I posted something, but it ended up in a different subreddit (where they'll likely go nuts, not being knowledgeable about castaneda). I guess clicking on the link was the issue.
I hate computers...
[-]
u/TechnoMagical_Intent
1 points2019-08-12 18:30
Any little mention may wind up being the trigger that ultimately hooks someone. There were probably references to Castaneda in books I'd read over the years before actual discovery, they just didn't stick or weren't specific enough etc. Or I simply wasn't ready to absorb it. This knowledge isn't for the young raised in Western society. Native cultures taught these things to their children as they matured, as we rightly should.
[-]
u/danl999
3 points2019-08-12 18:32
They did indeed, I saw it with my own eyes.
Ruby, the dreaming sorceress, used to sit at an outdoor fire, and tell stories.
Carlos knew both her, and John, the devil's weed sorcerer.
There's still a devil's weed fan club of some kind there. You only have to examine the paintings in the casino to see it.
[-]
u/danl999
3 points2019-08-12 17:08
I guess the main concern is whether that's an inorganic being?
It could be an alien. It could be a “spirit”. Don Juan said there was no limit to what could happen.
But I suspect it’s an inorganic being. It has the classic signs.
The inorganic beings seem to overlap with us only a little, and the part of them you can actually perceive has some tendency to confuse the mind. The 2nd attention comes out to fill in details.
That might seem strange, but if you think about it from a computer programmers’ point of view, that has to be going on continuously, as long as we’re conscious. Carlos called it, “glossing”.
We can’t possibly sense and observe everything needed to interact with the world. I wish the non-programmers could understand this. To try to write a computer program to fully interact with the world as we do, would be an amazing feat. Every single little dot of light, every sound, every sensation, would require the equivalent of 1000 Pentium computers, just to sort out that small piece of data. The brain does it, because it’s fully parallel, a feat of computer engineering we still haven’t mastered. There are 100000000000000000 operations per second going on in the brain, just to figure out what to have for lunch. (Yep, that’s an actual calculation.) You could multiply that by 256 if you wanted to be more fair to the brain.
So just to walk to McDonald’s and get a burger, an amazing amount of information along the way has to be filled in as imaginary data.
With inorganic beings, there’s virtually nothing there to see. But if you look closely at them in their “true” form, the glow and glitter you can see gives off pieces of solid stuff. Like geometric shapes. It doesn’t have to, but if you look at them and relax, the process is continuous.
I guess it sort of short circuits all the computer hardware in our brain, and it goes nuts spinning out phony details.
A lot of people get the impression from Carlos’ books that his Allies take specific forms, like a puma or rabid dog. And myself, I’ve been chased by those men on the road he wrote about.
But that was probably because I’d read the accounts. When your mind fills in missing data, it has to draw from our “history”. Or maybe from “the island of the Tonal”. Whatever piece of bogus information it decides best matches the strange thing it’s witnessing is selected.
That means that expectations and impressions guide the results. And says something about me, that my inorganic turned into a blond in a sailor suit.
I was hoping I could get some of you to learn to see vivid colors in darkness, then do the same thing for you that Carlos did for us in class.
Point you to the boundaries of the brightest thing you see. Stuff can spin off from there, such as writing, “the wall” (a tool for seeing), or even the details of other worlds you can enter.
As for the allies having a fixed appearance, if you read the storyline through all of the books, you’ll end up with a doubt that they ever have the same appearance for any 2 people. La Gorda saw threatening men, Carlos saw crazy people and wild animals, and there’s an account of a basket with teeth.
If someone were out in the woods at night, the brain has to fill in even more details. That’s why darkness helps bring out the nagual.
Then, if there were an inorganic being paying attention to you, you could easily end up seeing that creature. The only surprising thing from my point of view is how long it lasted.
Typically, if you stare at them, they mutate until they either go away, or turn into a collection of lights. Perhaps because there were 3 of you there (including the dog), you had better luck sustaining the image. More power to keep it the same.
In their “true” form, Carlos’ 2 allies form a bar of light, although that word “bar”, used by Carlos, seems unfortunate to me. It’s fatter and shorter than I would think to call a “bar”. You can however try to see it for yourself, but you’d have to become good at lucid dreaming, and spend some time looking around.
I’ll presume that other types of inorganics have a different look. Don Juan said there were 7 realms or worlds from which they come, so I wouldn’t expect them all to look the same.
Carlos’ allies are very high energy. Scary. For me, it’s the intensity of their appearance that makes them frightening, not their appearance. This poster seems to have felt the same because he says, “I started to feel an ominous energy set in and felt impending doom/absolute dread/ burning/tightness in my chest area like when you are about to die or are in a life threatening situation and I had shivers going throughout my body. “
This is a common feeling for people experiencing sleep paralysis. They get conscious while asleep, notice they can’t move, and start to feel a presence in the room. It’s common to hear that it was energetic, and felt like electricity. Or that it was the prince of darkness come to harm them.
The poster also says, “It was soft like Charlies white spirit entering Peters body after the attic scene from "Hereditary" Probably the most solid description I can give of what it looked like.”
That’s remnants of some other information in the brain, which is exactly what colors how an inorganic appears. It wants to interact. It doesn’t care how, or probably even understand the interaction. It only feeds off feelings.
Not all inorganics like the same type of energy. Of Carlos allies, one likes waking energy, the other likes dreaming energy. When the wrong type is given to one, they shy off. Don Juan explains this when Carlos travels to the world of the inorganics, and I saw it myself before I’d read that account again in the last 25 years.
Sudden outbursts, possibly of emotions, cause them to scatter. It’s just too much energy. It would be sort of like if you were holding one of those electric shock machines at Disneyland. I don’t know if they have them anymore, but the machine just keeps turning up the voltage until you have to let go.
At first it’s actually a little pleasant. I guess that’s what the inorganics are after, a usable and pleasant level of energy.
The nagual Julian was said to dole out his energy, keeping them in bondage.
My own little inorganic taught me how to dole out energy to her, by growling. I guess it was the emotion that mattered, not so much the growl. But it works every time.
The poster also says, “Almost immediately after we got out of the forest (left the "entrance" of the forest (which we were not far from) it felt like a huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders and the feeling of dread left pretty much immediately.”
That’s sort of like having your assemblage point shifted by watching something from the second attention. The fright interrupted your internal dialogue, and then all you had to do to shift your assemblage point was look at the being in front of you. The feeling of leaving the forest, as being a weight lifted off your shoulders, means your assemblage point returned back to normal as you fled.
I use that technique when Carlos’ allies get out of hand. I flee to the bathtub. I suspect they’re gone the instant I get 10 feet, but it’s usually too scary to look back. One time they weren’t gone when I looked back, and I had to flee quite far.
The joint you smoked may have helped. There was a magazine article saying that Carlos was a bastard, and when a hippie type asked him if you could use marijuana as a power plant, he told him that the stems are the best part. Make a tea from it.
Of course, any marijuana fan knows, the stems get the shaft. It’s the buds that contain the THC.
Except that, the stems do in fact contain other alkaloids that have an effect, mostly on the rest of the body. These days, people are openly selling some of the other alkaloids in marijuana, as something to regulate the body (cbd).
So while Carlos might have seemed to be malicious saying that, it could in fact be true that a tea made from the whole plant is more effective as a power plant, than smoking the buds.
The stuff in marijuana messes with the internal dialogue, which pushes the assemblage point. A typical reaction to a high dose would be to see hypnogogic images.
Those give entry to the second attention. The problem is, it’s a static point. You’ve been pushed to a fairly stable static point, so trying to move the assemblage point freely, to further positions, becomes more difficult.
In the end, it’s not a good power plant.
[-]
u/orionstarseed
1 points2019-08-12 18:08
"The joint you smoked may have helped."
I specifically stated I was sober when I saw the Tall White Inorganic, it terrified us so much that we didnt venture further into the forest to smoke the joint, we left and smoked the joint inisde. Are whole plan was to go out in the forest at night to go trip around and smoke a joint in the forest and then when we got in the 10-20 feet into the "Enterance" of the forest we noticed the Tall White Inorganic down below, watched it sway silently for a while, felt like I was going to die, and then we took off out of fear.
[-]
u/danl999
3 points2019-08-12 18:16
I guess that means your assemblage point is flexible. However if it's been nearly a decade, it might not be anymore.
Try sitting in a chair and forcing silence, to see if you have dreaming visions. You'll have to remember them through the inevitable blackout that happens to people new to this. It feels like you dozed off, but you can remember a vague dream.
I was practicing that last night. I was silent enough that the walls had the details of the inorganic being's world on them.
But I noticed that I could "relax" my insistence everything has to make sense, and watch dreams. Instantly. If I "unrelaxed" it, they went away.
It could be that "relax" means, allow the nagual to come out. The tonal is a bit of a bully. And it knows how to give a double take, or how to manipulate some cutesy aspect of itself, to guilt trip the nagual to go away. Or to guilt trip itself not to perceive it.
I don't know which it is.
[-]
u/Xupego
2 points2019-08-13 16:36
Wow!!
[-]
u/TechnoMagical_Intent
2 points2019-08-25 23:18
I believe I may have a handle on paranormal incidents where people for instance see a Pterodactyl flying through the air, and start believing that a secret nest of them must be in that area because it was so absolutely real to them.
Anything we see and feel in true dreaming or through the second attention will always appear absolutely real, right down to heat, cold, and texture etc. We even have reciprocal interactions with things in the second attention, making it even more undeniably real; and we assemble our singular "real" reality with the same magic that we assemble other realities, so of course the Pterodactyl will appear to be absolutely real.
But they make the mistake of trying to track the Pterodactyl down in the physical world and naturally fail...are then ridiculed and they and their story are labeled as a fraud. And everyone loses a bit of their wonder.
When in reality it was, at least some of the time, a commendable example of alternative atemporal perception via the second attention. Something to be encouraged...but never is.
Edit: It also likely explains how images of what appear to be dinosaurs are sometimes found on ancient pottery or petroglyphs, even though science tells us humans didn't come along until millions of years later.
9 Comments
Here's the earlier discussion of this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/c8gxzr/paranormal_storytime/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I posted something, but it ended up in a different subreddit (where they'll likely go nuts, not being knowledgeable about castaneda). I guess clicking on the link was the issue.
I hate computers...
Any little mention may wind up being the trigger that ultimately hooks someone. There were probably references to Castaneda in books I'd read over the years before actual discovery, they just didn't stick or weren't specific enough etc. Or I simply wasn't ready to absorb it. This knowledge isn't for the young raised in Western society. Native cultures taught these things to their children as they matured, as we rightly should.
They did indeed, I saw it with my own eyes.
Ruby, the dreaming sorceress, used to sit at an outdoor fire, and tell stories.
Carlos knew both her, and John, the devil's weed sorcerer.
There's still a devil's weed fan club of some kind there. You only have to examine the paintings in the casino to see it.
I guess the main concern is whether that's an inorganic being?
It could be an alien. It could be a “spirit”. Don Juan said there was no limit to what could happen.
But I suspect it’s an inorganic being. It has the classic signs.
The inorganic beings seem to overlap with us only a little, and the part of them you can actually perceive has some tendency to confuse the mind. The 2nd attention comes out to fill in details.
That might seem strange, but if you think about it from a computer programmers’ point of view, that has to be going on continuously, as long as we’re conscious. Carlos called it, “glossing”.
We can’t possibly sense and observe everything needed to interact with the world. I wish the non-programmers could understand this. To try to write a computer program to fully interact with the world as we do, would be an amazing feat. Every single little dot of light, every sound, every sensation, would require the equivalent of 1000 Pentium computers, just to sort out that small piece of data. The brain does it, because it’s fully parallel, a feat of computer engineering we still haven’t mastered. There are 100000000000000000 operations per second going on in the brain, just to figure out what to have for lunch. (Yep, that’s an actual calculation.) You could multiply that by 256 if you wanted to be more fair to the brain.
So just to walk to McDonald’s and get a burger, an amazing amount of information along the way has to be filled in as imaginary data.
With inorganic beings, there’s virtually nothing there to see. But if you look closely at them in their “true” form, the glow and glitter you can see gives off pieces of solid stuff. Like geometric shapes. It doesn’t have to, but if you look at them and relax, the process is continuous.
I guess it sort of short circuits all the computer hardware in our brain, and it goes nuts spinning out phony details.
A lot of people get the impression from Carlos’ books that his Allies take specific forms, like a puma or rabid dog. And myself, I’ve been chased by those men on the road he wrote about.
But that was probably because I’d read the accounts. When your mind fills in missing data, it has to draw from our “history”. Or maybe from “the island of the Tonal”. Whatever piece of bogus information it decides best matches the strange thing it’s witnessing is selected.
That means that expectations and impressions guide the results. And says something about me, that my inorganic turned into a blond in a sailor suit.
I was hoping I could get some of you to learn to see vivid colors in darkness, then do the same thing for you that Carlos did for us in class.
Point you to the boundaries of the brightest thing you see. Stuff can spin off from there, such as writing, “the wall” (a tool for seeing), or even the details of other worlds you can enter.
As for the allies having a fixed appearance, if you read the storyline through all of the books, you’ll end up with a doubt that they ever have the same appearance for any 2 people. La Gorda saw threatening men, Carlos saw crazy people and wild animals, and there’s an account of a basket with teeth.
If someone were out in the woods at night, the brain has to fill in even more details. That’s why darkness helps bring out the nagual.
Then, if there were an inorganic being paying attention to you, you could easily end up seeing that creature. The only surprising thing from my point of view is how long it lasted.
Typically, if you stare at them, they mutate until they either go away, or turn into a collection of lights. Perhaps because there were 3 of you there (including the dog), you had better luck sustaining the image. More power to keep it the same.
In their “true” form, Carlos’ 2 allies form a bar of light, although that word “bar”, used by Carlos, seems unfortunate to me. It’s fatter and shorter than I would think to call a “bar”. You can however try to see it for yourself, but you’d have to become good at lucid dreaming, and spend some time looking around.
I’ll presume that other types of inorganics have a different look. Don Juan said there were 7 realms or worlds from which they come, so I wouldn’t expect them all to look the same.
Carlos’ allies are very high energy. Scary. For me, it’s the intensity of their appearance that makes them frightening, not their appearance. This poster seems to have felt the same because he says, “I started to feel an ominous energy set in and felt impending doom/absolute dread/ burning/tightness in my chest area like when you are about to die or are in a life threatening situation and I had shivers going throughout my body. “
This is a common feeling for people experiencing sleep paralysis. They get conscious while asleep, notice they can’t move, and start to feel a presence in the room. It’s common to hear that it was energetic, and felt like electricity. Or that it was the prince of darkness come to harm them.
The poster also says, “It was soft like Charlies white spirit entering Peters body after the attic scene from "Hereditary" Probably the most solid description I can give of what it looked like.”
That’s remnants of some other information in the brain, which is exactly what colors how an inorganic appears. It wants to interact. It doesn’t care how, or probably even understand the interaction. It only feeds off feelings.
Not all inorganics like the same type of energy. Of Carlos allies, one likes waking energy, the other likes dreaming energy. When the wrong type is given to one, they shy off. Don Juan explains this when Carlos travels to the world of the inorganics, and I saw it myself before I’d read that account again in the last 25 years.
Sudden outbursts, possibly of emotions, cause them to scatter. It’s just too much energy. It would be sort of like if you were holding one of those electric shock machines at Disneyland. I don’t know if they have them anymore, but the machine just keeps turning up the voltage until you have to let go.
At first it’s actually a little pleasant. I guess that’s what the inorganics are after, a usable and pleasant level of energy.
The nagual Julian was said to dole out his energy, keeping them in bondage.
My own little inorganic taught me how to dole out energy to her, by growling. I guess it was the emotion that mattered, not so much the growl. But it works every time.
The poster also says, “Almost immediately after we got out of the forest (left the "entrance" of the forest (which we were not far from) it felt like a huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders and the feeling of dread left pretty much immediately.”
That’s sort of like having your assemblage point shifted by watching something from the second attention. The fright interrupted your internal dialogue, and then all you had to do to shift your assemblage point was look at the being in front of you. The feeling of leaving the forest, as being a weight lifted off your shoulders, means your assemblage point returned back to normal as you fled.
I use that technique when Carlos’ allies get out of hand. I flee to the bathtub. I suspect they’re gone the instant I get 10 feet, but it’s usually too scary to look back. One time they weren’t gone when I looked back, and I had to flee quite far.
The joint you smoked may have helped. There was a magazine article saying that Carlos was a bastard, and when a hippie type asked him if you could use marijuana as a power plant, he told him that the stems are the best part. Make a tea from it.
Of course, any marijuana fan knows, the stems get the shaft. It’s the buds that contain the THC.
Except that, the stems do in fact contain other alkaloids that have an effect, mostly on the rest of the body. These days, people are openly selling some of the other alkaloids in marijuana, as something to regulate the body (cbd).
So while Carlos might have seemed to be malicious saying that, it could in fact be true that a tea made from the whole plant is more effective as a power plant, than smoking the buds.
The stuff in marijuana messes with the internal dialogue, which pushes the assemblage point. A typical reaction to a high dose would be to see hypnogogic images.
Those give entry to the second attention. The problem is, it’s a static point. You’ve been pushed to a fairly stable static point, so trying to move the assemblage point freely, to further positions, becomes more difficult.
In the end, it’s not a good power plant.
"The joint you smoked may have helped."
I specifically stated I was sober when I saw the Tall White Inorganic, it terrified us so much that we didnt venture further into the forest to smoke the joint, we left and smoked the joint inisde. Are whole plan was to go out in the forest at night to go trip around and smoke a joint in the forest and then when we got in the 10-20 feet into the "Enterance" of the forest we noticed the Tall White Inorganic down below, watched it sway silently for a while, felt like I was going to die, and then we took off out of fear.
I guess that means your assemblage point is flexible. However if it's been nearly a decade, it might not be anymore.
Try sitting in a chair and forcing silence, to see if you have dreaming visions. You'll have to remember them through the inevitable blackout that happens to people new to this. It feels like you dozed off, but you can remember a vague dream.
I was practicing that last night. I was silent enough that the walls had the details of the inorganic being's world on them.
But I noticed that I could "relax" my insistence everything has to make sense, and watch dreams. Instantly. If I "unrelaxed" it, they went away.
It could be that "relax" means, allow the nagual to come out. The tonal is a bit of a bully. And it knows how to give a double take, or how to manipulate some cutesy aspect of itself, to guilt trip the nagual to go away. Or to guilt trip itself not to perceive it.
I don't know which it is.
Wow!!
I believe I may have a handle on paranormal incidents where people for instance see a Pterodactyl flying through the air, and start believing that a secret nest of them must be in that area because it was so absolutely real to them.
Anything we see and feel in true dreaming or through the second attention will always appear absolutely real, right down to heat, cold, and texture etc. We even have reciprocal interactions with things in the second attention, making it even more undeniably real; and we assemble our singular "real" reality with the same magic that we assemble other realities, so of course the Pterodactyl will appear to be absolutely real.
But they make the mistake of trying to track the Pterodactyl down in the physical world and naturally fail...are then ridiculed and they and their story are labeled as a fraud. And everyone loses a bit of their wonder.
When in reality it was, at least some of the time, a commendable example of alternative atemporal perception via the second attention. Something to be encouraged...but never is.
Edit: It also likely explains how images of what appear to be dinosaurs are sometimes found on ancient pottery or petroglyphs, even though science tells us humans didn't come along until millions of years later.