This is a good example of how our expectations taint our experiences.
I'm not saying his interpretation of the universe is wrong. I sure don't have those answers.
But he didn't experience near enough to come to that conclusion.
This might be part of what Carlos was attempting to do. Alter the expectations of the Tonal of our time.
With Carlos' view of the universe, this person might have written an entirely different paper.
We can see how Carlos did in fact alter the general population's view of things, by looking at movies affected by his books. There's plenty of them.
I'd also like to add that at a "magical" level, what you expect alters how to perceive (interpret) something abstract.
It's not dissimilar to a witch who had a cobra demon bothering her, and wrote to me trying to get her second sight back.
Since it's a woman, I have no idea what's really going on. But I talked her into staring down the demon, suggesting she could just love it, instead of fearing it.
She couldn't do that, it was too frightening. But eventually just having told her that caused her to relax a bit, and now the demon follows her around like a puppy.
Expectations alter perceptions a tiny bit in the Tonal, but in the second attention they're almost everything you have, if you want to make sense of it.
Like I've said a few times, if it's a woman I have no idea what's really going on.
Men are stupid compared to women! They manipulate us like children.
Thank god...
Cholita is fond of making fun of men by saying they expect her to breast feed them.
My response is always, “Yes please :(”
But I know full well, once they do something like that they own you.
Here's a dangerous thought on women and sorcery.
It's blasphemy!!!! So cover your ears if you're under 60.
What we saw with Carol Tigg's "demonstrations" in Sunday class was in fact typical of sorcery.
I’ll end up trying to do the same with Cholita.
That's 2 times I've seen that kind of situation. Maybe it's always that way.
Cholita has no interest in aggressive male pursuits, like dominating the planet by spreading sorcery theology.
She doesn’t give a shit what anyone else does, as long as they aren’t part of the vast Sino-Trumpian conspiracy to hold her down.
Ok… Maybe that part isn’t typical.
But the attitude likely is.
And look at Cleargreen. For 20 years nothing but inspirational quotes, and an attempt to earn a living by creating a community of tensegrity practitioners.
If you think that isn't so, and there's a secret advanced technique meeting they have on occasion, I don't think so.
I have volunteer scouts all over. People are as worried about Carlos' legacy as me.
None has seen anything like that.
There's no drive to actually copy every technique Carlos wrote about, to prove that it's worth pursuing.
No one seems worried about refuting the general internet consensus that Carlos was a fraud.
It's fine just the way it is!
Just don't read those opinions. You simply have to enjoy swimming in inspirational quotes.
That's all they want. Be a good part of the family.
People even get black listed for trying to step, even a little bit, outside that plan. I've gotten email about that.
Carlos put the women in charge, and they did what women tend to do. They maintained their kingdom as best they could.
Carlos essentially attracted women around him, then pushed them off in the direction he wanted. He likely would have preferred them to run on their own power, but maybe that's just not typical of women.
For newbees, I’ll fill you in on what happened in private classes with Carol Tiggs. And it’s not meant as a criticism. Carol even attended a workshop in 2013, so she stuck around to help.
But what happened was that after a few years of private classes, or as my memory recalls it, only one, almost the entire Sunday Class had secretly concluded that Carlos might indeed be a little nuts.
And maybe some of it was delusional.
It was because they wanted to see him leap over a house, like don Juan did for Carol. Or summon hell by stomping around in unison, as Genaro did for Carlos.
Or slap them on the back, to make them instantly "special".
Carlos never did anything like that. Possibly because he couldn't.
Carlos of course had been slowly building up the energy bodies of participants, and tinkering with them using his lectures and the edge of his hand on their back. Cholita is a masterpiece!
He could see to the heart of things (occasionally) and stick a tiny bomb where it would do the most good.
His tensegrity was designed to be astounding in its scope, but only once you figured out what it really was.
Last night I was trying out the Maui pass. I've been forming balls of energy and tossing them at the inside of "the wall".
But that pass sends them up using a gaze. I tend to compress them with hands, and use my hands to send them off.
That Maui pass surely does send the energy balls up, using just one's gaze! And it pulls you along, changing the second attention's perspective. It even suggests that you could pass through the floor, using that movement.
I suspect all of the tensegrity moves include some gift like that. Maybe the gifts are nothing more than something Carlos learned to do, and he's trying to pass on his cool technique collection.
That's just not obvious if you're only going through the moves, and can't see the energy.
Carlos' teaching was superb, but for whatever reason he didn’t seem to be able to give any magic demonstrations in class. He just couldn't activate our second attention, so that we were conscious of it.
I guess we could refer back to don Juan trying to show the Nagual to several apprentices, and each one seeing something different.
Don Juan said something about how he didn’t have enough energy to make them all see the same thing.
This also relates back to what does an inorganic being look like?
A collection of lights, that’s what it actually looks like, here in our realm and in these bodies.
But what you see is your worst fear, or greatest love, or most exciting stranger.
The second attention is so flexible, you can’t really force it to see or do anything.
So Carlos, not having enough energy to give us a clear view of the second attention, brought Carol Tiggs to class on 2 occasions. Nagual women have tons of energy, even if they don't use it for much.
I tried the same thing with Jenna, and the 4 women I gathered after 2 years of stalking.
Didn't work out, but it was the same thing Carlos was doing. He tried to use the energy of a double woman, to move people's assemblage points using his own intent.
He said that Carol wanted to show us something.
And it worked!
I got the brown tunnel that Carlos describes as the inorganic beings realm. I just fell right into it, when Carol did her thing to me. I was sitting in there, wondering how the tunnel was dug.
(Typical nerd).
Corey practically fainted the other time Carol demonstrated. Someone posted class notes on that.
He was assembling another world!
But the knowledge that would have let him realize that wasn’t present, so he was afraid of embarrassing himself in class by keeling over.
All in all, the general consensus about Carol's demonstrations was that Carlos had put her up to it, and it failed. A cheap stage magician act was what some were saying.
But what was really happening was likely that Carlos used the energy of a woman, to do what he didn’t have enough energy to accomplish.
I have the same plans for Cholita.
It’s not because Carol or Cholita couldn’t manage to help people on their own.
It’s just that, they aren’t interested in that.
You can get them to buddy up to you, knowing you’re a sorcerer. And they might even adopt the lifestyle of sorcerers, as long as it doesn’t interfere with their interests.
But to go around actively fighting to manage apprentices, is less attractive to them.
So here’s the blasphemy.
Maybe, just maybe, Zuleica and Zoila lived where they did, because they couldn’t fend for themselves. They were too mad to survive in society.
Strays, with nowhere else to go.
Marta took care of them in that house, but don Juan and Silvio Manuel were the ones behind it.
They got Marta to take care of the westerly women. It wasn't actually her idea.
With those powerful women living there, don Juan could bring “guests” like young Carlos and La Gorda, and Zuleica was happy to entertain them with her dreaming skills. They were in her kingdom now, and she wanted to show it in the best light.
But on her own, she wouldn’t have done it.
What about witches who teach other witches, the Wiccans might say. That's the same as don Juan teaching apprentices. So my argument is full of hot air.
It might indeed be. It's just speculation at this point.
And Wiccan's, I have nothing against you. You're more powerful then the men.
I read, "Witchcraft Today" three times!
And I loved the cover. At age 12 back then, with no internet, sexy pictures were difficult to acquire.
But, despite that book which formed the initial basis of Wicca, written by a man I might add, women just don't have the same goals as men.
They'll do the orgies (I'm kind of surprised by that). But chasing after world domination one apprentice at a time, just isn't their thing. If they teach another woman, it's likely because they enjoy her company.
And Carlos' books have a heavy male point of view. People got hooked based on that view.
We assumed that the women and men in his books were both part of exactly the same quest.
I'm just saying, it isn't so. And it would be good for the clueless men to keep that in mind.
You have to buy the curtains. It's not negotiable. That's all I'm saying.
Edit:
If you read this and didn't notice that La Gorda is an exception to my argument, you need to keep a little more doubt when you read what I write.
It's all just speculation. We don't have any actual sorcerers around to answer difficult questions.
But I wanted to let people in my situation, in the future, know that there's room for morbid speculation. Maybe Sorcery groups aren't as neat as they seem in Carlos' books. And it's normal.
[-]
u/canastataa
1 points2019-10-20 19:17
I enjoy these type of jewels. Too much recreational psycedelics can have negative impact imo.
I've seen interesting stories in /r askreddit with on death experience. One guy saw himself as he was smashed by a car. Another on the surgery table. Amazing glimples of the nagual immersion by ordinary people. It could be confirmation bias but i doubt it. The same concept repeats itself around the world. In my language for example we have "my soul left my body" as a slang for being totally exhausted.
​
Can you imagine if we are truly made of light !? Neurons run on very low voltage for example, thus even in the most physical sense we are a "flow of current" And the nagual goes beyond that. Becoming aware of it and utilisating this is the next big breakpoint for human civilisation.
Edited synthax multiple times.
[-]
u/TechnoMagical_Intent
2 points2019-10-20 20:30
Too much recreational psycedelics can have negative impact imo.
People just don't get the message, if they're not aware of Castaneda, that they aren't needed for a good chunk of people. And for those that do need them to make their initial progress, they don't need to continue using them.
Power plants can then become another shield that will need to be dismantled. Native cultures used them sparingly, and definitely not for recreation!
DMT is a rarified neuro-modulator, one that only blossoms under specific and largely predictable circumstances (like near death). I wouldn't be surprised if science eventually discovered that the shaman/mystic through effort and intending cultivates higher and more persistent levels of this neuro-transmitter in their system.
So the psychadelia receptor is closely related to sleeping states, interesting.
[-]
u/TechnoMagical_Intent
2 points2019-10-22 10:19
So when taken you enter into the spectrum of sleep states while retaining lucid consciousness. In other words DREAMING AWAKE.
I love it when science begins confirming fringe experiences, bringing them into the wheelhouse of skeptics where additional fallacies may be shed and some minds may be opened.
And for those in the USA Chicago's legalization really is a big deal but the way. The midwest isn't exactly a hive of hippy cultural remnants, take it from one born and raised there.
9 Comments
If this momentum keeps going, it may eventually get more crowded in here:
https://psychedelicreview.com/chicago-follows-oakland-decriminalizes-psychedelic-plants/
And, further, this has finally been experimentally proven:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/c89t7k/mystical_psychedelic_compound_found_in_normal/
[deleted]
This is a good example of how our expectations taint our experiences.
I'm not saying his interpretation of the universe is wrong. I sure don't have those answers.
But he didn't experience near enough to come to that conclusion.
This might be part of what Carlos was attempting to do. Alter the expectations of the Tonal of our time.
With Carlos' view of the universe, this person might have written an entirely different paper.
We can see how Carlos did in fact alter the general population's view of things, by looking at movies affected by his books. There's plenty of them.
I'd also like to add that at a "magical" level, what you expect alters how to perceive (interpret) something abstract.
It's not dissimilar to a witch who had a cobra demon bothering her, and wrote to me trying to get her second sight back.
Since it's a woman, I have no idea what's really going on. But I talked her into staring down the demon, suggesting she could just love it, instead of fearing it.
She couldn't do that, it was too frightening. But eventually just having told her that caused her to relax a bit, and now the demon follows her around like a puppy.
Expectations alter perceptions a tiny bit in the Tonal, but in the second attention they're almost everything you have, if you want to make sense of it.
Edited
OP was a woman named "Ashleigh Brazell," that's why the language in her DMT trip diary was quite sweet 🤩💖.
Oh.
Like I've said a few times, if it's a woman I have no idea what's really going on.
Men are stupid compared to women! They manipulate us like children.
Thank god...
Cholita is fond of making fun of men by saying they expect her to breast feed them.
My response is always, “Yes please :(”
But I know full well, once they do something like that they own you.
Here's a dangerous thought on women and sorcery.
It's blasphemy!!!! So cover your ears if you're under 60.
What we saw with Carol Tigg's "demonstrations" in Sunday class was in fact typical of sorcery.
I’ll end up trying to do the same with Cholita.
That's 2 times I've seen that kind of situation. Maybe it's always that way.
Cholita has no interest in aggressive male pursuits, like dominating the planet by spreading sorcery theology.
She doesn’t give a shit what anyone else does, as long as they aren’t part of the vast Sino-Trumpian conspiracy to hold her down.
Ok… Maybe that part isn’t typical.
But the attitude likely is.
And look at Cleargreen. For 20 years nothing but inspirational quotes, and an attempt to earn a living by creating a community of tensegrity practitioners.
If you think that isn't so, and there's a secret advanced technique meeting they have on occasion, I don't think so.
I have volunteer scouts all over. People are as worried about Carlos' legacy as me.
None has seen anything like that.
There's no drive to actually copy every technique Carlos wrote about, to prove that it's worth pursuing.
No one seems worried about refuting the general internet consensus that Carlos was a fraud.
It's fine just the way it is!
Just don't read those opinions. You simply have to enjoy swimming in inspirational quotes.
That's all they want. Be a good part of the family.
People even get black listed for trying to step, even a little bit, outside that plan. I've gotten email about that.
Carlos put the women in charge, and they did what women tend to do. They maintained their kingdom as best they could.
Carlos essentially attracted women around him, then pushed them off in the direction he wanted. He likely would have preferred them to run on their own power, but maybe that's just not typical of women.
For newbees, I’ll fill you in on what happened in private classes with Carol Tiggs. And it’s not meant as a criticism. Carol even attended a workshop in 2013, so she stuck around to help.
But what happened was that after a few years of private classes, or as my memory recalls it, only one, almost the entire Sunday Class had secretly concluded that Carlos might indeed be a little nuts.
And maybe some of it was delusional.
It was because they wanted to see him leap over a house, like don Juan did for Carol. Or summon hell by stomping around in unison, as Genaro did for Carlos.
Or slap them on the back, to make them instantly "special".
Carlos never did anything like that. Possibly because he couldn't.
Carlos of course had been slowly building up the energy bodies of participants, and tinkering with them using his lectures and the edge of his hand on their back. Cholita is a masterpiece!
He could see to the heart of things (occasionally) and stick a tiny bomb where it would do the most good.
His tensegrity was designed to be astounding in its scope, but only once you figured out what it really was.
Last night I was trying out the Maui pass. I've been forming balls of energy and tossing them at the inside of "the wall".
But that pass sends them up using a gaze. I tend to compress them with hands, and use my hands to send them off.
That Maui pass surely does send the energy balls up, using just one's gaze! And it pulls you along, changing the second attention's perspective. It even suggests that you could pass through the floor, using that movement.
I suspect all of the tensegrity moves include some gift like that. Maybe the gifts are nothing more than something Carlos learned to do, and he's trying to pass on his cool technique collection.
That's just not obvious if you're only going through the moves, and can't see the energy.
Carlos' teaching was superb, but for whatever reason he didn’t seem to be able to give any magic demonstrations in class. He just couldn't activate our second attention, so that we were conscious of it.
I guess we could refer back to don Juan trying to show the Nagual to several apprentices, and each one seeing something different.
Don Juan said something about how he didn’t have enough energy to make them all see the same thing.
This also relates back to what does an inorganic being look like?
A collection of lights, that’s what it actually looks like, here in our realm and in these bodies.
But what you see is your worst fear, or greatest love, or most exciting stranger.
The second attention is so flexible, you can’t really force it to see or do anything.
So Carlos, not having enough energy to give us a clear view of the second attention, brought Carol Tiggs to class on 2 occasions. Nagual women have tons of energy, even if they don't use it for much.
I tried the same thing with Jenna, and the 4 women I gathered after 2 years of stalking.
Didn't work out, but it was the same thing Carlos was doing. He tried to use the energy of a double woman, to move people's assemblage points using his own intent.
He said that Carol wanted to show us something.
And it worked!
I got the brown tunnel that Carlos describes as the inorganic beings realm. I just fell right into it, when Carol did her thing to me. I was sitting in there, wondering how the tunnel was dug.
(Typical nerd).
Corey practically fainted the other time Carol demonstrated. Someone posted class notes on that.
He was assembling another world!
But the knowledge that would have let him realize that wasn’t present, so he was afraid of embarrassing himself in class by keeling over.
All in all, the general consensus about Carol's demonstrations was that Carlos had put her up to it, and it failed. A cheap stage magician act was what some were saying.
But what was really happening was likely that Carlos used the energy of a woman, to do what he didn’t have enough energy to accomplish.
I have the same plans for Cholita.
It’s not because Carol or Cholita couldn’t manage to help people on their own.
It’s just that, they aren’t interested in that.
You can get them to buddy up to you, knowing you’re a sorcerer. And they might even adopt the lifestyle of sorcerers, as long as it doesn’t interfere with their interests.
But to go around actively fighting to manage apprentices, is less attractive to them.
So here’s the blasphemy.
Maybe, just maybe, Zuleica and Zoila lived where they did, because they couldn’t fend for themselves. They were too mad to survive in society.
Strays, with nowhere else to go.
Marta took care of them in that house, but don Juan and Silvio Manuel were the ones behind it.
They got Marta to take care of the westerly women. It wasn't actually her idea.
With those powerful women living there, don Juan could bring “guests” like young Carlos and La Gorda, and Zuleica was happy to entertain them with her dreaming skills. They were in her kingdom now, and she wanted to show it in the best light.
But on her own, she wouldn’t have done it.
What about witches who teach other witches, the Wiccans might say. That's the same as don Juan teaching apprentices. So my argument is full of hot air.
It might indeed be. It's just speculation at this point.
And Wiccan's, I have nothing against you. You're more powerful then the men.
I read, "Witchcraft Today" three times!
And I loved the cover. At age 12 back then, with no internet, sexy pictures were difficult to acquire.
But, despite that book which formed the initial basis of Wicca, written by a man I might add, women just don't have the same goals as men.
They'll do the orgies (I'm kind of surprised by that). But chasing after world domination one apprentice at a time, just isn't their thing. If they teach another woman, it's likely because they enjoy her company.
And Carlos' books have a heavy male point of view. People got hooked based on that view.
We assumed that the women and men in his books were both part of exactly the same quest.
I'm just saying, it isn't so. And it would be good for the clueless men to keep that in mind.
You have to buy the curtains. It's not negotiable. That's all I'm saying.
Edit:
If you read this and didn't notice that La Gorda is an exception to my argument, you need to keep a little more doubt when you read what I write.
It's all just speculation. We don't have any actual sorcerers around to answer difficult questions.
But I wanted to let people in my situation, in the future, know that there's room for morbid speculation. Maybe Sorcery groups aren't as neat as they seem in Carlos' books. And it's normal.
I enjoy these type of jewels. Too much recreational psycedelics can have negative impact imo.
I've seen interesting stories in /r askreddit with on death experience. One guy saw himself as he was smashed by a car. Another on the surgery table. Amazing glimples of the nagual immersion by ordinary people. It could be confirmation bias but i doubt it. The same concept repeats itself around the world. In my language for example we have "my soul left my body" as a slang for being totally exhausted.
​
Can you imagine if we are truly made of light !? Neurons run on very low voltage for example, thus even in the most physical sense we are a "flow of current" And the nagual goes beyond that. Becoming aware of it and utilisating this is the next big breakpoint for human civilisation.
Edited synthax multiple times.
People just don't get the message, if they're not aware of Castaneda, that they aren't needed for a good chunk of people. And for those that do need them to make their initial progress, they don't need to continue using them.
Power plants can then become another shield that will need to be dismantled. Native cultures used them sparingly, and definitely not for recreation!
DMT is a rarified neuro-modulator, one that only blossoms under specific and largely predictable circumstances (like near death). I wouldn't be surprised if science eventually discovered that the shaman/mystic through effort and intending cultivates higher and more persistent levels of this neuro-transmitter in their system.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnins.2018.00536/full
So the psychadelia receptor is closely related to sleeping states, interesting.
So when taken you enter into the spectrum of sleep states while retaining lucid consciousness. In other words DREAMING AWAKE.
I love it when science begins confirming fringe experiences, bringing them into the wheelhouse of skeptics where additional fallacies may be shed and some minds may be opened.
And for those in the USA Chicago's legalization really is a big deal but the way. The midwest isn't exactly a hive of hippy cultural remnants, take it from one born and raised there.