i was hoping someone could help me understand what happens to use after we die if we don’t become a warrior and expand our consciousness like the sorcerers. from what I understand the eagle eats us and reabsorbs our consciousness. If you get eaten and don’t make it past the eagle what happens to you? does your consciousness just fade away and you cease to exist with any memories? also what does carlos say about seeing our loved ones after we die? Including pets? I am about to lose my dog who is my best friend and I wonder if I will ever see him again.
32 Comments
Our Wiki page on The Eagle, with introductory info for beginners.
Thank you
You can learn all this yourself, by playing with the "puffs" until you can form zombie assistants from them.
And you can't learn this, by reading or asking people.
Just FYI.
Only by doing, can you learn sorcery.
The tensegrity "forms the energy body", but once you see what that looks like you come to realize you can make as many as 5 of those "beings" using the purple puffs.
And they stick around for days if you have good darkroom skills.
Trouble is, with 5 of them they're a bit stupid.
So I developed the theory (with noticing what's written in the books in this regard) that it's mostly our double that can survive death, and our awareness that thinks it's "the real you", is mostly not.
But it can go along.
Your tonal awareness can go along with your Nagual (double) awareness past death, as long as you "unhooked" it from all the entanglements it picked up while living, through recapitulation.
Then, if you recapitulated, you can survive the shock of the eangle trying to rip all of your memories from your awareness by "flattening you out", and as Cholita puts it, just sneak around the eagle and run for it.
Cholita was taught that the eagle flattens you, but what happens is that there's now a cardboard cutout of you. So you get to escape.
And even if that doesn't happen, the Eagle doesn't actually eat you. It just consumes your memories of the dark sea of emanations. That's what it's after!
Then it lets you go free. Dazed and confused.
The problem is, your awareness, absent a container, will just spread out as zombie blobs, thinking it's just exploring it's new super powers to perceive everywhere, until it's too thin to be sentient.
You'll "subdivide" endlessly.
So Carlos told us that when we die "come find him", and he'll show us "which way to go".
Which is presumably into the gigantic dome.
We need a container!!!
Or we dissipate.
Carlos himself found a new way to "contain" his awareness past death, but he didn't explain it to us.
The old seers used the inorganic being's realm, which is "sealed". But then they were trapped in an endless dream world.
And yes, of course you can see your pet or your mom.
Reach silent knowledge.
The problem is, the amount of work is so great that if you actually did that you'd stop caring about your current goal.
I'm trying to think of a good analogy...
Let's say you lost your "lucky penny" and were terribly sad, but while looking for it you eventually found this...
I really appreciate you taking the time to write me this. And the fact that you’re humoring me. It sounds like from what I read on the wiki page that we all have the choice to not dissipate? Even if we did have our memories erase and eventually disappear would we be able to see our loved ones or does that only happen if you get past the eagle?
Your best chance to see your loved ones is while you are still alive. by using Silent Knowledge.
For example, Carlos has come to visit me during darkroom, at least 3 times.
Not in a vision. Not meditating while I flare my nostrils, with my fingers all curled up to look like a hyogi.
I was doing what you read about in here. Darkroom practice.
A tunnel materialized, I looked into it, and Carlos was motionining me to come follow him down that tunnel.
Which I did for a while. In my physical body, walking right through my solid bed and out the wall into the front yard of my home.
Each time Carlos visited me (after he was long dead), he was as real looking as anyone else.
Then of course, you can also manufacture silent knowledge entities.
So you could make a dog, and then figure out how to attract it's previous awareness into it. So that it was in every important way, the same being.
I manufacture those "SKEs" nightly. It's just really difficult to get everything right.
You have to stop your internal dialogue nearly perfectly, for at least 20 minutes.
[removed]
So, if someone menages to reach silent knowledge consistenly but didn’t recapitulate his life, could he escape from the eagle anyway ?
Burning from within or stretching the egg to infinity are those alternatives or they still need recapitulation as a base foundation ?
We don't know...
Doesn't that suck?
Stretching the egg to infinity might not actually extend your lifespan.
Even though, 400 years later you're still around.
It might just be a way to alter how quickly time flows on your home world, while you're off "somewhere else".
There's a story in the books about old seers who went somewhere, came back. and found everything they knew was long gone.
It seems, this post brought up one of those hidden topics in the books.
Hidden for good reason, because pursuing it leads only to religious behavior and pretending you can do things you can't, because they're off in some imaginary future you'll never achieve.
However, just now while grabbing patches of the emanations, using Taisha's not-doings from Esalen (recovered from our past by Techno looking around in written stuff), I noticed that the air is actually noticeably thick.
Of course, it isn't.
And yet, it is.
And we have multiple techniques where one outcome is that the air gets thick, such as the technique to dent your energy body at the second assemblage point.
Thus noticing the air is actually thick, isn't a dead end.
It's in that realm of "there is no real, or unreal. Only perception."
A quote someone posted yesterday or the day before.
Sorcerers don't care about real or unreal, because it's super fun to perceive magic!
Obsessions over "is that real???" are just a desire to cash in with other people. To take your discoveries, and convert it to money or attention..
As a concrete example for beginners, if you're doing darkroom, most likely with your Ally helping, if a window materializes on your wall where you know there is none, and a breeze seems to come through it for real, noticeably blowing some weird curtains that are part of the magical window, which makes it obvious the window is open. do you really care if being able to go over to the window, climb through, and end up in the Sonoran Desert, is "real"?
We only care about that real part if we're doing lame meditation with our eyes closed, dozing off out of boredom.
When you're walking around in your physical body practicing darkroom and get to jump out a magical window, why would you start to classify that as "impossible" when you just did it?!
This all might sound unrelated to what I'm about to suggest, but it's not. Those hidden topics in the books are hidden behind that kind of classifying thought. Real or not real.
I'm not saying they're "not real", but only that this kind of thinking is what prevents us from noticing them.
Thus, Caros pretty much told us, that you can "rescue" dead people.
I'll list reasons people who have studied the books will recall.
First, there's Carlos telling Amy just that. Saying he was the only one who could save her dead father.
Amy was obsessed with Catholicism (from the point of view of Carlos), and she was addicted to prescription drugs, which eventually killed her, so Carlos got into discussions with her, which involved his attempts to convince her to put in real work and learn.
He didn't succeed. You can't pick and chose who learns. It's up to them mostly.
So Carlos wasn't behaving oddly to tell Amy that, and we're lucky he goaded her into writing that "tell all" book or we wouldn't have this information.
You can literally locate and reassemble the awareness of dead people.
Too weird to believe?
Then there's point #2. The blue scout. Carlos found her stuck in some kind of web.
That's pretty much what happens after death, if you don't find a container. You disperse into the emanations.
Then there's don Juan saying he could always find Carlos anywhere. He said that when Carlos headed for Mexico City and stopped halfway, where don Juan just showed up. Surprising him.
I shouldn't forget the river of shit story, where if you manage to climb out and look around on dry land (in the second attention), sorcerers are waiting to "hose you off".
More controversial I suppose, is that when a lineage "leaves", they can take someone in capable of it, along with them. Carlos pleaded with don Juan, but he said that would result in incalculable losses for Carlos.
And one wonders how the entire lineage could all get ready at the same time? Does that really just mean, whether people make it or not, the leaders can go find anyone that got lost after dying?
Carlos did promise to show us which way to go, after death. To keep ourselves contained.
There's a lot more, but I just wanted to save this as a topic for later.
It made utterly no sense to me that anyone would think of such a thing, but later I learned that Corey himself was pondering it. It was perhaps an "inner circle" delusion.
And we know that the blue scout rode to the dangerous spot in death valley, and took a permanent nap in her car. All anthropologists who work in southern California will warn you to stay away from death valley unless you're well prepared. Broken down car can result in death in just 2 hours.
So what was going on with the crazy talk of suicide? Which clearly upset Carlos.
Corey knows, but he gave up and currently has a huge attitude problem. Insisting he got rid of "the monkey mind", which is a ludicrous reference to beatnik culture thinking that they could stop their internal dialogue just because they were so cool.
Naturally if you actually stop your internal dialogue you inevitably see amazing magic and think you're going crazy, if you haven't been taught why that happens. So that no one in the history of humanity, ever "got rid of their monkey mind".
Just as no person using meditation ever actually even got close to being silent in their mind.
Anyway, Corey could explain why he thought suicide could lead to anything positive, but so far hasn't made any effort to do anything but stop us from succeeding.
And for whatever reason, he holds his delusion against Carlos. As if it was Carlos that almost caused him to make a really stupid mistake. I believe there was even a group plan, similar to what the blue scout did by driving off into the desert.
My theory is that people interpreted the books to mean, you could go along with a nagual who had just left, as long as your awareness had been freed from your physical body.
There's a lot more evidence for this topic of sorcerers being able to recover dead people from the dark sea,, but I just wanted to save this as a topic for later.
I found it floating in some weird splotchy soup in the second attention, when I was noticing that Cholita's dark energy wasn't as fractured today, as it has been since she returned to Mexico.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding things, but our awareness needs our physical body for energy? The body ages but energy for awareness grows?
I suspect the answer is, we don't know stuff in that much detail.
Possibly on purpose. People tend to hoard "facts" and pacify themselves into feeling like they've learned sorcery. Because everything else is learned by accumulating "facts", other than stuff that involves using your body to do difficult things. Such as baseball or shuffle dancing.
We have "old timers" in here who keep asking questions, but never put in any serious effort to really learn to move their assemblage point.
My conclusion is that they derive their enjoyment of this topic. through other people. By "knowing more" than others.
Rather than by being able to actually make the magic work.
And the new seers might even have downgraded passing on "facts" to apprentices, because they refined and emphasized Silent Knowledge as the goal, which is like an infinite AI.
Anything you want to know, is right there in front of your eyes.
IF you can fully stop your internal dialogue so that you don't keep "evil clown effect"ing what you are viewing.
However, judging from results in this subreddit, young people seem to have faster success than older people.
One could attribute that to them being able to see "concretely" more easily than older people. Due to more free energy.
But that could just be tied to all of people's energy eventually getting tied up in the past. So that recap could fix that situation.
Then there's the "good news" for older people.
You need to move your assemblage point. How "concrete" stuff is when it moves, doesn't stop it from moving.
So in the end, you intend to learn sorcery.
And I have to think that older people have more ability to intend something outside the social order.
Young people still believe in "happily ever after".
Man…you really know how to nail your replies. You somehow hit on everything I’ve been thinking about and then summed it perfectly: silent knowledge = get there
Recap….aye! The more Darkroom I do, the more i realize I need to lighten my heaviness and recover energy through recap for Darkroom.
Everything in our sorcery derives from trying to sustain silent knowledge.
It's fascinating to realize that as you get further along.
People actually complained about tensegrity as being some new thing. When in fact, it's essentially very obvious to someone who can "see", and anyone who can do that ,might easily have decided to use it the way Carlos did. As a path.
Likewise for recap. You keep bumping up against latent "evil clown" traces in your mind when you try to stream actual knowledge.
Silent Knowledge that's useful only streams from OUTSIDE us.
When you can't stop your internal dialogue, you still might reach SK, but you'll stream your own shit.
You have to be "blank" in order to add nothing at all to the stream, so that only what comes from outside of you, determines the stream.
I was debating making a post about this, but since you’re hitting on it. The longer/better I get at turning off my internal dialogue (and I have to say it’s different every session) the more empty things get. The space I’m looking into is changing. Does that make sense to you? I really don’t know how to explain or describe it. Just to say, the space is evolving or I’m evolving as I get better at shutting off my internal dialogue.
Like maybe, the evil clown that adds all this stuff, scenes, writing, numbers, trees, events, etc. I move past that and there’s nothing to see/look at, but empty space that’s not blackness, it is much real/alive/dynamic? Fuck, I dunno how to explain it? It moves or reacts as I move. I’ve been noticing this over the last cple weeks.
The tensegrity movements, there’s a different feeling that wants to come out and be put in the passes? I know it, but don’t know how to do it.
Am I pretending? Getting confused here? It’s seriously changing.
No one can say in this situation, if you've got some pretending going on.
Also, with women even pretending can turn into the real thing. So pretending isn't always death to progress for everyone.
If they intend it well and aren't actually seeking attention from others, some level of pretending can be a stepping stone on the way.
And you could also say that interpreting what you see, enough that it finally forms into something concrete, is tainted with a bit of pretending.
At first.
I suppose a better way to understand it is, if you got lucid inside a dream and then turned to the phantom being you find hanging out near you and said, "It's a lovely day, isn't it?", there's a very good chance it would change into a lovely day.
But if you said it was a "dark and stormy night", you'd be most likely to get that.
And whatever you got, things would change as a result of that statement. Maybe the dream would stubbornly refuse to do what you say, and choose to do something else.
But that's still a response!
Darkroom is just waking dreaming, so it's subject to the complexity of how our awareness focuses on things, and what that can alter when the assemblage point can move.
And the latent "evil clown effect" is one reason (among dozens) that humans have decided to claim sorcery states are not real.
Too lazy to figure out the rules...
Eventually we might map it all out so that people would see, it's not random at all.
Just not what we grew up learning.
A good "Westerly Witch" cartoon would be one that explains all this, using the real world situation of a "Weird Carnival".
Where it seems to make no sense, but WW figures out what's really going on behind the scenes, and you get to see how reality works.
Hey man, thank you. I appreciate the time you take to help.
Is Cholita back yet, or you still enjoying unobstructed bathroom access?
Still gone.
You still cool with it or wanting her to come back?
She keeping touch so you know all is well?
Sure I want her to come back. Carlos gave me her to protect. That's irrevocable.
No, she doesn't keep in touch enough to know how she's doing.
Or what.
But she didn't do that when she was living on my property. I'd usually go days before I saw her walk by and sometimes weeks. And she always refused to speak even when I needed to tell her something important.
She's like a feral cat.
I almost managed to locate her using seeing last night, but she was with another woman and they were tiny. As if I couldn't get close enough to be sure it was her. I seemed to be gazing through actual houses to find her.
Don't any beginners get too excited. You'll be doing a dozen things like this every night, and they're off where they are forgotten in half a day. So you don't get to play Dr. Strange, except while you are doing it. A short time later, and it's all mostly gone.
“She’s like a feral cat” 🤣🤣 that’s a good analogy for the women at my house. I might steal this 🤣🤣
I was kinda thinking you’d be concerned cause youve honoured CC for all these decades protecting her. I hope she’s well and makes it home safe.
I’ve wondered about the double. It’s pretty unfathomable for me at this point. Most of CC’s interactions with Genaro were with Genaro’s double. It’s like having super powers! Who wouldn’t want that?
>My conclusion is that they derive their enjoyment of this topic. through other people. By "knowing more" than others.<
That's a terrible conclusion imo. Vicarious experience sometimes leads to a shift you can feel as well as possibilities to explore. I'm a very old man who hasn't posted much, mostly because it would be pretending.
But when it's not, it's such a minor thing thats hardly worth mentioning. For example during recap I've been able to put myself in a scene by feeling the location I'm recapping so it's not just a memory. It's a physical feeling. But I realized my eyes were closed so I couldn't see the scene. So now I'm learning to open my eyes to look around to see the world I skimmed way back when.
But it's such a minor thing.
But something else. There is a whole range of emotions that the predator, the self, uses to manipulate us. Such as a very slight depression accompanying the thought, "I don't want to do that", or the slight unnoticed elation of "Friday night". So hard to see because, after all, it's, "me". (But it's not).
But these are outside darkroom.
You should share your direct experiences from serious practice more! Even if just in comments or Discord if you are worried it’s too minor to be worth mentioning. 🙂
Talking about what we’re actually doing in our practice seems more helpful to everyone than intellectualizing or trying to get better understandings of words themselves. That seems like how all the religions and philosophies and spiritual and esoteric practices focus on: just trying to be able to use words the best. Or at the very least, using the words the “right way”, so then the followers of those things feel like they understand well enough as though they’ve done something that matters.
And we here really know that action is all that really matters! And our direct, serious practice is our action 💪🔥 even if our results at times feel like small potatoes 🥔… always better than just talk for trying to get intellectual understanding rather than talking to get more action to act on in our practices! That seems like the best (or maybe only?) real chances to see and experience actual magic ✨
I had the opportunity no see how our memories are absorbed by the eagle once by trying Bufo. It truly changed my perspective in life and our purpose.
We truly are in this world to make memories that feed the sea of awareness
It would be nice to have a positive perspective on this because I’m not gonna lie this is kinda depressing
We’re just food. The flyers feed on us and then the eagle feeds….Human BigMacs and awareness is the secret sauce.
Oh no! Sorry to hear about your dog. They’re truly our only friends on this planet.
Thank you. This is not the news I wanted to hear but oh well. I was hoping that when we die we can have a choice and I most definitely didn’t want to be reincarnated.
Who knows? Those that know are dead, and those who see it have a hard time explaining it and the rest of us an even harder time believing any of it. It’s all one big adventure from inception to death. Might as well ride it like we stole it and not really worry about it cause it’s coming for us all.
Really really sucks to be losing a dog. Very sorry.
I really appreciate it he’s my best friend
I do have to say though I believe in my heart we do have a choice.
Sure! Who can really say?
Fortunately or unfortunately, I’ve never died, or I am dead now and don’t know? Who can tell? lol
;)