What do you guys make of this Cleargreen workshop on live shamanic dreaming intensive? I am an avid reader of the Reddit Casteneda sub, and practitioner, and highly respect your views. Some of you (original students of Castaneda) must know who Renata Murez is. I am wondering if it is worth attending this workshop?
LIVE Shamanic Dreaming Intensive
A by-invitation-only, week-long, in person shamanic dreaming retreat
June, 2026
You’ve put in the time. You’ve done the work. You’ve completed and graduated Tensegrity Certification levels 1-5. You’ve been through the Parallel Lives year long program not once, but twice and have transformed your life.
Due to your hard work and persistence, you are now ready to take your Shamanic dreaming to the next level.
Announcing the LIVE Shamanic Dreaming Intensive. For 7 days you will transported out of your everyday to the French countryside. Along with the people you have been dreaming with all of these years, you will live together…practice together, dream together and strengthen your ability to dream individually and together.
You will begin by relinquishing all of your phones, laptops, and all electronic devices at the door. A prerequisite to Shamanic dreaming is to acquire silent dreaming energy, therefore you will spend several days in complete silence, eating a dreamers’ diet, practicing magical passes together…all with the intention of gathering the required energy for advanced Shamanic dreaming.
Don Juan’s way of dreaming is different from ours, as described by Castaneda in an interview with Sam Keen:
KEEN: Do you think don Juan lives in this state of awareness most of the time?
CASTANEDA: Yes. He lives in magical time and occasionally comes into ordinary time. I live in ordinary time and occasionally dip into magical time.
For 7 days you and your cohorts will eat, sleep, practice and dream together. You will participate in activities designed to deepen your experience.
This is a once in a lifetime event and is by invitation only. We will be sending out invitation emails soon, so watch for it. The price is all inclusive and includes accommodation, meals and events.
I’m so looking forward to spending this time with you.
Love,
Renata Murez
Sent by Cleargreen, Inc.
11901 Santa Monica Blvd., , #599 • Los Angeles, CA • 90025
33 Comments
I think it costs money, yes, and if you are happy giving them some of that money, please go ahead.
No one wants your money here, and you will get farther along IF you put in the work.
This is the same concept as a Vipassana meditation, 10 days in noble silence with no phones or devices whatsoever, eat vegetarian food, sleep and meditate for hours and hours every day. With no contact with the exterior world.
They are running out of ideas, now they copy Buddhist meditations! What Cleargreen has came to...
If you want to practice meditation for 10 days without outside interference go to a Vipassana meditation. It's free, with accommodation and food and you only pay in the end, if you want to.
I'm not advertising it, but it seems like a much better alternative because at the Cleargreen one you are just being ripped off. I bet they charge from 1k up to 2 or even 3k for the privilege of being among such illuminated beings.
What makes you think what they are teaching and experiencing is like Vipassana meditation? You have absolutely no idea what the content of the workshop is. You have made this conclusion based on the absence of electronic devices? Know what your talking about before making such complete judgments.
dn99不喜欢男人练习做梦的，并且Cleargreen社区自创假的张拉整体而闻名
That's because nowhere in any of the books does it say that sleeping dreams are a path to sorcery knowledge.
And both Carlos and the witches made fun of people who tried to discuss their sleeping dreams. They even cut people off if they tried to relate an experience from their dreams. So as not to harm others who were listening and might think it's ok to pretend that's progress.
It's typical behavior in all fake magic groups. To pretend that dreams are visions, or supernatural experiences.
Laziness is endless in most people.
But once you can reach Silent Knowledge and then use THAT to walk off into sleeping dreams, directly from awake, then it's ok.
That's mostly what Carlos was doing in "Art of Dreaming", except for when he was still at the first gate.
But even then, he had learned to at least partially stop his internal dialogue.
And his assemblage point could easily move very far, because don Juan was teaching him in secret using the Nagual's blow.
So it's impossible for any men to follow that path.
Cleargreen doesn't care, because all of them are merely pretending just like their followers. And they want people's money. It's easy for their followers to lie about results with sleeping dreams, so it's good for Cleargreen business.
Women however can use "womb dreaming". Not ordinary sleeping dreaming. But I guess Cleargreen can't sell the women anything regarding that technique.
Ultimately, the truth is that even the men have to use sleeping dreaming after they're already able to move their assemblage point to the other side of their body, unless they like their energy being sucked up while they're asleep. That starts to happen once you become "interesting" to the IOBs due to reaching heightened awareness.
But that's necessary for men, only when the inorganic beings become a problem and they need to go into sleeping dreams to tame the "scouts".
Not something anyone could do before being able to move their assemblage points on demand.
That's despicable!
Must be the kids took over. I've heard that Reni is quite old and in bad health.
Howard Lee is also in town, using his Daoist con game to convince people he can "activate" things with his fingers.
Why was Carlos friends with Howard?
My understanding is he wasn’t interested in what Carlos had, real magic?
I suppose that's next to impossible for people to understand these days, but after WW2 Asian martial arts systems tried to branch out here to Los Angeles, so as to steal as much money as possible.
It was something brand new in the USA, at least, in that much quantity.
Enterprising Asians could claim to be "Masters", when in fact they only studied a tiny bit in school gym class. In Asia, martial arts are mostly just a sport. For exercise.
Some get cult like, but mostly it's stuff like Howard studied, which is everywhere. Choi Lai Fut. The most common kungfu style in southern China.
But from the point of view of someone living here in the 60s and 70s, the arriving martial arts from Asia were like a giant candy store mall of magical martial arts schools, spread out all over the city!
And branching out from Los Angeles too, into Riverside and San Bernardino counties.
Myself, I studied at 15 different schools. Some quite famous and some for more than a decade.
Carlos and the witches were also fascinated with martial arts. Taisha and Florinda attended the same Karate school system as me, and I ended up in class with them at least 3 times.
The college students called her and Florinda, "The Pixy twins". Because of their extremely sort hair, which was nearly unheard of at the time.
And as to that famous tournament in Japan that Taisha attended, the men said "women can't fight, so they have to do forms".
Her teacher Nishiyama, was a total woman hater. Infamous for it, which is likely why there were typically only two women in his classes.
Taisha and Florinda studied in LA, and me in Riverside. But both schools visited each other. It was "Shotokan". Now defunct over competition between the phony leaders who were pretty much always only after money.
Which is a pity because that system surely has more pictures of Taisha and Florinda in class pictures. Someone has those in a box in an attic somewhere. Along with a bunch of trophies. Nishiyama or Nakayama's relatives would have those.
Carlos is said to have studied Aikido, Kungfu, and Tai Chi.
If he studied Aikido, it was surely through UCLA and that's another place I might have met him back in the early 1970s. It's possible he was one of the black belts who came around to class in Riverside from time to time. There were 3 or 4 "wandering black belts" who occasionally came to classes held in the university where martial arts teachers could get free matts and rooms to teach in on a regular basis.
Unfortunately, I'm face blind so I wouldn't have recognized him later, and the same for Taisha and Florinda.
Carlos also attended the Tai Chi Association picnics one county eastward, where according to the daughter of Marshall Ho'o, he always had a new young woman on his arm. Howard warned her to stay away from Carlos, because he was a "bad man".
Carlos also took some classes with Marshall and commented that he wasn't as good as Howard.
Carlos hung out with Bruce Lee at least once, along with Howard. He described a movie they made with a bar fight scene, where Carlos was the bartender.
So the interest of Carlos was in martial arts, and their system of "Katas" and formalized movements.
Which as we all know, is an interest of this specific lineage going all the way back to that Chinese martial arts pirate who became one of the Nagual's in our lineage.
But Asian martial arts are non-sense fake magic, as is very obvious these days with the rise of real fighting systems such as Brazilian jiujitsu. Like everything else, Asian martial arts are only pretending with the purpose of stealing money from the young and naïve.
Even a mediocre MMA fighter can kick the butt of the highest Kungfu masters in China, in 30 seconds. You'll find that on YouTube all over. It's a "topic" that generates viewers, so there's many of those and people even put up $100,000 prizes to trick senile old martial arts masters, into trying to beat a real fighter.
And that Tai Chi Carlos was said to have practiced also, was the worst of all fake martial arts. Doesn't work at all, in any situation. It's all pretending. Taught for old people exercise in Chinese countries.
Howard and Ho'o just showed up one day in Tijuana, and cooked up the idea of pretending to know martial arts at the "master" level.
No such thing actually exists.
It's like Buddhist "Masters". It's total nonsense. Buddhism in Asia is just a pushy religion which has corrupted governments there.
It's not a system of evolution of consciousness. That idea was cooked up to fool westerners.
But Carlos did try to get Howard to take over for him when he died, knowing things would go horribly wrong as they obviously have, with Reni in charge. He even warned us in Amy's book.
Instead of joining Carlos, Howard decided to pretend some Taoist longevity delusions were real magic, and steal from our community.
Insisting he, Howard, would live to 150 years old and "then maybe people would listen to him".
Carlos put that dedication in his books because he liked Howard, and wanted to surprise him with who he'd been giving lessons to for so long, and treating with his chinese medicine.
We can only speculate about the actual meaning of that.
Howard was shocked when he found out who Carlos was.
But as to Howard having some secret knowledge, it's just not true. Carlos even did imitations of him and called him "cotton mouth" for how poorly he pronounced English words. And said something anyone who has to deal with the Chinese will tell you. Chinese men are really screwed up...
Carlos never spoke about people from his lineage like that.
And most important of all, from the martial arts Carlos studied, he got the idea to use the individual sorcery moves he'd learned, including the death defier's "stable assemblage point positions" arrived at with physical movements, as a martial arts like system.
Those were everywhere at the time, and it seemed like as good of a way to "encapsulate" the sorcery movements, as any other.
He also probably learned how to herd a bunch of middle class American young-adults together to learn “esoteric woo woo” (which in his case was the REAL DEAL) from those environments.
Worse, he might have believed Martial Arts could actually produce movement of the assemblage point.
The witches seemed to believe that, including the senior witches in the lineage.
But then, they had a lineage with a Nagual and the Nagual's blow, so their knowledge of what could work for beginners, was next to non-existant.
It certainly SEEMS like martial arts ought to produce some magic.
But then...
It certainly SEEMS like doing tensegrity should have worked.
And yet, we have this most recent workshop, indicating it didn't work at all, and 28 years later there's no one at Cleargreen with even a tiny bit of understanding.
How did don Juan put this?
He said there were scores of people all over Mexico who followed the old ways having appropriated it from seers at some point, passing it down.
But not a single one had real magic, because they "had no understanding" of what the rituals were supposed to be doing.
Or you could simplify it and say, they never learned to stop their internal dialogue.
The very problem all of the Cleargreen's have.
And it's unlikely to change.
There's nothing special about those people.
And given 100 people who claim to want to learn sorcery, only one of them will actually try.
I think that means there's 0 of those in all of the Cleargreen's combined.
Can't be more than 15 "leaders" among them all.
That’s kind of crazy.
Not if you think about the crazy religions out there.
Cleargreen is just a religion now.
I would agree with tai chi not meant for fighting at all, but it seems that it can be used against wrestlers, maybe ... maybe after you practice for 30+ years?!
check this guy, it has some more videos on YouTube too
but anyway, I still like it even though I admit it is not for fighting.. why not :)
That's a common reason martial arts "masters" delude themselves into trying to get that prize by fighting an MMA guy.
It's the social pressure in class, that makes them think they really beat one of their students.
He'd be destroyed if that guy wasn't playing along.
There's videos on that too.
It's the peer pressure of martial arts studios, kind of the same thing that allows the leaders of fake magical systems to get away with it.
A sad human tendency...
Didn't you study any martial arts where people had to pretend the techniques work???
That's all of them!
I wish it weren't so, but that Tai Chi guy would go down in 5 seconds.
And you wouldn't need a professional wrestler.
Just a black guy from Compton could do the job.
Someone who's actually been in real fights.
Loll "Energy activations are back", why, did they left? 😂
I suppose he couldn't earn enough in Italy, so what's back is Howard, with both hands out.
And his green zone techniques. More religion, than anything else.
It's a terrible penalty! I was doing the recapitulation series last night, viewing silent knowledge instead of the red zone.
Movements in the air can produce AMAZING magic if you are silent.
So martial arts could totally be fixed, but it would take teachers who can "see", and who emphasize learning to do that, over the martial art itself.
And you'd have to dump the idea of actual fighting, since the MMA people will always easily kick your butt if you're only a "martial artist".
Instead, the emphasis should be on the 2 types of energy body which become visible if you fully stop your internal dialogue, stop expecting things because you want to impress others. and just look at what's going on.
Beyond the "energy body" made from puffs, there's the physical body as "seen".
It's that tentacle thing.
There's no chance for an AI to draw that, or I'd give it a try.
Using both views while doing repetitive movements like "katas", you could learn to switch to your double.
Making light body techniques work, and giving you the ability to be invincible.
I suppose I can use a Star Wars still to illustrate what's possible in martial arts, if they actually did what they claim to do.
Both of these are TOTALLY possible. I've done the treetop thing with Cholita, and being in your double automatically makes you invulnerable.
But an MMA fighter will still kick your tonal body's butt... Unless you can manage the Star Wars choke hold using "the force". Something that dancer Carlos went to see unannounced, did in fact do in one of the books. Zacatecas was it? The deer dancer.
From my understanding Zacatecas was Vicente Medrano, but Carlos didn't knew he was a sorcerer yet. He went to visit him and Vicente was perplexed to receive such an unexpected visit.
He was in his double, as Carlos perceived that maybe he was plastered out of his mind, as described in the books, when In the double one may appear a bit uncoordinated like a drunkard. And that's why DJ said later, after hearing the story that he danced! To show up in his double to Carlos and to maybe perceive that he was searching for power.
Vicente gave him such as amazing gift that Carlos didn't even knew it was access to 3 allies, and the gift was lost. Remember DJ laughing when Carlos asked if it was possible to do anything to "salvage the gift"!
I'd be glad to hear that, assuming it was true.
But in the story I'm thinking of, the guy he went to see didn't like him being there at all, and stood in the doorway not letting him come in. And then finally made him unable to speak, by "tossing a word at him".
In the case of the three allies, Vicente even gave him a gift of 3 plants to go water somewhere. So Vicente welcomed him for coming.
It's likely 2 different incidents.
My assumption was that Zacatecas was part of another lineage, which La Gorda referred to when she said, "But we don't like them."
Because it was too different, being centered partly around deer dancing.
Which the Yaqui in Vicam do indeed do!
Where don Juan actually met Carlos, instead of in Arizona as written in his books.
Which was a deception by Carlos to keep people away from Vicam.
Cleargreen gives me the creeps. I would not listen to them or work with that at all.
"Don Juan’s way of dreaming is different from ours, as described by Castaneda in an interview with Sam Keen:
KEEN: Do you think don Juan lives in this state of awareness most of the time?
CASTANEDA: Yes. He lives in magical time and occasionally comes into ordinary time. I live in ordinary time and occasionally dip into magical time. "
That's a very manipulative way to say " we're failures"
We'll all fail like that, but we'll still have real magic. While no one else does anything but pretend to have real magic, so they can steal.
It's like, we have jobs. Might not pay what what a Facebook CEO gets, but it's better to have a job than to be unemployed.
Besides, it being hard to dip fully into magical time is what drives us to clean our link to intent.
On our own, without help from a lineage!
Right. That was my point. I can "fail" like that for free! Maybe failure isn't the right word, though.
My point was also that they are cherry picking a quote from Carlos to justify why they haven't reached a state like Don Juan and his party did, and still charging money to participate inthis basically watered down version of sorcery.
Regardless, Cleargreen has no real energy these days because the only real standard they have is whether someone can pay for classes or not.
I've known several of the level 5 people for years and they just keep paying money without changing much of their actual behavior to really save energy. They get a boost from the group energy but it's not enough to really accomplish much.
Whatever, I guess. I'll just keep going regardless. Just kind of makes me a bit nauseous that this is what its come to
Carlos did warn us about Cleargreen. Through Amy.
I watched him pressure her to write that book after he died, not realizing why he was doing that.
Now I understand.
I'm surprised Nyei went bad, but apparently Reni ordered her to start making up fake Tensegrity forms early after Carlos died.
Possibly Reni was trying to combat Aerin, who started making them up even before Carlos died.
They did get into that legal war over a fake form and who could "teach" it.
Yeah, it's bizarre, really. But then again no matter how well intentioned you are, once money/the merchant mind is injected it never fails to ruin it somehow.
At least we had fair warning! Reading Amy's book really shook me. I can laugh a bit about it now, though
I haven't heard anything from it that is shocking or "exposes" Carlos.
Which of course no longer matters, since we know that everything works as he wrote.
But if you take the two "bad examples" I heard of and can remember:
I suspect sex was quite a bit involved in things, in don Juan's lineage. And we certainly don't have to wonder about Julian's doings.
Why Carlos told Amy that is obvious, if you were in private classes and saw him trying to steer her away from formal religion.
And Amy was addicted to prescription medicines. She badly needed to move her assemblage point. It was perhaps her only chance to survive after Carlos was gone.
But instead of getting serious and following instructions, she overdosed years later and her family blamed Carlos.
Yeah, my reaction to the book was mostly based on personal issues at the time. These things don't bother me now but did at the time. It was obvious Amy was physically present but didn't really grasp what was going on. Carlos tried his best.
She actually helped us out in here, forcing Carlos to answer some questions he didn't want to answer.
Possibly because they were lovers (in the past according to Cholita) and Carlos tried to convince her to get serious.
So he told her specific things he wouldn't normally tell a group, due to people possibly using it to pretend themselves into a dead end.
The way Cleargreen obviously has. It appears that there's pretty much no chance for any of them now.
I also have to worry about what stopped Carlos from answering some questions. People pretending advanced topics.
For example, what I saw last night was utterly amazing but it's not something I can post about.
But Carlos did tell Amy stuff he wouldn't say in public so that when those topics came up in private classes, once in a while when Carlos wouldn't answer a question you'd hear a tiny voice coming from the "protected area" of the room, where the witches went to practice. As did the blue scout and any visitors who didn't normally attend private classes. Carlos put "honored guests" over there.
But not the EuroBuddhists... They were poisonous, so they had to practice with the normal students.
Amy was over in the protected area. Kind of hidden in fact.
But she'd speak up once in a while.
Two important questions Amy got Carlos to answer.
That was asked by another bad guy in our community. Felix. Always greedy, always looking to pretend to have knowledge and cash in with it the way Cleargreen has done.
Carlos had just taught us our first Tensegrity movement, which is one of the most flexible and powerful.
Zuleica's pass.
But instead of asking what we can do to make it work Felix asked, "How many of these do we need?"
Wow... What a shit head.
It wasn't the appropriate time to be asking a question, but if I'd done it I would have asked "Does it work better, the more times you repeat it?"
Or, "Can we do that movement down low, or up high?"
But instead, from Felix we got "Man, this wasn't in the books. How much of this useless junk do we have to memorize?"
Carlos looked annoyed, but forced a fake smile.
And didn't answer.
He looked over to Taisha and Florinda to see if they wanted to answer, but they put their heads down and pretended not to notice the whole thing.
And then Ellis (Amy) squeaked in a very low voice, "One??"
Carlos didn't nod, but his look of annoyance at Felix went away. So we all went back to practicing that movement thinking we'd gotten the answer.
(continued when I can recall the second question Amy got the answer to)
The second question Amy got answered, is:
Someone was asking this:
But the question was asked about Carlos showing his finger moving from the center, to the right. It wasn't asked about the whole range.
I only have a poor memory of how he was goaded into answering, but I think Amy might even have started to repeat a number Carlos told her in private.
But Carlos himself agreed with a nod.
10,000.
So when your assemblage point shifts horizontally, there's 10,000 phantom versions of reality available at a given depth of the assemblage point.
Going to the right direction.
That seems to indicate that the full range of assemblage point positions at any given depth along the J curve, has 20,000 distinct phantom versions of that reality.
Too bad someone didn't ask the same about moving down, in depth.
But there are 600 viable "cyclic being" worlds in the full movement along the J curve. And Jadey found a mention that there's actually 6000.
Perhaps that counts ones the old seers didn't map out. As we all might recall, the death defier was teaching STABLE assemblage point positions, to the naguals of our lineage.
At any rate, because of how many assemblage point positions can produce alternate realities you can tune in, and even switch to, and live there, the new seers called the range of the red zone, a "quagmire".
I wanted to ask a similar question for some time.
You said that, silence is stored in passes as we do them. Would it be a good idea to focus on doing Zuleica's pass a lot of times everyday to accumulate more silence in it (and use it to progress faster), instead of doing a lot of forms? (With this question, i assumed that the silence stored in a pass doesn't effect other passes, but i may be wrong here)
We don't know the answer to that.
There's the possibility for the assemblage point to move sideways from repetitive motions, especially if you focus on your muscle memory.
Which is kind of like women focusing on their "second brain".
So if you can focus entirely on the repeated movement, with your internal dialogue stopped so that each word doesn't pull you back to your normal assemblage point position, then there's the possibility of strong waking dreaming caused by an assemblage point shift horizontally.
Along with a shift in depth.
Magic mushrooms do that, pushing your assemblage point down to the red zone but far off to the side.
But most of the benefit of any sorcery technique comes if you use it to perfect your silence.
Once you can stop your internal dialogue well anytime you like, you can gaze at anything and summon a flow of silent knowledge timelines.
Seeing.
Jadey believes in doing more repetitions under some circumstances.
But it's possible that what happens in a group is very different than what happens on an individual basis when practicing at home, and in groups more repetitions are better because of "energetic mass" effect.
Whereas on your own, it's better to be creative.
To "put your whole body into it".
In a way you'd be embarrassed to do in public, because it's too exaggerated and seemingly off balance.
I'll make a post showing that.
I know it's in spanish but it has automatic dubbing, she is an argentinian journalist.
Your comment has been automatically removed because your account does not meet our account-age requirement of 10 days.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.