Although i have to admit first things first i havent been practicing darkroom regulary i did a couple of times and saw puffs, faces, shadows and flickering light either in form of flashing circle on my peripheral vision or even flashing yellow or purple puffs which move and are trackable with my sight in darkness i also try to do it during day time with similar but of course no where near as intense effects (yet), i know i have a long road a head with this and im not pretending or faking i only recently got introduced to castanedas teachings it has been only a couple of month yet im familiar with alot of the basis of these teachings due to my grandfather who was deep into meditation and accessing meditative states and over all was a spiritiual being i would say although he wasnt aware of don juans teachings he taught me alot of similar things regarding the stalking of ones self and the enemies ie fear, power, clarity. However nobodies perfect and clearly not even my grandpa whom i look up to even now after his passing which makes me think about dogmatic views of which brings me to my main question. Is the ultimate form of these practices inner silence which in many ways bypasses all form of dogmatic practices or is there more to it than just that im sorry if something didnt make sense im still trying to make sense of it all.
Peace.
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As far as if there is more to it….well, there’s more than one reason why there are 20 books and publications!
Can you please name some of the lesser known publications perhaps by someone other than taisha and carlos, is there any newer material to read from??
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/wiki/booklist/
Please make use of the rest of the wiki ,as well.
Many thanks🙏
I would recommend spending time in the wilderness if you have the possibility, under the following conditions:
- completely alone
- mimimum 3 days , 2 nights. More if you can manage.
Can you point to anyone who ever learned any actual sorcery this way?
Seems like you'd be better off to get to work tonight, following the instructions in this subreddit, instead of finding an excuse to put it off or do something else.
Unfortunately, some of the worst fakers around are monks who took a "vow of silence" and walk around in robes all day, pretending they're being holy.
They never get anywhere doing that. Whether you're alone or with others, if your internal dialogue is raging away, you're stuck to this reality.
"Silence (full removal of the internal dialogue) is 100% of the technique."
Indeed.
And that is induced by being alone in nature.
Nope. That's not a method for achieving silence.
If it were, we'd have pockets of people somewhere in the world, who aren't total idiots like the rest of humanity.
But anywhere you look, everyone has been stripped of real magical knowledge.
Carlos used to comment on that, giving the example of an Island isolated from everyone else.
Asking, why wouldn't there be at least one of those, where everyone was a sorcerer?!
But there isn't. Not a single one.
Anyway, you seem to be making up stuff.
Why???
Is it because you believe this place is a fake, like everywhere else?
Well... it's NOT.
No one in here makes money doing this, no one has a book or videos for sale, there's no meetings, and no "group" other than just people who practice and share results in here.
It's the bare minimum.
I would have hoped you'd notice that. How unusual this place is.
I doubt you could point to anything even slightly similar, where there's real magic, in your face, daily, and no "workshops" to take.
No "institute" to give money to.
What do you suppose would happen to this place, if we let people accumulate (we've been here 6 years), who make up whatever they like, to get attention for themselves?
We've gotten an average of 3 per week, for the last 6 years.
We'd be unable to help anyone at all. The people who have actual knowledge, would go elsewhere.
Meanwhile, there are 6 other castaneda subreddits where you can make up stuff. How did you end up in this one?
Unfortunately, those all died due to no real magic happening.
But there's also the Cleargreen discussion group, where you can pretend to your heart's content.
And we have a discord chat, created by the women who thought it was just too hostile in here, until they created the discord chat and saw it get totally out of control, until they're afraid to read in there for fear their eyes will fall out.
If you actually want to learn what you see in the posts in here, this is the place!
But if you want to pretend, it is NOT the place for you.
The mods will quickly ban you.
I'm not a mod by the way, it's against the rules I have. I'm here by blackmail.
But the good mods keep things on track for learning and will ban new people fairly quickly if they are obviously not here to learn.
Two last week I believe...
It's not a matter of being mean, or even strict.
It's survival!
Thank you for all the help and information i watched some of ur videos and already subscribed to ur channel like 2 weeks ago i will upload if i have a new experience or whatever progress that would be worth uploading, thanks to all!! Cheers.
P.s: i never had reddit this community plus what i learned from carlos and don juan is the reason i created an account
After surving the bear….New achievement unlocked: Master Wizard with really real wizardry!
What’s that gonna do?
Hey new person. Don’t read the books, don’t learn tensegrity.
Wander around the woods for 3 days and 2 nights you’ll come out a Master Sorcerer….. 😂😂😂
Let’s not even talk about bonfire accidents...
But a woods wizard would use his magic wand and poof! Bonfire is out.
I’m pretty you get gifted the magic wand on day2 from the elementals.
No wands!
You seem far too talented for being this new.
Which worries me that you're visualizing results, using the bad habits you picked up from your meditation experiences.
And I don't hear you doing any tensegrity, so frankly, it can't be working the way you say.
Unless there's some drugs (even in the past if they were strong ones), or schizophrenia.
No insult intended on the schizophrenia.
The most powerful sorcerers are usually schizophrenic women.
We don't know much about schizophrenic men yet.
But to answer your question, yes.
Silence (full removal of the internal dialogue) is 100% of the technique.
It's ALL you need.
Unfortunately, people lie to themselves about that. And thus, all the techniques we seem to have.
The truth about how nearly everyone will lie to themselves means no Yogi, no Buddhist Master, nor anyone practicing any other form of "meditation" has EVER gotten even close to removal of their internal dialogue.
It's easy for someone who can do that, to say with absolute certainty that no Yogi of Buddhist can.
Because when you remove it for real, supernatural things happen that boggle the mind.
Any any Yogi or "Master" who really succeeded that would go crazy, and start searching worldwide for answers. Trying to understand what they discovered.
They'd end up in here, the only place with those answers.
I wish it weren't so, but it is. I myself searched worldwide for 15 years, and my teacher Carlos did that for 20 years. And he was so famous, anyone would meet with him.
He found NO ONE with any real knowledge. And had a bunch of funny stories about Yogis and such.
We've never heard of anything even remotely like our magic, from Yogis or Buddhists.
They only achieve what we consider to be rank beginner's results. And they never go any further from there.
Here's what happens when you can remove your internal dialogue. In this video.
You'll see why meditation doesn't work.
In fact, having practiced meditation puts you at a slight disadvantage. Because you've been taught to pretend your results.
I hear YouTube is supposed to be making subtitles soon.
But if you watch it, you'll see what we're doing.
There's a lot more videos you could watch at that link.
To be honest with you i never done meditation before, i tried it couple times when i was with my grandpa but that was years ago and i was in my early teens so i wouldnt call it successful meditation XD, as for the drugs i never took anything strong or "reality"altering however recently i did try smoking weed and focusing on silence, experience has been similar to being sober only that my silence seems break easier and my mind sways all over to place faster. Naturally i still struggle to keep internal silence intending it aint easy to say the least and i dont do tensegrity but i have been practicing silence alot recently even during day time wether its work or school difficult situations or happy situations. With regard to schizophrenia i dont know if i am i never got diagnosed or checked for that matter and i hope im not hallucinating all this, as far as i can tell im still blue zone cause i aint seeing nothing compared to what some of you describe seeing here aka iobs, screens, or double. I am curious and i do intend on keeping at it slowly slowly which is why i asked about silence being the only tool i can use.
If the term silence, or “inner silence” doesn’t work for you, you could also think of it as being a total absence of self-talk, or focus/reinforcement of the self. Be it the appealing elements, or the not so appealing.
Both need to be absent, for something else to rush in and fill that “space.”
in conventional meditation, or most types, it seems to equate to a kind of intense mindfulness, an intense focus on the present. unless i'm mistaken, it seems like a practice like this would strengthen the fixation of the assemblage point on where it's at, not make it more malleable.
would it be correct to say then that, inner silence, in a sense, is the opposite of this? instead of mindfulness, or it's more a type of mindlessness?
aside: the "no self" thing from Buddhism never made sense to me.
Definition of mindlessness would be important then, as many of the official definitions aren’t applicable in our case:
Done without deliberation, reasoning, or mental analysis. Being unconcerned or heedless of something.
mindfulness in meditation is usually something more like 'concentrate', 'focus', on a single object, in this way it blocks everything else out, through the intense focus on that single thing. (for Vipassana though, i'm not sure if this applies.)
so the opposite of this would be something like de-concentrating? de-focusing?
focusing would seem to imply the holding on of something, very tightly, solidifying it, whereas its opposite would be to let go of it, to let it fade out, disperse.
idk, i'm probably just over-intellectualizing things, i've just been wondering what exactly about meditation techniques is at conflict with the goal of inner silence in this context, because the purported goal for many meditators (in their minds) is to attain a type of silence or stillness of mind. i guess it's more control they are achieving than silence.
You'll only be able to answer those questions by learning to be silent.
It's a bit like learning to play the trumpet.
People can explain it to you, but that won't turn you into the jazz trumpet solo player in a vegas lounge act.
Only practice does that.
And pretty much NO TIPS for how to do it, achieve anything at all other than making you feel more confident you aren't wasting your time, to work hard at learning to do it.
You'll likely be as surprised as I am lately, that what's BELOW the internal dialogue, is what we want to get rid of.
It's what drives and motivates the internal dialogue.
And very much like this picture.
Reducing your internal dialogue in darkness during darkroom, does indeed make magic visible.
But you have to constantly fight to keep it flowing.
If you can get rid of that pity filled copy of yourself BELOW the internal dialogue, where it becomes clearly visible as an endlessly suffering aspect of yourself, magic stops being hard to get.
And those videos in the air become easy to enter.
That little guy on the floor was essentially beaten into you and has tainted your view of reality.
But you can "locate it", and just "drop it" at some point along the curve of inner silence.
The problem then is, loss of sense of purpose.
So that being able to walk off into a dream, while awake, isn't as useful as you'd think.
Other than the super coolness of doing that.
Which unfortunately you don't get to enjoy as much as you'd think, because the loss of purpose goes both ways.
Going in, and coming out.
that actually made a lot of sense. i suppose this is related to what is referred to as "self importance."
Yes, but that's a categorization at the level of being fully immersed in the Tonal, up at the blue line.
It's a "warrior's rules" kind of recommendation, to "get rid of self-importance".
An utter impossibility of course.
You CANNOT change yourself, up at that blue line where mankind is stuck. Except perhaps a tiny bit, over decades of time.
And there's no way you'll fully remove self-importance up there in that assemblage point position.
All you'll do is get a fathead from all the pretending.
BUT, in a lineage it makes the apprentices less awful if you convince them not to get their feelings hurt so much as you try to lead them to move their assemblage point, through silence.
We could benefit from that trick in this subreddit! To avoid half the temper tantrums that come from trying to get people to be serious.
Instead, if you REALLY want to "remove self-importance", you move your assemblage point until you can visibly SEE the "self".
And then just look past it to magic.
Temporarily. Unfortunately, it'll come back when you stop practicing for the evening.
Be careful about those "warrior's way" rules.
While all true, they don't lead anywhere.
Those are made for apprentices who are being taught in secret using the Nagual's blow. And can't remember all that teaching.
For them, behaving the "correct way" is good advice, because sooner or later, the hidden training is going to pop out.
The lineages "saw the floor out from under them". But they don't fall right away.
i mostly understand. i think i've put too much emphasis on the man of knowledge and warrior stuff, historically. i was captivated with the poetry.
the technique of losing self importance did help me though, in just the manner you described. it helps me feel less personally offended (or at least when i do feel it, i can better override it and tone down my reaction) which allows me to continue to learn from and respect those who had offended me in the past, whereas before, i'd have stormed off throwing everything out and learned nothing.
Self-pity is ultimately the one thing that keeps you from practicing and attaining, so just practice and defeat your self-pity a bit at a time:
Don Juan described self-importance as the force generated by man's self-image. He reiterated that it is that force which keeps the assemblage point fixed where it is at present. For this reason, the thrust of the warriors' way is to dethrone self-importance. And everything sorcerers do is toward accomplishing this goal.
He explained that sorcerers had unmasked self-importance and found that it is self-pity masquerading as something else.
"It doesn't sound possible, but that is what it is," he said. "Self-pity is the real enemy and the source of man's misery. Without a degree of pity for himself, man could not afford to be as self-important as he is. However, once the force of self-importance is engaged, it develops its own momentum. And it is this seemingly independent nature of self-importance which gives it its fake sense of worth."
Regarding loss of purpose:
Don Juan and Genaro laughed until their eyes were tearing. The more desperate I felt, the greater was their enjoyment. Finally, don Juan had me shift into heightened awareness and explained that their laughter was not unkindness on their part, or the result of a weird sense of humor, but the genuine expression of happiness at seeing me advance in the path of knowledge.
"I'll tell you what the nagual Julian used to say to us when we got to where you are," don Juan went on. "That way, you'll know that you're not alone. What's happening to you happens to anyone who stores enough energy to catch a glimpse of the unknown."
He said that the nagual Julian used to tell them that they had been evicted from the homes where they had lived all their lives. A result of having saved energy had been the disruption of heir cozy but utterly limiting and boring nest in the world of everyday life. Their depression, the nagual Julian told them, was not so much the sadness of having lost their nest, but the annoyance of having to look for new quarters.
"The new quarters," don Juan went on, "are not as cozy. But they are infinitely more roomy "Your eviction notice came in the form of a great depression, a loss of the desire to live, just as it happened to us. When you told us that you didn't want to live, we couldn't help laughing."
"What's going to happen to me now?" I asked.
"Using the vernacular, you got to get another pad," don Juan replied.
Don Juan and Genaro again entered into a state of great euphoria. Every one of their statements and remarks made them laugh hysterically.
"It's all very simple," don Juan said. "Your new level of energy will create a new spot to house your assemblage point. And the warriors' dialogue you carry on with us every time we get together will solidify that new position."
thanks for that, i do remember that exchange in the books but it was more puzzling than enlightening at the time i read it. (re-reading them again though, from #1).
self pity does seem to depend on self importance and self image seems like it would have to be a construct of the internal dialogue.
i understand you prefer the more practical approach, but thanks for engaging my "intellectual" ramblings.
i'm slow!
It's nice to see personal experiences verified by the books...
Carlos told me to stop reading them, which has benefits when someone finds a quote like that which you forgot, which 100% verifies your experiential point of view.
The only thing I'd add is the self-pity is beaten into us all, by the trials of living in a flesh body.
Taisha's book talks about concentration, but that's not really the same thing as mindfulness on the current reality.
Sounds good to me!
Might turn out you're actually talented, for seeing what you posted about.
We've had 2 talented people so far, out of 11,000 people who subscribed, over 6 years.
Both young. Which makes total sense. Younger = more energy.
Marijuana might move your assemblage point down a bit, but it also pulls it back up.
So while it's not a "sin", and won't prevent learning sorcery, the less the better.
It might might be that you were seeing "blue zone junk". Or it might be, you got a glimpse of the green zone's start.
Either way, when you leap into a purple puff floating in the air in front of you, and end up in another world for real, in your physical body, don't forget to come back and explain what you saw and mentioned in this post.
We're still not clear on what people might see in the blue zone, because the techniques in here quickly get you to the green zone.
And thus we don't know what might be possible in the blue zone.
I tried to add some of that blue zone stuff to my "J curve map", but we get new people who see stuff I didn't put on there.
Here's a closeup of the blue "station".
Notice that once you move just 6 inches down your back, things get so crazy that you aren't going to go back and see what can be done in the blue zone.
Meditation never leaves that green station, and even that they have to do with their eyes closed.
So you're lucky you didn't practice meditation. It just seems to lead to people thinking they have great accomplishments, so that when it comes time to work hard, they won't do it.
A 6 inch movement of the assemblage point, is what meditation produces.
But you need to move your assemblage point 23 FEET to get to where Carlos, our teacher, told us to go.
Over there, it's magic so crazy that no one will even believe you.
Sometimes I see stuff so astonishing that I have to stop in the middle of the night, and post it to the advanced subreddit, because I know that when the morning arrives, I won't be willing to post that anymore.
I suppose it's roughly like you turn into a Fairy in the middle of the night, but you know that by morning you'll be your old self again, and embarrassed over having such crazy experiences.
So you have to go post about what it's like, while you are willing to do it.
Have you read all the books? They’re so good. What an adventure CC was on.
Not saying, this is you, but I don’t understand why ppl come who haven’t read ALL the books. The books are the hook, and the tweak. You get tweaked into seeing the world differently. They’re a great read!
Do the majority of practitioners think turning off the internal dialogue is a form of meditation? Man….maybe I’m doing it wrong? I’ve never felt relaxed or enlightened after my sessions in Darkroom.
Yes, stopping that internal dialogue is the main goal. Doing the tensegrity helps achieve that.
You can start off with the Dreaming and Recapitulation passes. Download the book Magical Passes and go through it. It has a lot of explanation which will answer your doubts.
I have another question and somehow of an update on my efforts. Just to give you some backround info first im a student and i live in a studio appartment which can be busy all day also sometimes at night other students share the floor, and the balcony is overlooking an active street. So its kinda difficult i feel but still it hasent stoped me from seeing a few visuals. yesterday i got the most vivid visuals but i either kept getting overly excited or spooked a bit which makes them just disappear i saw blue sphere tho it kept shifting from purple to blue and back which i think is a fail coz i got excited or for instance human shadows which spook me although im getting better at managing and coping with that type of fear, i practice in the toilet and a tiny bit of light seeps from the door edges and i could make out a shdowy face peeking from the side of the mirror in my periphery. The question is am i suppose to be moving also towards them?? coz my toilet is small and either way im still struggling to interact with the puffs
Hey i also am begginer so im sorry if i post this on wrong place.. but i dont understand dark room.. i can close my eyes and see so much shapes and collors sometimes. I remember when i have been 5 years old i see every night collors before sleeping. So dark room must be dark room like okult place or i can just close my eyes
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Darkroom is done in a dark room (or with an eye mask on).
It is done with your eyes open, with your eyes closed is only getting started.
Here is a brief summary for you:
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/wiki/index/statement/