"The island of the tonal has to be swept clean and maintained clean. That's the only alternative that a warrior has. A clean island offers no resistance. It is as if there were nothing there."
General Knowledgeu/thisgreatusername2018-05-16 22:01 UTC8 points
I never really understood what it means to clean the island of the tonal. I know recapitulation helps, but what of the other things like getting rid of petty tyrants. How can we tell what drains our energy?
I read that we can clean the numbing effects of everyday concerns as well as cleaning as a disguised task or effort.
(edited to add more info)
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u/thisgreatusername
1 points2018-07-14 18:52
" "The job of a teacher, insofar as the apprentice's perception is concerned, consists of reordering all the elements of the island on one half of the bubble. By now you must have realized that cleaning and reordering the island of the tonal means regrouping all its elements on the side of reason. My task has been to disarrange your ordinary view, not to destroy it but to force it to rally on the side of reason. You've done that better than anyone I know."
He drew an imaginary circle on the rock and divided it in two along a vertical diameter. He said that the art of a teacher was to force his disciple to group his view of the world on the right half of the buhble.
"Why the right half?" I asked.
"That's the side of the tonal" he said. "The teacher always addresses himself to that side, and by presenting his apprentice on the one hand with the warrior's way he forces him into reasonableness, and sobriety, and strength of character and body.
"And by presenting him on the other hand with unthinkable but real situations which the apprentice cannot cope with, he forces him to realize that his reason, although it is a most wonderful affair, can only cover a small area.
"Once the warrior is confronted with his incapacity to reason everything out, he will go out of his way to bolster and defend his defeated reason, and to that effect he will rally everything he's got around it. The teacher sees to that by hammering him mercilessly until all his view of the world is on one half of the bubble. The other half of the bubble, the one that has been cleared, can then be claimed by something sorcerers call will.
"We can better explain this by saying that the task of the teacher is to wipe clean one half of the bubble and to reorder every thing on the other half. The benefactor's task then is to open the bubble on the side that has been cleaned. Once the seal is broken, the warrior is never the same. He has then the command of his totality.
"Half of the bubble is the ultimate center of reason; the tonal. The other half is the ultimate center of will; the nagual. That is the order that should prevail. Any other arrangement is nonsensical and petty because it goes against our nature. It robs us of our magical heritage and reduces us to nothing."
That's a really powerful quote. I'll have to think about it.
I found something that may also shed light on the topic:
"Warriors take strategic inventories. They list everything they do then they decide which of the things can be changed in order to allow themselves a respite, in terms of expending their energy. This covers only behavioral patterns that were non-essential to survival and well-being."
FIRE, pg 15
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u/thisgreatusername
1 points2018-07-15 20:31
"Nothing of what we do, with the exception of stopping the internal dialogue, can by itself change anything in us, or in our idea of the world."
Don Juan made a diagram about reason and talking: " 'Reason' was interconnected directly with a point he called 'talking'."
What I am actively doing is taking my reasoning/talking and putting it into the island of the tonal; what is left after you learn to let go of the reasoning/talking is silence/nagual/dark sea of awareness.
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u/suicidsally
1 points2018-07-15 21:01
You're not getting rid of all talking, are you? Does that go hand in hand with typing?
I like your thinking, nonetheless.
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u/thisgreatusername
1 points2018-07-16 20:27
i meant talking to myself. :D
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u/suicidsally
1 points2018-07-16 18:07
You know, I was thinking all day yesterday about this. What if you worked on quiescing your whole tonal? That would make the aim more abstract and would cover more than your talking.
Also, some quotes:
"Your tonal has to be convinced with reasons, your nagual with actions, until one props the other.
The tonal must be protected at any cost. The crown has to be taken away from it, but it must remain as the protected overseer."
7 Comments
I never really understood what it means to clean the island of the tonal. I know recapitulation helps, but what of the other things like getting rid of petty tyrants. How can we tell what drains our energy?
I read that we can clean the numbing effects of everyday concerns as well as cleaning as a disguised task or effort.
(edited to add more info)
" "The job of a teacher, insofar as the apprentice's perception is concerned, consists of reordering all the elements of the island on one half of the bubble. By now you must have realized that cleaning and reordering the island of the tonal means regrouping all its elements on the side of reason. My task has been to disarrange your ordinary view, not to destroy it but to force it to rally on the side of reason. You've done that better than anyone I know."
He drew an imaginary circle on the rock and divided it in two along a vertical diameter. He said that the art of a teacher was to force his disciple to group his view of the world on the right half of the buhble.
"Why the right half?" I asked.
"That's the side of the tonal" he said. "The teacher always addresses himself to that side, and by presenting his apprentice on the one hand with the warrior's way he forces him into reasonableness, and sobriety, and strength of character and body.
"And by presenting him on the other hand with unthinkable but real situations which the apprentice cannot cope with, he forces him to realize that his reason, although it is a most wonderful affair, can only cover a small area.
"Once the warrior is confronted with his incapacity to reason everything out, he will go out of his way to bolster and defend his defeated reason, and to that effect he will rally everything he's got around it. The teacher sees to that by hammering him mercilessly until all his view of the world is on one half of the bubble. The other half of the bubble, the one that has been cleared, can then be claimed by something sorcerers call will.
"We can better explain this by saying that the task of the teacher is to wipe clean one half of the bubble and to reorder every thing on the other half. The benefactor's task then is to open the bubble on the side that has been cleaned. Once the seal is broken, the warrior is never the same. He has then the command of his totality.
"Half of the bubble is the ultimate center of reason; the tonal. The other half is the ultimate center of will; the nagual. That is the order that should prevail. Any other arrangement is nonsensical and petty because it goes against our nature. It robs us of our magical heritage and reduces us to nothing."
https://www.federaljack.com/ebooks/Castenada/sites/rarecloud.com/cc_html/cc_html_04/tp3b.html
That's a really powerful quote. I'll have to think about it.
I found something that may also shed light on the topic:
"Warriors take strategic inventories. They list everything they do then they decide which of the things can be changed in order to allow themselves a respite, in terms of expending their energy. This covers only behavioral patterns that were non-essential to survival and well-being."
FIRE, pg 15
"Nothing of what we do, with the exception of stopping the internal dialogue, can by itself change anything in us, or in our idea of the world."
Don Juan made a diagram about reason and talking: " 'Reason' was interconnected directly with a point he called 'talking'."
What I am actively doing is taking my reasoning/talking and putting it into the island of the tonal; what is left after you learn to let go of the reasoning/talking is silence/nagual/dark sea of awareness.
You're not getting rid of all talking, are you? Does that go hand in hand with typing?
I like your thinking, nonetheless.
i meant talking to myself. :D
You know, I was thinking all day yesterday about this. What if you worked on quiescing your whole tonal? That would make the aim more abstract and would cover more than your talking.
Also, some quotes:
"Your tonal has to be convinced with reasons, your nagual with actions, until one props the other.
The tonal must be protected at any cost. The crown has to be taken away from it, but it must remain as the protected overseer."
Tales of Power, 160