This conversation in the public chat channel should be preserved in a more accessible format:
mathestnoobest - 9:14 AM. i don't really understand how recap. helps you reach silence. you're concentrating really hard and thinking, not being silent.
danl999 - 9:56 AM. >i don't really understand how recap. helps you reach silence.
You still believe your ability to think and remember, is actually a product of the internal dialogue. That's why you don't understand. Which means, you haven't gotten very far at remove it.
Imagine a MASSIVE supercomputer, occupying nearly an entire office building, despite using our advanced computer designs of today. And it has a tiny human voice interface capability also. You're confusing that part, with the actual computer.
It's a common problem, but my theory is, it always indicates someone who didn't get around to doing much work. That opinion based, on 5 years of observations.
But to clarify this, we aren't after "silence". We just use that word because it's easier than saying, "Internal Dialogue". We're trying to eliminate the internal dialogue, and remembering historical events from a list, is NOT your internal dialogue.
Meditation systems take advantage of this phenomena where our internal dialogue holds us to this reality, by giving their followers a substitute one. Such as a mantra, "puzzle", or telling them to visualize or contemplate sutras. Those "modify" the internal dialogue, producing all of the meager results they get.
We have to REMOVE it entirely. But that doesn't preclude thinking. Or even talking. It just means, you don't fantasize about your life and your problems, using words in the mind.
To use another analogy, let's say some kind was traumatized by a crazy mom who believes God speaks to her constantly, and tells her what to do. So the kid is forced to recite small prayers from the bible all day long, starring as soon as it can talk. When it grows up, it can't do otherwise. If any stress or tension comes along in it's life, it starts praying to itself, using words. The kid grows up to be a very good accountant, but can never get rid of the trauma of being forced to pray to itself all the time. So it can use it's brain, but just can't stop that ingrained habit.
mathestnoobest - 11:04 AM. but when you recap, it would be important just to recap, not to analyze or ruminate over said recollecting.
danl999 - 11:19 AM. No, you can ruminate over the recollecting. That's ok too. Just don't fuss about all the other things you normally fuss about.
Oddly, you can in fact "think" and even talk to yourself, about some magic that's happening.
I've been surprised to learn of that in silent knowledge. Just don't get distracted by things unrelated to the topic at hand, and if you can, at least try a little, to remember without any words. But don't let that stress you out, because grief and worry drive away the energy body, and you NEED that to join you during recap, if you hope to see super cool magic happening.
drinkjetfuel - 11:24 AM. With the stage I’m at now. I feel that worry and self pity has a harsher impact on my sessions than my ID briefly kicking in. The past few days it’s taking a lot longer for colors to flow, I notice the delay, worry/think about it further delay and eventually get there, in a diminished capacity
danl999 - 12:07 PM. You have to learn to "feel self-pity" going away to fully understand what a "foreign installation" it really is. Can't be told about it. We want to get to the point that we can simply "drop it" anytime we like. Carlos got there before don Juan left, because as he was leaving and they were on that mountain top, he kept seeing Carlos revert to self-pity over losing them, and don Juan said, "Up from your toes!". And Carlos did. But then he reverted.
During darkroom, if you become familiar enough with what self-pity is, in terms of oppressing you like a blanket covering you over and preventing magic, when you locate it and "just drop it" a pleasurable wave comes over you, somewhat like "bliss" except much more profound. The second attention is instantly visible, your double swarms you as intense blue puffs (mutated purple ones), and jet blackness swirls with the puffs.
All in an instant!
I suppose drugs interrupt our ability to dwell in self-pity, so that's part of why they produce such strong effects. Of course, they won't take you past the red zone, so their results are very limited, despite being quite visual. There's no place quite as visual, as the deep red zone.
22 Comments
People get caught up with the the terminology like internal diaglogue or silence, and sometimes mis-apply them to a specific practice rather than a possible outcome. In spiritual circles people are trying to "shut down" their minds A LOT, and they might even get really good at it but that is often not the point of a lot of these meditative practices. I really like the term spiritual bypassing, and I think it applies to some of the activities people do here (unintentionally) - there is change and growth that needs to happen but its being ignored and instead the focus is on control of ones mind.
However, if you look at recapitulation or other simliar practices like EMDR or Internal Family Systems therapy, you will realize the emphasis on unlocking and focusing on memories and working with them (in some way) to alter them so they do not have an impact on us in the adulthood. With some complex scenarios actually requiring a lot of directed dialogue with your self to reach a resolution (as is the case of trauma and use of IFS). The outcome at the end of the day is that these memories do not spontenously and habitually arise in your mind and impell you to act in variety of ways - the worst of which is avoidance of our thoughts and need for external stimulation. You see by the time you are an adult you accumulated so much trauma that you end up trapped in a network of avoidance - most of your thoughts are just mechanism to avoid your past.
The insidious aspect of this condition is that even when you discover something that might get you out of this state you have a tendency to misinterpret the practice and actually amplify the avoidance. You think oh this will free me from my thoughts (including negative thoughts) so I am just going to nuke my mind and try to shut the whole thing down, congratulations you just took two steps back and you did not even realize it. So you gotta be careful not to fall into this trap, I have spend several years in it and it can be difficult to admit you are in that space.
Always focus on the thing that is bothering you the most, if something is bothering you but you dont understand what it is, prioritize understanding what it is, there is probably recapitulaiton work that needs to be done there. From my experience the things that bother us the most liberate the most energy when resolved.
Continued:
mathestnoobest - 6:31 PM. re silence; i shouldn't worry too much about silencing thought altogether, i should ideally try to think without words or verbal dialogue, even though that's not quite it, it's closer to what silencing our inner dialogue entails. not the end of thought but the end of certain types of self/verbal/language talk.
danl999 - 6:34 PM. "The Spirit" has taken pity on us, and if you merely make a very good effort to remove the internal dialogue, you get to see puffs. But even after so many years seeing puffs, even I can't ever get fully silent. I can't ever entirely remove the internal dialogue yet. So don't think of it as a "binary achievement". 1% removed, gets 1% of the possible amazing magical gifts. It's not a 0 gifts unless you reach 100% removal, and then you get them all.
The main point for a beginner is not to confuse "silence" with not talking. Monks who took a "vow of silence" are far worse off than any of our beginners! And Bruce Lee with his "you have to empty the cup", most likely had one of the nastiest internal dialogues going on the the 1970s. It's not an "Asian wise concept" at all.
Removing the internal dialogue is the opposite of "peaceful" and quiet. Later of course, it can be. But that's when you reach the level of a don Juan or Zuleica.
mathestnoobest - 6:41 PM. so when you're in dark room say, you're not thinking about anything, especially words, you're just perceiving the darkness? this not-inner dialogue state then loosens your fixation on the 1st attention and it starts to loosen, slide, then your perception widens? when i'm gazing, i'm kinda, just perceiving, it's undifferentiated, but i can only hold that for very short periods of time before an irrelevant thought intrudes.
mathestnoobest - 7:12 PM. i'm gathering though that this inner dialogue what is fixing me/my attention so hard on this particular world and that weakening this inner dialogue is the means to loosen that fixation so i can more broadly perceive
But there are meditators out there who specifically teach you to quiet the 'mind' and 'you are not your mind' (such as Mooji) so not all meditation is about creating an alternative dialogue so why be so against meditation?... and something else I'm curious about is why are magicians in tibet no different to what don Juan was teaching? I'm currently reading a book called Magic and Mystery in tibet by Alexandra David- Neel which goes in depth about the red and yellow hat sects who would know and create all sorts of magic, including bringing corpses back to life. There is even a guy called Grand master wolf on YouTube who grew up in tibet and can do telekinesis, surely that's a form of 'magic' no? Just wondering if somewhere down the line thats where don Juans teachings came from 🤔 but no doubt I'll get a lot of hate for asking this, I'm just curious so please don't be offended.
I'm not against meditation, personally. But others in here have a different viewpoint, one that is based on being more than a little jaded about people's motivations and their willingness to push ever further along the perceptual/evolutionary path.
The issue with meditation is getting stuck in an energetic eddy in the green zone, and never managing to break free from what has become an alternate self-reflection (a.p. position)...because you're "blissed out" and feel that you're enlightened.
And, I have read that book by Alexandra David-Neel as well! And the sad fact is that that Tibet has been decimated if not outright destroyed by post-cultural revolution China.
So whatever you read in there is more than likely lost (though everyone would like to believe that some secret Shangri-la still exists that is populated by mystical monks). And even if it's not entirely gone, you're not there, and are ridiculously unlikely to ever learn at the feet of some comic book "master."
Which is what it would take to wade thru all the pomp and circumstance, and intentional obfuscation in Tibetan Buddhism, and actually get anything real out of it beyond an artificial peace.
The works of Castaneda are here now, accessible, dynamic, and adapted for those of us raised in western culture; and are tied into an ever evolving and living 10,000 years old lineage.
Far older than anything Buddhist.
Thanks for your reply. Thats a great insightful answer, has given me a lot to ponder on. I love exploring all the different historical details about magic and where it all comes from and yes I never considered that aspect of meditation before. Thanks for taking time to reply, much appreciated 😌❤
Wolf's first 3 tricks are trivial to reproduce, and easily explained. And once explained you can see that what would have made it less easy to explain, he didn't do. He only showed nothing was going on, in a way that would fool the audience.
I hope he's not u sing a trick, but I could easily have done those at 12 years old, in my bedroom.
And where's anyone else who learned, in a community like you find in here, so you can examine it yourself and make sure it's true?
Nowhere.
Also, what's with the clown outfit???
I beg ur pardon? Resorting to name calling? Mustve hit a nerve, apologies.
If you're looking for saints, holy men, or kind people, you're in the absolute wrong place.
Didn't you read anything about how Carlos and don Juan taught?
If not, why pick this subreddit to hang out in?
They were pretty horrible at times because, the truth works. Attacking people's "sacred cows" also works.
If you want your self-pity babied, go elsewhere where they take your money and kiss your hands.
If you want magic, get real!
We're the only place you'll get any, and what's better is that no one wants your money in here.
Didn't you notice that?
Try some cartoons so you see what we're talking about.
No exaggerations there, no "Master Wolf".
Just what really happened to Athina, as close as I can animate it.
If you're a woman:
https://archive.org/details/womb-dreaming-p-1-4-k/WombDreamingP1_1080.mp4
If you want to know what our goal is:
https://archive.org/details/layeredsk-1080-p
If you want to see the kinds of things we get to do each night (EVERY night):
https://archive.org/details/zombie-to-hell
But there's more there to watch.
All happened as you see.
All exceed even the lame Buddha's made up experiences, and every Yogi who ever lived.
Relax, I was only asking, and no self pity here. Not really looking to learn magic, just curious about its origins in different parts of the world. Thanks for the links and the info and taking time to reply, I will check them out 🤡👍
I'm not agitated. I have to do this thousands of times a year!
Today, at least 4 different people wanted to argue about things.
In fact, I might be the WORLD AUTHORITY on this type of back and forth.
I can't imagine where else anyone would get this much experience with it, as it relates to the topic of magic.
Go look in the wiki at the "Are you a bad player" post to see the depths to which this subreddit has made it possible to identify the types of people who claim to be interested in magic and come her causing "issues".
The only thing I was curious about in your case was whether you were a man or a woman!
My brother married a man who looks like a woman, maybe... So I've been cautious about misidentifications ever since.
Got him into the academy awards though! They never let him in before that.
And we've had some trouble with men in here, who decided to switch sexes or were thinking about it.
But also with Islamic people.
And the Thai.
None of those seem to work out well for people's willingness to do hard work.
No worries, understandable. Yep I am a woman. I had questions I wanted to ask about and you've answered them now thanks 😊👍
I've finally seen a visual thing that looks like what I was seeing in the Layered SK video. At 2 minutes in, the clear things in the background are showing up for me, and I can sustain that view for hours at a time (even on a train ride with a pretty girl seated near me). Mine are more abstract looking than the ones in the video, but the same ethereal quality to them. I've managed to go deeper now, but I am still curious, was this the "deep green zone"?
I'd have to see a picture of what you mean.
This kind of stuff fills the entirety of my vision, no purple, no darkness (daylight gazing). Mine is also more abstract looking than this, but very vivid.
That's red zone.
Thank you Dan! That probably explains why I was very obsessed trying to find out where it was.
Visits to the inorganic being's world don't have to be as clear as Carlos described. Keep in mind, he was in sleeping dreaming when he explained the second gate to us.
We're using waking dreaming. That's a lot harder to be vivid.
But with a good horizontal shift, it's AMAZINGLY REAL.
Until you leave the red zone and move on, and then it's very difficult to trigger that kind of red zone realness.
Might take some repeated tensegrity to accomplish that again. Like, for quite a long time.
But so what? There's far more if you keep going. Not the same, but perhaps even better in the long run.
Huh... I suspect I have exactly the same proclivity for the inorganics then. I have been seeing this daily for months on end (just didn't know what it was).
Well, if you get kidnapped we'll notice and you'll be famous!
So nothing to worry about.
No one who went to the IOB world has ever died yet. And the death defier even plotted a way out of there.
Makes me wonder if Julian can't be rescued.
Carlos and the witches did plan a rescue for don Juan, when they believed he might not have made it to the third attention.
Then later they seem to have changed their mind and were confident he'd succeeded.
You do get "visits" in SK.
Love it!
And, lastly, this further continuation from the next day:
aLaStOr_MoOdY47 - 10:33 AM. Since the intent of recapitulation has already been set, does this mean that anyone who practices it correctly, without even knowing what they are doing, will still reclaim their energy as intended?
danl999 - 11:05 AM. Of course! You dont' reclaim the energy by intending it, you reclaim it by moving your assemblage point back to where it was, when the event happened. It's like going back to your childhood playgrounds tot pick up toys you hid there in places you can still reach today.
The "intent" of sorcery is not what creates it. It's just what keeps you from going astray, like our Dr, Clueless, MD. Who believes the goal is to be impeccable, and help others do the same. When in fact, nowhere in the books does it say anything like that. He isn't following the "intent of the seers of ancient Mexico". Just the intent of self-soothing, attention seeking, and pretending.
Now... In some cases, you are gazing at supernatural things which really do exist on their own, but not enough people have viewed them, to give them a constant appearance. And that's because, they don't actually "look like" anything. They're "over there", and don't have to follow the rules "over here". They make perfect sense where they are, but it's very hard for us to see that. So, the intent of past sorcerers, who visualize it as something concrete, is useful to us.
In THAT case, "intent" does create something. But overall, it does not. The path of sorcery comes from the dark sea of awareness itself! Maybe driven by the very goal of it, to "learn about itself".
That's what sorcerers do, learn about reality. Instead of just "dumb probes" like most living beings, we're "smart probes".
Emergency-Total-4851- 10:11 AM. So, to get to the orange zone, no one currently knows how to do it with gazing?
danl999 - 10:35 AM. That's correct. But it could change soon! The problem as I see it is, gazing is a lazy choice. People who make that choice, just aren't willing to commit as much to the practices. Darkroom has a bit of a hurdle you have to overcome.It's as Carlos said: You have to "jump". In the case of his private class, he told us to "walk to san diego". Right after class! 110 miles.
No one did.
danl999 - 10:36 AM. In the case of Tony Karam, he had to have sex with Carol Tiggs. In my own case, when it was obvious Florinda was ditching Cleargreen after Carlos died, Carlos wanted me to have sex with her, to show I was qualified to go off with them the way Kylie did.
So in sorcery, there's some kind of "commitment magic".
Emergency-Total-4851- 10:37 AM. Intent, after all.
danl999- 10:38 AM. However, all of the apprentices did gazing, so i don't want to put it down. It's just that, it's not much of a commitment. So whether it can get you to the orange zone, is almost irrelevant, because we may never find out, because people who pick that path will tend to give up. Just a theory though.
I hope it's wrong.
HELLO_MORNING_1995- 10:16...It's something genuine. Serious. Lifetime. Evolutionary, expansive.