Does it sound fun to gaze into infinity and actually see continuous amazing sights?
Yea, except you can have to choose between doing that when you get up to practice, or doing your tensegrity, during which it's much harder to perceive energy as it flows in the universe.
It's much easier to receive streams from the emanations, which override your current reality, if you are fully sleep walking.
Awake, but also asleep with no internal dialogue.
During Tensegrity, that's not as easy.
But, if you "see" during tensegrity, it gets attached to a particular movement in your memory. And you can see how that transitions into the next move.
And so, why Carlos chose to use Tensegrity to teach us to reach Silent Knowledge, might partly be because that way we'd recall more of the progress we made.
You could sit up on your bed with your internal dialogue fully removed, and gaze at the secrets of the universe for several hours continuously.
One revelation after the other!
But the next day, ALL of it is completely gone.
I should qualify that. ALL of the knowledge itself is gone. But your link to intent remains a tiny bit cleaner, the next day. And so if you keep it up daily, it becomes easier.
On the other hand, if you "see" during Tensegrity, it's retained. You'll remember most of it!
The reason Tensegrity didn't work out for the last 25 years, is just because no one followed the instructions Carlos gave us. They didn't get rid of their internal dialogue.
Instead they turned Tensegrity into "weird chi gung", used for socializing and self-soothing in groups, ignoring the entire point of the long forms.
To help you remove your internal dialogue.
With your internal dialogue still fussing around, your assemblage point can't move and you'll see no amazing magic worth remembering.
23 Comments
I have a functional question regarding tensegrity.
What is the particular facet about those specific movements that makes them “real” versus “fake,” like clear green passes, or qi gong?
With qi gong I can intuit maybe that there is a great deal of visualization and imagery involved, which might be called pretending?
You specified that some groups turned magical passes into social-hour, which is obviously counter to the intent of the practice.
Following all of this, my question then is, is the specific form important, or can I “make up” movements, and have them be effective, so long as I practice them in the dark while forcing silence? Incidentally I actually like the tensegrity movements and find them appealing to practice. I’ve been working on the series for inner silence on YouTube.
You'll have to learn to "see" to answer all that.
Some things can be over explained, causing people to memorize the "facts", try to find lazy loopholes they can use, and then dismiss it all and never do anything about it.
But essentially the real tensegrity has a connection to the past, created by the energy of those who did those movements with the correct intent to learn sorcery.
Some of the movements, going back 8000 years!
Fake magical passes created by one of the varieties of Cleargreen have the intent of stealing money through fraud, and of attention seeking by coming up with "a really good idea" that seems to match a topic from the books.
They have the intent of date rape.
And have only ever been practiced by people obsessed with socializing.
There is no difference would it be tensegrity or anything else in that context. The thing is to move in the dark using unusual movements. That`s all, that is how our brain works. You can sit or stand still in your dark room till you get those wanted visual effects. Unusual movements in the dark just let you get it faster. It`s just my personal opinion, not a recommendation.
You believe that because you haven't yet reached silent knowledge.
I assume you can actually perceive the second attention, and with your eyes open. Not during lame meditation or some fake "Astral Travel" technique.
But even if that's so, it's not yet a "new stream of reality".
Weird stuff in darkness appears in the green zone, a movement of the assemblage point of just 6 inches down the back.
To get a "reality flow", one you can even enter in your physical body and leave this reality, you have to move your assemblage point 252 inches!
That's 42 times further than you're talking about.
Where a new reality "flows" from the emanations, based on trace energy.
The new flow can be viewed while remaining in this reality, but if you try to sustain that you'll get sucked inside, and no longer be in this reality.
For a while...
Beware of the tendency to try to turn the unknown, into the known! Especially if you've been swimming in the river of shit and trying out fake magical systems offered there.
Are you aware that sorcerers can visit God himself, for real, in their physical body?
Or heaven?
And yet, those don't actually exist.
Or are you aware of Porfirio, the Mazatec wizard who taught Nestor how to read the mold marks on plants?
A REAL being he visited over and over, who taught him all about plants.
Except... There was never such a man as Porfirio.
All three of those are possible for the same reason.
Because in fact there is NO PHYSICAL REALITY, in the way we believe there is.
You're theorizing a physical "brain" and how it behaves, and ignoring stuff you aren't aware of.
But I've done all three of those and more than a few times.
I've also done time travel back to the Olmecs, in my physical body.
The tensegrity movements often connect thousands of years back in time, and serve as that link to the past.
I have not reached silent knowledge; you're right about that. Sorry, but I don't believe in the Tensegrity story. In my opinion, it is a strange construct that was created by Carlos and the witches with a big help from Howard. That is the only reason there were no magical passes in any of Carlos's books.
This can be interpreted as me addressing the importance of ancientness, but I'm not. It seems I am not ready to accept that any particular movement pretends to be 'magical'. I can describe and feel it only through a psychophysiological context. Still, it works for changing perception, as tai chi does, or even some weird dance.
That's a very good point, and I thank you for reminding me.
Your achievements sound like you're an exceptionally great sorcerer who could teach even Carlos himself, so I can't argue with you. I'm simply stating my view. Is that allowed here?
We had a post in here where people identified magical passes in the books, after someone made your accusation.
It's probably around 3 years ago. You could go locate that to see that in fact there are many in the books.
I believe they got so many they just stopped adding them to that post, because it was obviously enough.
At least 20, maybe closer to 30, were identified.
Meanwhile, from Howard, and also from Shotokan and maybe even Aikido and Tai Chi, Carlos simply got the idea of making "long forms", after his attempts to teach the original movements the lineage had accumulated, failed in private classes.
None of Tensegrity as far as anyone can tell, comes from Howard's lame "Choi Lai Fut", the most common form of kungfu in southern China, and one that seems to have the fewest techniques.
Tensegrity bears no resemblance it.
My notes on the early passes are in here. There were just single movements, for a couple of months at the start of "Sunday Classes", at which point Carlos saw that it wasn't working.
So he announced he'd created "long forms" hoping that having to remember the series of movements, would help reduce our internal dialogue.
But it didn't...
It sounds like you've just heard some of the private class gossipy women complain about how things turned out. That he copied stuff from Howard, was a common claim at the time.
It's nonsense.
>Still, it works for changing perception, as tai chi does, or even some weird dance
Please point to anyone who used Tai Chi to change perception. But make sure it's as clear where you point, as it is in here. And not just stories about some man the web page wants you to idolize.
Point to a practical path using Tai Chi.
You won't be able to. You're just theorizing. It's not based on anything real.
>Your achievements sound like you're an exceptionally great sorcerer who could teach even Carlos himself
So you're a "piss" type.
Those are somewhat rare.
>I'm simply stating my view. Is that allowed here?
You don't know enough to be doing that. You should have realized that after looking around a while.
You're ignorant both of history, and the books.
So why exactly are you in here?
There's other Castaneda discussion groups.
Where they don't know any better.
You're essentially accusing everyone in here of lying!
But why?
What motivation could anyone in here, have for lying to you?
It's not like there's anything for sale. And it's not like there's a "group" with meetings and leaders.
I for one, hope I never meet anyone from here!
Except in dreaming.
Then it's ok.
Oh... And I have my eye on Mad Prophet, but that's because she might get a PhD in AI. And I'm hoping to find someone to be the face of a talking teddy bear maker.
Just a hobby. I'm a bit old to be doing engineering at that level.
But no one else seems to be working on offline complete talking AIs.
Noted.
It's interesting to share thoughts and experiences. Now I see that this is all about a new way of practicing, based on workshops and Sunday classes with a bit of imagination. It seems to be about the "one true way." My views and practices, however, are based solely on Carlos's books and follow those principles. So perhaps catching some useful clues is the right way to be here, rather than trying to discuss. Otherwise, I'll be seen as that "bad guy," or whatever you call it.
I suppose there's so much material in here, no one can be "up to speed" unless they've been around for years.
First, you're very confused about Carlos.
His level of magic was vastly beyond my abilities.
Maybe you're thinking about the Carlos from the books. Didn't those end in 1974?
I don't recall, but the Carlos that gave private classes in the mid 1990s was vastly more powerful than anything you read in the books.
Fortunately for me, anything I've learned to do was being done by him daily, and in private classes he gave weekly lectures on a wide range of advanced magical topics. For years.
I just wanted to correct your misunderstanding, which seems to be based on hanging out where no one ever got anything at all to work.
As for this place, I was blackmailed into it by the Allies of Carlos.
He released them to one specific private class, around late 1997.
There were likely 30 private students in there, any of whom now has access to his allies.
But the Allies ended up fixating on me, which might not be surprising considering that little ritual Carlos did at his home. I suspect he transferred a "strand" of energy into me, so that the Allies would recognize him, in me.
The same thing don Juan did to him. As explained by La Gorda in one of the books.
And the same with Cholita perhaps. A witch trained by Florinda. They allies love her! She even adopted one as a lover/child.
Carlos also seems to have given his allies instructions to save our sorcery from being lost.
And so around 10 years ago, the two allies chased me all over Asia, materializing for real while I was fully awake, and finally pinning me down in Bangkok by pulling me into their world.
Telling me, they could easily drive me mad if I didn't obey.
This place is the result.
Anything else you're thinking, is just your own theorizing what you'd do if you were in here.
I'm not in here by choice. And certainly not for profit.
Although it has worked out very well.
It turns out, if you help others then "the spirit" uses you, when someone else needs something that can't be delivered directly to them.
You become the intermediary for super cool magic you didn't earn yourself.
Which is also mentioned in the books.
There's nothing new or odd in this subreddit. It's the same stuff that's in the 20 books and publications.
It was 1997. Or 1998, if we count 'The Wheel of Time'.
For now,all I can say is thank you. Thank you for your Nagualist newsletters. They were very good. I don't know for sure, but I assume it was you who created them.
I think it's pointless to discuss other things. We see things way too differently, and I don't like to bother people unnecessarily.
I was talking about the books where he was discussing his magical experiences with don Juan.
That ended in 1974 as I recall.
We were reading about his skill levels back then, not what he learned to do since.
Interesting point. So what are the rest of the books about in your opinion?
This thread got too long, and soon I won't be able to find your comments. Reddit doesn't go directly to them if they've been "collapsed". And they can even get unreachable.
If you want to comment again, find a post closer to the top and reply to that one.
I don't have to have an "opinion". Carlos told us in private classes.
You seem convinced that learning sorcery is based on "opinions" of the best way to do that, when in fact it's all described in the books and was elaborated on in private classes and workshop lectures.
The paths that work are all in there. Anything outside the paths in there, won't work.
It's pretty simple...
You need to understand that everything in the books is 100% true.
Until you realize that, you won't get much from reading them.
We've even verified the jumping off a cliff kind of stuff! Traveling to the IOB world also.
Physically. Visibly. Wide awake.
Cholita and I used to play chase, jumping across the super high power lines in our neighborhood.
Awake!
An Ally that Mad Prophet lent to me, taught me to swipe the ceiling away, and leap outside our galaxy to land on a planet in a nearby one.
In my physical body!
Carol Tiggs pushed me into the inorganic being's world after Carlos put her up to it, and after that I had reliable access to the inorganic being's world.
Awake! In my physical body. And impossible to explain. It often involved passing through solid walls that disappeared to leave an entrance.
But several in this subreddit have visited the inorganic being's world. This subreddit has 3 dozen people who kick the Buddha's miserable Butt, and every Yogi who ever lived. Every con artist Chinese "sage".
Our magic is REAL. Outside here, it's not.
It's a pity, but that's the facts. And that was mentioned in the books quite a few times.
Carlos mentioned it in private classes too. He used to tell stories about his search for anything real, anywhere.
He found nothing.
Basically, the last 5 books are Carlos' "how to books".
Carlos wrote one of those either the late 70s or early 80s, but lost it in a theater. So he took that as a sign not to.
But then after he started private classes, he made the "how to" books we have now.
One of which is probably Taisha's unpublished book which you can get from the wiki.
Another is that unpublished Silent Knowledge booklet and the little mailer "Readers of Infinity".
I'd make a list of the how to books, but Carlos forbid me to read his books anymore so it's hard for me to keep track of the ones from after he said that.
I only know them from others quoting them in here, which gives me permission to go look where they said, so I can answer a question they have about some point.
By the way. This is how "The fire from within" starts (1984):
"I want to express my admiration and gratitude to a masterful teacher, H.Y.L., for helping me restore my energy, and for teaching me an alternate way to plenitude and well-being."
This is about Howard. Thus, he had a significant influence on Carlos.
Nope.
Study more.
There's lecture notes on what Carlos said about Howard.
Such as "Chinese men are really screwed up".
Or calling him "cotton mouth" and making fun of how he talks.
There's a lot more.
You're just repeating the same gossip you seem to have fallen victim to, coming from 2 specific private class women. Pat being one of them.
Howard taught ordinary Choi Lai Fut, one of the lamest of Chinese martial arts.
And joined up with a con man (Marshall Ho'o) who pretended to be a tai chi expert, not remembering any genuine forms. So he made up his own.
They formed the Riverside county Tai Chi association.
Carlos became interested in martial arts back in the heydey, when everyone from Asia was cashing in, by pretending to be "masters".
Moving to Los Angeles area, post WW2.
Supposedly Carlos even hung out with Bruce Lee once or twice.
I got caught up in that "golden era of martial arts" nonsense too.
Howard's latest con game, his "light of life", is merely delusional Daoist longevity techniques he resurrected, so he could steal money using workshops.
Why did Carlos dedicate the book to Howard?
Possibly to produce just the effect that's confused you on this topic.
To break things up, when he "left" us.
That's part of "the rule".
Carlos was a stickler for following that silly rule.
Or maybe it was Carlos paying back a debt he felt he had. Due to Carlos trying to heal his illnesses.
Carlos was always sickly.
And Carlos regularly paid back debts he felt he couldn't reconcile with recapitulation.
We all have to do that.
In this case, with Howard, he called it giving someone a "blank check".
Howard abused his...
Why are you in this specific subreddit?
Why not go somewhere else which believes what you do.
Namely that sorcery is a bunch of crap.
Everywhere outside here believes that.
I think that this specific subreddit contains more than just your way and interpretation. I believe that it's about nagualism, or whatever we call it. I'm not here for you and your version of practicing. I see other people who don't say things like, "I have banned the books." I'm interested in reading their posts, questions, reports, etc.
Do I have to share your views and consider yours the only true way? I guess I don't. Or is this your subreddit about your "sorcery"? That's not in the description.
Maybe english isn't your first language?
I never said "I have banned the books".
Carlos banned them for his private class members.
I recommend quite the contrary. I tell people that it's important to read ALL of them, or the loss of knowledge that you'll be needing, is a tragedy.
Or are you making up stuff to win an argument?
>Or is this your subreddit about your "sorcery"? That's not in the description.
Can't you just go create your own version, somewhere else?
It's pretty clear you don't actually want to learn sorcery, but are instead focused on the social aspects.
If I went through your history, would I find you hanging out in other such topics, pretending to be an expert there?
We've seen your kind in here over and over again.
Try doing some actual learning by reading past posts, and you'll be embarrassed when you realize that your attitude comes along all the time, and never gets around to learning anything real.
Because they don't have an actual interest, and are focused on building a reputation of some kind.
Read the "Are you a bad player?" post, to see how much analysis has accumulated over time in here, by analyzing why people come to behave badly in here.
Something Carlos alerted us to.
It's not my idea, he warned us to look out.
I told you, I`m Russian. So I make mistakes for sure.
No. The only one who pretends to be an expert, a new Carlos, is you. If you are capable of recalling our discussion history, then you will see that I claimed almost nothing, especially about my expertise. It was you who was acting like a guru.
I did.
Do you see me creating anything? There is only a refutation of your tales. And it seems like you feel an obligation to attack me in response. That is how gurus, senseis and cult leaders do.
It's you who started our communication here. It's you who says many things about me while not knowing me at all. Am I a bad player? If we consider communication and the way of talking then no. It's you. If we consider my total disagreement with your tales, then yes, I am.
I understand what kind of person you are. And if I conclude that this subreddit represents only your version as the final truth despite its many critical contradictions with the books then I will go away. Or administrators will ban me confirming, that this is not about Carlos or don Juan but about Dan.
No, actually, the first thing you said in this post was you pretending to be an expert
We have rules in the Sidebar about grandstanding. It is very plain that tensegrity plays a role, and if you don't want to use everything that was given by Carlos, please move on.
This is a coherent system, with it's own instruction set for replication.
What you're suggesting is, to use an analogy, that you could study a user manual for a cordless hand vacuum, and then expect to know how to operate an industrial forklift.
It could seem the same by broad categorization, but they are NOT equal based on outcome or function.
At all.
What do you do to get to sleep walk mode. Just silencing the inner dialogue?
No, the assemblage point has to move to the other side of the body.
In the books, they used the Nagual's blow to accomplish this in an apprentice.
If you search around you'll find the section on "the sleepwalker Genaro" or something like that, where Genaro is in an EXTREME sleepwalking situation, and even snoring while walking.
But it's a "continuum" starting from barely sleep walking when you get rid of the idea of a "self", meaning when you reach the "place of no pity".
All the way to Genaro's snoring, which is DRASTIC purple zone.
It's good for me to explain things like this, because then I remember Carlos taunting us, when he explained the J curve.
It seems that lecture took place on more than just the ordinary level of reality!
But my memory of the "odd parts" just involve him staring with a weird smile for a bit too long.
His finger lingered a long time over in that purple zone.
He was tracing it on the body of one of the pretty young women, but since I'm face blind I don't know who hit was.
imo what works:
doing recapitulation about the experience already while still being in an isolated assemblage point position
summarize the recapitulation to a size of information that can fit into a single moment of perception
perceive that summarization while moving back to normal
again recapitulate that summarization until it expands back to its prior version
I suspect you have to experience that yourself, to understand what you're pointing to.
But certainly there are "tricks" you can learn when practicing any form of sorcery.
Or "tips", as Carlos put it.
He asked don Juan for some tips on what he was currently learning, and don Juan said those won't help anyone, and are "merely what I myself did".
I don't completely agree with that.
Because at least, hearing a tip carries the idea that it actually works, and you can make it work for yourself, though practicing.
That's better than where we ended up with Cleargreen.
No one believing it works at all, and instead just seeking status and certifications within the workshop crowd.