BETTER HAVE STRICT BOUNDARIES when it comes to interactions with your IOBs!!!!
Otherwise, you RISK LOSING YOUR FREEDOM (and quite frankly, your SANITY).
In the worst case, you could even end up FULLY MERGING with the IOB and if you want a taste of what that feels like, just read all the many posts in this forum.
Take their energy, but do NOT GIVE IN to their influence!!!!
Do NOT become their SLAVE!!!!
NO MATTER with what "shiny objects" or "other worlds" or "erotic forms" they try to SEDUCE you with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have been warned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Carlos was NOT a slave to any IOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don Juan even avoided them as much as possible. DO NOT LET ANYONE TELL YOU OTHERWISE, EVER!!!!!!
FF
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u/residentatzero
9 points2025-11-15 21:26
Can you point to some of those posts related to "merging"? I have been here for a while and haven't seen any...
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u/pinkerton904
8 points2025-11-15 21:50
Have you even conciously interacted with one? 😒
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u/FractalFreak21
1 points2025-11-19 13:33
Absolutely. IOBs will naturally appear, once you practice every day. Some particular ones will be "with you" for a while.
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u/NumerousExtension916
9 points2025-11-15 21:59
This kind of “warriors” don’t actually reject the IOBs — they’ve never seen them — so what they really reject is magic.
If someone sees what’s real through their own effort, they’ll never be fooled by scammers, and that’s where those people lose...
And if we practiced magic with hats, then they would say:
“Stay away from those damn hats, you must live and die enslaved to money!"
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u/YungSnuggieDisciple
6 points2025-11-15 22:01
Oh hey, it’s one of those Warner types that’s in the Bad Player list, that’s attack #2
Normally you’d be squashed like a bug in here!
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u/Ok-Assistance175
12 points2025-11-16 00:01
My IOB said you’re already owned by another set of parasitic IOB’s through your fear. Let go of that fear and you’ll be ok.
Remember that the first thing Don Juan emphasized to Carlos ‘The secret is to not fear them!’.
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u/monkeyguy999
2 points2025-11-23 20:25
:)
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u/Emergency-Total-4851
7 points2025-11-16 04:26
Do you mean to say that we lose our dimple thanks to interacting with IOBs?
It seems that Cleargreen doesn't teach much if it teaches warriors to value sanity.
"That's the reason why we can't say that warriors lose their minds," don Juan went on. "If they lose anything, they lose their dimple."
"What happens to the persons whose assemblage points lose rigidity?" I asked. "If they're not warriors, they think they're losing their minds," he said, smiling. "Just as you thought you were going crazy at one time. If they're warriors, they know they've gone crazy, but they patiently wait. You see, to be healthy and sane means that the assemblage point is immovable. When it shifts, it literally means that one is deranged."
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u/Bilissss
7 points2025-11-16 07:16
What happens to the third attention that if you go you also become an iob, are you a kind of racist sorcerer??
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u/isthisasobot
6 points2025-11-16 07:32
Could you give an example of having strict boundaries when it comes to interactions with the iob's?
You are giving very crucial advice, it seems, if we are to risk losing our freedom otherwise.. but I'm missing the advice..or is this fearmongering? An attempt to a dark manipulative manoeuvre. A threat to our sanity?
So the advice is what exactly? There's a great warning you give, but what are you trying to warn us from?
You say in the worst case fully merging with an iob. The only references I can find in the books concerning that is that dJ says we must become one with our ally. Carlos also merged with the blue scout. Was that also a worst-case scenario according to you?.. what your saying is like the opposite as to what Carlos did to evolve.
Don Juan advised Carlos to set his intent up like an airport ( that’s a lot of refined, intelligent logistics).. do you have something to declare?- Then stand in line over there.. it is illegal to stand in line with nothing to declare when you have something to declare.. because of smuggling.
Sure. We learn to put up strict boundaries, but that's more to keep ourselves in line. It’s a particular type of iob that has enslaved us, and the differences between the iobs are greater than that of between organic life. The flier gave us its mind.
Perhaps CG took "your" energy but didn’t give in to your influence.. they certainly took your money. But hell, if you work hard enough, you could pay your way to becoming an instructor.. specializing in how to set up boundaries to stop being seducted by the iobs.. and avoid them as much as possible by putting up a frigid boundary to the other worlds and erotic forms and shiny objects. My god, how boring can you get? Getting seduced by an old woman like that whilst it comes over that you pay a lot for a brief entrance.
A holy investment
A scam
Strict boundaries indeed are needed to contain such a blob where it is to survive that immensity out there.
Maybe you're looking for sponsors for your CG quest. Actually, it's not a bad idea. We all chip in some to get you enough to go back there and become fully certified, then you can teach it to us.. oh, no, that wouldn't work. You'd be compromised because they obviously hold valuable secrets which are only reserved for those " privileged " few who have shown enough dedication in the form of.. moneyy. Is that the taking from their world without giving in to their influence that you are trying to preach here?
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u/gentian_red
2 points2025-11-17 22:01
Erotic forms bro? If you can see energy directly you know that you are pressing these images onto them, maybe the one you need to control is yourself rather than the IOB?
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u/NiKOLiNAZ
1 points2025-11-18 01:50
🤣🤣🤣
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
17 points2025-11-15 21:02
This post has been restored because it could be informative to have a debate on Cleargreen's aversions to IOB interaction, which is HIGHLY LIKELY to be the reason they are so lame and undeveloped even after decades of time in which they could have gained some traction in the second attention. Directly.
Instead they seem firmly mired in the first enemy. FEAR. The residue of which upholds the inner dialogue and thus drives away the very thing they need to generate momentum towards a position where they wouldn't need the IOB's as much anymore.
They're stuck in a catch 22...
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u/FractalFreak21
1 points2025-11-16 10:54
CG is not against IOB interaction. It is discussed often. This post here comes from me, not from CG. Sure, you need IOBs to go deep. But do not just engage with any random IOB, they are not all the same. Differentiate. Do not just be open to any IOB that shows up. If you do not feel its vibe, then do not play with it. And if an IOB "pushes" you to do sth., but you are not feeling it, then do not do it. You have a choice. The quotes posted are not a joke, they are very explicit statements. If you fall "asleep at the wheel", an IOB can end up using you as a mere vessel. If you do not show where the line is, it will just push you further and further. This is never discussed here. It is always like "yes, just interact with ANY IOB that appears". Without any differentiation. That is playing with fire. It is like indulging. You start believing that you are the Captain, and you end up being the sailor.
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u/Aromatic_Detective77
1 points2025-11-18 23:59
Do you mind me asking , how do you know what the relationship with IOBand Cleargreen is ? It’s clear that this Reddit group is against Cleargreen. I’m just asking because I really want to have proof , for my own sake, that Cleargrreen are as you say. I can’t see any motive for wanting to put down Cleargreen so you must have direct evidence of the statements you’re making ; Cleargreen have not conquered fear and by extension, this upholds internal dialogue , so they must still be suffering from internal dialogue after decades ? How do you know this about them ? Not just your own conjecture based on your bias , how do you know this as factual statements ?
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u/lostinforever89
17 points2025-11-15 22:13
The only price you’ll be paying is for a certification!!!!
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u/firejotch
5 points2025-11-16 00:10
I dunno man. I merged with mine and we chillin.
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u/BBz13z
4 points2025-11-16 05:17
So dreaming emissary can’t lie, but is it compelled to answer? It could withhold information, pick and choose what info to give, answer questions with questions, or provide choices.
How humans understand and define deception, may not be the same for the IOBs.
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u/danl999
16 points2025-11-16 12:46
How strange... I got an SK lecture on this topic last night.
Not something I really wanted to be watching, after enjoying a Studio Ghibli movie earlier in the evening.
From Ghibli magic, to greedy Reni... I actually had "videos in the air" of their misdoings. And of other "inner circle" people.
Oddly, Cholita was the only one who came out looking good.
Maybe Amy's book was partly designed to stimulate such flows of silent knowledge? About "what went wrong".
Man... Watching that SK sucked... Sorcery is difficult sometimes.
It's a pity Carlos didn't have access to the internet back in the early 90s. I'm pretty sure he'd have spent time looking for the perfect picture to go along with a lecture! Or have gotten Nyei to find it, as a teaching lesson to her.
Seeing something with your eyes, would add another level to the storytelling he used in classes. He used sound, but if he could have used any other sense, I'm sure he would have.
Each of the senses is a "hook" to reality streams. Something that becomes very obvious once you can view SK for sustained periods.
Even your skin is a hook to reality streams.
At any rate, this is merely more Cleargreen excuses for why they're so lame and can't make any of this work. They're disdaining the "evil spirits" and "egotistical magical powers", in favor of pretending to be saintly followers so that Carlos will take them to sorcery heaven when they die.
They turned it into a weird form of Catholicism.
Carlos used to lecture about how awful catholicism is, mostly to help
Amy. But possibly also, because he saw it as inevitable that people would try to turn sorcery into yet another fake religion.
Just FYI to new people: This is a technology. Not a religion.
It's like computers, or plumbing.
As soon as you try to turn it into a belief system, the magic vanishes.
It has to!
"Belief" is a dirty link to intent.
(continued)
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u/danl999
17 points2025-11-16 12:48
It's not "what is", but "what you wish you could have".
That screams out, "NORMAL REALITY".
And pulls you away from the magical realms. It pulls your assemblage point back to where you grew up, and learned all of your petty social motivations.
As you can see in this post.
He's trying to turn his beliefs into a lecture to give us, to promote himself in social status. Without having any actual knowledge of this topic.
Maybe Carlos' "seeing" guided him to speak out against Catholicism.
Seeing does in fact take into account the future. But deliberately trying to peer into it, puts up a barrier that makes it impossible for this specific reality's future to come into focus.
You get alternate ones, that are mostly phantom.
Don Juan warned about how seeing fails, when you're too involved in the topic.
Anyone who's done work to learn to move their assemblage point, understands that perfectly.
But whatever the reason Carlos harped on how absurd Catholicism was, for several months, he was right. That's what all the hard work he and the witches did, has become.
It's no wonder the witches ditched cleargreen the instant Carlos was gone. Carol gave them a chance, but eventually figured out they'd turned evil. So she's off helping others in some other way.
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u/FractalFreak21
1 points2025-11-19 13:48
"Seeing does in fact take into account the future. But deliberately trying to peer into it, puts up a barrier that makes it impossible for this specific reality's future to come into focus.
You get alternate ones, that are mostly phantom."
Once you can "see", it is not difficult to see the "future". However, mind you, seeing one particular "reality line" does not necessarily mean that this particular reality line is the one that will manifest. That is why it is a good idea to be aware of "self-fulfilling prophecies".
I have nothing to "teach", I am free to express what I see, perceive and feel. Again, I am a STUDENT. You can agree or disagree. But may I ask, why do you not address any of the CONTENT put forward?
Because you (aka the IOB in you) tries its hardest to avoid these discussions, even if they come from Don Juan himself. Why? Because many parts in the books do not fit the "IOB agenda" here, which is to ensure that in the future, there will be enough voluntary vessels at your disposal, in case "you guys" (the IOBs here) need to switch to a new vessel. Now tell me, is that a lie?
Allow me to re-phrase; what is your INTENT with regard to all the posts you make?
Writing ca. 100 pages daily, making all the animations etc. is not done for no reason.
And, as it is clear now, it certainly is not to "protect the reputation of Carlos"; he did not write a book on "inorganics"; but he wrote one on the "magical passes" and one on actual "dreaming"; yet this forum provides a misleading depiction; pretending that the 'world of Castaneda' is all about catching an IOB and getting seduced by it, so it shows you different worlds and objects, until one day, when the energy is used up and all that is left from "you" is an empty shell with no more energy in it. Do not go down this path. You have been warned by the NAGUAL (Don Juan) HIMSELF. If you refuse to listen, you WILL PAY THE PRICE. That is the "prediction" I am making here now, officially. Call it "seeing the future" if you will.
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u/FractalFreak21
-3 points2025-11-19 13:57
"Thus they try to extend your life by getting you to come live with them, which is then viewed by us, through some kind of christian theme of heaven and hell."
That is a very romantic way of putting it, Dan. I give "you" a new name now. INORDAN. Because at this point, to say that you "merged" with an IOB would be an understatement. And I can see that it was not even "little smoke", but something else (or even an iteration). Anyways. You make "your" choices.
But stop 'bending' any narrative you can find to push your "iob agenda",
in particular if that comes to bending the TRUTH around Carlos! That is a BOUNDARY "you" (=INORDAN) should start to finally RESPECT. I hereby command you to do so.
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u/FractalFreak21
-1 points2025-11-19 14:02
It is indeed fascinating to realize that all the things you write are a result of your interactions (and then becoming one) with an IOB. As I said, IOBs have more consciousness than humans. At the beginning, if one is new, it feels as if "Dan" is just a super-intelligent, super-committed Carlos-enthusiast. But after a few years of actually understanding Carlos's world (and visiting it!), it all becomes clear. This forum is in itself a "warning" to ANYONE, because you can literally SEE YOURSELF what can happen to you, if you do NOT impose boundaries on your IOBs. Once more, Don Juan has SAID IT IN VERY CLEAR TERMS! And even Carlos himself did NOT FALL SLAVE to any IOB. He knew where the BOUNDARY is. He played with them. He used them for seeing etc. But he refused to "get lost" in them.
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u/FractalFreak21
0 points2025-11-19 14:09
Are you aware what Carol said after she merged with the deathdefier?
"I did not like what was there before it, but I neither liked what was there after it".
Let that sink in.
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u/FractalFreak21
1 points2025-11-19 14:17
INORDAN, please STOP trying to take "ownership" of something that was never and will never be "yours". The world of Carlos Castaneda is NOT "yours", as much as you are trying to pretend it. Whoever used to be "Dan" was probably a really nice man; but in the end, he just played too much with things that always were beyond his own energy. It feels like "Dan" is no more, and that INORDAN will continue to write all that stuff every single day, trying to ensure that there will be enough vessels that are open to switch to, once the current vessel is "used up". REMEMBER, the "inorganics" do NOT have a physical body themselves!!!!! So can we even blame them? NO! For them, it is literally about "bodily" survival!
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u/FractalFreak21
-1 points2025-11-19 14:47
There is a reason why the apprenticeship with Don Juan took ca. 6 years, he prepared Carlos PROPERLY for the things that were about to happen. He made sure he had recapitulated enough, and that there was no EGO-stuff in the way. He made sure that Carlos experienced the second attention (and more), so that he would be prepared to become a sorcerer who does not suffer from weaknesses. THESE STEPS CANNOT BE SKIPPED, as much as you love to promote that. YOU are doing something DANGEROUS, because you are putting souls AT RISK, trying to convince them that there would not be severe risks. That is what an IOB would do. But it does not make it right. Most people will not be able to realize all that. At least, I tried to show that. Therefore, I have claimed my ENERGY back from this forum. It should NOT have the title of "Castaneda", it is entirely misleading. That cannot stay like that. But SPIRIT will take care of these things. I did my part.
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u/silence_sam
3 points2025-11-19 15:45
The mushrooms aren't helping you bro they're making you crazy. Or you are using them to make yourself crazy. Do what you will, but without sobriety you will lose yourself.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
2 points2025-11-19 16:40
There is a reason why the apprenticeship with Don Juan took ca. 6 years, he prepared Carlos PROPERLY for the things that were about to happen.
His apprenticeship was from 1960-1973, with a hiatus part-way through of around six months to a year or so (as I recall).
The title of this sub was not our choosing. It was simply the only subreddit in 2019, that had any appreciable members at all; so that made it the only realistic space in which to revitalize things.
And the torch was passed to us by the woman who created it, who may have had some direct association with Carlos (there were certain, but vague, clues) in full knowledge of what our intent was.
And our veracity.
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u/danl999
5 points2025-11-19 14:22
Just get lost again, please?
You've been harmful to others as long as you've been plaguing this subreddit. How many times do we have to try to figure out what to do about you, in private chat?
But... you're PERFECT for cleargreen...
Go worship Reni.
She seems to have created the idea that she's a saint, who can "see", and help others.
Reni will soon die, the jackals will fight over the Cleargreen carcass, and maybe you can become the next "Miles".
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u/FractalFreak21
1 points2025-11-19 14:33
No, thank you. But again; what was the first thing "you" mentioned in your interview? It was "power". You say it all straight in the face of everyone, and they do not even see it. There is a reason why Carlos WARNED ABOUT THE OLD SEERS and their thirst for POWER in every book! Look what happened to them in the end! Now, that is certainly NOT ROMANTIC. And this group of "bullying loners" around yourself, with their "cynical, ego-driven" energy is not aware of the price, they gonna pay if they are "next" on your list. Again, you AVOID any of the content-wise points, but you try to cover it all up with personal attacks and ego-stuff. I do not care for that. But pressing you on making clear statements always leads to a DIVERSION. That in itself says it all. Because IOBs cannot lie.
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u/FractalFreak21
1 points2025-11-19 14:39
When "you" were at the workshops, as you claimed, you were old enough to be selected for Carlos' inner circle. Could it be that you never forgave him that he did not do so? And as a result, you messed with the IOBs and then did all this here? Do you feel that this was the right thing to do? Look at the price you are paying! How can this be the way to go?
And, the only thing "harmful" to ACTUAL MAGIC is "your", so INORDAN's bending of the truth, created narratives, pre-planned personal attacks (with labels); and, worst of all, an INACCURATE, INCOMPLETE, SELECTED use of Carlos's teachings. THAT my dear, he will NOT FORGIVE you! You will need to come clean regarding that!
Did you really think that "accusing others" of saying incorrect things about Carlos would protect yourself from that allegation? Come on! That is not good enough.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
3 points2025-11-19 14:55
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u/NumerousExtension916
3 points2025-11-19 18:26
Incredible, a full-on "exorcist": Inorganicdan, I command you to close your Reddit account now! Lol.
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u/danl999
7 points2025-11-19 19:00
I believe he's gone forever!
The mods finally decided he'll never change.
He's only in it for the pretending.
One of his supporters did another attack, but seems to have deleted it. I can't find it to respond, even though it's in my notifications list.
Which makes me suspicious that if you have a cleargreen bad player come to attack here, you should expect 2 more with user IDs that have no history.
Who "escalate" each time you response honestly to them.
Even if you're only trying to snap them out of pretending, in the hopes they'll actually decide to learn for real.
They start out very polite, like a "good" cleargreen representative.
But their heads quickly explode!
They have to...
They're brainwashed!
No one likes to be deprogrammed.
Still, you learn things from them that you didn't know.
Such as that Reni is indeed pretending to be a saint, who has "the second sight" and can help people using her "seeing".
Seeing is one of those things everyone who's pretending eventually claims, because they figure no one can call them out on it.
But we can...
Because "seeing" isn't vague at all!!!!
Anyone who actually learned to see, would go around screaming from the highest building, trying to get others to learn so that they'll realize how amazing this magic is.
When it's just Saint Reni "helping people", that's a sure sign it's yet more pretending.
Often it's people teaching Tai Chi on the side, who claim "I can see". Which makes sense, because Tai Chi is nonsense and filled with delusions.
(Pity... it could be fixed.)
You also get the "I lost my human form" scam among people who never actually learned sorcery but want others to believe they did.
Another thing they believe you can't disprove.
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u/NumerousExtension916
3 points2025-11-19 22:08
And I’d add to that list all those “third gate dreaming while asleep” stories, from people who don’t even understand that it’s about movements of the assemblage point — and who are, in fact, stuck in the blue, and ignoring that is precisely what keeps them from jumping. “Impossible to see anything from here, sir.” It’s impossible to see or say anything true until you get out of the blue, and then maybe you’ll be able to see all those worlds and try not to go insane with joy at how intense and absurd it all is: no one would believe you even if you managed to remember it, and then to describe it.
Meanwhile, these kinds of “attackers” basically sound like people complaining that there’s no catch in a “baitless fishing” mode — since none of the ocean’s inhabitants want to stray from the true path to magic, which is public, free, without lineages, without nagual blows, and energetically boosted by IOBs, in order to find the right “leadership” in SK.
So those who couldn’t admit it in the past should now reconsider that we’re all students here — and therefore we will try to maintain a setup suited for study, not for pretending, showing off, worshipping, or generating profit. Opposing our autonomous, free, voluntary learning system means we’ll defend ourselves by pushing back against their annoying presence.
And if they get scared by the most superficial glimpse of the daily lives of witches and sorcerers, then it’s clear they’re not ready for what comes next on the J-Curve...
Will someone ever make a guide for the bad player? I wonder: what should the markers be to measure a bad player’s toughness? Time on stage, number of comments and downvotes, persistence, acting as a swarm? I remember reading about clashes with one or two “tough” bad players in “old” posts. Compared to them, this one seems more like a “Kamikaze Exorcist Messenger” or “Zombie Exorcist.”
If you’re an “opportunistic” IOB, you’ve got half your dinner solved if, from a distance, you see some guy shouting incantations — but you immediately move away if you see he’s “rotten” and can’t even perceive you…
Here we are practitioners of sorcery, which means we want to interact with IOBs, following the instructions left by Carlos, in collaboration with inorganic energy and with the intent of the sorcerers of Ancient Mexico.
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u/danl999
6 points2025-11-19 23:01
Plus IOBs look really good in clingy miniskirts.
Here's how "Fancy" used to teach me new magic.
LITERALLY!!!
But unfortunately once you reach the orange zone, they can't seem to look that real anymore.
One day maybe we'll understand why, but for those who never saw them get quite this real, don't forget about the story in the books where Vicente's 3 allies appear to Carlos, as people with a broken down car on the side of the road.
Right after he places in the ground and waters 3 little pants Vicente gave him.
In the case of Fancy, I never got to examine her close up, like a real bein gmade of physical matter.
But I got to see her looking this real, for a good 10 minutes.
Fairy on the other hand, let me examine her very close up, like moving my head within 4 inches of all parts of her body.
And she was indistinguishable from a real woman.
Except....
My room was pitch black!!!
You tend to forget that at the time. And you don't notice, she's laying on the wooden floor, and you can see that too.
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u/Aromatic_Detective77
0 points2025-11-19 01:33
How can a person rod themselves of IOB ‘s that have attached themselves to you ? Is there a magical pass or command one can pronounce to be free of them. I have asked them to leave with no success. I believe I was connected to an IOB as a child, and have been unable to experience the first attention fully due to the over powering influence/ energy domination they have exerted over me. I DO have a profound fear of death and of the unknown. Fear that because the IOB come from a different attention, i feel they must have an advantage over me because they are inorganic. I know that it is probably an issue of conquering fear. But with the energy fields and presence of the IOB , especially in my left hand side , it’s like having been ensconced in a bubble of viscous energy vibrating and blocking off my conne to the first attention. Like being under water .
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u/FractalFreak21
-1 points2025-11-19 09:28
“take their energy but not give in to their influence” that advice from Don Juan says it all. there is need to have any fear; but just make sure to “stand your ground”; this is about caution. most iobs are neutral. however, if you just “give in”, like many here carelessly do, you will end up being just a vessel. the consciousness of iobs is far beyond the one of humans. the iobs I work with know me well by now, but it took effort to show what I am okay with and where I draw the line. It is like with everything; if you indulge too much; there will be a price to pay. If you smoke every day, do not complain if you get lung cancer. If you do psychedelics every week, do not complain if you end up cooking your brains. and if you play around with random iobs, this without having prepared yourself with a few years of recap, not-doing, tensegrity, stalking etc., you can end up being “easy prey”. and at this point, it feels to me that the reason this forum is actually promoting unprepared interaction is that it is actually iobs who control this place here. They are simply preparing their next vessels. But if you actually read the books carefully; you would find the respective warnings there, like the one I quoted. Your choice. And of course; you do not want to hear that you have to do things properly, this over years; like Don Juan prepared Carlos. Even he complained “oh no, not recap again!”. But Don Juan insisted. You can either do things properly and prepare yourself. Or you can just try to “force silence” and be easy prey in the other domain. Carlos would not promote the latter. He put a lot of effort into developing and preparing people. Years. It is your choice; are you REALLY committed to this? Then do things properly, even if it takes time. Or, be “cheap” and get fed to other beings (with a consciousness level far beyond yours). This forum is actually a real-life demonstration / warning to what can happen to you if you do not pay attention to what that implies.
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u/Bilissss
3 points2025-11-19 10:36
these vessels mentioned;
because it seems like you're the one changing things, not us...
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u/isthisasobot
3 points2025-11-19 12:29
Don't you think that this will work against us? ..I mean, if we go imposing boundaries.. so would they? Where will that lead to?
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u/FractalFreak21
0 points2025-11-19 12:42
No, it would not, they know exactly what they are doing. They will always want to play. They are very curious and excited about human emotions and energy. But this is not a "collective" choice. It is an individual one. All I did is draw your attention to what Don Juan said. It was not a joke and neither an exaggeration. It is about CAUTION. If the Nagual said this, we better FULLY understand what he meant. Otherwise, look what the result is.
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u/isthisasobot
2 points2025-11-19 16:07
What did you mean by " But this is not a collective choice"? - I mean, where 's that coming from?
44 Comments
This is not mentioned enough here;
BETTER HAVE STRICT BOUNDARIES when it comes to interactions with your IOBs!!!!
Otherwise, you RISK LOSING YOUR FREEDOM (and quite frankly, your SANITY).
In the worst case, you could even end up FULLY MERGING with the IOB and if you want a taste of what that feels like, just read all the many posts in this forum.
Take their energy, but do NOT GIVE IN to their influence!!!!
Do NOT become their SLAVE!!!!
NO MATTER with what "shiny objects" or "other worlds" or "erotic forms" they try to SEDUCE you with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have been warned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Carlos was NOT a slave to any IOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don Juan even avoided them as much as possible.
DO NOT LET ANYONE TELL YOU OTHERWISE, EVER!!!!!!
FF
Can you point to some of those posts related to "merging"? I have been here for a while and haven't seen any...
Have you even conciously interacted with one? 😒
Absolutely. IOBs will naturally appear, once you practice every day. Some particular ones will be "with you" for a while.
This kind of “warriors” don’t actually reject the IOBs — they’ve never seen them — so what they really reject is magic.
If someone sees what’s real through their own effort, they’ll never be fooled by scammers, and that’s where those people lose...
And if we practiced magic with hats, then they would say:
“Stay away from those damn hats, you must live and die enslaved to money!"
Oh hey, it’s one of those Warner types that’s in the Bad Player list, that’s attack #2
Normally you’d be squashed like a bug in here!
My IOB said you’re already owned by another set of parasitic IOB’s through your fear. Let go of that fear and you’ll be ok.
Remember that the first thing Don Juan emphasized to Carlos ‘The secret is to not fear them!’.
:)
Do you mean to say that we lose our dimple thanks to interacting with IOBs?
It seems that Cleargreen doesn't teach much if it teaches warriors to value sanity.
"That's the reason why we can't say that warriors lose their minds," don Juan went on. "If they lose anything, they lose their dimple."
"What happens to the persons whose assemblage points lose rigidity?" I asked. "If they're not warriors, they think they're losing their minds," he said, smiling. "Just as you thought you were going crazy at one time. If they're warriors, they know they've gone crazy, but they patiently wait. You see, to be healthy and sane means that the assemblage point is immovable. When it shifts, it literally means that one is deranged."
What happens to the third attention that if you go you also become an iob, are you a kind of racist sorcerer??
Could you give an example of having strict boundaries when it comes to interactions with the iob's?
You are giving very crucial advice, it seems, if we are to risk losing our freedom otherwise.. but I'm missing the advice..or is this fearmongering? An attempt to a dark manipulative manoeuvre. A threat to our sanity?
So the advice is what exactly? There's a great warning you give, but what are you trying to warn us from?
You say in the worst case fully merging with an iob. The only references I can find in the books concerning that is that dJ says we must become one with our ally. Carlos also merged with the blue scout. Was that also a worst-case scenario according to you?.. what your saying is like the opposite as to what Carlos did to evolve.
Don Juan advised Carlos to set his intent up like an airport ( that’s a lot of refined, intelligent logistics).. do you have something to declare?- Then stand in line over there.. it is illegal to stand in line with nothing to declare when you have something to declare.. because of smuggling.
Sure. We learn to put up strict boundaries, but that's more to keep ourselves in line. It’s a particular type of iob that has enslaved us, and the differences between the iobs are greater than that of between organic life. The flier gave us its mind.
Perhaps CG took "your" energy but didn’t give in to your influence.. they certainly took your money. But hell, if you work hard enough, you could pay your way to becoming an instructor.. specializing in how to set up boundaries to stop being seducted by the iobs.. and avoid them as much as possible by putting up a frigid boundary to the other worlds and erotic forms and shiny objects. My god, how boring can you get? Getting seduced by an old woman like that whilst it comes over that you pay a lot for a brief entrance.
A holy investment
A scam
Strict boundaries indeed are needed to contain such a blob where it is to survive that immensity out there.
Maybe you're looking for sponsors for your CG quest. Actually, it's not a bad idea. We all chip in some to get you enough to go back there and become fully certified, then you can teach it to us.. oh, no, that wouldn't work. You'd be compromised because they obviously hold valuable secrets which are only reserved for those " privileged " few who have shown enough dedication in the form of.. moneyy. Is that the taking from their world without giving in to their influence that you are trying to preach here?
Erotic forms bro? If you can see energy directly you know that you are pressing these images onto them, maybe the one you need to control is yourself rather than the IOB?
🤣🤣🤣
This post has been restored because it could be informative to have a debate on Cleargreen's aversions to IOB interaction, which is HIGHLY LIKELY to be the reason they are so lame and undeveloped even after decades of time in which they could have gained some traction in the second attention. Directly.
Instead they seem firmly mired in the first enemy. FEAR. The residue of which upholds the inner dialogue and thus drives away the very thing they need to generate momentum towards a position where they wouldn't need the IOB's as much anymore.
They're stuck in a catch 22...
CG is not against IOB interaction. It is discussed often. This post here comes from me, not from CG. Sure, you need IOBs to go deep. But do not just engage with any random IOB, they are not all the same. Differentiate. Do not just be open to any IOB that shows up. If you do not feel its vibe, then do not play with it. And if an IOB "pushes" you to do sth., but you are not feeling it, then do not do it. You have a choice. The quotes posted are not a joke, they are very explicit statements. If you fall "asleep at the wheel", an IOB can end up using you as a mere vessel. If you do not show where the line is, it will just push you further and further. This is never discussed here. It is always like "yes, just interact with ANY IOB that appears". Without any differentiation. That is playing with fire. It is like indulging. You start believing that you are the Captain, and you end up being the sailor.
Do you mind me asking , how do you know what the relationship with IOBand Cleargreen is ? It’s clear that this Reddit group is against Cleargreen. I’m just asking because I really want to have proof , for my own sake, that Cleargrreen are as you say. I can’t see any motive for wanting to put down Cleargreen so you must have direct evidence of the statements you’re making ; Cleargreen have not conquered fear and by extension, this upholds internal dialogue , so they must still be suffering from internal dialogue after decades ? How do you know this about them ? Not just your own conjecture based on your bias , how do you know this as factual statements ?
The only price you’ll be paying is for a certification!!!!
I dunno man. I merged with mine and we chillin.
So dreaming emissary can’t lie, but is it compelled to answer? It could withhold information, pick and choose what info to give, answer questions with questions, or provide choices.
How humans understand and define deception, may not be the same for the IOBs.
How strange... I got an SK lecture on this topic last night.
Not something I really wanted to be watching, after enjoying a Studio Ghibli movie earlier in the evening.
From Ghibli magic, to greedy Reni... I actually had "videos in the air" of their misdoings. And of other "inner circle" people.
Oddly, Cholita was the only one who came out looking good.
Maybe Amy's book was partly designed to stimulate such flows of silent knowledge? About "what went wrong".
Man... Watching that SK sucked... Sorcery is difficult sometimes.
It's a pity Carlos didn't have access to the internet back in the early 90s. I'm pretty sure he'd have spent time looking for the perfect picture to go along with a lecture! Or have gotten Nyei to find it, as a teaching lesson to her.
Seeing something with your eyes, would add another level to the storytelling he used in classes. He used sound, but if he could have used any other sense, I'm sure he would have.
Each of the senses is a "hook" to reality streams. Something that becomes very obvious once you can view SK for sustained periods.
Even your skin is a hook to reality streams.
At any rate, this is merely more Cleargreen excuses for why they're so lame and can't make any of this work. They're disdaining the "evil spirits" and "egotistical magical powers", in favor of pretending to be saintly followers so that Carlos will take them to sorcery heaven when they die.
They turned it into a weird form of Catholicism.
Carlos used to lecture about how awful catholicism is, mostly to help
Amy. But possibly also, because he saw it as inevitable that people would try to turn sorcery into yet another fake religion.
Just FYI to new people: This is a technology. Not a religion.
It's like computers, or plumbing.
As soon as you try to turn it into a belief system, the magic vanishes.
It has to!
"Belief" is a dirty link to intent.
(continued)
It's not "what is", but "what you wish you could have".
That screams out, "NORMAL REALITY".
And pulls you away from the magical realms. It pulls your assemblage point back to where you grew up, and learned all of your petty social motivations.
As you can see in this post.
He's trying to turn his beliefs into a lecture to give us, to promote himself in social status. Without having any actual knowledge of this topic.
Maybe Carlos' "seeing" guided him to speak out against Catholicism.
Seeing does in fact take into account the future. But deliberately trying to peer into it, puts up a barrier that makes it impossible for this specific reality's future to come into focus.
You get alternate ones, that are mostly phantom.
Don Juan warned about how seeing fails, when you're too involved in the topic.
Anyone who's done work to learn to move their assemblage point, understands that perfectly.
But whatever the reason Carlos harped on how absurd Catholicism was, for several months, he was right. That's what all the hard work he and the witches did, has become.
It's no wonder the witches ditched cleargreen the instant Carlos was gone. Carol gave them a chance, but eventually figured out they'd turned evil. So she's off helping others in some other way.
"Seeing does in fact take into account the future. But deliberately trying to peer into it, puts up a barrier that makes it impossible for this specific reality's future to come into focus.
You get alternate ones, that are mostly phantom."
Once you can "see", it is not difficult to see the "future". However, mind you, seeing one particular "reality line" does not necessarily mean that this particular reality line is the one that will manifest. That is why it is a good idea to be aware of "self-fulfilling prophecies".
I have nothing to "teach", I am free to express what I see, perceive and feel. Again, I am a STUDENT. You can agree or disagree. But may I ask, why do you not address any of the CONTENT put forward?
Because you (aka the IOB in you) tries its hardest to avoid these discussions, even if they come from Don Juan himself. Why? Because many parts in the books do not fit the "IOB agenda" here, which is to ensure that in the future, there will be enough voluntary vessels at your disposal, in case "you guys" (the IOBs here) need to switch to a new vessel. Now tell me, is that a lie?
Allow me to re-phrase; what is your INTENT with regard to all the posts you make?
Writing ca. 100 pages daily, making all the animations etc. is not done for no reason.
And, as it is clear now, it certainly is not to "protect the reputation of Carlos"; he did not write a book on "inorganics"; but he wrote one on the "magical passes" and one on actual "dreaming"; yet this forum provides a misleading depiction; pretending that the 'world of Castaneda' is all about catching an IOB and getting seduced by it, so it shows you different worlds and objects, until one day, when the energy is used up and all that is left from "you" is an empty shell with no more energy in it. Do not go down this path. You have been warned by the NAGUAL (Don Juan) HIMSELF. If you refuse to listen, you WILL PAY THE PRICE. That is the "prediction" I am making here now, officially. Call it "seeing the future" if you will.
"Thus they try to extend your life by getting you to come live with them, which is then viewed by us, through some kind of christian theme of heaven and hell."
That is a very romantic way of putting it, Dan. I give "you" a new name now. INORDAN. Because at this point, to say that you "merged" with an IOB would be an understatement. And I can see that it was not even "little smoke", but something else (or even an iteration). Anyways. You make "your" choices.
But stop 'bending' any narrative you can find to push your "iob agenda",
in particular if that comes to bending the TRUTH around Carlos! That is a BOUNDARY "you" (=INORDAN) should start to finally RESPECT. I hereby command you to do so.
It is indeed fascinating to realize that all the things you write are a result of your interactions (and then becoming one) with an IOB. As I said, IOBs have more consciousness than humans. At the beginning, if one is new, it feels as if "Dan" is just a super-intelligent, super-committed Carlos-enthusiast. But after a few years of actually understanding Carlos's world (and visiting it!), it all becomes clear. This forum is in itself a "warning" to ANYONE, because you can literally SEE YOURSELF what can happen to you, if you do NOT impose boundaries on your IOBs. Once more, Don Juan has SAID IT IN VERY CLEAR TERMS! And even Carlos himself did NOT FALL SLAVE to any IOB. He knew where the BOUNDARY is. He played with them. He used them for seeing etc. But he refused to "get lost" in them.
Are you aware what Carol said after she merged with the death defier?
"I did not like what was there before it, but I neither liked what was there after it".
Let that sink in.
INORDAN, please STOP trying to take "ownership" of something that was never and will never be "yours". The world of Carlos Castaneda is NOT "yours", as much as you are trying to pretend it. Whoever used to be "Dan" was probably a really nice man; but in the end, he just played too much with things that always were beyond his own energy. It feels like "Dan" is no more, and that INORDAN will continue to write all that stuff every single day, trying to ensure that there will be enough vessels that are open to switch to, once the current vessel is "used up". REMEMBER, the "inorganics" do NOT have a physical body themselves!!!!! So can we even blame them? NO! For them, it is literally about "bodily" survival!
There is a reason why the apprenticeship with Don Juan took ca. 6 years, he prepared Carlos PROPERLY for the things that were about to happen. He made sure he had recapitulated enough, and that there was no EGO-stuff in the way. He made sure that Carlos experienced the second attention (and more), so that he would be prepared to become a sorcerer who does not suffer from weaknesses. THESE STEPS CANNOT BE SKIPPED, as much as you love to promote that. YOU are doing something DANGEROUS, because you are putting souls AT RISK, trying to convince them that there would not be severe risks. That is what an IOB would do. But it does not make it right. Most people will not be able to realize all that. At least, I tried to show that. Therefore, I have claimed my ENERGY back from this forum. It should NOT have the title of "Castaneda", it is entirely misleading. That cannot stay like that. But SPIRIT will take care of these things. I did my part.
The mushrooms aren't helping you bro they're making you crazy. Or you are using them to make yourself crazy. Do what you will, but without sobriety you will lose yourself.
His apprenticeship was from 1960-1973, with a hiatus part-way through of around six months to a year or so (as I recall).
The title of this sub was not our choosing. It was simply the only subreddit in 2019, that had any appreciable members at all; so that made it the only realistic space in which to revitalize things.
And the torch was passed to us by the woman who created it, who may have had some direct association with Carlos (there were certain, but vague, clues) in full knowledge of what our intent was.
And our veracity.
Just get lost again, please?
You've been harmful to others as long as you've been plaguing this subreddit. How many times do we have to try to figure out what to do about you, in private chat?
But... you're PERFECT for cleargreen...
Go worship Reni.
She seems to have created the idea that she's a saint, who can "see", and help others.
Reni will soon die, the jackals will fight over the Cleargreen carcass, and maybe you can become the next "Miles".
No, thank you. But again; what was the first thing "you" mentioned in your interview? It was "power". You say it all straight in the face of everyone, and they do not even see it. There is a reason why Carlos WARNED ABOUT THE OLD SEERS and their thirst for POWER in every book! Look what happened to them in the end! Now, that is certainly NOT ROMANTIC. And this group of "bullying loners" around yourself, with their "cynical, ego-driven" energy is not aware of the price, they gonna pay if they are "next" on your list. Again, you AVOID any of the content-wise points, but you try to cover it all up with personal attacks and ego-stuff. I do not care for that. But pressing you on making clear statements always leads to a DIVERSION. That in itself says it all. Because IOBs cannot lie.
When "you" were at the workshops, as you claimed, you were old enough to be selected for Carlos' inner circle. Could it be that you never forgave him that he did not do so? And as a result, you messed with the IOBs and then did all this here? Do you feel that this was the right thing to do? Look at the price you are paying! How can this be the way to go?
And, the only thing "harmful" to ACTUAL MAGIC is "your", so INORDAN's bending of the truth, created narratives, pre-planned personal attacks (with labels); and, worst of all, an INACCURATE, INCOMPLETE, SELECTED use of Carlos's teachings. THAT my dear, he will NOT FORGIVE you! You will need to come clean regarding that!
Did you really think that "accusing others" of saying incorrect things about Carlos would protect yourself from that allegation? Come on! That is not good enough.
Incredible, a full-on "exorcist": Inorganicdan, I command you to close your Reddit account now! Lol.
I believe he's gone forever!
The mods finally decided he'll never change.
He's only in it for the pretending.
One of his supporters did another attack, but seems to have deleted it. I can't find it to respond, even though it's in my notifications list.
Which makes me suspicious that if you have a cleargreen bad player come to attack here, you should expect 2 more with user IDs that have no history.
Who "escalate" each time you response honestly to them.
Even if you're only trying to snap them out of pretending, in the hopes they'll actually decide to learn for real.
They start out very polite, like a "good" cleargreen representative.
But their heads quickly explode!
They have to...
They're brainwashed!
No one likes to be deprogrammed.
Still, you learn things from them that you didn't know.
Such as that Reni is indeed pretending to be a saint, who has "the second sight" and can help people using her "seeing".
Seeing is one of those things everyone who's pretending eventually claims, because they figure no one can call them out on it.
But we can...
Because "seeing" isn't vague at all!!!!
Anyone who actually learned to see, would go around screaming from the highest building, trying to get others to learn so that they'll realize how amazing this magic is.
When it's just Saint Reni "helping people", that's a sure sign it's yet more pretending.
Often it's people teaching Tai Chi on the side, who claim "I can see". Which makes sense, because Tai Chi is nonsense and filled with delusions.
(Pity... it could be fixed.)
You also get the "I lost my human form" scam among people who never actually learned sorcery but want others to believe they did.
Another thing they believe you can't disprove.
And I’d add to that list all those “third gate dreaming while asleep” stories, from people who don’t even understand that it’s about movements of the assemblage point — and who are, in fact, stuck in the blue, and ignoring that is precisely what keeps them from jumping. “Impossible to see anything from here, sir.” It’s impossible to see or say anything true until you get out of the blue, and then maybe you’ll be able to see all those worlds and try not to go insane with joy at how intense and absurd it all is: no one would believe you even if you managed to remember it, and then to describe it.
Meanwhile, these kinds of “attackers” basically sound like people complaining that there’s no catch in a “baitless fishing” mode — since none of the ocean’s inhabitants want to stray from the true path to magic, which is public, free, without lineages, without nagual blows, and energetically boosted by IOBs, in order to find the right “leadership” in SK.
So those who couldn’t admit it in the past should now reconsider that we’re all students here — and therefore we will try to maintain a setup suited for study, not for pretending, showing off, worshipping, or generating profit. Opposing our autonomous, free, voluntary learning system means we’ll defend ourselves by pushing back against their annoying presence.
And if they get scared by the most superficial glimpse of the daily lives of witches and sorcerers, then it’s clear they’re not ready for what comes next on the J-Curve...
Will someone ever make a guide for the bad player? I wonder: what should the markers be to measure a bad player’s toughness? Time on stage, number of comments and downvotes, persistence, acting as a swarm? I remember reading about clashes with one or two “tough” bad players in “old” posts. Compared to them, this one seems more like a “Kamikaze Exorcist Messenger” or “Zombie Exorcist.”
If you’re an “opportunistic” IOB, you’ve got half your dinner solved if, from a distance, you see some guy shouting incantations — but you immediately move away if you see he’s “rotten” and can’t even perceive you…
Here we are practitioners of sorcery, which means we want to interact with IOBs, following the instructions left by Carlos, in collaboration with inorganic energy and with the intent of the sorcerers of Ancient Mexico.
Plus IOBs look really good in clingy miniskirts.
Here's how "Fancy" used to teach me new magic.
LITERALLY!!!
But unfortunately once you reach the orange zone, they can't seem to look that real anymore.
One day maybe we'll understand why, but for those who never saw them get quite this real, don't forget about the story in the books where Vicente's 3 allies appear to Carlos, as people with a broken down car on the side of the road.
Right after he places in the ground and waters 3 little pants Vicente gave him.
In the case of Fancy, I never got to examine her close up, like a real bein gmade of physical matter.
But I got to see her looking this real, for a good 10 minutes.
Fairy on the other hand, let me examine her very close up, like moving my head within 4 inches of all parts of her body.
And she was indistinguishable from a real woman.
Except....
My room was pitch black!!!
You tend to forget that at the time. And you don't notice, she's laying on the wooden floor, and you can see that too.
How can a person rod themselves of IOB ‘s that have attached themselves to you ? Is there a magical pass or command one can pronounce to be free of them. I have asked them to leave with no success. I believe I was connected to an IOB as a child, and have been unable to experience the first attention fully due to the over powering influence/ energy domination they have exerted over me. I DO have a profound fear of death and of the unknown. Fear that because the IOB come from a different attention, i feel they must have an advantage over me because they are inorganic. I know that it is probably an issue of conquering fear. But with the energy fields and presence of the IOB , especially in my left hand side , it’s like having been ensconced in a bubble of viscous energy vibrating and blocking off my conne to the first attention. Like being under water .
“take their energy but not give in to their influence” that advice from Don Juan says it all. there is need to have any fear; but just make sure to “stand your ground”; this is about caution. most iobs are neutral. however, if you just “give in”, like many here carelessly do, you will end up being just a vessel. the consciousness of iobs is far beyond the one of humans. the iobs I work with know me well by now, but it took effort to show what I am okay with and where I draw the line. It is like with everything; if you indulge too much; there will be a price to pay. If you smoke every day, do not complain if you get lung cancer. If you do psychedelics every week, do not complain if you end up cooking your brains. and if you play around with random iobs, this without having prepared yourself with a few years of recap, not-doing, tensegrity, stalking etc., you can end up being “easy prey”. and at this point, it feels to me that the reason this forum is actually promoting unprepared interaction is that it is actually iobs who control this place here. They are simply preparing their next vessels. But if you actually read the books carefully; you would find the respective warnings there, like the one I quoted. Your choice. And of course; you do not want to hear that you have to do things properly, this over years; like Don Juan prepared Carlos. Even he complained “oh no, not recap again!”. But Don Juan insisted. You can either do things properly and prepare yourself. Or you can just try to “force silence” and be easy prey in the other domain. Carlos would not promote the latter. He put a lot of effort into developing and preparing people. Years. It is your choice; are you REALLY committed to this? Then do things properly, even if it takes time. Or, be “cheap” and get fed to other beings (with a consciousness level far beyond yours). This forum is actually a real-life demonstration / warning to what can happen to you if you do not pay attention to what that implies.
these vessels mentioned;
because it seems like you're the one changing things, not us...
Don't you think that this will work against us? ..I mean, if we go imposing boundaries.. so would they? Where will that lead to?
No, it would not, they know exactly what they are doing. They will always want to play. They are very curious and excited about human emotions and energy. But this is not a "collective" choice. It is an individual one. All I did is draw your attention to what Don Juan said. It was not a joke and neither an exaggeration. It is about CAUTION. If the Nagual said this, we better FULLY understand what he meant. Otherwise, look what the result is.
What did you mean by " But this is not a collective choice"? - I mean, where 's that coming from?