ehi, for the lovers of knowledge.
Pitagoreans in south of Italy centuries ago, before it was misunderstood to be the cradle of rationality, where a lineage that was practicing the same as something you may recognize. Two of their main technique: silence and daily recap. it is said that Pitagora could see all his past life in one breath, does it remind of you somebody?
let me clarify one thing: by past lives they do not mean the same "person". In fact there is a distinction with what dies for good each life (the personality, the ego, the identification in something, the inventory, the idea of one self, call it the way you want) and the "energy" one really is.
anyway, their goal was also to clean the link with intent and stay in "harmony" as much as possible. it is the same...
also, they had contact with siberian steppe/mongolian shamans, it is proved.. I think Kingsley researched that most of it comes from there but I am not sure
have a look if curiuos and do not know where to start
I am sharing this for the purpose of knowledge but remember, it is not advised to mix stuff. moreover, there is no shortcut. starting to research pitagora instead of doing actual work is not gonna bring you anywhere, and not faste
have good practice, cheers
31 Comments
Im not aware of Pitagora more than the math formulas. Interesting if what you say was for real. From Castaneda its easier to judge since its alot more fresh.
But gotta say that in my case I had to mix a bit even tho mostly used practices and structure of Castanedas lineage, the power itself will guide these things.
I even see that many try to idealise only one path which sadly cuts the potential overall....
For example advaita is a very good way of "catching" the flyers mind and stopping it eventually, why not if it allows you to stop the internal dialog and so on.
i just said "it is advised not to mix" because that is general advice in all traditions I stumbled upon. and in the end to me it is seems to be only one truth, whenever one may frame it (yes, some traditions may lose something or add to many "stories" over time)
Anyway it is for real.. this comes from the most capable translator from the direct texts :) this empedocle for example who was a pitagorean says clearly he was a shaman and so forth, anyway, whoever is interested can search for him/herself
in this case it has been the closest tradition I have seen in terms of technique to the "toltec" one. which is the "driest" of all as far as I happen to know so far
curious about advaita will look for it. thanks
To be honest I dont know if its good or bad to mix, I lay on power to tell. Just when first time I stopped the world I had to, basically a little, but only then I managed to do it which demonstrates the words Don Juan said: If theres no teacher then the spirit itself will do.(of course if we can get rid of the mondane crap to be able to hear it)
Of course if you have a teacher and a really good structured tradition that worked for ages then no problem but as me, many of us have to do it going chaotic paths sometimes.
If its for real then definetly interesting!
Have you managed to reach silent knowledge so that you can stop the world?
because stopping the world happens when you have absolute silence..
Sure, as you said, otherwise it would not had happened.
The problem is that I got scared to death when everything collapsed and inroganic beings tried to contact and so on. And being silent isn't that cool when it srays for long, the tonal tries to kill itself automaticly...it doesnt allow much the nagual to be the "boss". But at first its something you cant miss or confuse with something else.
Every time there’s real progress, we know a wave of counter-intent and crap follows…
Having suicidal thoughts, forcing the internal dialogue for a second, or interacting with IOBs is not “stop the world”.
If anyone is interested in “learning” before “teaching”, it will be very useful to study the J Curve diagram:
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/mtfwhb/even_better_j_curve_diagram/
And everything about bad players:
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/wiki/bad_players/
I was stopping the world for about 2 weeks, and went further, you can imagine what was the life about in this state, of course if you ever have experienced it you'll understand.
But of course, I just found about the J curve and if I havent known about it earlier for sure I never stopped the world if you say, only you guys from this forum can confirm that, only you.
Even Castaneda did it without passing all these gates, thats totally normal. Its god to have a structure but sometimes it may make things longer.
Instead of sharing experiences on this forum I have to prove something to you guys, its annoyng...
As I dont really try to make any of you to believe it or not, after being beyond many times its just a joke to sit and text alot just for the sake of talking with unknown characters about such simple stuff.
Yes, like for example, stopping the world, this is a possibility, it's really hard to imagine this is possible.
I have seen similar things like this in my room, with my eyes open and I've never done any drugs besides pot. If you can't do this type of stuff with your eyes open, you are just getting started.
In my case I could stay there for good while in real world and without drugs of course. The inorganic beings were always close and trying to have a deal. Eventually after days like this I had to start the internal dialog again and wasnt that easy, I had to really work hard to activate it again.
But thats all not too practic for me, the most important is that I tried to enhance seeing, first from the glimses of those lines and then further. Other stuff possible was for example to allow regular people I was talking to also hear the inorganics, but unfortunately just scared the daylight of them.
Also tried changing object or my own appearance for example making my hair purple and got confirmation from others that is really changed - of course they asked why tf I dyed my hair with such a stupid color))
And that was 10 years ago. I think many people cant believe that others have done stuff, its just too unusual. So thats normal, the only thing that matter is our own experience and if we can learn from others then we should use that for sure.
Then you are wasting your time still talking about other methods, Don Juan already told you that mysticism can move the assemblage point, so there is absolutely nothing to it. No one here is concerned with good feelings, because that can be done simply by hitting the snooze button on your alarm clock. All you've been doing is moving your assemblage point, it's easy to do, it just takes work.
"It is," he assured me. "This is another of the sorcerers' contradictions: it's very difficult and yet it's the simplest thing in the world. I've told you already that a high fever could move the assemblage point. Hunger or fear or love or hate could do it; mysticism too, and also unbending intent, which is the preferred method of sorcerers."
Silence isn’t an accomplishment you hang on a wall — it’s a house you learn to live in. If you’ve lived there wouldnt be much talking whats true or not - doesnt matter if you achieve it throught doctrines or just if someone hit you on the head with a slipper.
Funny thing: you can move an assemblage point with fever, hunger or love, sure — but doing it and staying there without being eaten by your tonal is a different sport. If it were just “work,” gyms would be full of sorcerers and Reddit would be a temple.
Did you skip the part where I mentioned mysticism as being equivalent to hunger and fever? I'm not interested in other methods and neither should you be, at least if you want to call yourself a sorcerer. The simple fact of the matter is that everyone is given a chance for a chance, but only the sorcerers went all the way.
Mixing methods is a practical reality for many of us; that’s not the point. The point is this: ‘stopping the world’ won’t fix an unshaken ego. I know Castaneda’s texts well and have practiced widely — and experience shows the first job after any breakthrough is to dismantle your need to be admired. Until that’s handled, declarations about who’s ‘gone all the way’ read as theater.
And definetly dont want to call myself a sorcerer, dont care much about titles.
Mixing methods is not a practical reality, you only tell yourself it is a practical reality, because you are plagued by the fliers' mind still. You can simply set down your inventory about mixing methods being a practical reality.
"This sorcerer's description is of course our ultimate nemesis; we don't want to believe that we are being raised for food. In this sense, naturally, the sorcerers' tradition is at total variance with any other kind of spiritual tradition. Sorcerers say, and believe me, not out of cynicism, that every ideal we deal with in terms of spiritual traditions, religions, etc, is a device concocted by the flyers to keep us in a lull. Imagine our disquietude upon examining, weighing and pondering this proposition."
You say ‘set down your inventory’ — neat sentence. Meanwhile the people actually staying in the house of silence don’t spend mornings rehearsing slogans. If you truly left the fliers’ playbook, applause wouldn’t be your habit. When theres a problem with self importance not much is left to talk about practices.(mixed or not)
But I don't spend mornings rehearsing slogans, I just laugh at your idea that "mixing methods is a practical reality" when it is not.
If laughing at others is your method, fine. My method is silence and work. Nothing to prove, nothing to win.
Yes, I laugh at a petty tyrant :) Don Juan also laughed a lot because he liked to laugh. All I say is that you don't have to make it a practical reality, you simply choose to, and choices have consequences.
Fine, you caught me — I was the petty tyrant all along, just playing here for sport. The real joke is imagining Don Juan wasting even one second on a forum where half of us can’t type three lines without trying to prove we’re sorcerers. That’s the funniest thing of all.
But isn't it basic? You simply feel attacked over the idea that "mixing ideas is a practical reality" which is a product of the fliers' mind. Your disquietude has already jumped out and made you want to take a piss on this forum, where people do focus on silence and work.
Interesting; another clearly similar knowledge was divulged by Gurdjieff 50 years before Castaneda did, and claimed to have learned it from a middle eastern dervish community. To me and just speculating, it seems to be related to the gnosticism of the early Christians, which in turn comes from the Neoplatonist and Pitágoras schools. But he did find other related teachings across the east, though he was very secretive about the true location and identity of his sources. I also wonder if the Siberian shamanism is related since he was in that area.
I know a community that practices from him and Casteanedas too, and those guys can dream easily for example which means this knowledge was spread all over the world. Don Juan said too that there was a simbiosys between east and their nativce american knowledge long time ago, so all this makes sense.
And if im not mkstaken also Don Juan mentioned Siberia as origin?
Yes, as I remember. Or at least as a fusion of siberian teachings and theirs.
It looks like god awful mental masturbation to me.
Explain what magic they did, other than meditative effects.
ChatGPT couldn't come up with any.
It was just the greek mathematician who first spread the idea of reincarnation, into that community of philosophers.
Turns out pythagoras never wrote anything... All we know about him, is from others.
There's no magic down that rabbit hole.
Do more research on it.
However, we can at least trust that the idea of reincarnation, among those philosophers, came about within 100 years of the first claims for Hinduism believing that.
The problem is there's no old manuscripts of the Upanishads. Which are what predates the greek concept of it.
There's only medieval upanishad copies.
So any claim that reincarnation is mentioned in hindu literature before Pythagoras started claiming he could see past lives, is very dubious.
Hindus have a habit of lying about the past to make their system seem more cool.
Look at Tonelli and Kingsley. Shamans like Parmenide, Eraclito and Empedocle left something written. ChatGPT can help only with what it is fed and at school they teach differently about this. The mainstream translation of them does not tell what they were saying. Anyway, I am not gonna argue on this, it does not matter. The technique used there are same and that is fascinating
Forgot to add: it is mentiones the ability to control the weather, travel with the double and "bilocation"
:)) magic is true and is human so I find it quite nirmal and re assuring to find it everywhere in the world especially in the past
Totally agree. Many things are similar in other cultures and places. Dzogchen for example is very good to get rid of the internal dialog. We as pity people try to make something private and put a label on it as the only and unique but thats just a way to cut our potrential and wide view on the same subject.
Outside there are plenty of forums to promote shamanism. And as wonderful as the local shamans may seem to you, the shamanic and meditative experience only happen around the green station in the J Curve, far from the final goal… You can check it for yourselves if you work hard and give up the chest-beating:
J Curve diagram: https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/mtfwhb/even_better_j_curve_diagram/
This place is full of instructions on the practice of Sorcery: https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/yzfldm/the_laziness_club/
There are also funny comments about drugged shamans: https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/z0xluk/comment/ix95atm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Were not talking about shamanism, it would be a waste of time. Dzogchen can bring you beyound stopping the world faster. Its just a thing you do as you walk or something usual for a sorcerer, not the achievement of the life...
But I get it, you guys here dont even google these things even before commenting and thats why Im closing the topic of them now. Well discuss only the long way of the J curve. Thanks