On January 28th, at the beginning of a month-long social media break, I was writing in my journal late at night, on my balcony. Even though I was tired, I had connected with something good that was pushing me to keep writing. I took a break, rolled a cigarette, and leaned my head back in the chair to catch my breath, closing my eyes. There was enough silence inside me — I focused my awareness on my body and followed the sensation up to my head.
That's when I saw the center we have in our head as a circular vibratory white energy field from which a white thread comes out, being moved back and forth by a disgusting black hand that was manipulating the thread. In that instant, it hit me with total certainty: That's the Flyers feeding off me right now. I am seeing it. Exactly as Don Juan describes in Magical Passes, which I confirmed many days later:
it didnt have the long nails but i added them to highlight the creepines of it.. Other than that my drawing is as close as it gets
>"That sixth center of energy," he said, "does not quite belong to man." We human beings are under siege, so to speak. It is as if that center has been taken over by an unseen enemy. I see energy, and I see that the energy over the center on the top of the head doesn't fluctuate like the energy of the other centers. It has a back and forth movement, quite disgusting, and quite foreign."
I opened my eyes. The disgust and fear I experienced were unlike anything I had ever felt before. I knew with my whole being that at that moment — as in every moment, my entire life — I am food for these entities. I wanted to run and save myself, but I also knew there was nowhere to go, as they were inside me and outside me.
My assemblage point had shifted to the position of silent knowledge, as knowledge began coming through with unmached clarity and a voice started speaking to me.
The shift was such that I knew and experienced that I will die and I have no time. Until then, Don Juan's words to Carlos — that he has no time and needs to act with death as his advisor — had never truly resonated inside me, as is natural that they won't resonate with the ordinary person. It is not coincidental that throughout his entire teaching Don Juan insisted on this, since it was not simply a frightening statement meant to make you work. It is a real fact that I had the privilege of experiencing firsthand. I will die and I have no time. Simply because I will die — and I will die as food for the predator.
This statement "you have no time, you will die" came again and again from the voice. It was easy to have a dialogue with this voice, and I can say with absolute certainty that it was the most sober being I have ever encountered in my life. The voice itself told me that people have no reference point for sobriety if they have not interacted with a real sorcerer of our lineage. Very simply: if they don't experience it from the outside, they cannot perceive it — and again, if they don't practice it, they cannot perceive it.
The Flyers are inside us. All human constructs, structures, beliefs, fabrications, mentalities, ways of thinking — everything we have built that keeps us bound — all human misery and wretchedness is made from the mind that the Flyers have given us. The purpose is one: to keep our energy locked there. Not only is the mind theirs, but they also move us from the outside by manipulating the center of our head, reinforcing all this human stupidity that we have taken for granted as part of ourselves our entire lives.
The voice told me that the difference between the sorcerers of our lineage and other spiritual systems is that the real seers were FREE beings — and real freedom comes when the Flyers' mind and their influence leave. The incredible feats of the seers were purely the result of this work.
It was emphasized to me many times: "Now you cannot go back, because now you see. You are no longer like other people. Now you know the truth and you cannot go back. Now you see."
I remained in this assemblage point position for several hours, and the focus was on learning the practice of sobriety. Sobriety is a stance toward the things that happen inside us and outside us. It was explained to me that sobriety is the result of inner discipline and inner meter for me. Of course, after reading the Mud Shadows chapter from The Active Side of Infinity, I can say it aligns very closely with what Don Juan was telling Carlos there and throughout all the books.
It was emphasized several times that the practice of inner discipline and inner meter needs to be uninterrupted work ALL THE TIME. "You must be constantly, without stop, on guard because of your nature. You can be swept away at any second. You will lose battles — but you must not lose the war." Until then I didn't understand why Don Juan kept telling Carlos that he was indulging. I couldn't even grasp what that "indulging" meant. Now I can understand it, but putting it into words to make it accessible is still difficult. I can say with certainty that we humans have a tendency to give in to our inner moods and our inner stupidity without a trace of clarity. We indulge in our emotions, thoughts, beliefs, impulses, and our interpretation of things — without awareness — and we don't realize that in doing so, the only thing we are doing is feeding our energy directly to the Flyers.
During this experience I understood why half of Don Juan's teaching was purely about changing his students in their ordinary awareness. The practice of impeccability is an incredibly difficult process whose purpose is the attainment of sobriety.
Carlos and his companions had only one goal: to see some people raise their glowing coat of awareness above their toes — meaning to make a real change, as Florinda also said in one of her radio interviews. That is what the Flyers consume, and the only way for it to grow is through sobriety.
It is such difficult and long-term work that for as long as Carlos was in this world he did not see it happen, and so he said he had failed. I understand this completely. It is not coincidental that Carlos revealed this in his last book and Don Juan called it the "topic of topics":
>You have arrived, by your effort alone, to what the shamans of ancient Mexico called the topic of topics. I have been beating around the bush all this time, insinuating to you that something is holding us prisoner. Indeed we are held prisoner! This was an energetic fact for the sorcerers of ancient Mexico."
In our situation here things are different. We already have a foundation of people who shift their assemblage point daily and have reached a good level. And this way works. I would not be here with this post if it didn't.
I am not sharing this knowledge to encourage people to drown in the pretense of practicing impeccability and doing something — we have seen for years that this only leads to illusions. The knowledge I received is simply a confirmation that the teachings of the books are irrefutably true. We are so privileged to be having available all this knowledge from the lineages so we can verify it, using it to advance on their steps in the intent of the sorcerers of the ancient Mexico.
And finally: the subject of the Flyers was never among my interests. What I knew came from what was written here in the sub, and I had never read the Mud Shadows chapter, which confirms everything I wrote. I chose to convey in my own words many of the things I was told — not all of them, since I don't yet have access to everything, can’t sort it in chronological order still and some of it is tailored to my own circumstances.
And yes, after this experience in the following days I saw them again. Saw them in daylight as shadows with the corner of my eyes . Saw them in darkroom gazing for what they are. Black shadows flowing around leaping and landing around me. Unfortunately it landed on me making a buzzing sound covering me almost entire like a blanket because my silence and sobriety from the terror was crap and only when I was getting sober and silent I could see it literally leaving me and leaping next to me.
58 Comments
I remembered an episode from Elizabeth Gilbert's book "Big Magic". This book is about creativity, not magic. The author abandoned the novel and did not tell anyone the plot. In the chapter "What the hell?" the specific idea of the novel about building a road in Brazil flew from Elizabeth's mind to the mind of her colleague-friend. The idea of an abandoned novel began to grow in another head after their first meeting. Elizabeth talks about geniuses - these are spirits from Roman mythology who carried ideas.
Probably, most flyers involve people in stupid things, but I think they are not absolute evil, but just mechanisms, as in the "Matrix". They maintain the usual order according to a given program. And there are also creative flyers, which Gilbert somehow described.
holy moly, that's soooo creapy 😬🫣
Carlos verified the back and forth movement in private classes, several times. Even using his finger on one of the women in the group, to show the normal round movement versus the back and forth. Which he did seem "nauseated" to show us. He often used pantomime as part of his demonstrations.
Probably got that from Genaro's antics.
No, there are not "creative flyers" that pass "brilliance" around from person to person. You are negating the seriousness and truth that u/AthinaJ8 is writing about and I just can't stand here and listen without getting serious.
It has been written in the books by Carlos and highlighted by Don Juan that there are beings manipulating us to feed off our energy. That is an energetic fact. The mindlessness shown by our human interactions on this reddit site and around us in our daily interactions is the proof. The hopeless cycles of history we repeat over and over from the micro-aggressions to the macro have no use or benefit to us if we mindlessly repeat the cycles. We are being manipulated to our own distraction so we cannot achieve anything.
The competiveness, the hostility, the jealousy that we indulge in; the self-centered me, me, me; the self-pity... It is a trap for our awareness and keeps us bogged down and unable to anything else but be food for this entity.
That has nothing to do with "creativity", it is the antithesis. It is destructive. And it should be the focus of all of us who have moved our Assemblage Point and understand how little energy we are given at birth and how precious that energy is.
To be blunt: we are born with a limited resource of energy. There is a manipulative being, the flyers, eating that energy. It manipulates our behaviour to keep us trapped and unaware of this state. We are like animals bred for food. Most people will never understand this. Most of us who do will not escape the flyers. This is what sobriety means: being aware of these facts and doing everything possible to escape.
That’s a response to the comment of u/AdvancedPaper9373 that provably was misplaced here.
u/Altruistic-Help-2010 You have said several important things that are to the point in relation to how flyers influence our behavior in a way that would be better than I would say it, and I thank you for your contribution.💕
Thank you so much for reminding us of what we are up against. It's frightening; devastating; yet inspiring at the same time. I'm so happy for you that you've weakened the flyers mind hold on you - I wish you all the luck and strength to eventually push them out forever. Thank you for writing this -it gave me a good jolt and strengthened my resolve. 💐
Thank you so much for your words, I wish you the same and I’m glad it gave you strength 🌷
It takes great discipline not to allow myself to get dragged into useless battles trying to change someone else's behavior or thinking in daily life, and instead notice my own reactions to what is going on around me. But the payoff is greater understanding and honesty about how we all are in the same situation.
It gives me more compassion for others than irritation at them.
It is really difficult to break these chains of being "reactive" and learn to be proactive instead. I have to constantly remind myself to choose what battles I engage in carefully knowing how little energy and time I have.
And I must remember again: all of us are in the same situation.
It's encouraging that there are people like you and we read some comments like this here..
Saving this
Interesting experience, it’s only sad that some people over here tend to overlook the importance of being impeccable.
I wanted to ask you about your Magical Passes quote, as I don’t recall any of it being written, especially not like you copy pasted? The other quotes from the active side of infinity are fine.
Could you please provide the exact chapter or page?
One more thing, it baffles me that it was a humanlike-hand that moved the “pendulum”. I never imagined them to be similar to us in anyway. Their movements are erratic and their appearance is not of this world.
Page 18 of the magical passes book
Thanks! What do you think about the human-like hand form?
That I was very lucky to see it and have this experience occurred to me, and of course it has many parts that are gonna steer doubt including the hand that was supposed to be something else to tick the boxes.
Found this from the classes notes from when Carlos and the cohorts were available that answers that :
"Discipline does not mean an order or regimen, but 'impeccability,' which consists of giving to each of your endeavors all of your concentration and unbending intent, for no personal gain. Sorcerers say to do everything as though it is your last act on earth. Acting impeccably makes us unpalatable to flyers. Flyers are neither good nor bad, they're just a part of the predatory universe. They do assume a human shape for us because we are aware of them at a subliminal level."
What kind of intent exactly? Also, what does it mean “for no personal gain”. That concept wasn’t mentioned by DJ, nor CC in the books…
Unbending intent. This feature Carlos had from the beginning of his apprenticeship.. it's what don Juan was looking for. However dumb we may think Carlos seemed to have been in his apprenticeship ( a view which I do not share), he had that one quality. It's all over the books, as is the concept of doing things without expecting rewards.
Ah, that concept is well known in zen as well.
But you said that it wasn't mentioned in the books, now it's " well known in zen as well". So which way are you trying to coax this to go? Leaning on zen, ignoring what is in the books. Why?
Well, when this particular topic is concerned, unfortunately zen gives a much better description of the technique than DJ. On many occasions, DJ is rather stingy on detailed actionable advice. Or it could be that CC made it that way…
Well he said we're on the verge of impeccabilty when we can make do with what we have, something like that. And that should be enough. So how come stingy? A better description, how come? It's just a little bit ironic. Such is mental masturbation.
I see that you are not well acquainted with the CC’s work. Perhaps too much time has passed since the last time you read the series.
It's you who has been pestering people with the books claiming to know them so well. Repeatedly saying " I don't remember seeing that in the books".. so people have to work to point it out to you..then you do it again and again. I could have gathered so many quotes about things you claim which aren't in the books, but there's no point. You're only trying to disrupt. For what? A little attention? There hasn't been a single comment which you've made which is helpful to anyone. So please, practice what you preach. We have no shortage of tyrants, meaning no one will miss you whilst you're off to catch up on what you're obviously missing out on.
Who hurt you honey? I am ending this nonsense, as you are not willing to objectively discuss. Farewell!
Found this from the classes notes when Carlos and cohorts were available:
"Discipline does not mean an order or regimen, but 'impeccability,' which consists of giving to each of your endeavors all of your concentration and unbending intent, for no personal gain. Sorcerers say to do everything as though it is your last act on earth. Acting impeccably makes us unpalatable to flyers. Flyers are neither good nor bad, they're just a part of the predatory universe. They do assume a human shape for us because we are aware of them at a subliminal level."
AthinaJ8, I think I'm just as much influenced by the predator that Taisha found. The skinny one. I see it snake like with a head that looks like a mouse without ears. And it's very fast. Sometimes it just peeks into my awareness, other times it enters fully. When it takes the form of a knot, like some kind of mariners knot and begins to pulsate in an extremely nauseating way it takes my energy.
The flyer I recognize by a pulse of energy or more accurately, a flux of energy. When I actively focus on it the rhythm changes. It becomes more discordant, more unrecognizable, but still there. Like it tries to hide by changing the rhythm.
But the way it changes my awareness when the flux of energy reverses direction is sneaky, clever, and brilliant. If I manage to step back and watch it, I see that I forget what I was thinking the moment before. It affects my awareness. Distraction. I track the flyer through the flux, the brief moment when I feel the pulse, the change in my thoughts, a brief lull, a different intent.
Stepping back is key.
@AthinaJ8, in that ‘Mud Shadows’ chapter, p 226, we have this interesting tidbit
“…maliciously. “The flyers’ mind flees forever,” he said, “when a sorcerer succeeds in grabbing on to the vibrating force that holds us together as a conglomerate of energy fields. If a sorcerer maintains that pressure long enough, the flyers’ mind flees in defeat. And that’s exactly what you are going to do: hold on to the energy that binds you together.”
Let that sink in!
Yes I know that. Yet do you know what that actually means? Practically what that is and how you do it?
Same questions i have! That one really has me going….
Wow, thank you for sharing this with us.
You write about seeing the fliers jumping around - I'm curious if you feel them try to move your energy/AP, what that's like?
Sharing some experiences I think might be related:
Some time ago I noticed feeling "oscillations" in my body. I used to try and concentrate on them and when I did, they would switch locations usually left and right side of my body. In a steady rhythm like u/TechnoMagical_Intent 's pendulum image in the thread. The damn confusing thing was when I tried to focus on them, the rhythm seemed alive and would escape, changing it's pace and jumping to the other half. I had to setup a trap, feeling both sides at once (I don't know how to better describe) like I was squeezing the oscillation giving it no where to go, then I would shake, and its oscillating force would be greatly subsided, temporarily.
Reading about the sixth center of energy and the "back and forth motion" in the book was the first time I thought someone else had experienced something similar and I recontextualized my little war with the oscillations as maybe something more than "just nervousness or tension". That pattern recognition got me to take daily passes seriously. After a few months of steadily doing passes, I stopped feeling such a strong oscillation amplitude. The only thing that's made a lasting difference in them, actually. When showering, I've noticed I don't sway side to side as much. When I do, I realize my inner dialogue was chattering away.
I'm curious if you've noticed anything like this?
Or any other advice you can share.
It’s incredible what we’re capable of doing and becoming. These feats are outlined in the books and posts here in the subreddit. It’s a tragedy that we’re inhibited by the foreign installation.
Fortunately, we have the option to work hard through silence and discipline to move our AP to Orange Zone + and start to raise and rebuild our shiny outer coating up past the toes.
I’ve seen patches of my outer coating, it was beautiful. It’s a challenge and hard work to build up further and maintain.
Once you’ve seen it, you get a glipse of what we’re fighting for.
Thank you Athina for putting yourself out there and posting this for all of our benefit.
Man….i had some doubt, but wasn’t sure. There’s something when I’m practicing inner silence, there’s another mind with its own will. I was starting to think it was me. But you described it. Many times I stop forcing silence and indulge on feeding it, and I get carried away feeding it……..Flyers
Maybe seeing the hand is how your tonal awareness interpeted the flyers manipulation? You def got your fill of proof when it blanketed you.
I don’t think Carlos failed his task, the knowledge is still spreading, ppl are practicing, ppl here are journeying into second attention and others are trying.
From class notes:
Omega Institute Tensegrity Workshop - May 26-29, 1995
Part IV - Saturday night, May 27 - Taisha Abelar's Lecture
by Corey Donovan
"Discipline does not mean an order or regimen, but 'impeccability,' which consists of giving to each of your endeavors all of your concentration and unbending intent, for no personal gain. Sorcerers say to do everything as though it is your last act on earth. Acting impeccably makes us unpalatable to flyers. Flyers are neither good nor bad, they're just a part of the predatory universe. They do assume a human shape for us because we are aware of them at a subliminal level."
Great quote, I’m not seeing how it applies to what I said.
Cheers
"They do assume a human shape for us because we are aware of them at a subliminal level."
Now?
I saw the flyers consuming my awarenesses over a period of 2 nights several years ago. I was upset for several hours after the first middle of the night incident but the second incident happened early in the morning. The morning incident was just like Carlos described: it was licking my outer shell like some energetic pig slurping an ice cream. They made a "silent slurping noise" that I felt more than heard. It helps to have seen them as now it's easier to not take things as personally. Although now i see my behavior much more clearly and how pervasive they are into every aspect of our lives. It's nauseating.
I've almost convinced that flyers don't do anything and they're harmless till you've post this which flipped me completely again,
so I've been thinking about this post, so flyers by manipulating our thoughts, they couse us act stupid and absent mindly, so the world and our lives are constantly on fire and in conflicts, so we would be sooo busy that we'd never have chance to think about our reason to be alive what's the meaning of existing...
And in case of fealings, through thoughs they'd make us indulg extremely on emotions and fealings like extreme anger, extreme sadness, extreme happiness, extrem lust, extreme love, extreme hate, extreme everything, and that extreme waist our energy EXTREMELY so they could grab them?
My initial spontaneous response reading your post, was the possibility this might be a memory?Quasi memories of the other self?Taisha Abelar used the words intersubectivity and amalgamation to describe how we work through all of this. I don’t wish to go into my experiences because its your thread other than to mention I attended a few tensegrity workshops in the 1990’s. One of those at culver city high school in 1995.Carlos talked a lot about this topic. It was held at a lunchroom in the school. An appropriate place to hear about food. You were asking how to do it. Considering the nature of this path those experiences could have happened then, now the amalgamation of the tonal and nagual creating a new oersowctive. The problem today has to do with other kinds of issues not present then. Did they forsee all the silos that have spread out?Did they intend a solution?carlos said at the end that he appreciated us “arming the passes”. This has been brought up recently. I have the memory, the intersubjectivity and the amalgamation which took place at UCLA which what some of us who were a part of did. Is it possible to tap into this Now?Perhaps thats the way to do it. Just a few thoughts I had about your experience.
This guy in the video, reminds me a lot of that parasitic relationship.
Interesting video!
Never thought this video would be posted here.
I suggest you check out the original “channel” (not the oldest video), of the creator. They’re posting some messages for us, and did so last month.
I really cherish the posters in this subreddit, especially the practitioners… be safe.
What’s the channel?
heliofantchannel
I’m confused.. the channel is just a bunch of random videos
Haha xD. I was just trolling
thanks for finding out and writing it here in the sub!
i don't know what to say about it, because everything i say would just be a reflection of what i feel, think, and believe, and therefore comes from the flyers. i'm not into poems, but there is a german one from rilke which i always liked very much - the english translation (wikipedia) no longer rhymes though:
>The Panther
.
>.
>His gaze against the sweeping of the bars
>has grown so weary, it can hold no more.
>To him, there seem to be a thousand bars
>and back behind those thousand bars no world.
.
>
>The soft the supple step and sturdy pace,
>that in the smallest of all circles turns,
>moves like a dance of strength around a core
>in which a mighty will is standing stunned.
.
>
>Only at times the pupil’s curtain slides
>up soundlessly — . An image enters then,
>goes through the tensioned stillness of the limbs —
>and in the heart ceases to be.
.
— English translation by Stanley Appelbaum
What is "inner meter"?
I'm curious to know, I couldn't tell either
I define inner meter as the process of recognizing what is happening to me internally in the present moment (thoughts, feelings, etc.) and consciously not giving them fuel to pull me deeper. I consciously stop fueling them, either by stopping them when it's just the beginning and it's easy or by simply withdrawing my energy and observing them until their effect passes. In this way, they do not take over my internal state and my external behavior.
Thanks!
Thanks!
The thing is: there’s no “I’ve almost convinced [myself] that the flyers don’t do anything.” No “I saw the flyers consuming…” because the I is already the flyer.
Your name, your parents, your friends, your social identity, your nationality, your culture, the things you like, the idea you have of yourself, the idea others have of you. The social mind. The ego. The “I.” The internal dialogue. Personal history. Self-importance.
Every one of those things is the Flyer. The symbiosis is complete. It’s hard to say where the flyer’s mind begins and where you end.
That’s why it’s so hard to get rid of this mind: because it’s you. And we tend to like ourselves. That’s why, when you’re really depressed—suffering from anxiety, social panic, and so on—you make yourself available to Power. Because then you have an incentive to get rid of that mind, since it’s destroying you. Otherwise it’s very hard to find the motivation to kill yourself—psychologically speaking. That’s why don Juan said we have to be pushed onto the path of Freedom; that’s why he said Freedom is never what we expect.
I believe that expelling the flyer’s mind is equivalent to losing the human form. I also believe it’s a harsh and terrifying process, but that it can be done. Once you reach and sustaneid that point, everything is possible.
“A warrior has no honor, no dignity, no family, no name, no country, but only life to be lived, and under these circumstances his only tie to his fellow men is his controlled folly. Thus—”
If out of the blue a panic attack is overwhelming you what could be the right thing to do? Lay down and smile? Fight back?
If the “panic attack” are being induced by your thoughts—by some kind of paranoid thinking—then the first thing is to stop your internal dialogue. If you can’t stop it yet, then you should at least disidentify from it: laugh at it, mock it a little, something like that.
As for the physical body (often the attacks aren’t even connected to anxious thoughts; they’re just a bodily response to a vague, undefined fear), in that case the best method is breathing.
Mental silence plus breathing usually works. And also: just wait for it to pass. Sooner or later it always goes away, even if you have to stay in the fetal position for a few hours.
We need to learn how to calm ourselves down, one way or another.
“A warrior must be calm and collected and must never lose his grip.”
So if one actually rids oneself of the inner dialogue would the flyers have to leave?
The discipline required to do that makes our glow of awareness unpalatable for them, like they have no syntax for that or something. You can read about that in THE ACTIVE SIDE OF INFINITY- Chapter Mudshadows
[removed]