Hello I'm new here. I'm one of those people that stayed away from Carlos Castaneda because of the bad press around him. For some reason, I got lead to reading in this sub. Can't really remember how I ended up here. But was reading about the Nagual's blow. Read some of the intro posts. And really resonated with how most spiritual systems tend to talk down to magical powers and such to be something corrupting and to be avoided. But right now with how the world is going - wars, genocide, crimes unpunished. I truly feel that liberation, moksa, enlightenment can never be separated from the ability to express compassion through magic, power, energies. I can isolate and stand witness as the world burns, but I am being guided that it is not the way for me at least.
I am curious how Carlos and this group view Ayahuasca. I had a shamanic calling last year, went through many struggles and was eventually connected to an Ayahuascero that I would say saved my life from the downward spiral I was going to.
Then I got guided to Indian spirituality, even got into some really legitimate lineages to study. But eventually found it lacking as prayers have been starting to get revealed to me. And they were getting real world effects. I was looking for guidance on how to be more in control and understand the process of that. Disappointingly, even if that was a lineage that was open to more Left hand path practices and Tantra. I was repeatingly talked down to. Advised to ignore them and just continue with my indoctrination, with my questions not being answer satisfactorily and evaded. So now I am here looking for magical practices. Responding to the call of Shakti, Kali, the Feminine to explore magic and hopefully tilt the balance of the world towards more justice and truth.
I started with the recapitulation practice and I could see it's effects already. The shadows I have ignored for the sake of chasing after enlightenment, has been chasing me lately, and I am yet to figure out an effective way to deal with them. And this might be the way.
Curious to know how this group view the things I've been through, and if anyone has been through a similar journey.
Thanks for all the resources here. I will slowly go through them and hopefully this is just what I need right now.
92 Comments
Oi mate, first of all, forget about what the press said about CC’s work. Judge from your own experience and then see whether it is real or not.
Secondly, good luck with defending your position that other traditions with actual applicable magic exist. I suggest that you don’t mention those at all, because the general consensus in here is quite non-approving and you are going to get bashed big time.
One more thing, power plants are better to be avoided and you can certainly achieve everything with or without them. However, it is said that they come with a steep price, which is why they are considered the last resort. Also, you should read the books to get a general understanding about our human (light being) situation.
I agree with your points. Personally, I think there’s things we can learn from different philosophical and magical systems, but I also think other systems have a tendency to exploit the practitioners and to seek profit.
I also agree that you can achieve any state of mind by natural means and that drugs aren’t required.
Calling it drugs is quite detrimental imo, the plant medicines teachers are part of meso-american traditions. I wouldn't be so quick to state that any state could be gotten from natural means, and I would also claim that these are natural. These are from vines, cactuses, animals - nature. I've done my fair share of trance inducing practices and I am still quite convinced that Plant Teachers could accelerate the process much faster, but it's not for everyone, not everyone can handle a "bad trip" with grace. And can be detrimental especially if they don't have the right guidance. And I am grateful to be led to my Shaman.
I wasn't really interested of jumping from one system to another, I only really jumped when I saw that the one I was studying have no more to offer based on what I was seeking.
Hope you don't take it in a bad way my reply friend. appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
As someone who has been on this path laid out by the new seers fo more than 30 years, with lots of twisting and winding, I can say that Ayahuasca is a powerful medicine. I got stagnant in my Tensegrity practice about 2009 and my ex partner (who I was only with about a year) told me about Ayahuasca. I was reluctant to do power plants again as I had spent years doing recapitulation, dreaming and magical passes and didn't want to revert back to something I had already passed by and thought I was done with. But eventually, after a year of research, I did end up doing it and worked with the Shipibo and Kofan tribes in the US and Peru for a period of 7 years. I only did about 30 ceremonies but it was a tremendous boost.
I was not alone as many Tensegrity practitioners were at some of the ceremonies and we even did magical passes at some points during the ceremony (with the Kofan we were allowed to step outside the circle)
I saw many things during the Ayahuasca ceremonies and experienced some great healings. I was able to shift my assemblage point and see things that would take hours to explain but in simple terms, I was able to see things like the energy body, the luminous fibers, the flyers as well as the luminous egg and its intricate details. At one point, I was able to see the effects of childbirth on a fellow participant in the luminous shell.
It was a great time that really jumpstarted my practice and allowed me to reconnect with magic and terror.
But in the end, I stopped because those shifts of the assemblage point are not under my direct connection to Intent i.e. I needed the power plant to do these things.
I have been back to practicing using the tools I learned from Cleargreen many years ago and also integrate the shifts of the AP from the Ayahuasca. That to me is my path and I have to "do the work" if i want to continue. Power plants can become a crutch.
I don't think this sub is good for much other than getting some tools to help you on the path. Many people here, even some of the more expienced ones, are a bit dogmatic and not really after freedom; they are more about exploring the Second Attention alone. I don't align my intent at all anymore with Cleargreen or this sub, but there's no denying there are some powerful tools here. In the end, though, it's really just about saving energy, not some technique.
I will say that it is true that's better to take 1,000 steps on one path rather than 1 step on a 1000 paths and that is mostly why people here get reluctant to talk about other traditions too much.
For me, the Ayahuasca was a helpful side quest, so to speak, but only to get me back on track with the pursuit of freedom.
Good luck to you either way
Thanks for sharing that friend.
No problem
Well, I always like to point out that even this system of Don Juan’s lineage wasn’t perfect and it was refurbished throughout history. Some brujos were weak and went astray, others were naive and foolish and so on. Some knowledge might have remained untouched throughout all these years. But it might also be true that some other cultures preserved that same knowledge even though they had split thousands of years ago. Heck, maybe even the death defier shared his secrets with other cultures from South America. Also, when we take the effect of the hundreth monkey into consideration, then it becomes rather clear that other cultures do indeed have practical and functional magic. It’s just that these secrets are almost never passed on to strangers, therefore, Castanedas encounter was a truly precious moment.
*When reading about somewhat similar stories, I did notice one thing. Quite often the authors state that any attempt of trying to take material advantage in exchange for magical knowledge is strictly prohibited and could potentially result in wicked consequences. I even met one witch doctor that scorned me with her look when I asked her if there is a way for me to get even. She claimed that she already received her prize by helping me - meaning that by helping others we help ourselves in ways we aren’t even aware of.
Go learn from those other systems, you need Reddit approval?
Ppl always think they know better and are willing to pollute the practice Castaneda gave us with bits and pieces of other systems, because they can’t/won’t do the work.
Better to make it all equally impotent and we can all do pretending together……no thanks 🛑
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Yeah, that’s fair. There is definitely a risk to the integrity of Castaneda’s system if we allow it to get polluted.
I am willing to put in the work. But I will do and discern for myself. Normally I give myself a couple of months before losing my patience and become frustrated with a system. I think most systems say to most people that you are not ready yet, without proper evaluation, come study and practice it for many years. But I've found personally that that they over promise and really under deliver. Most yave realizations that are truly just internal, so I'm really curious of this real magic in this system.
Thanks for the reply mate.
Yeah power plants were not in my agenda either. I was quite conservative and had a negative view on psychedelics. But I was called, I was indeed hesitant, but the signs and omens was basically shouting at my face. I agree, it can come at a steep price. But from personal experience, I say for those being called by Plant Teachers to indeed hesitate and ask for guidance if it is really for you. And I would say I wouldn't have it any other way, I admit I was hard-headed and couldn't imagine learning those lessons from a gentler approach.
Thanks for your pre-caution, but yeah being bashed doesn't really remove the reality of it.
Dude, it’s so wild how close-minded it is here (mainly that one guy lol). You’d think people doing magick would open up the mind, but that one is closed, closed tight.
What do you mean?
They’ll reply to newcomers who mention other systems with incredibly rude assumptions. Telling them they’re wasting their time, ruining things, pretending, without any kind of back-and-forth.
I get the whole “I’m rude so only the serious ones stick around” act but it’s just disheartening.
Hmm, well I got banned from this sub once for a whole year.. They were right. It may seem harsh..cold, or " whatever". But being nice is not what this is about. There is enormous encouragement given here. There’s a reason we don't want that " back and forth" here, check out the post from a few days back- " seeing the flyers". That back and forth rocking is the foreign installation doing its job. Don Juan himself said that all these belief systems, religions.. are there to pacify us. It's been explained here almost daily why we need to get ourselves out of that crap and not get back in it. One comes here like full of their " other systems", they get hosed down. Be greatful, I'dsay. Instead of 😢 😭
Well said 👏 We don’t have the luxury to show “fairness” towards other schools of thoughts. This practice has a proven track record, and as others are saying, “fairness” discussions can be significantly detrimental.
Friend can you point me towards that proven track record, what does it say, what did people achieve, etc. Thanks
Sure! Our assemblage point position determines our reality and what we perceive. We have a map that indicates what zone your assemblage point is at and the sorts of phenomena you could expect to perceive at that zone. It’s called the (“J-curve”)[[<https://reddit.com/r/castaneda/wiki/illustrations/j-curve>]](https://reddit.com/r/castaneda/wiki/illustrations/j-curve]).
We have dozens of people who replicate the subjective experiences along this curve.
I am already given to the power that rules my fate and I cling to nothing so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts so I will see. I fear nothing so I will remember myself. Detached and at ease I will dart past the eagle to be free.
lol
You can go back in time and see stuff like that.
It's actually inevitable if you fully stop your internal dialogue.
Last night Cholita having disappeared into Cartel controlled areas of Mexico was enough of a shock to my internal dialogue, that I managed to stop it even more than usual.
I was looking down on the floor at a sight like this. Hoping Cholita would show up there.
But don't forget that you can do this using sorcery if you learn to stop your internal dialogue.
We have access to 600 alternate versions of ourselves (Jadey found a lecture where one of the witches said 6000), living in entirely different worlds.
But all located here on earth, most likely.
In the unassembled emanations present at any specific assemblage point position. Each position has "layers and layers" of possible bundles of emanations, even without moving the asseemblage point.
You'll first start to get views of those alternate realities as "impossible memories" when you begin to fall off the edge of seeing during darkroom practice, brought about by near perfect silence.
Although your initial introduction to cyclic being worlds might come through a second awareness making it possible for you to physically travel there the way Carlos and Carol Tiggs did.
Except we don't have a second person, so the most likely way to visit in our physical body is through making friends with an inorganic being, who likely won't be able to resist giving you a visit to a cyclic being world.
They just won't tell you that's what happened. I'm not sure they actually can. Could be their "teaching" is just a trick to take credit for your own silent knowledge flow.
Is there a cyclic world where everyone is a sorcerer/witch?
So far, among those active in this subreddit, I suspect we've only seen 5 cyclic being worlds.
Also, there's a memory problem going from one world to the other and likely most of the time the event can't be remembered because it has no attachment to any starting place. There's no normal memories to use, to 'look it up'.
Like a huge database that contains the video of your visit, but you have no key to use to index and fetch it.
No keywords to use in a YouTube search for the video.
So we just don't know. But maybe you're asking if the other worlds are better than this one?
Apparently so. Back in the history of our sorcery, some seer leaders are said to have taken entire populations of small cities off to live in another world.
I'm still more worried about what happens to your physical matter in this version of reality.
I don’t know what I’m asking.
But some time ago I had an idea.
You mentioned an ancient seer teleportation station/system they used to travel in the world in the past.
What if there could be a “multiverse travel system” like a subway system for seers? Instead of being able to travel on earth, you could travel in the cyclic worlds like a trip to another country. But reinforced by energetic mass.
Also, I got this idea from the “Curiosa Witch” concept as well.
I believe we read about don Juan's lineage doing things like that. Where they all sat together for some common task.
Otherwise, we don't have such techniques as far as we know, unless they're hidden in the tensegrity.
I want to buy a VR headset for sorcery purposes.
This might be related to the intent adopting the “internet medium”.
It seems you can setup a “mocap suit” with cheap “VR motion trackers”.
Mocap suits don't work well enough to capture Tensegrity.
I know. I bought one! After trying it just a few times I concluded it was a scam,. and when I tried to give it away I learned that I was right.
they're a scam.
Nowhere near good enough for accurate animations.
And video mocap is a scam too. At least, for now.
What works, is covering a person in symbols and shooting from several angles, so that a computer program can generate movements from those complex symbols.
What does NOT work, are little sensors that try to talk to each other in space.
I finally sold that $5000 suit for $700 on ebay.
To someone who also didn't know any better yet.
Maybe he'll sell it for $200 after a year.
I thought they used sensors in big name studios too. Didn’t know consumer mocap wasn’t the same
That’s weird, wasn’t the Xbox Kinect very advanced already in the 2010s? When I was researching I even found some software company that had open source software to make VERY GOOD motion capture software for things like the Kinect if I remember correctly. Then they were bought by some big name software/hardware company and all of their stuff went down, scrubbed.
I thought they used sensors in big name studios too. Didn’t know consumer mocap wasn’t the same
That’s weird, wasn’t the Xbox Kinect very advanced already in the 2010s?
I doubt it. The most advanced AI today can't do decent video mocap. Ask ChatGPT.
And I've tried the main ones. Get the DVDs and try it yourself.
Or one of Jadey's videos.
You won't even get 3 seconds that's usable.
But they'll eventually be able to do it!
This tutorial from 8 years ago shows the mocap result. The Kinect could even get individual fingers + whole body (8:18 in the video).
Also captures directly into blender.
But from what I understood the main software in this video was bought and went private.
So I’d have to research alternatives.
Just ask the AI!
There's three of them, so if you doubt one, ask the other.
That video is showing basic mocap, not the final result when you try to use it.
I understood what you mean now.
That’s the easy part I posted, with many methods to do it. What’s complicated is after.
If you try to use such movements, really do check carefully if your T pose is appropriate.
Depending on the import software, that can be a source of all sorts of surprises.
Fortunately, that problem is likely to vanish in a year or two, when software starts using real AIs to import stuff.
T pose, like in Fortnite? But related to my VR ideas, maybe not having extremely accurate mocap isn’t a problem.
Being able to rig animations would mainly be to produce content, which I’m not knowledgeable enough to do.
But like with a VR headset you can open two browser windows: one with Jadey tensegrity lessons and another browser window with the “basic mocap” rig.
This would be “biofeedback” for learning.
No complex software just seeing yourself in 3D person view while you follow Jadey lessons.
My problem is I read the descriptions in “magical passes” book, or “silent knowledge” publication, and my brain doesn’t understand a single word I read. Body movement descriptions don’t make any sense to me.
The problem with videos is I have to keep grabbing the phone, watching, and putting it back down again to try to imitate/learn what I just saw. It’s a very slow process to learn from videos without a huge screen for example.
Starting the second half of this year, they’re going to be releasing sort of the “next-gen” in VR headsets.
We have quite a few written descriptions of tensegrity forms for which there's no video, and people do indeed find it hard to do from the written part.
There's a T-Pose
Ok hear me out on this other idea.
Like it’s an alternative if someone developing the ability to time travel to “dance home” takes too long. Intent is kind of weird? I used to conceptualize it as random but now I’m not sure if it’s more like a thing that’s alive? I’m not sure, I’m currently with a dirtied link to intent.
But hear out this idea. Maybe, with the accumulation of FXB, and mocap, and videos and everything related to tensegrity saved/archived something cool could be produced.
What if with all this tensegrity material, it would be able to “cross-reference” everything, the tensegrity 3D mocaps with the “written material” (such as magical passes book). Basically train a BERT algorithm to associate tensegrity movements to written descriptions.
Eventually this algorithm would even be able to “recreate” lost tensegrity moves, that there are only text descriptions of. Things that make no sense when people read, maybe the algorithm would be able to uncover those movements that are “gone”. Especially those that may have been written by the same person.
Maybe in the future future, such models would also allow to develop an understanding of the deep (???) muscles related to tensegrity. Even now I’m not sure what they’re supposed to be… skeletal muscles?
You're screwed...
Here's your chance to learn real magic, but it's obvious to everyone that you won't.
You'll go on pretending.
This is such an unimpeccable thing to say, Dan. You don't know what this person will do in the future. It's better just to let them go and not invest in them at all.
I disagree. It's precisely what he needed me to say to him.
I don't say things based on my own needs...
And it's completely wrong that I was dismissing him. I was trying to "stop him".
But the mods all seem to agree with you. I got grief over it.
There seems to be a "can't we all just get along" mood rising in the subreddit.
Carlos was never like that...
But he got grief over it too. From women.
Not surprisingly, the people they "rescued" from Carlos never did anything but go on to cause trouble.
No, I get it. Self-importance can't be fought with niceties but at the same time, sometimes it's just better to ignore them and let others do the talking. I think the only real issue is saying what they'll continue to do in the future. It sets an intent. I know it can be tiresome having so many come to a public forum like this who are obviously still just flyer mind and want to argue. I know Carlos was in a similar position in that he didn't have time with so many people around him. I've found that I have wanted to help others and also get them on the same path to have more mass, but I just let them go more and more of the time. I'm more selfish than you so it's a bit easier, but still frustrating. It's like the man said, the hardest thing for a warrior to do is to let others be.
I've got Cholita to teach me that...
A gift from Carlos.
Also, look at the title of the post again...
Seriously???!
I should just let him be?
He's in deep doo-doo.
Obviously being manipulated by bad people.
Yet you keep evading my question on why you guys define this as real magic vs other systems. Because as far as I've read even the founder and it's greatest students had less than impressive results compared to other systems.
From what I see right now, this system is trying so hard on indoctrination without addressing some key issues. It's like buying a vacuum cleaner that the store won't put out the box to test. It's like a home tv shopping product with just flowery words and no demonstration of capabilities.
Here you go, watch a cartoon. It explains what's "pretend" and what's not.
Pretend is everything that only moves your assemblage point into the "relief valve" territory of the green zone.
Just about anything can do that. No reason to hand over your money to guru types, to do wat simply prayer, jogging, or sitting in a rocking chair with your eyes closed can do.
As for magic elsewhere, point to it!
There's the internet now.
But you can't point to anything real. It's all just "ideas" in your mind, which have no basis other than lots of people who have the same idea in their head. With no actual magic involved in any of it.
Nah i pass, i mentioned the other systems in my op and other comments. If you can't answer questions simply I assume it's because you're using spiritual complexity to hide evasion or lies.
Wow, you're persistent!
Hopefully you get tired of pretending, and come back when you can manage to do some real work.
Often that takes getting older. For some people...
We had a couple of 22 year olds when this subreddit first came along, who learned in 2 weeks to 2 months.
And then stuck around!
But honestly what y9ou mentioned is what all fake magic people do. Mention a bunch of stuff, without directly pointing to a place where people are succeeding.
I once had a guy behave like you and asked him to point to something and he named 10 subreddits!
He didn't point to a single thing. He just mentioned so many that he thought I'd be too lazy to expose his lie.
But instead I asked him to pick just one post in any of the 10 subreddits, so I could focus on just that one.
He couldn't, and admitted it.
So you can't point to a single post somewhere that an honest person would say suggested you could learn that magic?
There's HUNDREDS of those in here.
Ok I'll give you one, Trailanga Swami, his feats were even recorded by british colonialist that don't believe in him.
See how easy to answer a question directly. How short and precise. Unlike these complex evasions of yours.
Talking about how many years of practice etc. That's what you need if you're pretending about something. Lies and delusions need huge amount of time to really indoctrinate to become a cohesive story.
I guess reading comprehension goes down when you do too much Ayahuasca.
He said two weeks to two months, it might take you years to give up pretending though.
One question for you, since you mentioned British colonialists, and I see that he is mentioned escaping from police, are there any police records of this? You know, like the Brits would have?
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/aki0db/how_to_see_energy_in_3_weeks/
Insult. I wont indulge any of your behaviour.
If you won't answer the question it's time to take a break. It's no insult, because you were told how long it would take, and you've even been provided a link on how long it should take.
There are no actual records of any of the fantastical tales of that guru. It's all nonsense, of course.
You missed the point entirely. I suppose you can't look at something and see if it's an honest place you can learn, because you're only focused on the attention seeking aspects of it.
But there's little point in explaining it to you, since the mods gave you a time out...
Still, it's worth relating to other new people.
Pointing to a story about a person who supposedly had magical powers, is NOT pointing to a place you can learn magic.
There's a "saint" in every fake religion!
Even murderous religions which shout "Aloha Snackbar" have their magical stories.
If we're to go by your criteria, might as well follow Jesus since he raised the dead.
But that's NOT a path to learning real magic.
It's a bit like, if you needed a job badly because you were homeless, but you kept pointing to people who got rich quick, instead of pointing to places where people were working hard and making economic progress, that would be like what you're doing here.
You just want to think about all the attention you can get from real magic, instead of actually looking closely to see if it's even possible to learn there.
Not only have you never learned any real magic, but you never even figured out what it's like, to actually be learning some.
Are you just going to jump from one story to the other, claiming you're part of that?
When the story itself is typically ludicrous?
Your fixated on "convincing others" instead of learning yourself. And making the mistake of assuming anyone here needs convincing.
I do believe I've located some other real magic out there in the real world, but it's not anything others would realize is the real thing.
It's among the Austronesian tribes in the mountains of Taiwan.
All witches. No sorcerers.
And all dying out. In 20 years, that magic will be gone.
Possibly it's next to nearly impossible to pass on real magic, in modern times.
Because like you, no one is actually looking to learn any.
They're only looking to be known, as someone who did.
Even when they didn't.
There’s a guy here who is extremely unwelcoming to anything except his personal experience with this specific material. Be open, take what resonates but don’t let this discourage you from the fact that other systems can have real, tangible results (I’ve done them)
That “one guy” is as close as we get to Castaneda. He’s put random strangers/nobody’s like myself on a working path to the second attention and is constantly having to counter the pretenders who want to ruin it all. Sound like anyone you know?
Not really. Curiosity about the entire world of magic doesn’t mean someone wants to “ruin” your preferred system. That’s insanely egotistical.
Yep….all sorts of cray cray in the river of shit
Can’t argue with that. And I can’t blame anyone for wanting to protect something so priceless
This reminds me a lot of Aleister Crowley he claimed to teach Apotheosis and of reclaiming your Power back. But ended up being dogmatic tyrant with everyone else under his superiority. I do feel in the end of the day, everyone should doscern for themself and see for themself. Just because some dude say they are superior doesn't really mean they are.
Thanks for replying friend.
Everyone needs a hook, maybe? Yours must mostly be ayahuasca.
It’s better to do the practices in here and not think about them too much, just do them.
If you are obsessing over your past experiences, then follow the recapitulation practices adherently until you’re sick of your obsessions, and yourself.
If topics get you excited to practice the techniques in here by just doing them, especially darkroom gazing and tensegrity, then that’s good!
If you aren’t convinced yet that this is the “real deal”, you’re probably not going to make it, and will go back to focusing on the other things you mentioned. You’ll have to stay too curious and self-critical to pull yourself up by the “thread” that ayahuasca hooked you to that lead you to this place.
But if you *have* to keep going, then you can do it!🙂
I find this really weird friend. Didn't Carlos Castaneda had Peyote with Don Juan? I find this general distaste to Plant Medicines here weird like denying a part of this tradition while always claiming that this tradition is from an old old intention.
I am not hooked to Ayahuasca like an addict, I only come when called. Often I hesitate a lot. It's not always a lovely process.
For now, I think this real deal here is mostly internalized magic that can't really afect the world and other people. And seems to be not what I'm looking for.
Thanks for the reply anyways.
What's the point in trying to change the world if we cannot even change ourselves? I mean, if it took power plants to affect you.. where would that leave the people you are trying " to impose your will on", as you already mentioned is your desire in another comment? To me, it sounds like your trying to start a cult.
And it's funny you should use the arguement that Carlos also took peyote also. All the while you have been avoiding his work due to bad publicity. It doesn't add up.
I read some things about CC you can suspect anything and everything but doesn't mean they are true.
For me the question now, is what's the point on having such a peaceful state of mind and being impotent on the suffering of your loved ones? If I had it my way I would want to impose my will on the world leaders right now making so many people suffer.
Anyways I feel you are very judgemental and making assumptions of me without much information. I wish you well. But I don't see it fruitful to engage in more disingenuous discussion with you.
You should really read this Reddit more carefully, because there is an important difference between magical powers, such as those referred to in the tantric or Tibetan tradition as siddhis, and what is mainly being discussed here in the CC Reddit. Siddhis are generally understood as powers that are supposed to be visible and effective in this reality. In this Reddit, on the other hand, the main focus is on powers that only take place in the second attention. In other words, what is mostly being discussed here are experiences and abilities that you perceive through your energy body or your consciousness. One example would be the ability to teleport, where your physical body does not actually move, but you experience it only through your consciousness.
If, on the other hand, you mean the kind of powers or magic that would also be visible to other people, then that is referred to there as a “river of shit,” and people do not want to engage with it at all. Even if the point is not to impress others, you will unfortunately still be judged in that forum if you are looking for a form of power that could help you gain advantages or enrich yourself in the material world, meaning in the world of the first attention or the tonal. Even though Don Juan in Castaneda’s books also used his powers in this way among other things, people here do not really want to talk about that.
Let me give you an example. If you look at the possibility of clairvoyance, which is referred to here as silent knowledge, the idea is that you may be able to see, hear, or otherwise receive specific information that interests you. A frequently mentioned example is Joseph McMoneagle, who later also taught at the Monroe Institute. He is said to have described the inside of a secret Soviet facility as part of remote viewing work and even foreseen a new class of submarine while it was still under construction. That is exactly the kind of example I mean when I speak of information that could also have a concrete connection to this material reality.
Here in this Reddit, however, it is repeatedly said that although you may, for example, be able to see into the future, you cannot determine exactly what you want to see. So you cannot choose it deliberately. Because of that, it has hardly any real use for material reality or, in other words, no clear material advantage. That is why the real question is what kind of magic you are actually looking for.
Thanks a lot for this bro! This brings so much clarity. Guess this is not what I'm looking for. I also noticed there's lot of emphasis on limitations of energy, weird contradiction of getting your power back but losing any sense of self importance, and Carlos' acceptance of Old Age. It is demonstrated and recorded that some people in other traditions have results with evidence of prolonging their life, physically teleporting, and imposing their will on others when they deem it is fit. Yes might be a path for corruption as many would warn. But for me I see them as the freedom to express infinity.
The reason for the apparent hostility towards other paths in here is simple. There are some folks in here who have personally witnessed Carlos losing a ton of his energy dealing with people who insisted on comparative practice, and the end result is that no one actually learned anything real.
You also brought up topics, concepts and practices from multiple different traditions. Each of those different paths have their own intent, each supported by millions of people actively contributing to that respective intent. We follow a much older intent, a continuous line reaching back to the ancient seers of Mexico 8,000++ years ago. That intent is extremely powerful, yet the signal is faint and can easily get drowned out if one insists on mixing concepts from other paths. We also don't have the luxury of having a nagual to help course correct if we are led astray.
Many of us here came from practicing other faiths and spiritual paths yet those who have seen real fruit from this practice all have similar things to say. If you want to experience real magic and free your perception, you must decide you want to do this and then focus on the path here exclusively with earnestness. Also, consider that the practices we do here are specifically meant to decondition/deprogram us from the chains of normal perception of a consensus reality. So it doesn't make sense to add things which counteract that deconditioning by....conditioning us to more concepts and ideas of this reality!
You really don't need to believe anything, do your own A/B test. Read up on the practices then forget everything outside this path for like a month. Start diligently practicing everyday: gazing, tensegrity and recapitulation. In fact you might not even need a month, there are many here who have witnessed unexplainable, undeniable magic sooner than that. In fact we have something of a built-in litmus test for what constitutes "undeniable" magic. That's magic you witness with your eyes wide open and then you say "holy shit, I can't believe this is all real!!!". Practice, and then you will see. If you fail, well, you know the reason why.
Thanks for the well-thought response. I think I was being naive and simplistic in my reply. What I was trying to convey is that there obviously will be overlaps between different paths, and for me personally some of the things I’ve learned in other systems have helped me on this path of sorcery.
But you’re absolutely right that we shouldn’t be wasting our energy with comparative practice, because that not only diminishes the energy that we could otherwise devote to this path, it also reduces the progress we can make if we devote ourselves entirely to this form.
I didn’t consider the idea that we’re ultimately trying to de-condition us from our typical perception. You make a great point that considering other systems would be antithetical to that end.
If you cannot see your life "tied" to a "path", then there is no point in going from path to path... and surely the "I want" you expressed here will lead you to worse paths... I am simply mentioning this from personal experience before I started dealing with the work of Carlos and the witches... I had dabbled in voodoo, Arabic occultism, European folk magic and many others, but unfortunately they don't have many functional things as they have a "limit" to how far they will go as most if not all of their practices are motivated by pure selfishness,and fortunately magic is not learned by combining system with system and other things like that..
I would suggest you start with this
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/s/0d0F67zGVC
and follow it step by step. Devote yourself to it without distractions or relating it to other paths and systems... when you have the first results, then you will understand much more simply from the experience without words through inner silence.
Start building your inner silence that will bring you to the point of real change, as you will have magic in front your open eyes that will be the most powerful proof of it.
Did you kill chickens when you did the voodoo?
If you are interested for chickens, you can contact with your local butcher shop hahahaahhaha 😭😂😑
I was thinking McDs for chicken nuggies! Add a little voodoo dipping sauce lol
I skimmed through that one already. I don't understand how this interacting with IOB leads to results? It is not consistent but I can already interact with some supernatural beings. And like I said in my post they guide me sometimes and I get results.
On combining and jumping systems, depends on the systems. Like chaos magic does jump from system to system and I had some results with that.
Do whatever you think because it seems you are not in the mood for understanding, or at least not for the present…
the drugs are only in the first two books. You can skip those. it can be a doorway to learning about yourself but then you have to rigor through with daily intent.
Start with "intent" and "awareness"
Ayahuasca is plainly not necessary at all, I am glad you are past your downward spiral, but you can put those toys aside now. It really seems that you are obsessed with being attached to it, however, but it is absolutely not necessary at all and is only going to hamper you.
As long as you hold to your beliefs about Shakti, Kali, blah blah blah, you will be limited to the results there. Your combining will only hold you back, you should come back once you've had enough. If you are not willing to go without mixing your other practices as well, you are not willing to put in the work.
The books also make plenty of mention of compassion, which seem to hold very well to your views and interactions here:
Re power plants:
"Why did you make me take those power plants so many times?" I asked.
He laughed and mumbled very softly, "'Cause you're dumb."
I heard him the first time, but I wanted to make sure and pretended I had not understood.
"I beg your pardon?" I asked.
"You know what I said," he replied and stood up.
He tapped me on the head as he walked by me.
"You're rather slow," he said. "And there was no other way to jolt you."
"So none of that was absolutely necessary?" I asked.
"It was, in your case. There are other types of people, however, that do not seem to need them."
Re compassion:
"The position of self-reflection," don Juan went on, "forces the assemblage point to assemble a world of sham compassion, but of very real cruelty and self-centeredness. In that world the only real feelings are those convenient for one who feels them.
What a compassionate reply full of unfair judgements and dogmatism. I am willing to test these techniques but not to indoctrinate myself. These deities are not beliefs for me. They are what I encounter when I barely have any connection with them. Just because an old tradition, old dude, old book said something doesn't mean you have to hold tight and believe it blindly. Look at what happened to Abrahamic religions.
Thanks for making me feel unfairly judged and unwelcome here. For now I'll leave, maybe I come back dunno.
Yes, yes, yes. You are obsessed with a particular position of the assemblage point, and you think your realizations are important, but none of what you have done is particularly relevant. It's simple enough to move your assemblage point, but, again, you will always be limited. You can be a sorcerer, but it does require at least setting aside the notion that your mysticism obsession is important in any way. Playing that you are doing the techniques, while holding fast to your fruitless ideas won't ever help you.
"But you yourself told me that moving the assemblage point is so difficult that it is a true accomplishment," I protested.
"It is," he assured me. "This is another of the sorcerers' contradictions: it's very difficult and yet it's the simplest thing in the world. I've told you already that a high fever could move the assemblage point. Hunger or fear or love or hate could do it; mysticism too, and also unbending intent, which is the preferred method of sorcerers."
"Don't concern yourself with that." He laughed. "You know that such realizations are a dime a dozen; they don't amount to anything in the life of warriors, because they are canceled out as the assemblage point shifts.
Yeah you can say this and that. But what Im doing is bearing results. So they are fruitful. That's why I called your judgements unfair because you know nothing about my results yet you already judge them to be fruitless.
I am not getting any new insight from this just nastiness. You can go preserve your limited energy. I will no longer engage with your dogmatism.
Bye
But, here's the thing, that you think "mantras" are something that comes from listening to the hum, and you think that is relevant. When I listen to the sounds of the world, including that hum, stuff way beyond mantras comes up. I have found myself in an entirely different world, where I was in a long hallway, while awake, because after realizing I still had my mask on my face, I took it off, and found myself looking at my door instead of a long hallway. I know for a fact that I was awake, because when I took off my mask, I was on my elbows staring at the door, just like I was on my elbows looking down a hallway.
You aren't ready for any insights, because you don't have the energy for it.
I am not saying I am anything special, you can do this right this minute, if you had sufficient energy for it too.
"I'm going to utter perhaps the greatest piece of knowledge anyone can voice," he said. "Let me see what you can do with it.
"Do you know that at this very moment you are surrounded by eternity? And do you know that you can use that eternity, if you so desire?"
After a long pause, during which he urged me with a subtle movement of his eyes to make a statement, I said that I did not understand what he was talking about.
"There! Eternity is there!" he said, pointing to the horizon.
Then he pointed to the zenith. "Or there, or perhaps we can say that eternity is like this.” He extended both arms to point to the east and west.
We looked at each other. His eyes held a question.
"What do you say to that?" he asked, coaxing me to ponder upon his words.
I did not know what to say.
"Do you know that you can extend yourself forever in any of the directions I have pointed to?" he went on. "Do you know that one moment can be eternity? This is not a riddle; it's a fact, but only if you mount that moment and use it to take the totality of yourself forever in any direction,"
He stared at me.
"You didn't have this knowledge before," he said, smiling. "Now you do. I have revealed it to you, but it doesn't make a bit of difference, because you don't have enough personal power to utilize my revelation. Yet if you did have enough power, my words alone would serve as the means for you to round up the totality of yourself and to get the crucial part of it out of the boundaries in which it is contained."
What are your results? The only result that anyone here cares about is being able to see real magic directly in your open eyed visual field from a sober state. You can take drugs as much as you want and experience the most beautiful things in the world but if you have not developed the ability to get there yourself then it will fade away and be a meaningless memory. We care about getting there every night for hours.
The reliance on drugs comes from not actually believing in real magic. You dont think you can get to earth shattering shifts just through silence. And it takes hundreds of hours to just get a little taste so you probably wont have much luck. Which is why people here are attempting to jolt you into a more serious state through some harsh criticism that your reliance on drugs to see magic is based in laziness and it will go nowhere.
The reliance on drugs is an unfair judgement. And I wouldn't use that word because it is derogatory. These Plant Teachers were used even by the founders of these.
I can get to altered states even without them. I don't want to admit my weaknesses here because that will only feed on those who are already judging me unfairly.
For results. Here are some - guided to teachers of rare lineages, have real life results of curses and blessings Ive done or been guided to do, can talk to and see my guides sober open eyes.
I dont mind harsh criticisms. I have to do that to myself sometime to make sure Im not deluding myself. What I do mind are unfair assumptions and judgements, that are coming from people who I suppose are projecting their insecurities.
On the open eye visuals, i can get some of those from time to time, sober or with Plant Teachers. But so far I still find more results and guidance closed eyes.
Thanks for being more fair than most people here.
Nobody here cares about being nice or making you feel cozy. Who are you justifying yourself to here? Go do ayahuasca then.
This place is about understanding the core reason for why you are trapped here in the mundane rational world instead of eternally floating around in dmt hyperspace. You are here right now because you are obsessed with talking to yourself in your head with a languge that has rationality encoded within it. You are moment by moment conjuring up the delusion of a rational world with the language you mumble in your head all day as you obsess over weird imaginary attention seeking scenarios in your mind. As soon as you stop doing that, the world disappears and you are in eternity seeing unbelievable psychedelic magic directly in front of you. Eyes open and sober. You are alone and lost in a predatory eternity with such little control over your mental facilities that you cant control yourself for 15 seconds to see the magic that is directly in front of you at all times. If you realize how serious that is and want to take the tiny shot you have at freedom then you start reading everything here and start practicing until you can see real clouds of living purple magic in your room with you with your eyes open. This is the only method of ensuring that you aren't pretending to do something real out of desperation of the hopeless situation we are in, which is what you were doing with all the vague results you listed to me.
And how you can even prove to others that you are seeing that purple blob or that it is helping you with real life results.
Im not here to be cozy. I'll real constructive criticim but not unfair projections like this. You sure Im always in dmt space? Where did you got that from?
You guys are claiming real magic but have Im yet to see any real results here. Even CC didnt have control over his way of leaving his human body. Ive seen real diseases cured in my shamanic circle. Siddhas have records of their supernatural powers working against skeptical british colonialist.
So far these questions have been evaded here. Your projections here says more about your current frustrations with how possibly what your practicing is not working.
I think if what I said to you did not resonate then this is not the place for you. If you do not have an intuitive connection with the idea that this world is only a reflection of your internal dialogue then you have no hope of practicing enough.
You could try reading the first 3 books. They are right up your alley. They are all about shamanism and power plants and mysticism and Native American knowledge etc. Some of the absolute best books in the world on the topic. There's a reason they are so popular. Hopefully it doesn't ruin the immersion to say that everything that happened was a setup to captivate carlos' attention to teach him real sorcery -- Which is shutting off the internal dialogue until you see real magic.
Thanks for the recommendation
The path is straightforward. You have to reach your energy body, your double, your higher self.
For that to happen, you need silence and energy.
The more silence you have, the more energy you gather. And the more energy you accumulate, the easier it becomes to maintain silence. You need to get into that virtuous cycle.
To do that, you need to be impeccable, to act like a warrior — as controversial and out of fashion as this may sound — because the flyer in you is not going to let go that easily. So stop jerking off, watching porn, eating like a pig. stop being lazy and self indulgent. Take care of your body. Relentlessly stalk your mind, your thoughts, your emotions. Don’t let your ego and society - actually the interaction between the two - drain you.
At some point, your higher self is going to start communicating with you, so don’t worry — you are not going crazy. It is just the voice of your double, and that voice will guide you. The flyer will start talking too, in order to confuse you. It is a mess, but deep down you know what is what. Trust your instinct.
To do that, whatever path you take can work. The difference is that Castaneda presents some fresh knowledge in a Western language. It is more straightforward. It hasn’t had time yet to get lost through time and become mystified the way most other religions did. Don Juan thought Jesus was a great nagual.
But here is something important: every path is impregnated with a specific intent, and that matters. We live in a predatory universe. There are many beings — and ancient sorcerers as well — craving your energy. So be careful out there. Again, act like a warrior, not like some foolish teenager.
People tend to become obsessed with Castaneda. But he was just a messenger. He did his job: to write the books and pass on the knowledge with impeccability. His books carry words of power because he got those words from Power itself. But that’s it. He didn’t burn from the fire within like Don Juan and his group. Right now, he is stuck in the same inorganic world described in The Art of Dreaming, which is a book impregnated with the intent of that world.
So final and total freedom is the ultimate goal, and it should guide all of your actions. It should be your unbending intent.
But I mean, spending time with your guitar is nice. Riding a wave on your surfboard is cool. In the same way, riding second attention with your consciousness is fun too.
If you are looking for “fun magic,” for “cool magic,” you can do that too. It is like playing an instrument or practicing an extreme sport: you need hard work, consistency, and a little bit of courage. Some people are more talented; others have to work even harder.
You can learn how to place your AP in the position of no self-pity, calm your mind, and enjoy the bliss of silent energy. You can sit like that for hours.
One way or another, at the end of the day, it is all just a form of folly, because we are going to die. We are going to die. It doesn’t really matter what you do in the meantime. Your only real concern should be trying to ascend to another level of existence. If not that, then whatever — do what you like, what you want, or what you can.
Just remember: in the same way that, while riding your surfboard through magnificent waters, you can get bitten by a shark, it can happen in second attention too. Some forces sense your energy the same way sharks sense blood, and they are going to try to bite you. So be careful with the intent you are aligning your being with.
P.S. Don’t get me wrong: people around this Reddit do have a point. A lot of people read those books over and over for years, smoke their little marijuana, and turn into inventory warriors — pretentious, selfish people. Worse still are the ones who try to cash in on all this. There are very few real warriors around, and the true ones usually can’t be bothered interacting with other people.
But hey, why try to cash in on some lame-ass spirituality when your higher self could just whisper the lottery numbers in your ear?
@danl999
Why do you reduce real magic to just seeing it? Why is everyone on this Reddit so against magic that, for example, is called Siddhis in Hinduism or Tantra? Or against magic that creates changes in this reality or brings material success?