending to have knowledge they don't. Or trying to take this place down because it angers and threatens them.
Look at the posts in here which have clear instructions, and which have dozens doing such amazing things that no Yogi or Buddhist "master" has even claimed to be able to do that on demand.
Not even by accident in most cases.
Robert Monroe and his evil partner (AKA santa claus in here) are just con artists.
And one of them is still trying to steal from people to this day, helped by Monroe's daughter.
Or, if it makes you happy you can keep pretending for the rest of your life.
Some of our own started out in the Astral Travel sewer.
But when you get tired of empty promises, come try putting in some actual work, which enlightened Buddhist masters even admit is the fastest path to enlightenment.
They just claim it's too difficult for people.
Which is odd, because no "enlightened" master ever actually learned to shut off their internal dialogue.
Or they wouldn't be so boring.
If you shut it off, the world simply stops.
And you're offered other worlds to live in.
It can't happen otherwise!
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u/[deleted]
1 points2024-04-11 01:25deleted
[removed]
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u/More_Wind
-3 points2024-04-10 23:18
Congratulations on your "magic" making you so humble and likable.
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u/aLaStOr_MoOdY47
1 points2024-04-11 06:19
What are you yapping about lol.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
1 points2024-04-11 11:09
There are no saints in sorcery.
Being Mr. Rogers is not the goal.
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u/danl999
1 points2024-04-11 12:28
So go find a "saint" to learn from, and leave us alone!
Do you go to someone's house, they give you peanut butter cookies, but you spit them out in disgust saying you only like Chocolate chip?
Or are you just a bad guy lurker? Maybe even a Tata Kachora zombie?
Let's look at your history to see if you're actually even a real person, or just an ID created to sell to bad men who like to do harm on reddit!
It's not conclusive, but it's obvious you're a bit of a bastard.
No one ever thanks the people who do the real work: us complainers in the subreddit.
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u/OsBP_3
1 points2025-10-19 15:40
Hola. Sigo instruyéndome de post antiguos, tienen muchísima mas enseñanzas que las cosas que hablan y preguntan en la actualidad. He realizado el ejercicio que indicas aquí, calcular promedio normal de tiempo sin forzar el silencio en un día normal: 41-46 segundos; promedio forzando el silencio interno: 01 minuto con 40 segundos y 77 milésimas de segundos... ambas pruebas promediadas realizadas sin hacer Tensegridad en el cuarto oscuro, ejercicio pendiente de realizar también. Sigo luchando contra el dialogo interno cada día, y más en la noche al realizar Tensegridad.
Nota: - No quiero, ni busco respuestas. Es solo un comentario, ya que no llego aun ni siquiera a los 2 minutos, así que nada que tomar en serio.
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u/tabdrops
7 points2024-04-10 17:13
To figure out what the internal dialogue is, repeat the last thought in mind over and over again. Intentionally. Be concentrated as long as possible. To train this concentration allows to stop the internal dialogue. It provides a feeling about what the internal dialogue is. It allows to discern the mental states. It's a matter of practice. Then take that concentration to stop the internal dialogue as long as possible.
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u/Content_Donut9081
2 points2024-04-10 17:36
You just have to do it through concentration. But it needs to be very precise and it's better to drop your agenda with regards to what's supposed to happen when you become silent.
You have a super computer in your head that's constantly running, creating problems, concerns and reasoning just to make your limbic system happy.
Also different things may happen depending on how you are doing physically/mentally/emotionally/spiritually. Just be willing to drop it all.
Also make friends with fatigue and possible fainting I would say! But chances are that those are interpreted again through your internal dialogue. So drop that too.
It's no easy. (although I would argue that we secretly make our lives "more difficult" just to get a certain sense of achievement once we've overcome ... that internal dialogue is really smart)
I like to do the chair method. It's described in the wiki.
This stuff is probably the only thing that's real. Everything else is just endless suffering and mental masturbation. Or maybe you're lucky and find your soulmate. But what if she finds a better one? Here we go... there is no happiness out there.
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u/Altruistic-Help-2010
6 points2024-04-10 19:01
First, in life and sorcery, there is no "Doing it Wrong." Mistakes teach us. There really only is wasting time: yours or other people's.
I posted this recently in Chat, but I think I posted it too late on the thread. I will post it again:
I'm not a fan of "tricks" to help with inner silence, but this actually came from advice from an IOB that pointed out to me that your entire body is an instrument of perception, and it incorporates some of the playfulness of childhood that is also helpful in the darkroom:
There was a game we played as children where we lightly traced a line across the inside of the crook of the elbow where it bends on another person and then we would lightly trace our finger up from the tip of the middle finger of that person, until you cross that same line in the crook inside of the elbow. The other person is not watching.
They must tell you to stop when you cross the original line you traced. Funny often, the feeler will say 'stop' far off from the actual crook in their elbow.
It must be some perception anomaly that we don't feel it accurately, but that is besides the point in the Darkroom (I am just describing the original game).
I found in the Darkroom that by touching the surface of the skin barely noticeably on my arms, lips, cheeks and legs lightly (even through clothes) by brushing my fingertips or the tips of my silent stones, I really could "perceive" with more than my eyes. It feels like the body awakens in the dark, and the surface of the skin begins to sense things.
I could begin to see shapes forming in front of my eyes that would turn into purple blobs moving away from me or a purple mass swirling around with blacker darkness. At this point, I would then do tensegrity passes or gaze. You have time, so experiment.
I had such trouble telling if my eyes were open or not in the dark that I actually poked myself in the eyeball a few times in the beginning to see if i had closed them. I was really not using my real eyes to see this anymore, and the difference was so subtle but noticeable.
For some reason, it distracts my mind enough to stop the Internal Dialogue, but without the expectation of "Be Here Now," which doesn't give me any idea what i should be 'feeling'.
For me, it helped me learn exactly what that first movement of the AP should feel like. Once you get that, it becomes easier to accumulate longer periods of Silence.
But be careful when you do see something magical... if you react to it, you will pull your AP right back up to the Blue Line with an enthusiastic "Wow! Look at THAT!" You just started the Interal Dialogue again and need to start over.
Not a lot of people talk about this, but I have found that there are different focal lengths in the darkness, like layers, that will let you see different things.
The purple puffs appear closer to you than the length of your room, so you might change your focal length, even to the point of relaxing your eyes until they cross.
But once you start seeing stuff, not much of this advice will help. And it may not help you at all. It is so individual that all we can do is tell you once you have done it whether you are on the right path.
It's almost like mastering a physical movement, like a cartwheel, because half the battle is convincing your mind that your body can actually do it. But once you know what it feels like to do it successfully, all of the mental becomes automatic. Asking someone else how to cartwheel is useless.
I hope that helps.
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u/pinkerton904
3 points2024-04-10 23:09
I've made some progress but have a long ways to go. What's helping me so far:
1) Tensegrity- The Series series for Unbending Intent. Memorize this set and do it repeatedly until your muscle memory knows it.
2) Listen to the world around you as an alternative to talking in your head...even thf humming of a refrigerator etc...
3) Stop feeling sorry for myself. Big source of internal dialogue. Playing through what I should have said in a past situation and things similar to this.
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u/Dramatic_Shock5002
1 points2024-04-11 02:48
The internal dialogue is definitely an interesting thing. If we’re trying so hard to get rid of it, why is it there in the first place? Do newborns have internal dialogue? If they do not, why do they develop it when they grow older? Is the internal dialogue just words being repeated internally? If so, do people that cannot hear, do they have internal dialogue? If they do, what does their internal dialogue consist of? More interestingly, can a deaf person hear in their dreams, and similarly, can a blind person see in theirs? Does the internal dialogue persist in the dream state, or does dreaming affect this dialogue?
The internal dialogue of an extremely happy person must be vastly different than the internal dialogue of an extremely saddened individual. Does the internal dialogue create and reinforce these vastly different experiences and is it possible to use the internal dialogue to help in shifting one’s feelings and moods? In either case, the internal dialogue seems to be in the way of many things. How can one try to understand the world around them if they are constantly and consistently repeating to themselves the world is this way or the world is that way. What exactly happens when one starts to chip away at this dialogue and manages to stop it?
The question is, how does one stop it? Not entirely sure, there is no one way fits all solution to the internal dialogue problem, but there are many ways that you can attempt to stop the chatter. It’s important to recognize that the internal dialogue is tied to one’s attention, to one’s focus. The mind has a tendency of drifting, if you can start to recognize its drift, you can try to put forth will in stopping the dialogue.
For example, try going to bed and putting on some music, and just attempt to listen to the song that you’re listening to. Sometimes, your mind will drift and your focus will go from listening to the song, to focusing on your internal dialogue, what you did during the day, or whatever else you may be thinking of. You may be so engaged in your internal dialogue that you might have forgotten about the song all together, and it won’t be until the song stops, that you refocus and recognize, ohh crap, I was supposed to be focusing on the song. When the next songs starts to play, you can try to listen to the song in its entirety and try to fight this mind drift. It is this practice of focus and of will, that you can apply to help in eliminating one’s internal dialogue.
Wish you luck, I’m trying my best to stop mine.
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u/Gilbermeister
1 points2024-04-11 07:29
Lose interest in it. There is nothing to do, it is a not-doing.
How do you stop a hot pot from burning your hands? Don't grab it.
In a manner of speaking, the more you practice this, the more inner silence you cultivate. We are tirelessly told in the world to get more and more involved with the internal dialogue. To become someone, to achieve success. To judge your stance. So we "separate" from existence and dwell on the mind's realm of endless commentary. When the results of this approach become unbearable, you get a chance to have a chance.
Internal dialogue cannot stop, the nature of the mind is to flow ceaselessly. What stops is your identification with it.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
3 points2024-04-11 11:27
Internal dialogue cannot stop.
Should have added (permanently).
Only when the human form is finally lost is it gone for good.
But that is the result of some external force, that comes into play after years of tremendous and sustained effort.
nature of the mind is to flow ceaselessly
Our true mind, yes.
Remember, the foreign installation, when seen has a side to side oscillatory quality...and that isn't our in our true nature.
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u/Poco_Curante
1 points2024-04-11 11:47
What kind of advice is this? If you have never been able to stop your Internal Dialogue yourself, why are you commenting at all? This is most unhelpful. Do you think we are here just talking to hear ourselves?
This is very real. It has specific steps. It is a technology you can prove is true by following what others have done before on the J curve map. It is idiot proof, as long as people here are honest about their skillset.
To tell someone that "you can't stop the Internal Dialogue" when Silence is the entire basis of every success done here is asinine. Internal Dialogue is NOT the "nature of the mind!" It is not natural!Please don't talk when you don't know.
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u/Over_Ninja1814
1 points2024-04-11 19:38
Shouldn't it become effortless? The effort itself is what needs gone...it's a way of being..not of doing..
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u/[deleted]
1 points2024-04-12 10:27deleted
[removed]
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u/AutoModerator
1 points2024-04-12 10:27
Your comment has been automatically removed because your account does not meet our account-age requirement of 10 days.
What I do is to calm down after some tensegrity exercises, sit, and focus on the area of the forehead between the eyebrows. More precisely, I breathe through my forehead and with my breathing I try to occupy the space which is occupied by thoughts.
The sensation in that area of the forehead happens as a pressure, and then I know that I have less thoughts. When thoughts appear, I inhale again through my forehead and brush them away, and so on.
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u/PrizeWishbone9754
1 points2024-05-07 01:13
I found a technique by myself when I was at the bottom of my life. I was so pissed at myself that I suddenly understood - "what if this voice that keeps swinging from one extreme to another is the problem, I am not my mind therefore I am not this voice".
So I visualized (I am the complete opposite of someone who has aphantasia, so when my voice isnt controlled, my mind-eye amplifies the problem due to the sheer potency of it) a clear orb leaving my head and stopping a meter away from me. Then I put through intent that voice into the orb. I separated my viewpoint from the voice and then I desintegrated the orb with all my will. And then poof. For the first time since I was a child. Silence. Total silence. I was awake again. And this is before I found about Don Juan etc. and found its not just me.
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Part of the potential issue with the right way of walking is that we already have years of potentially bad habits associated with walking, like wearing earbuds, or chatting etc., burned into the muscle movement...and that has to be overwritten by intentional right way of walking practice, as the not-doing (what you know how to do) of walking.
It's markedly easier, but maybe not quite as accessible, to do something that's completely new to you and of the body and not mental or closed-eye, such as the use of silence stones.
Or a leather paperweight (or analogue) on the womb if you're a woman.
Because there's virtually zero chance someone just used to sit around with stuff stuck between their fingers out of boredom. Thus it's a clear avenue for intent to store into.
This is the right place to start
First step, find out how long you can go without a single word popping into your mind.
Not even 1!
Count the seconds.
Tell us how long you can go, so we can diagnose if you understand what the internal dialogue is.
Oddly, we get people form time to time who can't even figure out what it is. And then they just vanish, usually never heard from again.
Keep in mind, "Zen Masters" or any run of the mill "Dali Lama" type, will claim they eliminated their internal dialogue.
They even tell followers that the fastest path to enlightenment is to do that!
Saying, it's just too hard for most so they use meditation.
Meditation is a substitute internal dialogue. Much easier, but produces crummy results.
Here's Shinzen Young saying that the fastest path to enlightenment is to eliminate the internal dialogue.
Which he hasn't actually accomplished, clearly. I had a run in with him, and he came here to attack. Or sent his daughter, or a groupie.
Such men are not honest, so you can't find out what actually occurred.
No one with real magic is angered on hearing there's better magic elsewhere!
They're overjoyed!!!
And in fact, "enlightened" people NEVER DID get rid of their internal dialogue!
They're simply deluded by what we call "green zone effects" on the J curve map.
They got slimed and declared themselves "masters".
Because if you really do get rid of the internal dialogue, the entire world just STOPS.
Dead in its tracks.
Can't happen otherwise.
And then infinity starts to make you offers, as videos in the air.
We call it "Silent Knowledge".
Into which you can swish, to go anywhere in time and space and live there for a while.
Shirt, boots, and all.
Eyes wide open and fully awake. And certainly it can't be done unless you are absolutely sober.
One of these days, meditation is likely to be commonly known to be a fraud.
Except, to keep their money flowing they'll surely all modify their system.
It'll be interesting to see how.
The real thing can't be taught for money, because hardly anyone will try it.
Ok but how exactly do i need to do and what mistakes should i avoid
You're making one right now!
And it's the most common mistake we see in the subreddit.
But it'll take you time to understand that.
Just get to work!
This is a VERY long path.
There's no "endorsements" or certifications, or "teacher training".
No way to profit from it with other humans.
Though you can profit from it among real, fully visible supernatural beings who will stick around for the rest of your life if you allow them to.
The cool thing is that you can get magic in 3 days, if you are very serious about it.
Magic that kicks the Buddha's butt hands down!
It'll take 2 weeks after that, to beat every yogi who was ever written about.
And a month to beat all mystics, saints, and philosophers in the entire written history of mankind.
Which includes visiting heaven on demand, and God himself once in a while.
But the REAL thing will take close to a decade to reach, of daily practice.
That's where you have access to all of time and space, to go live in it yourself for a while.
But the problem is, no one puts in the practice time.
And even the little they put in, is done so poorly it doesn't lead to any results.
Make sure to learn some tensegrity, it's far too hard to remove the internal dialogue without it.
And don't make the #1 mistake.
Just laying in bed at night, trying to shut off your internal dialogue so that you can post about it the next day, not mentioning how little actual effort you made.
Never try to deceive this subreddit.
You'll lose the trust of the place.
Which is almost surely the only place you'll have a chance to learn real magic.
I'd like to say we even kick the butt of all Jedis!
Since they're based on us.
But I can't get objects to float around the way they do.
Cholita can. She's the 3rd private student of Carlos still left.
Jadey is the second.
But Cholita won't tell me why I can't.
She's punishing me for now. 2 days in a row. Hiding from sight.
Ok im very motivated. But what are the steps to shutting down the inner monolgue ?
There are no steps. Don Juan said it too. You just stop it for as long as you can. See how long you can go. Dan already told you that in the first comment. Learn some tensegrity moves, and recapitulation while you're at it. Everything you need is on the subreddit sidebar. Did you try to read anything there?
From the Silent Knowledge (1996) publication:
Inner silence, in the understanding of the sorcerers of don Juan's lineage, is the matrix for a gigantic step of evolution; the sorcerers of ancient Mexico called this gigantic step of evolution silent knowledge. Silent knowledge is a state of human awareness where knowing is automatic and instantaneous. Knowledge in this state is not the product of cerebral cogitations or logical inductions and deductions, or of generalizations based on similarities and dissimilarities. In silent knowledge, there is nothing a priori, nothing that could constitute a body of knowledge. For silent knowledge, everything is imminently now. Complex pieces of information can be grasped without any preliminaries.
Don Juan believed that silent knowledge was insinuated to early man, but that early man was not really the possessor of silent knowledge. He said that such an insinuation was infinitely stronger than what man experiences nowadays, where the bulk of knowledge, is the product of rote learning. He believed that although we have lost the insinuation, the avenue that leads to silent knowledge will always be open to man, and that it stems from the matrix of inner silence.
The attainment of inner silence is the prerequisite for all of the things that we have delineated in this elucidation. Don Juan taught that inner silence must be gained by a consistent pressure of discipline. He said that it has to be accrued, or that it has to be stored, bit by bit, second by second. In other words, one has to force oneself to be silent, if it is only for a few seconds. Don Juan claimed that if one is persistent, persistence overcomes habit, and thus, one arrives at a threshold of accrued seconds or minutes, a threshold which varies from person to person. If, for instance, the threshold of inner silence is for any given individual, ten minutes, once this mark is reached, inner silence happens by itself, by it's own accord, so to speak...
...I had been seeing energy as it flows in the universe all my life, but I had not been conscious of it. To get energy as it flows in the universe was not the novelty. The novelty was the query that arose with such fury that it made me surface back into the world of everyday life. "What has been keeping me from realizing that I have seen energy as it flows in the universe all my life?" I asked myself.
Don Juan explained it to me, making a distinction between general awareness and being deliberately conscious of something. He said that our human condition is to have this deep awareness, but that all the instances of this deep awareness are not at the level of being deliberately conscious of them. He said that inner silence had bridged the gap, as was it's function, and had allowed me to become conscious of things I had only been aware of in a general sense.
And from the book The Fire From Within (1984):
I told him I was very conscious of the fact that in general I had stopped talking to myself, but did not know how I had done it. If asked to explain the procedure I would not know what to say.
"The explanation is simplicity itself," he said. "You willed it, and thus you set a new intent, a new command. Then your command became the Eagle's command.
"This is one of the most extraordinary things that the new seers found out: Our command can become the Eagle's command. The internal dialogue stops in the same way it begins; by an act of will. After all, we are forced to start talking to ourselves by those who teach us. As they teach us, they engage their will and we engage ours— both without knowing it. As we learn to talk to ourselves, we learn to handle will. We will ourselves to talk to ourselves. The way to stop talking to ourselves is to use exactly the same method; we must will it; we must intend it."
We were silent for a few minutes. I asked him to whom he was referring when he said that we had teachers who taught us to talk to ourselves.
"I was talking about what happens to human beings when they are infants," he replied, "a time when they are taught by everyone around them to repeat an endless dialogue about themselves. The dialogue becomes internalized, and that force alone keeps the assemblage point fixed....
"...The fact of the matter is that many children see," he went on. "Most of those who see are considered to be oddballs and every effort is made to correct them, to make them solidify the position of their assemblage points."
"But would it be possible to encourage children to keep their assemblage points more fluid?" I asked.
"Only if they live among the new seers," he said. "Otherwise they would get entrapped, as the old seers did, in the intricacies of the silent side of man. And, believe me, that's worse than being caught in the clutches of rationality."
Our command becomes the "Eagle's" command, because our reality is merely a flow of sensations from the dark sea of emanations, caused by where we focus our awareness.
By default, we never stop focusing it on our self-pity dominated concerns, so we're always receiving the same stream.
Which also includes a horrible voice complaining away in our mind all day long.
So when it says, "your command becomes", it's not really as mysterious as you believe.
An analogy (a bad one):
If you lived in a simulator and your body was in a plastic dome like in "The Matrix",
And it turned out you were being monitored, then if all day long you kept saying, "Change program, change program, change program", then that could indeed happen.
But it would only seem "mysterious" to you, because you don't realize you're living in a nightmare world that isn't real.
We of course, GET TO SEE THIS WITH OUR OWN EYES!!!
So it's not a bizarre theory like "Santa Claus" has. Witchy person nicknamed him that, because he's still trying to steal money on Youtube.
He's the left over "Astral Travel" guy from Robert Monroe's fake magic scam.
Claims he knows the man who runs our simulation.
Naturally that's ludicrous, because that would imply, there's a reality above ours which is very much the same.
There's none.
Most of the other realities are entirely non-human, and some can't even be translate to be spoken about in this reality.
You get to see that NIGHTLY!
If you can manage to put in some work.
I have a question. A normal state of awareness involves being "zoned out" or going on autopilot. Does shutting down the internal dialogue then involve "taking the reigns" and maintaining a sense of control? Is that what "heightened awareness" is?
Then, once in silence, what do you "do"? The attention seems to drift towards some object, typically towards some mundane thing. But I find if I focus on something then it's easier. So if you keep busy then you can keep dialogue at bay easier. Is that what gazing is for, or why they were looking at the leaves while moving them with their left hand? Likewise in the darkroom you focus on the contents of darkness.
Something supposed to happen at that point? The hooking of second attention? And then transition into some alternate reality? Do I have the roadmap roughly right? Thanks.
>Does shutting down the internal dialogue then involve "taking the reigns" and maintaining a sense of control?
No. That's an Asian fake magic delusion designed to turn followers into obedient zombies. An offshoot of their oppressive seniority based social system, and tendency to keep information to themselves even when it causes big problems.
(I have an office in Taipei).
See today's post for pictures of what Silent Knowledge is. ALL of those are silent knowledge. Even your ordinary reality is the same flow from the dark sea. It's just "stuck".
Silent knowledge is when you stop sending your awareness into specific ranges of emanations only, so that you can see what comes to you from the dark sea, just because it's "needed" right now. Letting "infinity" decide what you need most next.
An analogy?
What your suggesting is to use your slave personal assistant better, ordering them around to do precisely what you want. Not being random or careless with the use of your employee. Occupying all of their time.
But Silent Knowledge is when you stop ordering your assistant around because you come to realize, they know what they're doing and can anticipate your needs better than you can.
So you just see what they do next, marveling at how good they are at their job.
What harm do you think Alan Watts did? He studied different philosophies and communicated the ideas in them, but never claimed to be a great teacher as far as i know. I've read some of his work but am not a complete expert on him..
Anything that loops you further into philosophizing and theory rather than direct experience is poison to your chances to "leap" beyond this view of reality in a pragmatic and directly perceivable way.
Daoism is a total evil scam which plagues Chinese countries.
It's not only not true, it's absurd.
Watts was too stupid to realize what most in Chinese countries realize.
It's just not true.
Lao Tzu never existed! He was made up, the same as the Chinese made up the version of "The Buddha" that people worship now.
Watts was a very bad men who sent a lot of westerners down a dead end road in order to steal attention for himself.
Our teacher Carlos Castaneda went to visit anyone like that, hoping to find actual knowledge.
Alan Watts wanted to have sex with him.
He's the prototype of a charlatan who hypes up very ugly stuff.
Unless you count Oprah Winfrey, who gave us several mega con artists like Chopra and Eckhart.
She did ok on Justin Bieber though...
It's hard not to like some of his recent videos.
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Mind if I ask - are you saying Astral Projection isn't real and/or is fake or a scam? And is the person you are referring to Thomas Campbell?
I'm just curious as those theories are some of the ones I've looked into in trying to understand the nature of reality, so I'm interested in perspectives on that.
It's a critical misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what's going on:
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/wiki/terminology/astral_projection/
Yes, it's a total scam which capitalizes on the fact that angry men will make up experiences in a group setting, to compete for attention. So any technique which causes you to doze off and have a little dream, and which comes with delusional explanations attention seekers would believe give them super powers, will be successful in a chat group.
People will escalate the pretending until it's next to impossible to refute it.
But "Astral Travel" is ludicrous nonsense.
If I were to posto a picture of what you can do with our sorcery in the Astral Travel group, they'd delete it as fast as they saw it, and ban me.
"For the good of all".
If you want to know the truth about magic, or at least the only variety left on earth as far as we've been able to find, learn darkroom, learn to dream fully awake (DAILY), and to gaze anywhere in time and space using REAL remote viewing, instead of that scribble on paper make believe.
And then swish right into the videos in the air. Eyes wide open and fully sober. We get to go back in time thousands of years to witness the past, and the sorcerers of that period.
While you're learning that in here, FOR FREE, watch the bad men show up constantly to this subreddit, pretending to have knowledge they don't. Or trying to take this place down because it angers and threatens them.
Look at the posts in here which have clear instructions, and which have dozens doing such amazing things that no Yogi or Buddhist "master" has even claimed to be able to do that on demand.
Not even by accident in most cases.
Robert Monroe and his evil partner (AKA santa claus in here) are just con artists.
And one of them is still trying to steal from people to this day, helped by Monroe's daughter.
Or, if it makes you happy you can keep pretending for the rest of your life.
Some of our own started out in the Astral Travel sewer.
But when you get tired of empty promises, come try putting in some actual work, which enlightened Buddhist masters even admit is the fastest path to enlightenment.
They just claim it's too difficult for people.
Which is odd, because no "enlightened" master ever actually learned to shut off their internal dialogue.
Or they wouldn't be so boring.
If you shut it off, the world simply stops.
And you're offered other worlds to live in.
It can't happen otherwise!
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Congratulations on your "magic" making you so humble and likable.
What are you yapping about lol.
There are no saints in sorcery.
Being Mr. Rogers is not the goal.
So go find a "saint" to learn from, and leave us alone!
Do you go to someone's house, they give you peanut butter cookies, but you spit them out in disgust saying you only like Chocolate chip?
Or are you just a bad guy lurker? Maybe even a Tata Kachora zombie?
Let's look at your history to see if you're actually even a real person, or just an ID created to sell to bad men who like to do harm on reddit!
It's not conclusive, but it's obvious you're a bit of a bastard.
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ARIES SEASON
More_Wind replied to ives09 18 days ago
As a Pisces, I would like to apologize for Pisces season existing. Even we don't like it.
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Live Discussion - March 9, 2024 (Josh Brolin/Ariana Grande)
More_Wind commented 1 mo. ago
No one ever thanks the people who do the real work: us complainers in the subreddit.
Hola. Sigo instruyéndome de post antiguos, tienen muchísima mas enseñanzas que las cosas que hablan y preguntan en la actualidad. He realizado el ejercicio que indicas aquí, calcular promedio normal de tiempo sin forzar el silencio en un día normal: 41-46 segundos; promedio forzando el silencio interno: 01 minuto con 40 segundos y 77 milésimas de segundos... ambas pruebas promediadas realizadas sin hacer Tensegridad en el cuarto oscuro, ejercicio pendiente de realizar también. Sigo luchando contra el dialogo interno cada día, y más en la noche al realizar Tensegridad.
Nota: - No quiero, ni busco respuestas. Es solo un comentario, ya que no llego aun ni siquiera a los 2 minutos, así que nada que tomar en serio.
To figure out what the internal dialogue is, repeat the last thought in mind over and over again. Intentionally. Be concentrated as long as possible. To train this concentration allows to stop the internal dialogue. It provides a feeling about what the internal dialogue is. It allows to discern the mental states. It's a matter of practice. Then take that concentration to stop the internal dialogue as long as possible.
You just have to do it through concentration. But it needs to be very precise and it's better to drop your agenda with regards to what's supposed to happen when you become silent.
You have a super computer in your head that's constantly running, creating problems, concerns and reasoning just to make your limbic system happy.
Also different things may happen depending on how you are doing physically/mentally/emotionally/spiritually. Just be willing to drop it all.
Also make friends with fatigue and possible fainting I would say! But chances are that those are interpreted again through your internal dialogue. So drop that too.
It's no easy. (although I would argue that we secretly make our lives "more difficult" just to get a certain sense of achievement once we've overcome ... that internal dialogue is really smart)
I like to do the chair method. It's described in the wiki.
This stuff is probably the only thing that's real. Everything else is just endless suffering and mental masturbation. Or maybe you're lucky and find your soulmate. But what if she finds a better one? Here we go... there is no happiness out there.
First, in life and sorcery, there is no "Doing it Wrong." Mistakes teach us. There really only is wasting time: yours or other people's.
I posted this recently in Chat, but I think I posted it too late on the thread. I will post it again:
I'm not a fan of "tricks" to help with inner silence, but this actually came from advice from an IOB that pointed out to me that your entire body is an instrument of perception, and it incorporates some of the playfulness of childhood that is also helpful in the darkroom:
There was a game we played as children where we lightly traced a line across the inside of the crook of the elbow where it bends on another person and then we would lightly trace our finger up from the tip of the middle finger of that person, until you cross that same line in the crook inside of the elbow. The other person is not watching.
They must tell you to stop when you cross the original line you traced. Funny often, the feeler will say 'stop' far off from the actual crook in their elbow.
It must be some perception anomaly that we don't feel it accurately, but that is besides the point in the Darkroom (I am just describing the original game).
I found in the Darkroom that by touching the surface of the skin barely noticeably on my arms, lips, cheeks and legs lightly (even through clothes) by brushing my fingertips or the tips of my silent stones, I really could "perceive" with more than my eyes. It feels like the body awakens in the dark, and the surface of the skin begins to sense things.
I could begin to see shapes forming in front of my eyes that would turn into purple blobs moving away from me or a purple mass swirling around with blacker darkness. At this point, I would then do tensegrity passes or gaze. You have time, so experiment.
I had such trouble telling if my eyes were open or not in the dark that I actually poked myself in the eyeball a few times in the beginning to see if i had closed them. I was really not using my real eyes to see this anymore, and the difference was so subtle but noticeable.
For some reason, it distracts my mind enough to stop the Internal Dialogue, but without the expectation of "Be Here Now," which doesn't give me any idea what i should be 'feeling'.
For me, it helped me learn exactly what that first movement of the AP should feel like. Once you get that, it becomes easier to accumulate longer periods of Silence.
But be careful when you do see something magical... if you react to it, you will pull your AP right back up to the Blue Line with an enthusiastic "Wow! Look at THAT!" You just started the Interal Dialogue again and need to start over.
Not a lot of people talk about this, but I have found that there are different focal lengths in the darkness, like layers, that will let you see different things.
The purple puffs appear closer to you than the length of your room, so you might change your focal length, even to the point of relaxing your eyes until they cross.
But once you start seeing stuff, not much of this advice will help. And it may not help you at all. It is so individual that all we can do is tell you once you have done it whether you are on the right path.
It's almost like mastering a physical movement, like a cartwheel, because half the battle is convincing your mind that your body can actually do it. But once you know what it feels like to do it successfully, all of the mental becomes automatic. Asking someone else how to cartwheel is useless.
I hope that helps.
I've made some progress but have a long ways to go. What's helping me so far:
1) Tensegrity- The Series series for Unbending Intent. Memorize this set and do it repeatedly until your muscle memory knows it.
2) Listen to the world around you as an alternative to talking in your head...even thf humming of a refrigerator etc...
3) Stop feeling sorry for myself. Big source of internal dialogue. Playing through what I should have said in a past situation and things similar to this.
The internal dialogue is definitely an interesting thing. If we’re trying so hard to get rid of it, why is it there in the first place? Do newborns have internal dialogue? If they do not, why do they develop it when they grow older? Is the internal dialogue just words being repeated internally? If so, do people that cannot hear, do they have internal dialogue? If they do, what does their internal dialogue consist of? More interestingly, can a deaf person hear in their dreams, and similarly, can a blind person see in theirs? Does the internal dialogue persist in the dream state, or does dreaming affect this dialogue?
The internal dialogue of an extremely happy person must be vastly different than the internal dialogue of an extremely saddened individual. Does the internal dialogue create and reinforce these vastly different experiences and is it possible to use the internal dialogue to help in shifting one’s feelings and moods? In either case, the internal dialogue seems to be in the way of many things. How can one try to understand the world around them if they are constantly and consistently repeating to themselves the world is this way or the world is that way. What exactly happens when one starts to chip away at this dialogue and manages to stop it?
The question is, how does one stop it? Not entirely sure, there is no one way fits all solution to the internal dialogue problem, but there are many ways that you can attempt to stop the chatter. It’s important to recognize that the internal dialogue is tied to one’s attention, to one’s focus. The mind has a tendency of drifting, if you can start to recognize its drift, you can try to put forth will in stopping the dialogue.
For example, try going to bed and putting on some music, and just attempt to listen to the song that you’re listening to. Sometimes, your mind will drift and your focus will go from listening to the song, to focusing on your internal dialogue, what you did during the day, or whatever else you may be thinking of. You may be so engaged in your internal dialogue that you might have forgotten about the song all together, and it won’t be until the song stops, that you refocus and recognize, ohh crap, I was supposed to be focusing on the song. When the next songs starts to play, you can try to listen to the song in its entirety and try to fight this mind drift. It is this practice of focus and of will, that you can apply to help in eliminating one’s internal dialogue.
Wish you luck, I’m trying my best to stop mine.
Lose interest in it. There is nothing to do, it is a not-doing.
How do you stop a hot pot from burning your hands? Don't grab it.
In a manner of speaking, the more you practice this, the more inner silence you cultivate. We are tirelessly told in the world to get more and more involved with the internal dialogue. To become someone, to achieve success. To judge your stance. So we "separate" from existence and dwell on the mind's realm of endless commentary. When the results of this approach become unbearable, you get a chance to have a chance.
Internal dialogue cannot stop, the nature of the mind is to flow ceaselessly. What stops is your identification with it.
Should have added (permanently).
Only when the human form is finally lost is it gone for good.
But that is the result of some external force, that comes into play after years of tremendous and sustained effort.
Our true mind, yes.
Remember, the foreign installation, when seen has a side to side oscillatory quality...and that isn't our in our true nature.
What kind of advice is this? If you have never been able to stop your Internal Dialogue yourself, why are you commenting at all? This is most unhelpful. Do you think we are here just talking to hear ourselves?
This is very real. It has specific steps. It is a technology you can prove is true by following what others have done before on the J curve map. It is idiot proof, as long as people here are honest about their skillset.
To tell someone that "you can't stop the Internal Dialogue" when Silence is the entire basis of every success done here is asinine. Internal Dialogue is NOT the "nature of the mind!" It is not natural!Please don't talk when you don't know.
Shouldn't it become effortless? The effort itself is what needs gone...it's a way of being..not of doing..
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What I do is to calm down after some tensegrity exercises, sit, and focus on the area of the forehead between the eyebrows. More precisely, I breathe through my forehead and with my breathing I try to occupy the space which is occupied by thoughts.
The sensation in that area of the forehead happens as a pressure, and then I know that I have less thoughts. When thoughts appear, I inhale again through my forehead and brush them away, and so on.
I found a technique by myself when I was at the bottom of my life. I was so pissed at myself that I suddenly understood - "what if this voice that keeps swinging from one extreme to another is the problem, I am not my mind therefore I am not this voice".
So I visualized (I am the complete opposite of someone who has aphantasia, so when my voice isnt controlled, my mind-eye amplifies the problem due to the sheer potency of it) a clear orb leaving my head and stopping a meter away from me. Then I put through intent that voice into the orb. I separated my viewpoint from the voice and then I desintegrated the orb with all my will. And then poof. For the first time since I was a child. Silence. Total silence. I was awake again. And this is before I found about Don Juan etc. and found its not just me.