Hi everyone. I have read several books of different religions and philosophies and there is one thing I don't understand: why are the Toltec shamans the only ones who talk about flyers? Why don't Buddhists say this? Why don't Muslims say this? Why doesn't Eckhart Tolle say this? Why didn't Khrishnamurti say this?
Do they exist or not?
51 Comments
He’s not.
Look up the Gnostic writings about the Archons.
For the most part in a way it is mentioned just by another name
"Flyers" is basically just intent against intent,
Willpower vs willpower
Again spark notes version there's more to it but i try not to be long winded I am also a guest here someone can explain the Castaneda perspective better than me. (Also there's a wiki that can give you definitions which you can then use to compare and contrast)
Its part of why other practices cleanse their space, set up wards and protections. It's why curses and hexes are so hard to actually make work long story short
You'll find that when you get deeper into magic, a lot of things have different names for similar phenomenon and just prioritize certain aspects,
Am I the only one who doesn’t get what this guy is trying to say?
Imagine one of your parent is telling you not to do sports, then you look for ways to do it. Meanwhile you gained more power stored in your body, which is entertwined with intent.
He/she is intent, you are intent, meanwhile more power if produced.
So you can say parasite is kinda following the active side of infinity, acting on its own to expand something.
You're not gonna win with "willpower against willpower" against the thousands of ancient energies that have been living and growing for hundreds of your lifetime. Don Juan said that warriors don't break walls, they leap over them. Energy currents can be used as lift, but to use them we have to drop all the crap that staples us to floor.
the tyrants, the rulers, guardians of the threshold, the controllers
Which one? There are two, in the public sphere:
U.G. Krishnamurti
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddu_Krishnamurti
I meant Jiddu, but it doesn't matter, you didn't answer my question
Actually, it does matter.
U.G. is much, much closer to sorcery than Jiddu. The latter's views are thus going to be decidedly closer to mainstream Hinduism, which you've already mentioned and are presumably familiar with.
Because those are all fake magical systems designed for stealing money, which fool beginners by using meditative effects and minor visions, which are promoted as being "enlightenment".
When in fact, the highest Buddhist who ever lived wasn't even as skillful for "seeing" as a beginner in here.
He just got himself slimed in our "green zone", which is mostly not even worth discussing.
Everyone gets those effects all the time, through prayer, or even just hitting the snooze button in the morning, so you can lay with your eyes closed for 5 minutes.
That's "enlightenment" in Asia.
So you might as well ask, why hasn't someone who hit the snooze button in the morning, seen the fliers?
I hope you looked around in here...
Because Krishnamurti is a total idiot, and Eckhart is an evil con artist.
Every system talks about this
Islam : jinn/shayāṭīn
Christian: demons
Buddhism: hungry ghosts
Eckhart Tolle: pain body,ego
Jinn, demons, evil spirits attack SOME people, not all.
Tolle's ego is a mental construction, it is not a sentient living being with a will.
Here we are talking about SENTIENT beings who eat EVERYONE.
Colin Wilson describes something similar in his book “The Philosopher's Stone” (1969).
These things don’t just go after some people they affect everyone by default. Every tradition talks about it differently, but they’re all pointing to the same core truth: a parasitic, sentient force that feeds off human energy by keeping us stuck in lower states fear, lust, laziness, shame, chaos.
The real illusion is thinking only certain people are attacked. The truth is, most people are so used to the influence, they assume it’s just their personality.
Take Islam, for example. There’s something called the “nafs”, and it’s always with you. It’s alive, it’s intelligent, and it thinks. It constantly pulls you toward what’s easy, addictive, and destructive. It has its own mind and when it thinks, you hear it in your mind. Worse is it always think negative, Exactly like what Castaneda describes.
Then the shayāṭīn come and whisper suggestions to it, and most of the time, it just runs with them. You don’t even notice it happening. You overeat, skip your priorities, get distracted, binge something you swore you wouldn’t and afterwards you’re like, “What the hell just happened?” That’s the nafs hijacking your brain for a moment.
Christianity calls it “the flesh” that part of you that constantly pulls away from growth, discipline, and higher consciousness.
Some people look like they’re not affected. In reality, they’ve just trained it, disciplined it through meditation, prayer, workouts, clean food, stillness. That inner beast is severely weakened because of their strong will. But the thing is always there from birth to death. There’s no escaping it. Only taming it.
And about being eaten yes, literally. You’re aging every day, slowly decaying. What do you think is happening? Your life force is being drained. Emotionally, mentally, physically. You’re being fed on bit by bit until there’s nothing left
Thank you
Interesting perspective, I also think every tradition may talk about similar things differently.
I wonder about this issue of being consumed and/or eaten. It seems to me it's a matter of perspective.
Things are just consuming other things, just as "we" consume other things to exist. Everything is just changing from one form to another.
As many traditions say "we" can't even really say what "we" are. There is no real boundary where "we" start and end.
One perspective could be that we humans are a collection of sentient things, including these "flyers" who may often be the worst sides of "us", and drain us or sabotage the goals that other parts of "us" want to achieve.
It seems that your are well read on Islam. So what would be their antidote and practical solution toward this topic of all topics?
Yeah, Islam’s solution is basically a daily battle against the inner beast and outer negative forces. The Prophet said the greatest war is the war against the nafs. First, you’ve got the five daily prayers, they’re not random rituals. Each one is placed at a specific time to clear built-up energy and reset your state. And even the act of preparing with water (wudu) has its own spiritual effect. I once read Robert Bruce’s book on spiritual protection, and he couldn’t stop talking about how powerful water is energetically. Islam had that built in from the start.
Then there’s fasting, not just once a year for 30 days. Fasting twice a week, like on Mondays and Thursdays, is a powerful way to weaken the nafs and build control over your impulses.
But one of the most important things is daily dhikr. These are specific remembrance prayers that target negative forces directly. There’s even a whole surah about this, Surah Al-Nas. It’s literally a divine prayer asking for protection from the whispering of dark entities. You should check out the meaning of it sometime, it’s deep.
My mother swears by reading Surah Al-Nas 100 times a day. She says when she does it, everything flows better, like doors just open.
Also, just listening to Quran for 30 minutes to an hour or more a day really changes your energy. You can literally feel the shift. It’s like negative forces just can’t stay around. There is 5 minute Mufti Menk’s protection video where he recites the most powerful prayers, when you listen couple of times on repeat a weird peace, inner silence comes to you.
Like most religions, Islam is set up as a series of elaborate rituals and ego fuelling "self discipline" to 'fight' against an implacable enemy that will slurp you right up. It will give you the idea you are doing something when you are spinning in circles. Become unsavoury and get spat out.
Of course Eckhart Tolle or some old muslim guys wouldn't have the depth of knowledge to know exactly what these beings do or what they are...only a sorcerer would. These other systems might have a vague concept of the fliers (eg:jinn, demons, ego) and would only understand their affect on us in ordinary reality.
Which is precisely why those systems fall short in their solutions.
Great question. From my intuition, it is because most modern religions are forms of control and technically the archons/demiurge rule earth. Anything mainstream will never reveal the truth fully.
Gnosticism and shamanism (in the form of true secret knowledge) acknowledge that there is a force out there that seems to corrupt humans in the form of thoughts. That there is something that is inherently evil in the system that we live; if u define evil as harvesting some type of energy that we emit (the eagle when we die).
From my accounts, there are those who are not spiritual leaders, but have the ability to “see” other worldly things, whether in astral or in their waking life. These people describe flyers like black parasitic blobs that hover over humans and trigger negative thoughts, feeding off their host.
The Mind Virus is the over-arching umbrella that contains, subsumes, informs and underlies every form of self-and-other destruction that our species is acting out in our world. Through Mind Virus the Flyers drain our energy, vampirise our energy system like sucking a drink through a straw! - No energy, then disease, old age and death in “humaneros”!
In Castaneda’s final book, The Active Side of Infinity (1998), Don Juan challenges Castaneda to reconcile man’s intelligence, demonstrated in so many achievements, with “the stupidity of his systems of beliefs... the stupidity of his contradictory behaviour.” Don Juan relates this blatant contradiction in human intelligence to what he calls “the topic of topics,” “the most serious topic in sorcery.”
To the horrified astonishment of his apprentice, the elder sorcerer explains how the human mind has been infiltrated by an alien intelligence:
We have a predator energy that came from the depths of the cosmos and took over the rule of our lives.
Human beings are its prisoners.
The predator energy is our lord and master.
It has rendered us docile, helpless.
If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest.
If we want to act independently, it demands that we don’t do so...
They warned that the Flyers invade the human psyche, they intrude mentally and psychologically, although they may also confront us physically as well. Their main impact, however, is in our mental syntax, in our paradigms and beliefs.
This foreign installation exists in you and in every other human being.
The foreign installation pulls us out of our syntax. It deranges our indigenous abilities to organize the world according to the language proper to our species. The role of correct syntax in the sorcerer’s mastery of intent is one of the central factors in the later teachings of Don Juan.
Don Juan makes a number of statements pertinent to strategies against alien intrusion. He says that the sorcerers of ancient times “found out that if they taxed the flyers’ mind with inner silence, the Archontic Demonic foreign installation would flee, giving to any one of the practitioners involved in this maneouver the total certainty of the mind’s foreign origin.”
In other words, the realization that another mind can operate in our minds only becomes fully clear and certain when the foreign mind has been exposed and expelled.
We have records of different minds in one person.
Gurdjieff said the guy who says he will get up to meditate at 4am is not the same person who
throws the alarm clock out of the window!
Conclusion: they live! How about you go and force inner silence and then check it out for yourself?
If they live, how come they let us talk about them on this reddit? Why aren't we dead yet? Why was Castaneda allowed to talk about it?
Free will.
you say "allowed" like such things are 100% masters of all.
Because you're not going to do anything about it. If anything, complaining about the flyers give you a release valve to express your frustration and then continue your merry life ignoring their existence.
As for "why aren't we dead yet"... look to human's own farms and livestock raising and you will find your answer.
"There's nothing that you and I can do about it," don Juan said in a grave, sad voice. "All we can do is discipline ourselves to the point where they will not touch us. How can you ask your fellow men to go through those rigors of discipline? They'll laugh and make fun of you, and the more aggressive ones will beat the shit out of you. And not so much because they don't believe it. Down in the depths of every human being, there's an ancestral, visceral knowledge about the predators' existence."
This sorcerer's description is of course our ultimate nemesis; we don't want to believe that we are being raised for food. In this sense, naturally, the sorcerers' tradition is at total variance with any other kind of spiritual tradition. Sorcerers say, and believe me, not out of cynicism, that every ideal we deal with in terms of spiritual traditions, religions, etc, is a device concocted by the flyers to keep us in a lull. Imagine our disquietude upon examining, weighing and pondering this proposition.
im wondering, if sometimes paranoid schitzophrenia is rooted in this visceral knowledge about the flyers, while the mind makes some bullshit frame story up to narrate a full picture to the feeling of being followed and used.
Every ideal from spiritual traditions is some made-up bullshit frame story.
You think it is paranoid schizophrenics who have visceral knowledge, but Don Juan says everyone has it in their depths (aka visceral).
have you heared about partial implication?
And it starts... wanting to defend your own made-up bullshit frame story.
Also in the Chapter " Mud Shadows" Castaneda deals with the same question:
.... I made extensive anthropological inquiries into the subject of the flyers in other cultures, but I couldn't find any references to them anywhere. Don Juan seemed to be the only source on the matter.
......." Focus your attention on the fleeting shadows that you actually see"
....." I want to propose a weired idea to you"...
... " I have to stress that it's a weired idea that will find endless resistance in you"
....." The weired idea", he said slowly, measuring the effect of his words, " is that every human being on this earth seems to have exactly the same reactions, the same thoughts, the same feelings. They seem to respond in more or less the same way to the same stimuli. Those reactions seem to be sort of fogged up by the language they speak, but if we scrape that off, they are exactly the same reactions that besiege every being on Earth. I would like you to become curious about this, as a social scientist, of course, and see if you could formerly account for such a homogeity".
Thank you
Rumour has it that there are(or were?) no flyers in Ireland- can't remember the source tho.
But if that would be true, wouldn’t people of Ireland be really different from majority of people, and many of them would be sorcerers? Or is it some kind of joke I don’t know about 😅😅
I found the reference, p181 in Sorcerers Apprentice by Amy Wallace, chapter Energy Vampires
I thought it’s a joke about Irish people being redheads, which means they don't have soul, which means flyers can’t parasite on them 😂
Those islands ( Britain) have a very rich history of magic. I don't think Carlos meant it cynically.
No-no, when that came to my head, I didn't know it was in the books, so i'm not implying anything like that. nevermind and have a good day :)
Look up Loosh Farm
Make them your bitch. Torture them for a while. I'm currently digesting mine. They aren't leaving me, because I'm not letting them. I'm eating them. And I'll eat more of them if I can catch any.
Take another look into it. You can do a lot more than just make them leave. You can make them suffer. Some can devour them with enough energy.
Elaborate please
I am finding them helpful, actually. It's either them or a better side of my first attention that I wasn't aware of. What was once a very destructive voice, a voice of hatred and contempt, has become quite assistive and it's almost as if the roles have reversed. Most of the time, I am in control of the foreign mind. All I can tell you, is that something inside of me, is consuming something else. I assume it's the flyers. And my anger and confusion.... are gone. If your real question is "how", look no further than the books by Castaneda. It's all there. Discipline and inner silence. I've been saving my sexual energy for years. Celibate for 3 years now. Don Juan says to be a miser of sexual energy. I say be a miser of ALL of it. Like Yoda. Be chill for weeks at a time and do your work in the world in small bursts. And FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, STAY OUT OF DRAMA. Run from it, or burn it all down. You've got to start taking control of your life! Own it. Follow no man. Follow no voice. Not even your own. To hell with all of it. Once your done with all of this, whatever this is for you, the flyers will either leave, or be your food, or be your bitch.
This recalls to me how magicians in the western tradition would “bind” demons to do their bidding. These destructive forces become tamed and aid you in what you seek to accomplish.
I was assuming this as well. It's weird to be doing mystical things, miracles almost, and you have no clue how you are doing them. But letting my body do what it knew was right was essential. I had to take my "self" out of the equation. Even if it meant my death. I came to play the FULL game. And play I shall.
I echo that bewilderment in doing miracles and not knowing how they happened. Sometimes people ask me how I changed my situation so harshly and I don't know what to tell them. I intended change and my life changed. There was no strategical steps except the moment right in front of me and being aware for the next battle.
“Be a miser of all of it” Are you trying to say that one should’t engage in any kind of sexual activity? Also, what do you mean when you say “own your life”.
“Be a miser of all of it”
Are you trying to say that one should’t engage in any kind of sexual activity?
Also, what do you mean when you say “own your life”.
Post is now locked to prevent comments from veering into continued non-pragmatic distraction territory.