Here's those carvings at the base of the cliff Carlos potentially jumped from.
However, from the description in the books someone found, it now seems unlikely. Look at the comments and you'll see it.
Even though, it fits the storyline somewhat and a Mexican journalist who met with Carlos several times pointed it out in a video.
But it's 100% Olmec! So I guess it's worthy of taking a look.
The guy making this video is even pointing to where the sorcerer in the carving is holding a "baby WereJaguar"!
So those jade figurines aren't flukes.
The Olmecs were indeed obsessed with shapeshifting into a WereJaguar.
Cholita can most likely do a Calico Cat.
But thank goodness, nothing bigger so far.
I figured out how to use SK to summon anyone, just last night.
Now, when I say I figured it out, don't go Superman Effect on me.
If you figure out how to get to Las Vegas from your city, in terms of which roads to take, that doesn't mean you actually drove off in the car for 8 hours to get there!
I simply "realized" that you can do that.
That's how Silvio Manuel snatched La Gorda and Josefina into a shared dream.
Once I figured out how to do that, I started to wonder if Star Wars didn't have that too!
Like so many other things.
If you watch the latest, Ren and Rey can remote view each other, but later they learn that the evil Seth Lord was the one who connected them that way.
Anyway, I tried it out, and could see right through the wall.
And saw Cholita coming.
But puzzled. Not in Calico Cat form.
She seemed very confused as to why she could see me.
I'm using this video to learn how to orient my cartoon about that cliff, because Juann and Soren need an animation showing how you reach the 3rd attention.
And I wanted to preserve the knowledge of this Olmec site.
Here's a shot of my "mistake". Which I'll correct, after watching that YouTube video.
You can't be walking in that direction if you're going up to the top. That's the direction when you're coming down.
36 Comments
When I read the books, Tales of Power in particular, I always imagined them jumping into a chasm or canyon rather than the cliff of a mountain.
So far no one has found proof this is that cliff from the books.
It's just the best guess we have so far.
That’s the cliff!
Now that’s pretty exciting. Thank you for sharing.
We don't know for sure that's the cliff.
It's just the best anyone has found so far, and it's the right distance away, and it explains why Carlos was supposed to jump to the bottom and "look around".
However, it would be nice to have video of what the cliff part actually looks like, and whether there's anything to see if you jump off the cliff (where would you land?)
Here's a picture of the ledge.
The geography and location look pretty correct from the areas we know the lineage circulated and its Toltec. Was even thinking that one structure looks like a dome, like the Naguals dome? On the cliff are petroglyphs of humans ascending/descending and the Cave portal comes from here. If it’s not the site, the archaeological findings have similarities to CC’s work. If I jumped, I wouldn’t land, I’d aim for the cave portal and look for Naguals dome.
Cave portal. Was cut up, stolen, sold to private collector in US and recently returned.
Keep in mind, you don't really jump in your physical body!
I mean, your double can fly!
Jumping in your dream body is pretty much like jumping in a dream.
The trick there was, he woke up in Los Angeles when he did the jump after don Juan left.
Nestor woke up with Porfirio as I recall.
We jump with our double/dreaming/energy-bodies. Could we also call it flying on the wings of perception?
Ok you just corrected me, or enlightened me to a fact I missed in the books. CC was in his bed in LA when he jumped with the Genaro’s. I never thought about it like that, but it makes sense! Total sense and I missed it.
Knowing that we don’t physically jump with our monkey bodies, we still believe that DJM and lineage physically burned from within and entered infinity? Something only a lineage can do.
Calling it "flying on the wings of perception" makes it sound like a delusional Yogi sitting with his eyes closed, using Patanjali's aphorisms.
And Carlos wasn't in his bed when he jumped! He was in Mexico on that mountain top. For real.
You do it in your physical body! Or at least, that's what it seems like at the time.
We get to do that too.
You're just standing there as normal, maybe doing tensegrity, and realize you can do something impossible, so you do it. Such as leap through the ceiling, or out a window that materializes.
There's no crummy Yogi make believe going on with sorcery!
No experience of sitting down to think of how many donations you can get for your Buddhist Temple, if people see you smiling while you meditate.
You really do the magic we do.
The problem is, it's impossible. So what's actually going on, if you try to analyze it?
At the time Carlos was jumping with don Juan, he didn't even realize he was also up at the top, joking around with Genaro.
Read that story again.
In my case, I don't have Genaro around to make me aware of the fact that what I just did was most likely in my double.
So there's no way to tell what really happened.
Then of course, in the jumping story Carlos ended up in Los Angeles, waking up in bed. It wasn't possible for him to have traveled from that cliff to Los Angeles, in that short of a time.
He teleported his physical body!
Or there's also the story of Carlos teleporting to Arizona.
He thought it was just a dream, until he realized he really had traveled 1000 miles to Arizona.
Carol Tiggs was there, which is what attracted him to the location.
But on realizing he actually had teleported, he had to be tossed into a cold bath to keep him from dying of shock.
I've had to resort to cold baths a few times.
I know nothing about any of that yoga stuff. I know chicks dig hot yoga.
Flying on the wings of perception, does sound new age femmy….
The way I read your last reply confused me. No biggie. I just take what CC writes/says, as fact. Keep it simple.
Seeing anything is good during darkroom!
But, if you "expect" it the next time, you'll prevent it from appearing.
That's what you're learning.
First, how to get your energy body to come help you out. That's from silence alone, hopefully while using tensegrity to lure it.
But once you can do that, and cool stuff happens, the hard part begins.
Not interfering with what happens, based on anticipation of getting the same thing to happen, as happened the last time.
That's called, "cleaning your link to intent".
>That WereGuar is an IOB?
In the Olmec figurines and carvings I've seen, all but one are the sorcerer's own double.
In one, both are present, with the seer/ werejaguar man, riding on his Ally.
Which you can do! I used to make a flying carpet, using Fairy's help.
I didn't realize at the time, the carpet actually WAS Fairy, the ally.
You’ve seen me around for the last year. I usually have to sit silently in darkroom after doing tensegrity to see anything. Recently I’m seeing the puffs while doing tensegrity and maybe starting to enter dreaming awake more readily……I dunno, it takes time and lots of practice to get it all going, but it’s so worth it for those few seconds you get with the Nagual.
I'm curious what cues give you that location as the place of the jump?
It's the right distance according to the storyline, and it's an Olmec site that don Juan would have been familiar with.
If someone wanted to scour the storyline and workshop notes, there might be more evidence. Carlos could have specified it as the location, just talking to someone or a little lecture group.
But in fact we don't know for sure.
And this site is a 2 hour DRIVE, not a 2 hour hike. Except of course, hiking that far from a house in Mexico City might be a little nonsensical. So it's not inconceivable that they did in fact drive there.
Possibly someone will time travel and find out, but it would be better for us if they time traveled back to Dance Home, to recover the passes Cleargreen lost or corrupted.
It's AMAZING what seeing can do. It might sound crazy to talk about time traveling to watch Carlos shit his pants on that cliff, but once you're fully into seeing you realize it's totally possible.
You just don't care anymore, because there's more interesting stuff going on with your own situation, that you'd like to straighten out.
I'd rather see Cholita in her Calico Cat form, than watch Carlos soil himself.
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/ex9ghv/carlos_castaneda_in_the_words_of_jos%25C3%25A9_agust%25C3%25ADn/?share_id=8GBitBc_u--3wCwb3jUBs&utm_content=2&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1
Is there any text about what he said?
I wonder if there's a free AI to transcribe that video?
here are the subtitles. i made them with several tools ( download of video with yt-dlp, making wav file with ffmpeg, transcribing wav with riverside website, translating spanish subtitle to english with deepl ). in the subfolder "riverside transcription" there is the spanish transcription and english and german translation. the txt files there are the same as the srt files, but will be automatically opened with an app.
2012-05-03 Retrato hablado de Carlos Castaneda Parte 1.7z, 39kb file:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c9Z6wg-itutzTb6XZioRhCN6StvIt6fm/view?usp=share_link
here are the subtitles. this is my 2nd try. reddit said server error and wouldn't let me post the text of the subtitle file - i suppose it's too long. and my 1st answer with the subtitles was also gone.
( i made them with several tools. downloaded video with yt-dlp, made wav from video with ffmpeg, transcribed wav with riverside website, translated srt with deepsubtitles website )
2012-05-03 Retrato hablado de Carlos Castaneda Parte 1.7z:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c9Z6wg-itutzTb6XZioRhCN6StvIt6fm/view?usp=share_link
in folder "riverside transcription" there is the spanish subtitle file and english/german translation. txt files are just for convenience and are the same there as the srt-files. the link to the video starts at 4m38s - that would be subtitle number 44.
a section of the translated english subtitles which start at 4m38s:
".. We met in Chalcatzingo in the state of Morelos, in a place that state of Morelos in a place that could practically look like a cover of Carlos' books. Castaneda. José Agustín, we would like to talk with you about the meetings you had with Carlos Castaneda in this very place.
Well, yes, look, he knew Mexico remarkably well, didn't he? well, didn't he? Although the books and his areas of excellence are first Sonora, Arizona and then.Oaxaca, in fact it's clear that he knew the whole, the whole of the republic very well and the area around Mexico City. Mexico City, very specifically was demolishing them, were very dear to him. So he loved Tepoztlán, he loved the area of Xochicalco, the area of Cuautla, but very specifically here Chalcatzingo. Chalcatzingo here. So at times when he was in Mexico, he was in Mexico and he wanted to see us, he would talk to me on the phone, so he would say to me, I'm going to come to your area, sometimes he would go to my house, but sometimes, sometimes he would go to my house, but other times we would meet here, see each other right here. You meet up with Carlos Castaneda and you have the opportunity to directly, directly explore certain knowledge that are perhaps hinted at in the books.
Tell us a little bit about this world that you explore in the talk .."
3rd try - reddit has a bad day today.
es/en/de subtitles for the chalcatzingo video. 2012-05-03 Retrato hablado de Carlos Castaneda Parte 1.7z, 39kb file:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c9Z6wg-itutzTb6XZioRhCN6StvIt6fm/view?usp=share_link
beginning with section 44 of the subtitles in plain text (4m38s in video):
".. We met in Chalcatzingo in the state of Morelos, in a place that state of Morelos in a place that could practically look like a cover of Carlos' books. Castaneda. José Agustín, we would like to talk with you about the meetings you had with Carlos Castaneda in this very place.
Well, yes, look, he knew Mexico remarkably well, didn't he?well, didn't he? Although the books and his areas of excellence are first Sonora, Arizona and then.Oaxaca, in fact it's clear that he knew the whole, the whole of the republic very well and the area around Mexico City. Mexico City, very specifically was demolishing them, were very dear to him. So he loved Tepoztlán, he loved the area of Xochicalco, the area of Cuautla, but very specifically here Chalcatzingo. Chalcatzingo here. So at times when he was in Mexico, he was in Mexico and he wanted to see us, he would talk to me on the phone, so he would say to me, I'm going to come to your area, sometimes he would go to my house, but sometimes, sometimes he would go to my house, but other times we would meet here, see each other right here. You meet up with Carlos Castaneda and you have the opportunity to directly,
directly explore certain knowledge that are perhaps hinted at in the books.
Tell us a little bit about this world that you explore in the talk, .."
and subtitles with translations for the part 2 video. 2012-05-03 Retrato hablado de Carlos Castaneda Parte 2.7z, 47kb file:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CqRfnu1gBtUYAciTSTMiQqIFAWl8wn9S/view?usp=share_link
part2 video link:
Seems to be there now.
Part 2 video just pretty much comes out and says that's the spot, even showing a cover from one of the varieties of his book. Except there's a cave entry to this one. In the video, I see them sitting on a cliff, but didn't have time to watch the whole thing yet. They do seem to walk up the mountain a while.
i watched a drone video of chalcatzingo:
and i searched the castaneda books and i think the cliff they jumped off could be another place.
in "tales of power", chapter 13 "The Bubble of Perception", it says:
"I spent the day by myself at don Genaro's house. I slept most of the time. Don Juan came back
in the late afternoon and we hiked in complete silence to a nearby range of mountains. We
stopped at dusk and sat on the edge of a deep gorge until it was almost dark.
Then don Juan led me to another place close by; a monumental cliff with a sheer vertical rock
wall. The cliff was unnoticeable from the trail that led to it. Don Juan, however, had shown it
to me several times before. He had made me look over the edge and had told me that the whole
cliff was a place of power, especially the base of it, which was a canyon several hundred feet
down. Every time I had looked into it I had had a discomforting chill. The canyon was always
dark and menacing. .."
and from "the activce side of infinity", chapter 17 "Starting On The Definitive Journey, The Jump Into The Abyss":
"There was only one trail leading to the flat mesa. Once we were on the mesa itself, I realized
that it was not as extensive as it had appeared when 1 had looked at it from a distance. The
vegetation on the mesa was not different from the vegetation below: faded green woody shrubs
that had the ambiguous appearance of trees.
At first, I didn't see the chasm. It was only when don Juan led me to it that 1 became aware
that the mesa ended in a precipice; it wasn't really a mesa but merely the flat top of a good-sized
mountain. The mountain was round and eroded on its east and south faces; however, on part of its
west and north sides, it seemed to have been cut with a knife. From the edge of the precipice, I
was able to see the bottom of the ravine, perhaps six hundred feet below. It was covered with the
same woody shrubs that grew everywhere.
A whole row of small mountains to the south and to the north of that mountaintop gave the
clear impression that they had been part of a gigantic canyon, millions of years old, dug out by a
no longer existing river. The edges of that canyon had been erased by erosion. At certain points
they had been leveled with the ground. The only portion still intact was the area where I was
standing. .."
and the location of genaro's house was described differently in the books.
from "tales of power", chapter 1, "An Appointment With Knowledge":
"I had not seen don Juan for several months. It was the autumn of 1971. I had the certainty
that he was at don Genaro's house in central Mexico and made the necessary preparations for a
six- or seven-day drive to visit him. On the second day of my journey, however, on an impulse, I
stopped at don Juan's place in Sonora in the midafternoon. I parked my car and walked a short
distance to the house. To my surprise, I found him there. .."
"The Fire From Within", Foreword, page 4:
".. I would drive to don Genaro's house in a small town in the southern part of Mexico .."
So they did hike to the cliff, which rules out this location.
I'll just make sure not to imply this cliff isn't the location, in the cartoon.
I suppose that also means that the cliff on the cover of one of the books is somewhere else too, perhaps having the cave where Carlos moved his assemblage point to see the "lines of the world".
But these days there's google satellite view and google earth! People find potential mining sites all the time using those.
One of these days someone might use your descriptions and find that cliff afterall.
i tried google earth and terrain view in google maps, but mexico is big. and then i found more references to genaro's house in the books.
"Separate Reality", chapter 1, page 12:
".. We where sitting on a bench in the park of a small town in the mountainous area of central Mexico. I had absolutely no way of letting him know about my intention of paying him a visit, but I was certain I was going to find him, and I did. I waited only a short while in that town before don Juan came down from the mountains and I found him at the market, at the stand of one of his friends.
Don Juan told me, matter-of-factly, that I was there just in time to take him back to Sonora, and we sat in the park to wait for a friend of his, a Mazatec Indian with whom he lived. .."
"Separate Reality", chapter 6, page 49:
".. After we arrived in central Mexico it took us two days to walk from where I left my car to his friend's house, a little shack perched on the side of a mountain. Don Juan's friend was at the door, as if he had been waiting for us. I recognized him immediately. I had already made his acquaintance, although very briefly, when I brought my book to don Juan. I had not really looked at him at that time, except in a glancing fashion, so I had had the feeling he was as old as don Juan. As he stood at the door of his house, however, I noticed that he was definitely younger. He was perhaps in his early sixties. He was shorter than don Juan and slimmer, very dark and wiry. His hair was thick and graying and a bit long; it ran over his ears and forehead. His face was round and hard. A very prominent nose made him look like a bird of prey with small dark eyes.
He talked to don Juan first. Don Juan nodded affirmatively. They conversed briefly. They were not speaking Spanish so I did not understand what they were saying. Then don Genaro turned to me. .."
"Tales of power", chapter 1 "An Appointment With Knowledge", page 23:
".. "If you were not hiding around the house, where were you, don Genaro?" I asked.
"I was at my house," he said with great candor.
"In central Mexico?"
"Yes! It's the only house I've got." .."
"Tales of power", chapter 10 "Three Witnesses to The Nagual", page 119:
".. I had to wait only a few hours before don Juan "found" me in the market of a little town in the mountains of central Mexico. He greeted me with utmost affection and made a casual suggestion. He said that before we arrived at don Genaro's place, he would like to pay a visit to don Genaro's apprentices, Pablito and Nestor. .."
Part 1/2
Part 2/2
"The Second Ring of Power", Preface, page 3:
".. A flat, barren mountaintop on the western slopes of the Sierra Madre in central Mexico was the setting for my final meeting with don Juan and don Genaro and their other two apprentices, Pablito and Nestor. The solemnity and the scope of what took place there left no doubt in my mind that our apprenticeships had come to their concluding moment, and that I was indeed seeing don Juan and don Genaro for the last time. Toward the end we all said good-bye to one another, and then Pablito and I jumped together from the top of the mountain into an abyss. .."
"The Second Ring of Power", chapter 1 "The Transformation of Dona Soledad", page 4:
".. I had a sudden premonition that Pablito and Nestor were not home. My certainty was so profound that I stopped my car. I was at the place where the asphalt came to an abrupt end, and I wanted to reconsider whether or not to continue that day the long and difficult drive on the steep, coarse gravel road to their hometown in the mountains of central Mexico. .."
Fortunately, with AI on the rise, we'll eventually be able to get the AI to figure all this out for us.
Including looking at satellite maps for that cliff!
another potential hint for the whereabouts of the cliff.
from "The Fire From Within", chapter 13 "The Earth's Boost", page 98:
".. "Let's walk on the road to Oaxaca," don Juan said to me. "Genaro is waiting for us somewhere along the way."
His request took me by surprise. I had been waiting all day for him to continue his explanation. We left his house and walked in silence through the town to the unpaved highway.
..
He didn't say anything else until we met Genaro about a mile up the road. He was waiting for us, sitting on a rock by the side of the road.
He greeted me with great warmth. He said to me that we should climb up to the top of some
small rugged mountains covered with hardy vegetation. .."
It's a speculation, but genaro's house (genaro may have walked to don juans house in this description) could be somewhere in the wider area of don juan's house (not the one in sonora) which seems to be somewhere on an unpaved highway to oaxaca. so maybe the cliff is somewhere in the mountains around oaxaca.
AI will figure all this out better than we can, in a few years.
I won't use the cliff for the last scene. I'll just have them sitting at a campfire, and "Fairy" will explain the ways seers have extended their life over the millenia.
Which is to turn into a tree, occupy a dog, bury yourself and live on as a ghoul with your allies, stretch to an infinite line, go into the IOB world, escape that into a phantom city such as Tula, burn with the fire from within and go to that giant dome, and then finally whatever it is Carlos did.
Then we won't have to explain it to each angry new person who wants to go to heaven...
If anyone thinks of a method the old seers used that I forgot, let me know before the cartoon is done (this weekend most likely).
>stretch to an infinite line
The goal isn't to make a line, but a circle.
"Not at all. They say that they were very likable but extremely scary. They were more like unknown creatures. What makes mankind homogeneous is the fact that we are all luminous balls. And those sorcerers were no longer balls of energy but lines of energy that were trying to bend themselves into circles, which they couldn't quite make."
I believe that's a different topic.
Instead of what we do with Stellar hatch, they bent their shell into circles, to encompass more of the human range, presumably in competition with other old seers.
But the ones who stretched into infinite lines, are the ones said to periodically return to visit the earth.
I'm not sure what you could search for to see that.
Periodic didn't work for me.
"Something else" comes to mind. And "visits".
But that pdf is so larger, searching is really screwey.
They might also be the same as the old seers who disappeared for 200 or 400 years, and came back to find everything they knew was gone.
Remember, you can turn into a tree by moving your assemblage point way down, just like in Stellar Hatch.
So to live longer, maybe you have to stretch it, to make the "gap" stronger?
Here's the occurrences of periodical, which were interesting!
***
He further said that an unwitting downshift occurs periodically to every seer, but that such a downshift becomes less and less frequent as their assemblage points move farther toward the left. Every time it occurs, however, the power of a seer undergoing it diminishes considerably. It is a drawback that takes time and great effort to correct.
***
Don Juan responded that even in heightened awareness I thrived on repetition, and that periodically I would insist on boring him by describing my attacks of feeling worthless.
***
And I found it! You were right.
***
"Sorcerers' stories say that because they had succeeded in stretching their shapes, they had also succeeded in stretching the duration of their consciousness. So they are alive and conscious to this day. There are stories about their periodic appearances on the earth." "What do you think of all this yourself, don Juan?" "It is too bizarre for me. I want freedom. Freedom to retain my awareness and yet disappear into the vastness. In my personal opinion, those old sorcerers were extravagant, obsessive, capricious men who got pinned down by their own machinations. [* machination- a crafty and involved plot to achieve your (usually sinister) ends] "But don't let my personal feelings sway you. The old sorcerers' accomplishment is unparalleled. If nothing else, they proved to us that man's potentials are nothing to sneeze at."
i suspect that this description can rather not be regarded as a further method. from "the eagle's gift", chapter 1 "The Fixation of The Second Attention" page 8:
".. "How did don Juan explain those visions?" I asked her.
"He said that she no longer had defenses," Nestor said. "And because of that she could pick up that man's fixation, his second attention, which had been poured into that rock. When he was being killed he held on to the rock in order to gather all his concentration. The Nagual said that the man's power went out of his body into his rock; he knew what he was doing, he didn't want his enemies to benefit by devouring his flesh. The Nagual also said that the ones who killed him knew this, that's why they were eating him alive, to get whatever power was left. They must have buried the rock to avoid trouble. And la Gorda and I, like two idiots, found it and dug it up."
Boy, animating that one will be interesting...
Still picture, or try to convince an AI to draw that?
ChatGPT isn't allowed.
Grok did it.
So it'll be the first way to "live beyond death" in the cartoon.