Carol Tiggs said we could. And last night, while doing exactly what you see here as best I can animate it with my tools, I was also convinced it was possible to use "leverage" to dent someone's luminous egg, even if you're not a Nagual.
Here's what don Juan said about it:
What your seeing says it's true, Don Juan said that you have to see the AP to strike on it precisely. But Don Juan says that only a "nagual" can actually do it.
( "This process of emphasizing certain emanations," don Juan went on, "was discovered and practiced by the old seers. They realized that a nagual man or a nagual woman, by the fact that they have extra strength, can push the emphasis away from the usual emanations and make it shift to neighboring ones. That push is known as the nagual's blow."
"The new seers employ the same technique of a shift in emanation emphasis, but instead of using it for sordid purposes, they use it to guide their apprentices to learn about man's possibilities. Don Juan explained that the nagual's blow has to be delivered on a precise spot on the assemblage point which varies minutely from person to person. Also, the blow has to be delivered by a nagual who sees. He assured me that it is equally useless to have the strength of a nagual and not see, as it is to see and not have the strength of a nagual. In either case, the results are just blows. A seer could strike on the precise spot over and over without the strength to move awareness; and a non-seeing nagual would not be able to strike the precise spot."
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The advanced subreddit is providing the quotes from don Juan. Here's another:
***
"Genaro turned to me and assured me that the nagual Julian had been a ruthless teacher. He and his own teacher, the nagual Elias, who was still in the world then, used to push everyone's assemblage points beyond a crucial limit and let them fend for themselves.
"I once told you that the nagual Julian recommended us not to waste our sexual energy,"
Genaro went on. "He meant that for the assemblage point to shift, one needs energy. If one doesn't have it, the nagual's blow is not the blow of freedom, but the blow of death."
"Without enough energy," don Juan said, "the force of alignment is crushing. You have to have energy to sustain the pressure of alignments which never take place under ordinary circumstances."
***
fortunately, a beginner won't be able to collect any energy at all, using claw hand.
In the last 50 years, not a single person made that technique work.
Even Carobeth Laird, supposedly a Lakota shamaness, wouldn't put her energy into it, to save her life.
That's where it came from originally, although there was an account of Carlos laying on his back and doing it with his right hand.
Left hand pushes out bad feelings, right hand scoops "stuff" from the air.
is the sex stuff still true? abstaining will give you more energy for seeing etc?
Yes, but ONLY if you already have visible magic.
It won't help you get there.
It's like don Juan said. That denying yourself things is the worst sort of indulgence, because it forces you to believe you are doing great things, when you're only focused in yourself.
"Self" is the real energy destroyer.
But yes, sex = dreaming energy according to Taisha and Florinda.
And it's WAKING dreaming energy.
Worse, for women sex can lead to having a crappy man drain energy from your, for 7 years.
Those sperm are devious little worms!
Wait, how does one know whether celibacy is beneficial or not then? How do I know whether I am indulging in self-deprivation or cultivating discipline/dreaming energy.
Personally, I can assure you that my dreams are much more clear and stable after a period (a month or so) of abstinence. When I break the “fast” my dreams become uncontrollable and my dream recall becomes quite blurry.
We always get these arguments in the subreddit, and my only conclusion is that it's usually about masturbation and wondering if you can "get away with it".
Plus a mix of inappropriateness. Maybe even some maliciousness. And some Yogi delusions centering around "sperm retention". Which are one of the major points that make "Annoying Yoga Men" so annoying. Even to their girlfriends.
And if you get Cholita going about sex, she might start to masturbate in the air obscenely, while making weird faces.
So it's not a good topic to bring up...
Fortunately, Carlos refused to answer that question.
Because he'd already written as much as anyone who cares to know, needs.
You could have simply answered instead of writing so much without an actual answer.
It is confusing because Nagual Elias was a wild one before entering the path. It is said that he was promiscuous and unbalanced. It is clear that one is not allowed to waste sexual energy, but does that include our whole lives or just one period. I remember that some students of Elias (I guess) were caught off guard while making love in a closet and they ended up half stuck in the inorganic world. They were never “whole” again.
Also, masturbation could be allowed for girls only since it is explicitly said they need to avoid intercourse so that they don’t “feed” their male partners.
"The same thing happened to me," don Juan went on. "It was only when my sexual energy was freed from the world that everything fit into place. That is the rule for dreamers. Stalkers are the opposite. My benefactor was, you could say, a sexual libertine both as an average man and as a nagual."
The only thing that will make it clear for you is when you can actually see the effects of it on your magic. Anything else besides visual magic is not necessary.
He said that the new seers were completely different, that they maintain their assemblage points along the midsection of man's band. If the shift is a shallow one, like the shift into heightened awareness, the dreamer is almost like anyone else in the street, except for a slight vulnerability to emotions, such as fear and doubt. But at a certain degree of depth, the dreamer who is shifting along the midsection becomes a blob of light. A blob of light is the dreaming body of the new seers.
If you can't see magic, it simply means that you are in a shallow shift (vulnerability to emotions).
I appreciate your constructive response. Also, I am interested how did you find the exact verse that I was referring to when speaking of Elias? Could you tell me which chapter and which book is in question?
That is not Elias. That is the Nagual Julian. I’ve read all the books a few times each and I know roughly what I’m looking for.
I guess Elias was in the closet with his girlfriend then. Anyway, which book/chapter is this quotation about Nagual Julian?
Power of Silence: The Knock of the Spirit.
It's so funny that you talk about "actionable advice" but want to get hung up about weird things.
Just practice, huh?
Thanks. Regarding “weird things”, I don’t view them as such anymore. About 7-8 years ago when I was heavily practicing the art of dreaming, I ended up making a terrible life decision purely because of the emissary had told me so. I did seek advice and got heavily discouraged and disappointed. In the meantime, I figured crows help much more and are reliable.
So yeah, I am paying attention to every detail because I got burned.
Omens aren’t a “practice” that’s just something that happens. Every sorcerer does recapitulation… even in Art of Dreaming it says that recapitulating and dreaming go hand in hand.
I beg to differ. Omen reading and seeking our cubic centimeter of opportunity is a practical skill that needs to be applied. Usually people only get what some image meant only when it doesn’t matter anymore, it takes specific attention and effort to recognize an omen and to act accordingly. DJ talked about abstract core’s. Also, butterflies were a good sign and seen as helpers of sorcerers. I can tell you from experience that some omens/synchronicities saved me a lot of times and could have saved me even more if I was attuned when I needed to be.
Let's see some quotes that omen reading takes practice.
You're plainly making up stuff in your own head.
You are simply not attuned because you are not practicing reaching the second attention because you are making up ideas in your own head.
"I asked him if he himself had experienced the third attention. He said that he was on the periphery of it, and that if he ever entered it completely I would know it instantly, because all of him would become what he really was, an outburst of energy. He added that the battlefield of warriors was the second attention, which was something like a training ground for reaching the third attention. It was a state rather difficult to arrive at, but very fruitful once it was attained."
Everyone here that is practicing is in the battlefield of the second attention, and you aren't, since you are still not deciding to practice.
This is such a synchronicity. I have been mulling about this issue for the last hour or so.
How do you transmute sexual energy? Meaning, I apologize if my question sounds weird, I tend to arouse when I feel deep in spirituality. It never fails.
I have not had intimacy for a while, and I feel no problem about it. Actually, quite happy about it.
I am deep in listening to Castaneda books and other spirituality books at the moment. For the last couple of days, I have dreams that I am having sex with strangers or being molested. I remember Don Juan said if you have recurring dreams, you have to pay attention.
I don't want to waste my sexual energy and want to redirect it toward my journey to freedom. I am a woman btw.
Find out for yourself through practice! I personally think it's still better for a stalker to keep control of their sexual impulses. I know I am good at stalking, because when I practice, I can keep up a stable assemblage point position for at least an hour at a time. I have had smoke coming out of my hands that I can clearly see in dim darkness and I just play with the smoke for an hour and a half at a time. You, as a woman, should be easily able to outmatch me, and if you aren't, it's because you aren't trying hard enough. Men are not worth much in the sorcery world according to Don Juan and the lineages.
That's why the only thing we encourage is practice.
Thank you.
"Sexual intercourse is always a bestowal of awareness even though the bestowal may not be consolidated" he went on. "The emanations inside the cocoon don't know of intercourse for fun".
so even if both partners are physically infertile is irrelevant, its an energetic thing only? linked to arousal/orgasm i guess?
I just always wondered if that part is true since it sounds like those dudes that think you can get jedi mind powers from 30 days nofap
Energy is essentially sexual as far as I know.
Which book is it? Which page/chapter?
The Fire from within, I recommend reading the whole book.
I read all of them, even some from Taisha and Florinda. However, I don’t get what is the takeaway. I just figured that one should abstain from sexual activities in order to save energy for dreaming.
" I really don't know," don Juan finally answered me. " All I know is what it means to warriors. They know that the only real energy we possess is a life- bestowing sexual energy. This knowledge makes them permanently conscious of their responsibility."
Don Juan also mentions that our parents were born to have us.
" If warriors want to have enough energy to see, they must become misers of their sexual energy... Since every one of us wanted to See, we, of course, abstained from wasting our glow of awareness".
One of the witches went to watch a porn movie once and observed that it was weakening..
Another observation was that nuns and priests are still around, and it's reckoned that abstinence from sex may have saved them a lot of hassle.
A sexual act is always a bestowal. It's a huge exchange. We' interested in redeploying energy, to bring the emphasis away from the obsessive fixation of the known.
" It is the Eagle's command that sexual energy be used for creating life", if it' s not, I guess that would be termed " counter- intent" around "here". .
Genaro's explanation of awareness was just obscene sexual gestures.
Our attention is easily hijacked by " concerns about sex". It's the ole human form.
So it comes down as always to saving energy, which is often left behind in the sexual act which has not had a successful function of bestowing awareness anyway. .
" ..the nagual Julian recommended us not to waste our sexual energy" Genaro went on. " He meant that for the assemblage point to shift, one needs energy. If one doesn't have it, the nagual' s blow is not the blow of freedom, but the blow of death".
So yeah, saving energy is the takeaway, not just for " dreaming", but for surviving whatever " blow" might await us.
The advanced subreddit is providing the quotes from don Juan. Here's another:
***
"Genaro turned to me and assured me that the nagual Julian had been a ruthless teacher. He and his own teacher, the nagual Elias, who was still in the world then, used to push everyone's assemblage points beyond a crucial limit and let them fend for themselves.
"I once told you that the nagual Julian recommended us not to waste our sexual energy,"
Genaro went on. "He meant that for the assemblage point to shift, one needs energy. If one doesn't have it, the nagual's blow is not the blow of freedom, but the blow of death."
"Without enough energy," don Juan said, "the force of alignment is crushing. You have to have energy to sustain the pressure of alignments which never take place under ordinary circumstances."
***
Fortunately, a beginner won't be able to collect any energy at all, using claw hand.
In the last 50 years, not a single person made that technique work.
Even Carobeth Laird, supposedly a Lakota shamaness, wouldn't put her energy into it, to save her life.
That's where it came from originally, although there was an account of Carlos laying on his back and doing it with his right hand.
Left hand pushes out bad feelings, right hand scoops "stuff" from the air.
More Nagual's blow information courtesy of witches:
One of the Argentineans then asked in Spanish whether Carlos would put him into the second attention. Carlos rolled his eyes as if to say, "Here we go again." (I thought--Maximizing our time with the Pope.) He told us that don Juan's lineage believed that forcing apprentices into the second attention via the nagual's blow to the assemblage point was the most expeditious route to gaining their acceptance of sorcery. He said that such blows left dents in the luminous cocoon, and that all of the members of don Juan's party had permanently dented cocoons due to the number of such blows they had sustained. Carlos and his party no longer subscribe to this way of thinking, and believe that discipline and energy are all that are needed to gain access to sorcery. Therefore the answer was no, we would have to accomplish this journey on our own.
Carlos said it had taken him and the members of his party many years to repair the dents that had been made in their cocoons.
More surprising info from chat:
"You are forgetting something essential," he said. "The nagual's presence is enough to move the assemblage point. I have humored you all along with the nagual's blow. The blow between the shoulder blades that I have delivered is only a pacifier. It serves the purpose of removing your doubts. Sorcerers use physical contact as a jolt to the body. It doesn't do anything but give confidence to the apprentice who is being manipulated."
So this is unrelated, well it’s related to my train of thought, but if I don’t say it I’ll forget it. You once told me I would “see” why all other magical practices are pretenders and I see it now. All of the other religions are missing the vital condition that their “ascended masters” were all sorcerers. So they pretend to practice their magic while “looking”, not “seeing”. So their shit never works, not to them. They need faith to justify what they’re doing and use dreams and levels of dreams to justify it working. But they’re not actually “seeing” anythinf
No, you've misunderstood.
They make it to the green zone. There's a map on the side.
But no further.
And because they believe in their system, they learn to make it to the green zone easily, and then begin to explore sideways.
And horizontal shifting leads to serious delusions, which are typically only active during that practice session.
But they try to stabilize them.
And so they become deluded into believing that their pretend system is literally true, which means those who came before them are immortal as they were told in order to steal money from them, and on top of all that, they sit themselves down on little thrones, so they can avoid having to get a real job, and steal money by passing on the delusions.
I suppose some crazy Yogis make it down to the red zone, but you can never be sure those guys aren't just using ganga when they do that.
As far as their "achievement" of making it to the green zone, prayer does that much faster, and hitting the snooze button in the morning and laying there enjoying just having emerged from a dream state, blows away anything any "Master" ever experiences.
It's just too confusing and so we can't value what we don't remember, seconds after finally waking up.
All this is super obvious! There's the internet now.
And this place is easy to compare to other places.
thank you for this.
..another passage from ffw
" The nagual' s blow is of great importance," he went on, because it makes that point move. It alters its location. Sometimes it even creates a permanent crevice there. The assemblage point is totally dislodged, and awareness changes dramatically. But what is a matter of even greater importance is the proper understanding of the truths about awareness in order torealize that that point can be moved from within. The unfortunate truth is that human beings always lose by default. They simply don't know about their possibilities "
" How can one accomplish that change from within? I asked
" The new seers say that realization is the technique", he said. " They say that, first of all, one must become aware that the world we perceive is the result of our assemblage points' being located on a specific spot on the cocoon. Once that is understood, the assemblage point can move almost at will, as a consequence of new habits."
I did not quite understand what he meant by habits. I asked him to clarify his point.
" The assemblage point of man appears around a definite area of the cocoon, because the Eagle commands it," he said. " But the precise spot is determined by habit, by repetitious acts. First we learn that it can be placed there and then we ourselves command it to be there. Our command becomes the Eagle's command and that point is fixated on that spot.Consider this very carefully; our command becomes the Eagle's command. The old seers paid dearly for that finding. We' ll come back to that later on"
He stated once again that the old seers had concentrated exclusively on developing thousands of most complex techniques of sorcery. He added that what they never realized was that their intricate devices, as bizarre as they were, had no other value than being a means to break the fixation of their assemblage points and make them move.
I asked him to explain what he had said.
" I' ve mentioned to you that sorcery is something like entering a dead-end-street," he replied. " What I meant was that sorcery practices have no intrinsic value. Their worth is indirect, for the real function is to make the assemblage point shift by making the first attention release its control on that point.
" The new seers realized the true role those sorcery practices played and decided to go directly into the process of making their assemblage points shift, avoiding all the other nonsense of rituals and incantations. Yet rituals and incantations are indeed necessary at one time in every warrior's life. I personally have initiated you in all kinds of sorcery procedures, but only for the purpose of luring your first attention away from the power of self- absorption, which keeps your assemblage point fixed."
He added that the obsessive entanglement of the first attention in self- absorption or reason is a powerful binding force, and that ritual behavior, because it is repetitive, forces the first attention to free some of the energy from watching the inventory, as a consequence of which the assemblage point loses its rigidity.
....
The key to dark room practice using Tensegrity!
Why it works at all.
>What do you mean when you say that priests and nuns are still around and that it probably saved them a lot of hassle?
reddit hides past conversations. You have to look hard.
Maybe quote it?
As for the rest, it seems you're willing to pretend your results.
And perhaps are more interested in inspiration, than actual magic?
There's always "look what I found" types around.
It's an indication of a desire for social rewards, rather than real results.
I literally paraphrased that sentence with priests and nuns. It is natural that one doesn’t get what the commentator wanted to say. Hiwever, that is all we have for now, unless he answers. As for the rest of your comment, I am afraid that I am not the one and that your diagnostic is inaccurate indeed, not to say insulting. I have never pretended nor lied about my accomplishments on this sub. On the contrary, I think that you should respect my efforts and will to try treading on this path without the help of drugs. Well, maybe CC didn’t advise us to even try anything without guidance, but I sure can’t help myself, as I am looking for freedom and a small chance is still a chance as opposed to not doing anything at all. I am an advanced practitioner at some disciplines, yet a complete beginner in other. So please, stop with the false insinuations, we are not in court.
"Mescalito" in a user name always ends up being owned by someone on an angry ego trip.
Looks like you're the one who is confused 😆 I think I said something about nuns and priests. So..ahum it seems "your diagnostic is inaccurate indeed, not to say insulting". Wouldn't you agree.
I know you mentioned them, but it is still unknown what was the point, the meaning behind the example you gave.
If you knew I mentioned them, why approach Dan as though he did? It seems you've already lost the thread now I am here to pick it up for you?
I don't feel like defending a point which is deliberately misinterpreted. Or having to repeat myself because " one of us is senile".
Here, as a reminder of what you're so confused about, a quote which is relevant to your confusion, I hope that clears things up, if that is what you're after-
"...not only were nuns and priests complete as a rule, but they did not even weaken themselves with sexual acts"
" The Nagual said that that is the reason they will never be exterminated, no matter who tries to extermiate them. Those who are after them are always empty; they don't have the vigor that true nuns and priests have."