i understand that sorcery is real in the sense that, we have here a systematic approach that can be done, and if done with due diligence, will give you results. it's reproducible if you do the work. you will see colors, blobs, you may even have psychedelic-like experiences.
but it's a very personal experience. it's not shared.
i mean, you can also take shrooms or other power plants and you will get results too. is what you experience real too? i guess it can be interpreted as such too, but how do we know? these are very personal experiences.
how do we know we're interacting with IOBs and visiting different worlds versus just having figured out how to reproduce states naturally you normally would need psychedelic drugs for?
how do we know it's not all in the mind, as those who would dismiss sorcery would say?
of course this in the end comes down to how said experiences are interpreted, even psychedelic ones. some consider them empty hallucinations, like normal dreams, some think you're really expanding your awareness.
but how do we know what is really going on here?
without have access to shared experiences, i.e. objective ones, how can we know this is real? for this i understand you need to be able to shift others' assemblage points or it will be forever subjective?
how do you move this from the subjective to the objective?
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You have it in the first paragraph. The rest of what you wrote 🤷🏾‍♂️are just your own subjective doubts, kind of like when a pet reacts to its own reflection in the mirror.
i ahve no authority to speak here, but from a philosophical point of view you can't prove anything is outside the mind. me writing this message for example could just be another aspect of your subconcious, another dream.
You have this absolutely backwards.
It's the "real" world that's subjective. You're just stuck in your own little hellish version of it, due to feeling sorry for yourself all the time.
That's from the internal dialogue, trained by very bad upbringing in a modern family where you are basically hazed into that feeling of sorrow and grief we're dominated by after puberty. Which is when the internal dialogue firmly cements in place, and never stops for the rest of our life. Imprisoning us in sadness.
Sorcery is the process of getting BEYOND what's subjective, to see what's really there!
The initial stages are NOT the goal, those are just entertainment to keep you going.
And, thank goodness those evil clowns you might run into aren't actually "real", and don't stick around long...
Sorcery is a step by step process to undo the horrible brainwashing we were put through, which goes so deep it's even embedded in our muscles and how they move.
And in our feelings about "what can be, and what cannot".
Using sorcery you slowly undo all the brainwashing, which allows "impossible" things to show up.
But as we get used to each "impossible thing" it fades away like a ghost, and you get to see the next level of the "real reality".
Until you reach the emanations.
At that point, you might even miss the realness of things you're long past, like Evil Clowns.
You have in fact moved beyond "realness".
Thus in the books we often find don Juan standing there calmly, while a flock of yellow eyed demons tries to devour Carlos. It's because don Juan is past that "subjective" view of the world, and only sees the real thing. Energy.
La Gorda started out seeing the Allies as Mexican rapists, but then later she only detected a "pressure" coming towards her.
As you move further along the J curve, you eventually realize that reality is just superstrings of awareness, and the places and things we see are just bundles of those, harmonizing from our awareness flowing into them.
And it doesn't give you doubt to realize that, because you end up being able to manipulate directly, what they display to you.
POWER!!! Beyond what you can imagine.
It's like a huge Christmas bonus paycheck from all of your hard work.
You seem to be trying to talk yourself out of doing any actual work to witness this yourself.
I could liken what you posted to:
"Why should I get a job? You have to get up early in the morning, and that hurts sometimes. Am I right? And then you have to deal with unfair bosses, unfair pay, and crazy co-workers. I can't think of anything at all good about having a job. And can't you just get the government to declare you unable to work, and go live somewhere with cheap rent?"
You can actually do that in California. I've been trying to talk Cholita into joining the gravy train, but she refuses.
But here, in the "Golden State" you can figure out how to declare yourself unable to work, and then the political party that gives out free cash will pay you, knowing you'll have to vote for them from now on.
That's a metaphor for society, not for any particular political point of view.
Besides, there ARE shared experiences!
Carlos and the witches wrote all about them.
And I have Cholita around, so I get to see her levitate things, with a smug look on her face.
It's just very hard to find another person practicing this, and you can't force random people to perceive what they were taught to refuse to perceive.
We all have equal power to design our "subjective reality".
Even if most of them are extremely horrible.
Thus there's an undertone to your question, insisting you need another person to do the work for you, and teach you by showing you magic.
That kind of desire will make you a victim of fake magic gurus if you aren't careful.
Just remember: never give anyone money to learn magic or spirituality. Including never donate to their cause or group.
That'll keep you safe from the worst of them.
Question about donating to a cause or group...
I am affiliated with a group of witches that gather regularly for Solstice related activities. I was sucked in fast at first and then was able to pull back from participating because I realized how much of a drain on me it was. Only thing is I love it. I have so much fun going and messing with the witches.
Does participating in events like that waste at you?
I don't recall, are you male or female?
If you're male, women give out free dark energy if you please them.
It's one way they manipulate men. Even ordinary men.
Don Juan mentioned it once, saying that middle aged men often use the energy of a young woman, to try to change their life and move away from what it's become.
The old guy in the red sports car with a young girlfriend.
That's not entirely about sex.
Carlos was accused of that by Howard Lee, who warned Marshall Ho'o's daughter to stay away from Carlos, because he was a "bad man".
Of course, Howard is the one who got a young woman pregnant... And then married one of his groupies. Probably a different one.
Carlos would just show up at events like the Tai Chi association annual picnic, with a different young women on his arm each year.
I myself used to have little herds of young women I could hang out with. Five at a time once in a while.
But that was after Carlos made me celibate, so there was nothing more sinister than shopping and drinking wine going on there.
Cholita put a stop to that...
And then there's Cholita's side of all this.
Anything which inspires her is helpful.
Even if it's total fake magic nonsense.
But, she practices her sorcery, including tensegrity, for hours a day.
So her hobbies, such as putting a curse on a blue jay that's been dive bombing her in her yard, isn't much of what she does to learn magic.
It's just recreational.
The clowns lasted like 2 days
That seems about right. Assuming you practice daily. If not, they can last for years.
Could you consider them emanations that intersect at many peoples’ assemblage points?
When you say we undo the brainwash, I think of confronting it with silence and letting it unravel naturally, that’s what it feels like. Is that the same process you’re speaking of?
I know where you are coming from , for example this is concrete proof
The value in this system for me comes in being able to directly relate with the inorganic beings of my lineage and the ability to access all the information that was destroyed by the conquerors .From there the sky is the limit. We also maintain four elements in everything so the channel I linked and his explanations fit seamlessly for me .
I don't think anyone in here is lifting cars or stuff like that. Could be wrong . Either way you should definitely practice what you see here.
Everything begins fundamentally from subjectivity, and when it comes to collective experience, it evolves into an objective definition. The same is true for sorcery. There are many subjective experiences that occur when someone is acting deliberately and with focus, creating an environment for them to happen. These experiences are not only personal but can also be shared by many, leading to collective experiences.
Ultimately, these experiences become a stable, objectively defined phenomenon—not only for us today but for all the lineages that came before us, who experienced sorcery both individually and in groups. I mean, you’ve read the books, right? They performed some truly astonishing feats together.
The difference between sorcery and a hallucination is that sorcery is a deliberate process with a specific goal, while a hallucination is an involuntary process, typically caused by what we would call a functional imbalance in the brain.
As you ponder this subject, you may forget that sorcery is fundamentally about perception. The mind often assumes that perception is just a form of thinking. But perception, at its core, is the process through which our body interprets data, creating the reality we experience in real time.
Sorcery is the act of deliberately accessing a different system of data interpretation—essentially, entering different modes of experience. Drugs, mental or physical illness may provide access to other levels of experience, but they are chaotic, messy, and unreliable.
If you sit and reflect on all of this, your mind will likely generate doubts and "buts." You lack clarity and broad perception. But if you spend time in inner silence and practice, you'll stop wondering and start understanding.
Thank you for making this point. I see too often that our conventional physical system of interpretation completely ignores this fundamental aspect (which ironically has been empirically verified by various modern tools):
perceived sensory data collected by our body’s receptors is watered down several times before it reaches our everyday awareness.
All people that venture get to the same waypoints/checkpoints, even though their subjective interpretation can seemingly be slightly different - puffs, waves, electrical presence -iob are the starting one.
Which is exactly the same process as in the 'real' world right ?
You’ll know for sure by practicing inner silence. Simple but hard af. After all, we live to experience.
That’s the pitfall of learning in my opinion: always needing concrete proof, usually in the form of putting someone else on a pedestal. Having them do the labor for you instead of finding out yaself.
Maybe this might help. Let’s say you’re being bullied by a manager at work and no one believes you. The manager is beloved by everyone else in the office, but the manager always treats you horribly: belittles you, gives you a heavier workload than your peers, etc.
Is your experience with this manager not real just because the shared experiences of everyone else in the office with this manager out numbers yours?
i understand your point but i don't think it's an apt analogy.
the objectivity or shared experience criteria is just a way i want to check i'm not fooling myself.
i can prove to myself i can give myself psychedelic-like experiences using these methods. i can prove that with shrooms too. i mean, i have crazy dreams every night too but that doesn't mean what i'm experiencing is 'real' in the sense of an actual entity or other world. i am looking for some objective (external-to-myself) mechanism or feedback to check that what is going on is real or rather not just something my mind is just manufacturing, if that makes sense. not sure how to put it but hope my point is understood.
dan and athina made some interesting comments i'm still digesting. because i am kind of begging the question that my ordinary waking reality is THE objective reality when that itself is at question.
I’m following along and partially understand what you mean now.
And what if it’s actually ya mind “playing tricks” on you? Why is the idea of fooling yaself important to you?
Are you worried about how you will be perceived by engaging in this practice? especially if the outcome is not what you expected?
”But what I mean, don Juan, is that if you and I look at a bird and see it fly, we agree that it is flying. But if two of my friends had seen me flying as I did last night, would they have agreed that I was flying?”
Well, they might have. You agree that birds fly because you have seen them flying. Flying is a common thing with birds. But you will not agree on other things birds do, because you have never seen birds doing them. If your friends knew about men flying [dreaming awake], then they would agree.”