Hello! I try not to bring up my struggles with inorganic beings that I've had since before I could speak. I try not to because after I learned what they were from Castaneda's books, I confronted one that harassed me since I was a baby, in my sleep, and I had a major mental breakdown when I was 25 years old. I was living in the woods with the purpose of recapitulate and to be isolated, in silence. I confronted it in my dreaming because it was curtailing my dreaming practice. It would grab me by my sides causing such painful electric shocks, I could see sparks, by my kidneys and sides. I was active in a forum back then in 2002 when this happened, "Tango Yahoo Group", by email. I was desperate asking for help and followed something I hadn't tried, to relax and let that force move through. I did. It took me flying through darkness, I thought it was space. I felt the cold wind. It also went wild going in and out my body through every inch. As days passed it only made it use my body energy more and more, I felt it was just feeding on me but would never interact in a meaningful manner, never answered my questions or anything productive. So I got fed up and started resisting again, and one day in my dreaming I kicked it like in martial arts. I felt strong and happy. Then I was back in my bed, in my body, asleep, paralyzed, and a green shield formed bubbling around me. The entity got very angry and tried to break the shield but it couldn't, it was like a horse galloping on the shield. Then finally it started attacking my head with flashes or electric rays, like white lasers. I got scared and woke up.
Since that day, I started feeling the Entity during my waking time. I had a couple months that I was going crazy, and also scared it was killing me. It was really painful, it would suffocate me, like a black smoke. It would squeeze my back mercilessly, and make all my body very weak. I tried everything, every advice. Nothing worked. Until one day when I was being suffocated at the last minute when I thought I was gonna die, I let go and it suddenly detached from me. I experienced a couple hours of an undescribable bliss, breathing so deep like never before. I was also seeing energy behind trees and fungus, I could see lines moving from my feet to surroundings, and it felt as if I was walking on boards on water. That entity re-attached and it went on and off for weeks but when it was attacking me it wasn't as bad anymore. I finally left the woods, moved to the city, and was almost homeless in a new country, and I had to struggle to survive (in the Tonal). That entity, I felt like it's been still there but just hiding. It doesn't help me at all, it's like a leech. The last 15 years I became over indulgent with alcohol and sex. In my worst moments, I would have nightmares where that being brought other beings and attacked me, usually followed by real life dangerous situations, accidents or physical altercations with people.
Since a couple years ago I decided it's time to resume my practice and stop indulging. It's been an uphill battle because of the habits I let grow. But I'm doing better little by little (I mention all this because I think my tonal is affecting my second attention).
Yesterday I forced silence pretty much the whole day, and when I went to bed, I got into a dream; by the way, I cannot do the dreaming exercises anymore, I used to 20 years ago, but now I can only become aware that I'm asleep in a dream, and usually surrounded by yellow dim energy. I think I'm around inorganic beings there. I can smell like a burnt wood or rubber, it's very foul. And sometimes a deformed monster tries to lure me into sex. Last night in my dream I was in a scene like a social place, a bar, and near two people talking. One of them I could feel was an IB. He was angry at me and told me he was going to kill me. I asked him why but then it was a blurr and I woke up.
Question is: should I worry about this threat? Or is this more part of the fantasy of the dream, maybe the entity interacting with emotions? I'm worried it might be an actual warning that it will affect my behavior in some way to put me in a deadly situation with someone or an accident, I don't know if that's paranoid. I would appreciate any insights from this community.
32 Comments
Assuming you’re biologically male, why are you only talking about your sleeping dreams without any mention of 4 Gates Dreaming maneuvers such as finding your hands or rubbing them together etc.?
You’re not consistently bringing your tonal rationality into your dreams, which is why you feel like you have no control.
Everyone has periodic bouts of lucidity in dreams. But almost never does anything pragmatic come from those fleeting moments.
This is very difficult for men (not so for women who can do Womb Dreamimg) to do , and requires so much obsession, energy, time and effort that we do not even recommend trying from the starting/beginner phases (where we can’t reliably move our assemblage points).
Do your dreaming awake, during darkroom (Tensegrity in the dark, while internally (mentally) silent), and then merge into sleeping dreaming afterward, with that energy in hand.
No I don't even try, I just become aware of being asleep at times, and usually feel inorganic energy. I try often to look at my hands but then I lose focus, I guess I don't have the energy. So I'm not becoming lucid on purpose, if just happens and when it does, I feel surrounded by entities and I try to resist them. It causes me some revulsion and fear. There's this weird smell and they seem to want to get my the energy.
But my question today was if the last dream when I was semi-lucid, the inorganic being telling me he was gonna kill me, if I should take that seriously? Can they affect me in my waking time, manipulate my circumstances and do that? Or should I not worry about this at all?
I appreciate your attention to this.
Why would they be interested in what happens in our matter world, which is too far removed from their existence? Other than playing around with lightweight physical objects in order to get our attention and interaction.
Which is what they are actually after.
And how could they interact with us if we’re dead?
I don't know. I thought they could feed off your energy when you die, and also that we go to their realm after death. I don't know. It's stuff I have read over the years from workshop notes from others.
And how they would kill someone? Again, I don't know, and don't want to believe it, but I've read they could manipulate other people and yourself to create a conflict that could end up in serious injury or death. If this is not a worry for my situation, then I need to revise my beliefs around the matter. I don't claim to know either way.
>feed off your energy when you die
Not unless you reside in one of their realms, via expressed permission, which you’re not going to be in if you can’t move your assemblage point
>how would they kill someone…manipulate…conflict
By scaring to death. But that’s actually on you, not them, as a **reaction**; and you can very much control your reactions, with training.
They are largely clueless about how we live, on the particulars, so they’ll simply feed you more of the same (perceptually) if that’s what you’re reacting to the most.
>how can you tell if it's an IB and not a flyer?
Flyers (*if we’re going to take that at face value*) are IOB’s (IB’s) in the same way that Ostriches and Hummingbirds are both birds. Both inorganic. But flyers don’t interact. They don’t need to. They’ve already won by “installing their mind.”
Free yourself from that for a few moments by shifting your assemblage point, and then for more and more moments over time (with training), and they leave.
Then you can most certainly tell the difference, up here:
Wow, thanks!!! I really, really need to deconstruct since serious misconceptions I built up. I have work to do. And your conclusion: inner silence. That means practice. I'm so glad I posted here at the risk of exposing myself and also I'm not looking for pity or attention, and don't wanna give that impression. All replies here are incredibly helpful. 🙏
Actualy, Robert Monroe writes in his first book how fliers had a form of conversation with him. He did not understand it that way because of the ignorance of his (theirs) mind, i did not understand it at that moment for the same reason.
After reading Castaneda last (Active Side) I understood Monro had a unique moment -personal interaction with an individual of their species!
Actualy he describes how the flyer laughed because he beg it to leave...a proof it was there!
Oh and I almost missed your last sentence. I really appreciate it, I think that answers my question. It's just my fears being reflected in an ordinary dream. I appreciate it, really. If your have anything else to tell me, I'm all ears. Basically I have built up some ideas about inorganic beings through the years, from third parties. I did question it at first, but I always wondered "what if they're right"...
Thanks.
From the Jadey chat archives, the idea about finding your hands in your dreams is not to "become lucid", it's about maintaining lucidity *into* your sleep. Never losing it.
I question how you can know that what you're seeing is an "IOB" who wants to "kill you". How would you distinguish that from a "regular" nightmare? I don't think you are able to. You're not the first person to have frightening nightmares.
Anyway if you're able to lucid dream you could tell them to piss off, or fight them, or better yet - just change to something more pleasant? If you were able to maintain your consciousness into your sleep you might never need to have such nightmares. Or maybe they'll get worse, idk. More interesting than dreaming about dumb shit from a boring life.
If you cannot do the dreaming exercises because of a lack of energy, then I would focus on collecting sunlight glitter and practicing darkroom, as well as recapitulation before bed. Acquire energy so that you can control your dreaming attention better. Also, the mood you are in before you go to bed is very important. If you are fearful, you are more likely to have a nightmare. This isn't Castaneda, but I would set intentions before bed. For example: "I will not react or be afraid of anything. If I dislike what I am seeing, I will simply change the dream." You could also try replacing fear with another emotion, such as affection. They respond to that. BTW, I have received death threats from mine as well... it ended up being nothing.
Thanks a lot!! This does help. I'm not trying to get into dreaming at the moment. I am intending to start from scratch, and I'm recapitulating about an hour 5 days a week. Will build up to more in the future, but it's what I can make myself do for now. Same with Tensegrity. I have to be honest, I haven't yet started darkroom, but I do often work on quieting the mind
You can use The Phase by Mihail Raduga if doing passes and all warrior staff is too much as for you. I think in english is added title The Matrix is Real and How to Break It.
Also the same author (Russian) has a special book Out Of Body for Lazy Ones but I am not sure this one is available in English
www.remspace.net is that guy
Of course Bob Monroe and his hemi-sinc staff does some results no guarantee but sometimes
www.monroeinstitute.com
CIA tried some of his works for remote spying in any case it sounds not total crap
Comparatively my life and practice is boring….
😂 trust me, I wish. Recently I got good advice, as I'm intending to quit my indulging in some habits, that it's good to learn to embrace boredom. If you think about it, inner silence is so difficult because it will be very boring for a good while. It's more exciting to think even when it's painful.
Inner silence isn’t boring at all. In fact, it’s exciting, everything changes when you learn to turn off the internal dialogue, and you want it more for longer.
Yes but that's only when you have succeeded for more than a few seconds. I still struggle a lot to get any silence after all these years. It seems boring, I'm not saying it is. It's just hard practice and a struggle. It's easier to turn on the TV, or go out and party, etc. If you have an established discipline you are really on a good path. But it requires patience and for people like me that can feel as boring or just difficult t maintain. I've had extraordinary experiences in my life from inner silence, but they're very few and scattered. This path is indeed a struggle for some (like me). Unfortunately fear is the only thing that pushes me to do anything. I get easily bored when I don't get results. Not on purpose, it's how I am, which is not good. That's why I'm really trying to convince myself to recapitulate even a bit, little by little. I'm convinced this is the key to everything, but takes time and disciple.
I would’ve thought with your IOB encounters you’d be practicing inner silence and tensegrity to control your interactions with them.
No, it got out of hand when I was in the forest, 23 years ago and I left to the city and didn't keep up with the practice. At first I had the excuse that I was almost homeless, trying to get a job, etc. But after a couple years I was in a estable situation and I decided to indulge instead, on party, sex, alcohol. It really backfired and I wasted 15 years. I'm trying to resume practice now, and it's not easy plus I have anxiety, but I'm not giving up.
Tell them to go ahead and kill you, so you can report back here what happens.
But the problem is, you won't be able to do that.
If that worries you, instead tell them to cover you in green slime.
You won't be able to do that either.
So there's pretty much nothing you can do about this.
And it is possible to escape from the allies inside a dream.
There's endless techniques for it.
Such as "zooming".
Thank you Dan. I have accumulated useless beliefs about this through the years, from third parties and I'm questioning all that now. I have today struggled with anxiety my whole life so this is a bad combination. I get from your answer this is not a real but unfounded.
Basically if you could die from inorganic beings inside dreams, we'd all know about it.
Instead of telling you that the monster under the bed is not real, your mom would be terrified if you were seeing those.
No no, I wasn't worried about being killed in dreams though; I meant, to ask if a IB could manipulate people or circumstances in the Tonal, the "real" physical world of waking life, not in dreams. Years ago I read something that they could and were interested in doing so and could absorb your energy at the moment of death. It said they pretty much manipulate serial killers (just an example) to inflict pain and fear in their victims, which the IB's could also feed off. And then from their death. The killer also takes some of that energy, and then finally he himself gets offed later on for the IB's to collect all of it. I read this some time ago, and I related it to thinking then they could also affect us in different ways. It was also said that people are most vulnerable to them when very drunk or high.
I really don't know. But it sounds really scary. And it doesn't limit to serial killers, the point is they could affect anyone by creating such conduct that may lead to death.
Again, I think this might be wrong or misunderstood. And I generated a paranoia about it. I'm on the way to deconstruct if as it hasn't really helped me at all.
Of course!
That's why you're in there.
I was blackmailed by the IOBs...
They pulled me into their world, in broad daylight, while I was relaxing in front of my hotel in Bangkok.
And said they'd do it over and over again, if I didn't obey them.
A couple of weeks before that, they were opening portals in my hotel room that were so vivid, I had to run to the bathtub or die of fright.
One of them chased me through the hotel hallways!
But you knew all this, if you read the books.
That's how the linaged used them. To make apprentices obey.
And apparently, if your sorcery teacher said they could snatch his apprentice, they did.
I just doubt they become interested in random people, or we'd also all know about that.
It would be on the news nightly.
"New man snatched by inorganic beings! News at 11."
The point is if they instigate "normal" situations to get someone killed; like get into a person who is high or mentally vulnerable, and push them to attack another one, like a person who wants to practice, or a person who resists their influence, or just to feed. It doesn't need to be a ghost, just them using people against each other... is this possible?
They don’t instigate those behaviors or at least not in the way we normally interpret it.
They feed off the energy in our emotions, especially fear. The problem is being trapped by fear. That drives the behaviors you mentioned.
You're giving them human motivations.
Look at it like this.
The IOBs like to keep pets.
Us.
The same way we keep cats.
Like this "Rusty Spotted" wild cat. Smaller than a large cup of coffee.
Doesn't that make you want to go out and get one???
That's how the IOBs see us. Except, they're so alien they don't understand us at all.
So they try to get us to dance for them.
By threatening to poke us with sticks.
Or by offering us treats. Or showing us a fun cat video on our cellphone.
They don't have the kind of motivations you're ascribing to them.
That's a mythical being, such as a Jinn or a demon.
Both of those were made up by humans, for stealing money from humans.
You've fallen for the con.
>Doesn't that make you want to go out and get one???
kinda, yeah
I looked into it for Cholita, but they soon die in captivity...
It's impossible to profit from them financially (they aren't even good to eat due to not enough flesh), which is why they're still somewhat common all over India.
I’m sorry but I hollered at the news graphic of “spirits snatch man” 😂😂😂
Maybe a possibility of not energy producing entityes (sprites) generated by your inner voice (flyers mind) is one of deserving attention possibilities or at least i allow myself to suggest that.
It happens very often with persons that evolved dreaming attention and dreaming body but do not practice the passes.
Nothing you describe as experience feels real toltec way energy perception, so it is not totaly impossible that your flyer makes the majority of all these experiences.
There is a site of wordly perspective conscious dreamers that work in inside-brain only theory and in fact they dont accept Carlos worldview but maybe inner sourced perception is possible in a case no passes-dreamer?
www.remspace.net
you choose to give this perspective a try or not, but keep in mind they assume Castaneda fake.
Our tonal greatly influences how we interpret experiences from the second attention. From your descriptions, I sense that your mind is overwhelmed—caught in the grip of paranoid ideas it's formed about inorganic beings. It would be helpful to let go completely of your current beliefs about them and read here how we perceive these entities, so you can begin to build a new, healthier understanding.
Also, it's important to stop engaging with your ordinary dreams. They're merely projections of your subconscious—so much so that what you’re perceiving might not even be inorganic beings at all, but something your mind has constructed to appear that way. I'm saying this because you’re experiencing a lot of fear and paranoia in your waking state, which can easily produce adrenaline-charged dreams. You've been carrying this fear for many years, but the good news is that you can stop feeding it. You can face it, redirect it, and it will stop overwhelming you.
This change begins in your waking life, by working with yourself—cutting off paranoid thoughts before they grow too powerful. I believe it would be incredibly helpful to do a full recapitulation of all these experiences, along with the beliefs and fears that come with them.
If you want to begin any practices, I suggest doing only darkroom sessions focused on inner silence and tensegrity, followed by inner silence with gazing.
By shifting your focus away from paranoid thoughts and fear, and toward the exploration of what truly happens when you enter the second attention through active practice, a new world of perception will open up to you. The inorganic beings will not hesitate to engage—appropriately. After all, they are powerful allies in our journey through the second attention.
Thank you, thank you!! 🙏
You don't know how important your reply is. I suspected this, the need to undo some very heavy unhealthy assumptions I have. I'm focusing on recapitulation but "can't" focus more than an hour per day, which I think is a good start. I should start exploring the dark room practice, I have been postponing.
One clarification: I believe I did experience some very strange "paranormal" (let's not get hung up on this word) stuff back 23 years ago in the woods. But that stuff, whatever it was is gone for the most part. Even if IB is involved at all now, I'm aware it's mostly a response to my mental/emotional disfuncional state. Your words help confirm it and encourages.