Possibly one reason that Carol Tiggs never actually got out her bullwhip and used it to insist we work harder, and maybe even to give us a quick slap on the butt when it became obvious our internal dialogue was dominating us, is because in fact, removal of the internal dialogue does not actually move the assemblage point.
And until you move it, and hold it in a new position, there's "nothing to see".
No "magic in your face".
And without magic in your face, we all come to believe that this system is a gigantic fraud, like everything else out there.
The fake magical systems that seem to produce results, do so by giving you a substitute, for your internal dialogue.
You NEVER learn to get rid of it. Even the Buddha never even got close to that.
But instead you swap in something else that alters how strongly your assemblage point is fixed on ordinary reality, and then you fill the "devotee's" mind with delusional stories of how great they'll be, and how magical, if they just take that "Advanced Workshop #4".
If they sit in meditation as part of the fake magic system, then they replace the internal dialogue with something else, and while desperately hoping to finally notice something and become "superior to others", and also "egoless", they'll eventually get bored, doze off, and have a little vision.
That's why people who have been clearly wasting their time for 20 years, get angry and INSIST their technique is working.
Except that, when you start to ask them about doing the kind of things obviously shown on this social media, or in the books of Carlos Castaneda, even using pictures and detailed instructions to get people started towards the real thing, with feedback from others, all they can do is claim that "you lie sir!"
So how to straighten out the misunderstanding regarding what constitutes "it works"?
If I knew that, we'd have a much better success rate in here.
Pictures and cartoons was the best I could think of.
But one tip that's important to keep in mind is, removal of the internal dialogue DOES NOT move the assemblage point.
Only "magic" can do that.
It's rule #1 of darkroom practice, as given to us by the friendlier of the two allies Carlos left us.
If you gaze at something that "can't possibly be there", in silence, the assemblage point moves.
And to clarify that, the silence doesn't actually move it.
It's the thing which "can't possibly be there".
This becomes more important, the further you go.
Eventually you'll be silent enough to view "Cyclic Being Worlds".
Alternate positions of the assemblage point, which belong to worlds which don't drain you, when you are perceiving them.
Worlds you can even switch over to, to live "over there".
Unfortunately the version of "you", "over there", is clueless about sorcery.
So that "seers" likely don't just pick a better life, because the better versions of reality don't come with an escape plan.
But that's not 100% true.
in the past, some sorcerers are said to have brought entire villages along with them, to a "better place".
Perhaps by bringing others along, they preserved their escape path.
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silence is the fuell .
i would prefer the metaphor of "releasing the brakes", but i'm a lazy noob and i might be wrong.
well i used fuell becasue it needs some quantity to get you somewhere it piles up energy (we all noobs and there is no lazyness )
I know everything you have told us is true. The one thing about this group and path is the INTENSITY of the practice. So we can go to one of the hundreds of other worlds. I can understand this and may have experienced it. Can't remember much. But I'm wondering how to bring someone with us, or a group of us. By jumping grooves, was that what Csrlos was talking about?
Also, the claw technique can be used to heal. Can we use it to heal someone else? I know this tradition doesn't focus on healing, but I know it's possible. And I know magic and miracles are not only possible in here, but they are inevitable.
Despite how much I've learned over the years, I have this place to thank for helping me realize how much I don't know.
>But I'm wondering how to bring someone with us, or a group of us.
You almost surely can't.
That's the problem with sorcery. The reason it's so rare.
Originally, it was taught only to very small children.
Maybe just 3 years old!
Given to the "old seers".
Those learn whatever their parent figure wants them to, and they learn 3 times faster than any adult can.
Then later, once that wasn't practical, sorcerers formed groups of 15, centered around a "double being" male and female.
Those can slap on your back, and instantly transport you into dreaming realms.
By displacing your assemblage point down the middle, to the other side of the body.
That's how they shared dreaming.
Without those double beings, of whom we have none, each person has to earn their own ability to do that.
And chances of you finding even 1 more person who will work that hard, is close to 0.
We've had 20,000 flow through our social media, and only got a few dozen.
And none got far enough so far, to reliable share dreaming.
Yet.
Unfortunately, people in fake magical systems make up stories about sharing dreaming all the time.
None of which are true.
And as a group, they learn to misrepresent ordinary dreams as successes.
Which is why we discourage people in here from trying to use their sleeping dreams, and insist on dreaming awake as much as possible.
>Also, the claw technique can be used to heal. Can we use it to heal someone else?
Don Juan taught it to Carlos, to help his friend Carobeth Laird heal.
Who coincidentally was my friend also, back when I was 10 years old.
Carlos went to the hospital and taught it to her on her death bed, and also coincidentally, my father visited on the same day. And told me about it back around 1976 or so.
But it didn't work for her. She wouldn't follow instructions I suspect.
And sorcerers aren't healers, although some give it a try.
I doubt they have much success.
Each person has their own assemblage point, and no one who isn't a "double being" can force them to move it.
Carlos couldn't heal himself, and got sick all the time.
He was seriously diabetic, which is very hard on the internal organs.
Eventually dying of liver failure.
If you try to learn our sorcery with any motivation other than that you want to see real magic, daily, just for your own sake, you'll almost surely fail.
Yes, I understand.
But I do believe we have some double beings lurking in the shadows. Hopefully we can do what we can convince them to come out of the woodwork.
I remember you spoke about motivations in a previous. I think motivation #4, to escape the BS, can be enough to get others to at least see magic. In seeing magic daily, their primary motivation will be just to see magic daily, for themselves. And by helping themselves, they can truly help those around them.
I’m a bit surprised that a Nagual wouldn’t learn to heal themself.
Carlos explained. He'd used up all of his energy helping us. He was counting on "energetic mass" to allow him to "jump grooves", but you know how lazy people in our community are, so he never got it.
He'd managed to "jump grooves" and heal in the past.
So we pretty much killed him.
I look at what's there, but I try not to have any expectation about it. The other day I saw some yellowy/green stuff surrounding my hands when I grabbed something behind me and then flung it in front of me. It just came out of nowhere. Like today, I saw a burst of purple spots, it also came out of nowhere. Just not sure how one should focus on that. Or what's the right level of focus; to focus on something like that impassively without caring about it? Or look at "with fine detailed examination" ? Or some other approach? This topic has been doing my head in for ages.
As don Juan said to Carlos when Carlos wanted some "tips", those aren't useful to anyone else but the person who did that.
It's just "what they themselves did". And won't help anyone else.
If you think about it, it makes sense.
The assemblage point can take on so many positions that it's nearly uncountable. And each one has an uncountable number of permutations, since all of the emanations present at that specific location, are never used. Only a very tiny fraction become involved in making a reality.
The fraction chosen, is likely based on how those emanations were used in the past, and if any weren't used, those don't activate.
Thus how can another person "lead" anyone?
I don't mean to say I don't have my own tips, and some of them very good.
But they just aren't of use to anyone else.
Don Juan did in fact give a tiny bit of advice, such as using your peripheral vision.
And he was also caught making funny faces and squinting when he was trying to do something specific, for Carlos.
Fair enough, that makes sense.
Well, don't forget that the puffs are the most reliable manifestation, since they are actually your dreamer.
And that's lured out if you reduce your internal dialogue, and do tensegrity so that you make the energy body (dreamer) curious.
Also, the inorganic beings can hijack those puffs, and manifest clearly.
Doesn't the "something that can't possibly be there" appear after the assemblage point moves a little (i might be totally wrong here)? How does the assemblage point get that initial movement without the "something that can't possibly be there"?
Yes, most likely it drifts, or you fall asleep for an instant and it can move, and then the thing "appears".
Happens all the time, even to non-sorcerers!
But they shake their head, rub their eyes, and make it go away.
That's one thing you stop doing when you get further along.
"Making stuff go away" by doing a double take if something is odd, and turning quickly to check it out and prove it wasn't anything you don't understand.
Later, you just keep walking and don't turn to look at something impossible, standing in your path.
As to how it gets the initial movement, Tensegrity is designed to do that, if you're silent.
But "the right way of walking" can also cause it to move.
And if you force yourself silent for a long time, you'll doze off for sure, even if you don't actually fall over and go to sleep.
You'll send up "sleep walking", and suddenly you'll be looking at stuff through the eyes of your dreamer, despite being awake.
Yes, I understand. Or at least I will be trying my best.
I do believe we have some double beings lurking in the shadows. Hopefully we can do what we can convince them to come out of the woodwork.
I remember you spoke about motivations in a previous comment. I think motivation #4, to escape the BS in the river of shit, can be enough to get others to at least see magic. In seeing magic daily, their primary motivation will be just to see magic daily, for themselves. And by helping themselves, they can truly help those around them.
This might be against the ethos of sorcery, but do you ever think about making a 'timeline' of potential progress. Ie "at 50 days of 3 hrs/day of work you should be seeing x, and then at 100 days, x" or something like that? I'm not sure what I should expect, and so it's hard to track if I'm doing things correctly.
I'm afraid that might be harmful to people who read it, even though it might function to warn them when they need to work harder, or motivate them when they can check off a box.
It's the self-pity thing, but that's impossible to explain until you see what it's like to be fully free from it for a few minutes a day.
Also, "the Spirit" literally figures out a series of gifts it can give you, and those gifts consist of such a wide variety of magic, that no single person could ever even see 1/100,000th of it along the way.
The old seers amassed countless astonishing techniques, and perfected them over thousands of years.
A few even got passed down to us, in the Tensegrity.
But if you work hard, keep a journal of "what happened to me from the blue zone, to the purple zone".
That wouldn't be harmful to anyone, any more than "what happened to me on my visit to Italy for 6 months."
No one is going to be angry that you left out Sacro Bosco di Bomarzo.
Man... Those Italians are kind of nasty.
Carol Tiggs' benefactor don Juan tells us in general terms how attaining inner silence automatically causes a shift in the position of the assemblage point:
"The internal dialogue is what grounds us. The world is such and such or so and so, only because we talk to ourselves about its being such and such or so and so. The passageway into the world of shamans opens up after the warrior has learned to shut off his internal dialogue."
"The internal dialogue is the key. When it stops, the world collapses and extraordinary facets of ourselves surface, as though they had been heavily guarded by our words."
Reference: Castaneda, Carlos. Tales of Power, 1974
But we still have to notice it, and walk through the metaphorical door.
That's part of what Dan's point is with this post, that we shouldn't be static or rest in silence. We have to make a move to actually NAVIGATE.
Thanks, because I was under this exact misconception. I have focused largely on inner silence and done well there but see very little. I do see the purple puffs and sometimes have visions of colored shapes and even beings and such, but nothing vibrant or vivid. It’s slow going.
Beings is the most hilarious one for me. I saw a Mexican woman yesterday when I was practising. She'd wavy black hair and bright red lipstick. I was like, WT actual F lol.
Wow, all that talent and all you needed was someone to emphasize what to seek out more often.
Fortunately, the tensegrity is filled with advice on what to seek out.
Carlos even claimed he'd "saturated us" with it.
So that given a circumstance, we'd just "know what to do".
Taisha Abelar in the radio interview at the end-
" There are many techniques to shut off the internal dialogue- but that is not enough.. just to have it quiet inside is fine but what happens when you get back to work and you’re surrounded by people and an angry boss or at home and your children and people are yelling at you you want to be able to have silence and equnamity and resolve in any situation.
So we were always sent back to work situations where we would practice stopping the internal dialogue.. not really sitting in zazen or in a cave or some place where you can practice meditation.
I have some buddhist monks who came over to visit and they said it was very difficult to keep their equamity, their silence.
And the Chinese went up into the mountains where the daoist temples were and more or less turned them into tourist spots. The monks say that now the world has entered their domain they have destroyed some of the silence that they have built up which is true but sorcerers say- build up your silence not on a mountaintop but within yourself and that is what quietning the internal dialogue means to us".
I like it!
And the witches might still be around. My guess is Zuleica's house.
Carlos married one of them at the end,. and I now realize, that's because his social security would be somewhere around $4000 month these days, and a wife gets to keep the husband's social security.
So no one was planning that they'd jump off a cliff and take Kylie with them!
I'm even going to marry Cholita, for just that reason.
So she can have my social security when I die.
If I can figure out, how to convince her to go along with it.
She doesn't think much more than 1 hour into the future.
Another quote from earlier on in the same interview, the host asked about Manfred..
"Pacts and agreements between sorcerers they last forever, for eternity. They transcend the realm of everyday life. We want to move out of this realm..we're not interested in human love. In replacing human love as soon as there's something better. A sorcerers affection stays forever, it cannot be replaced. We can not change the head of a person and now you're living with someone else. No those vows stay forever and we had this agreement ..I'm still in touch with Manfred because he is pulling me. He went with don Juan"
See!
That lame "I'm happy to just be here now" quote is very misleading.
No sorcerer is happy to "be here now"!
That's the main problem all of humanity has.
They can only access here, and now. And block out everything else available to us.
This came up in chat, because Cleargreen is pitching their "be here now" workshops where there's no magic, and they teach you how to feel about things.
How to "know when you have power".
What the hell????
You have power when your floor splits apart, and you can see a train station in Japan down there, with a woman beckoning you to grab her wrist, and pull her into the real world.
AWAKE! Not in some closed eye meditation delusion.
You DON'T have power, when you are being "mindful".
That's just being a buddhist cult zombie.
But apparently Cleargreen finds plenty of paying customers, for pretending their sorcery.
Absolutely, that was also made pretty clear when they were discussing dreaming in that interview. The host was trying to find similarities with astral travel and talked about a technique that they would take all of their memories and throw it in a dumpster(!) ..and then go astral travel.. so she had to explain that this was completely different.. as the recapitulation was 🔑. Also she mentions it as physical energy.
They sure slurped up a lotta attention with that be here now thing. Mindful buddhist cult zombies 🧟♂️ I see it now, the glasses are on like in that film " They Live" 😄 It's not even an exaggeration sometimes.
The odd thing is that in Asia, they realize the truth:
"It's just a religion."
But somehow westerners who represent it here, pretend it's a magical system.
And have even convinced some in our own community that Dzogchen has the same level of magic as Castaneda.
When in fact, it has none at all.
And if you look for some which stands out on the internet, typically you can find someone who debunked it as a fraud.
Like this guy, but he's not uncommon:
He's sitting on a metal seat attached to a lever,. and someone behind all the decorations is lifting him up.
That's common in Nepal.
Meanwhile, Choita and I have leaped across treetops for tens of miles.
She even hovers in the air 1 or two feet up, while you're standing right next to her, and can clearly see there's no possible trick involved.
Other than whether she's in her physical body, or in her double.
This is the most convincing Asian magic man video I've seen:
Especially the part with the kid screaming.
Yea, I've seen that.
It's not convincing to me.
So I'd rather not watch it again.
It's darned easy to light paper on fire like that.
I used to do it as a child using my little chemistry set.
Not to mention, there's a task force in Thailand to go after fakers who do just the kind of things in that video. Many from Hong Kong.
They commonly target senile lonely old asian woman.
There's a business next door to mine that does that.
If anyone else watches it and the kid thing is worth looking at, let me know.
But that video passed through here years ago.
And no one was convinced.
Plus if you were, what can you do about it?
Fly over there and try to get someone to teach you what looks to be perfectly ordinary Asian pretending?
The fire part could be a parlor trick. But all the Americans getting electrocuted in the video and the people being demonstrated on would have to be in on it.
I'll wait and see if anyone else thinks it's worth looking at again.
It was already posted in here as "proof".
It didn't convince anyone back then.
Did you ask the AI about the people doing what you believed was evidence of real magic?
It's amazing what range of information it's been trained on.
It knew my levitation guy, and also who debunked him. And it even came up with pictures of how to do that at home.
And pointed out, that guy who looks like a monk, speaks perfect english.
By the way, I also used to electrocute people, when I was a child.
I was a "bad science nerd".
Electric shock was one of my favorite tricks.
I think it's probably real, though it's not certain. Could be like 50-50 or 40-60 or 60-40 chance of being parlor trick.
They used a metal detector to see if had any hidden equipment surgically installed in his body.
As regards "skeptics" like James Randi, it was also the official story and common knowledge that Castaneda was fraud, all his books were made up, there was don Juan, etc.
Yea except that, we've gotten this magic working and it's precisely as Carlos described.
Even the flaws such as not being able to remember something you did only seconds ago, is true.
There's no way any person could be intelligent enough to make up a system like ours, all by themselves.
And there's nothing like it out there, to copy.
Otherwise, I'd say it's totally nonsense at first glance.
That's a given!
Fortunately we don't have any "dignity" to protect here, because in fact this magic actually works. And no one is making money from it.
I would surmise that those same skeptics would be baffled by, or outright dismiss, the reality behind this single scene in a popular mainstream film:
They're they types who are COMPLETELY FOOLED by the seamless illusion!
Actually, I just remembered how "he did it".
The entire video is staged. It's not an honest researcher recording a strange phenomena.
It's entirely a setup.
I believe if you go back and find the original post of that video, we ended up discovering that.
I could be wrong though, it was a very long time ago.
And that floating Buddhist was an entirely staged video in the form that caused that famous debunker (who uses the "V for Vendetta" masked guy as his logo), to go look into it.
I think your intuition is pretty bad when it comes to this. Like it's pretty obvious to me, that the guy is real, but it doesn't particularly matter because he's fucking dead man.
Also with Dr. Ingram, I don't see the point in ragging on him and pretending he's only been to the green zone, when it's pretty obvious he's been to the red zone and orange zone.
And your whole thing of tearing down any other candidates for real magic seems more like an OCD thing, than something that actually makes sense.
Cholita agrees.
Cholita's the one that can levitate objects and people though, so you should take her opinion on stuff seriously.
And an example of real magic, would be after a 2-week fire kasina retreat Dr. Ingram was able to manipulate his wife's energy channels during sex, to give her pleasure in her body without touching her.
He also said he's seen an old woman do spoon-bending before with big kitchen spoons, and he said a monk was able to read his mind. Those are just two examples.
Seriously????
Anyway, Ingram can't be trusted because he can't see clearly enough to realize that Buddhism is based on self-pity, and self-pity drives away magic.
You really need to be self-pity free over and over, and then stare into infinity and watch magic flow freely, before you'll realize the ugly trap Ingram has fallen into.
Also, you're equating an occasional weird experience, with magic daily, for hours.
Without the magic daily for hours, you can't get much further than being able to tell interesting stories.
Magic isn't like this at all:
No, the point being that if Ingram was actually able to do that for real, that's pretty impressive, and an example of real magic.
Maybe you could do it too, if you were not celibate.
Too bad we don't have any women who will fess up about Cleargreen orgies.
This seems to be a path without lineages.
And the fact that Dan is celibate does not limit the sexual magic that the rest of the community may want to practice, so Ingram’s thing is not impressive for me.
Making cards appear may impress macaques, but it is not true magic. Masturbating others without touching them seems "silly" compared to the possibility of changing form and making love.
As a frequent explorer, I can say that Ingram’s effects correspond to the green zone and might perhaps reach red, and he will never reach orange with all that baggage...
I am also concerned that the focus on “searching for cool people” prevails instead of “searching for how to make magic.” We care far too much about whether a guy claims he can do something incredible, but we never seriously ask how we could do it ourselves with the technology left by Carlos.
And for those who are not celibate, sexual magic will be a natural result of their practice, not an isolated story meant to keep alive the illusion of followers or a marriage.
What of zangbeto by African tribes, that's pretty convincing
Point to it!
There's no discussing something based on anecdotes or "eye witnesses".
Point to it on the web, and we can compare if it looks convincing, or more like a money making operation. And see if it's linked to any discussion group (like this one), where it's obviously working for people who attempt to learn it.
My guess is, you can't do that.
Keep in mind, this isn't about being closed minded.
It's about the fact that we're absolutely surrounded by profiteers pretending to have magic.
Every single culture worldwide has some, so there's perhaps 10,000 fake magic varieties where people who have something to gain, will INSIST it works.
When clearly it doesn't, if you can lay it all out in a single place you can examine.
Fake magic propagates in darkness.
well then you got me there, all i got is a video showing the stuff but no magic explanation afterwards or groups to learn
That's how it always is.
Worse, a lot of those "look at this magic man!" videos aren't even tricks.
I always look to see how the trick is done, not realizing, even the film crew was in on the scam.
So that the trick is very obvious sometimes, but you figure the "documentary people" wouldn't fall for how you think it was done, so you rule that out.
But in fact, all of it was staged. Like a movie.
Even the Discovery Channel has been found to stage magic.
There's a good guy for debunking stuff out there. Uses that "V" for victory movie guy's face as his logo.
Not that there isn't a tiny chance of some real magic in African practices.
That's one of the places you might think to look, due to the isolation of some tribes, which are very old.
But why would someone with real magic go around giving demonstrations of it which don't serve any purpose but to promote them in the eyes of others?
That just gets you killed if people believe you can really do that, and you become too famous.
The way things are these days, just about anything can get you killed.
If "influencers" freak out, and imply what you're doing is evil.
You get thousands of paranoid schizophrenics who follow "weird stuff" videos obsessed over it, and when their life begins to fully collapse, they'll pack up their stuff, rent a car, and go kill the source of their delusion.
So that at least, they go out doing something "important".
Cholita used to be an angry leftie, not she's an angry right winger.
One radio show host flipped her.
She can't listen to anything on Youtube without delusions creeping in regarding that topic, or that it's somehow speaking to her directly.
I've tried to follow her interests, but it always just seems like some guy manipulating the crazy people in his audience.
So here's a very workable rule of thumb. Not perfect, but nearly so.
If they're giving public demonstrations someone can video tape, it's a trick or an outright fraud.
Might be an exception to this some day, but if someone really had magic wouldn't they be out there doing their utmost to pass it on, before they die?
It's not like there's tons of real magic around anymore.
So magic is PRECIOUS.
And african or mexican, someone who had the real thing would want badly to transfer it to someone else.
Who has abundant food in a world that's starving, and doesn't try to help others?
Not someone with real magic, is my theory.
You just have to see some of it on a regular basis, to realize the truth of what I say.
Aside from the fact that the most 👀 stuff he does could be replicated with a lighter bought with pocket change at a quickie mart, and a juiced-up joy buzzer, what is the actual pragmatic use to being somewhere in between a hum-drum human and an off-label electric eel?
There's nothing magical about electricity, or pragmatic benefit to being a human battery, in the 21st century.
The theoretical total potential power of all the cells in the human body is in the trillions of volts
i knew a person that could do that, in person, reliably, to anyone, nobody could explain how (we assumed it was a trick somehow and still do) but he never ever once said it was a trick and insisted it was real "mind power" all his life.
i'm still not sure what to make of it.
this is what i was missing.