"Now, before you go thinking that all these videos are all about his NDE – no. What we’re really experiencing through his excellent story-telling skills is his life story. And let me tell you, it’s all very riveting! I don’t want to give away too much with this introduction because he tells it the best. But just briefly, Nathan says he has been psychic to a degree since childhood. He tells us of his adventures throughout his life and leading up to his NDE.
Nathan’s has a heart condition (which we call a “dysrhythmia”) where his heart beat is very irregular, and it’s irregular to the point where it stops at times. He had dizziness and fainting spells from it and it took a couple of years before he was finally diagnosed and had a pacemaker implanted. The pacemaker will now “pace” his heart for him if it stops for a set length of time. But just before that is when his heart stopped for long enough for him to leave his body and experience heaven."
It's actually not all that difficult to visit heaven. If you read Esoterica (a European book catalog category for literature about weird stuff), you run into accounts of mystics visiting heaven or hell quite often.
I've been there 4 times, and in one I got a sort of "proof" out of it. Not all that convincing, but enough to make me wonder where I really visited.
Taoists seem to be a little obsessed with it. Possibly because it sells stuff, the same way the old testament complains often about people selling false idols. Temples in Asia sell paintings and objects with the portraits of the characters from the Taoist hierarchy of heaven. Many ancestor worship setups (they have them in homes and businesses) portray Taoist figures.
When people speak about these fetishes, they often have reverence in their tone of voice.
Don't be fooled. They got that from the place they purchased it. It's no more significant than someone telling you how tasty a particular street vendors stinky tofu is.
They're as clueless about it all as you are.
Taoists have given the impression they can visit any time they like, and they've mapped out a complex scheme for how it's arranged. It's been a long time since a Chinese person chatted with me about it, but I believe there are even fights between characters in heaven.
But in fact, if you practice meditation or contemplative prayer, and have a crappy life like everyone else, it's almost inevitable that you'll get a look at heaven.
The meditation or prayer helps the assemblage point get loose, and if you practice a lot of it your second attention comes out. You have mini-visions, weird sensations, a sense of being, "One" with everything. That kind of stuff.
You're just ripe for assembling another world.
Add on to that even a hint of praying in your own native religion, and you've selected the intent of a visit to heaven.
An even more fortuitous situation, for visits to heaven, is to be deathly ill. The Jewish portion of the bible even implies that's the only way you can visit, if you are dying.
But you just have to be ill enough to push your assemblage point. A good case of food poisoning will do the trick.
Now put aside whether the worlds you assemble are real, or just phantom realities.
Is that really Heaven?
It doesn't matter because the experience is so real, you have no doubts you were just there.
The main problem if you ask me is, everyone's heaven seems to conform mostly to what they were told about it.
It's someone else's intent. Or a whole lot of other people.
What to do about visiting heaven?
Nothing. Leave it alone.
Have a good time! But don't convert to any religion just yet.
A few visits to heaven are meaningless.
As Don Juan said, it's part of the Island of the Tonal.
We're trying to look outside all that.
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u/missgregoryhouse
1 points2019-12-16 16:33
What was heaven like for you?
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u/danl999
4 points2019-12-16 17:56
First time, I can't recall anymore. I was almost dead when I saw it. I'd just returned from Mexico City, and had serious food poisoning.
Second time, I saw a giant garden with rolling hills of grass and flowers, a perfectly blue sky, and old Greek looking buildings nearby.
I was laying on a "couch" (see Kabalah writings), along with a double woman I was stalking.
The "couch" was a sort of rusty orange color.
Oddly, Cholita has been insisting I have to buy her a couch in that color, or she'll kill herself. When she first saw it at a store, all I could think about was, that's the same color as the one in heaven.
If she isn't dead yet, I'll get it for her when she returns from wherever she fled to.
Laying on that couch in heaven, I had the absolute certainty that no one had left. We were all still there, dreaming our life in the flesh. It was a test of sorts.
I was laying on my side, and the double woman nudged me to turn to my left. I saw a differernt woman emerge from one of the greek buildings. I knew she'd just come from meeting with some officials, or managers there.
She walked up to me very close, like she wanted me to stare into her face for a while.
I have face blindness. It takes me many times before I can recognize someone new.
Staring at her face woke me up.
The next day, I ran into that woman at a convenience store. She gave me a look like she knew me, smiled, and left. I watched her walk to her car outside the store. A couple of young men tossed her into the back area, like a piece of luggage. They were laughing.
Another time, I was still engaged in stalking that double woman (Jenna), but in Asia. I had a business deal going on, and part of my plan involved worrying the Singapore rep about my bad habits.
So while the traditional over-drinking ritual would be 6 shots of whiskey (an estimate), I drank 10 in the course of 20 minutes.
I pretty much poisoned myself with alcohol, but it accomplished what I wanted.
The next day I was horribly hung over, so I sat up in the hotel lobby, meditating. I found myself in the waiting room for heaven.
It was ornamented everywhere, with carvings and gold decorations. I was sitting on red velvet cushions.
The Singapore rep woke up and came to the hotel lobby to find me sitting there. He asked me what I was doing, so I told him the truth. I'm in the waiting room of heaven.
Being a Daoist, he didn't find that odd. He just asked me to describe it.
Edited
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u/missgregoryhouse
2 points2019-12-16 19:03
I feel like the biggest issue with "visiting" places like that is that you can never separate the tonal, it will describe everything for you. You can't experience anything in its pure form, don't you think?
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
2 points2019-12-16 19:57
You can get pretty close to seeing pure form, but it takes a boatload of work and a strong intent to scrub the residue of the tonal and achieve deep, deep silence. Even then, what you see will likely still have a smidge of it.
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u/danl999
3 points2019-12-16 20:33
Yes, absolutely.
Carol Tiggs even explained it in a lecture, saying when Carlos and her visited another world, on a consistent basis, they weren't really seeing it the way the inhabitants did.
As for heaven, the accounts I've read of people visiting always conform to their birth religion.
So why you can visit heaven is still up in the air. Does it really exist, and sorcerers seek to go "outside the gate", which is the ultimate punishment in the bible?
To be scorned by God, and live away from his light. Could that be the outcome of sorcery.
Or is God merely an element of the Tonal, and on death you may or may not perceive that you went there. But in fact, your awareness was consumed.
That's why I like to stay out of the religion business. It's impossible to know what's really going on, at our level.
Maybe later...
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u/missgregoryhouse
1 points2019-12-17 06:27
It's the most frustrating thing and as a human, of course I want to know what's going to happen when I die. I used to read a lot about NDE-s and different channeled material and there's so much talk about reincarnation but most stories sound...silly, like actual children stories. I assume it's because their islands of the tonal are overflowing.
Then a while back, I read an interview with Carlos where he said that reincarnation definitely isn't a thing. Which doesn't bother me since I'm not interested in coming back here anyway.
But our awareness being consumed, in the form of our personality and life experience, is very likely. Is it possible though that the sorcerers couldn't see beyond that point and our essence is preserved and forced into a cycle of rebirths? At the end of a lifetime, more food for the Eagle, right?
I'm not concerned about anything from the religious point of view, including god.
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u/danl999
3 points2019-12-17 17:29
I don't have any answers on those topics.
And for my goals, it's best to keep out of the religion business, and try to make it more like technology.
Just something you can learn to do.
And you should only focus on the next thing you can learn.
I have a student who's learned to be silent, and finds himself alone in the universe. He's worried that's a permanent condition.
That's probably why don Juan's river of shit analogy has most going back into the river, even after a sorcerer washes them off and shows them what's outside the river.
He asked me if I felt that.
Sure, but also bliss and awe. And it’s not good to focus on things like that.
Just focus on whether Cholita can learn to move dim sum plates on demand!
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u/missgregoryhouse
2 points2019-12-17 17:47
I don't think I'll ever learn sorcery. I already have too many questions and it seems like I'll never get any answers. It's a lot of work only to end up with even more unanswered questions.
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u/danl999
5 points2019-12-17 17:55
It is straying off the beaten path. And while it's empty out there, and hard to figure out what's up, it also makes our cozy original state of mind look weak and dysfunctional.
Possibly there's an explanation for why Cleargreen's evolved to be much tamer than Carlos ever was. It's a safer way to incorporate sorcery, without feeling the chill of being outside the river of shit.
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u/missgregoryhouse
2 points2019-12-17 18:10
No, it is weak and dysfunctional. And I guess the hardest thing is when you can't go back to that but can't proceed with sorcery either. Where the hell do you go?
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u/danl999
3 points2019-12-17 18:17
I guess that's where the "impeccable warrior" thing is a little helpful.
Just always do your best at whatever you're doing.
That'll strengthen the Tonal.
Contrast that with Cholita, who's Tonal is nearly gone.
Everything she had is lost. Job, husband, home, personal belongings.
She became angry from the paranoid schizophrenia, and systematically destroyed everything around her.
She didn't do her best. She did her worst. And on purpose, even if she isn't fully aware of it.
I have 3 repair jobs she asked me to do on our home, but she's stopped me at the last moment.
If I let her supervise one, so she won't be paranoid about it, she picks the worst thing you can do and does it.
Like opening all the packaging and throwing away the instructions.
Or trying to skip steps in the process, because she's impatient.
Or finding the worst and most hurtful things to say to people around her.
Everyone has a little Cholita in them.
Reduce that part and the rest should get stronger.
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u/missgregoryhouse
2 points2019-12-17 18:31
But isn't that the opposite of what you want to achieve? Not the impeccable thing, but the strong tonal. I always had the idea that it should be reduced to the bare minimum and abandoned in a way if you want to be truly dedicated. Or is that only if the spirit chooses you? I feel like everything their party was doing in the outside world was stalking.
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u/danl999
4 points2019-12-17 20:55
I thought you'd decided not to pursue sorcery. So I was telling you how to just "hang out", without committing.
That's what Cholita and I did for decades. But we kept practicing anyway, a little.
Cholita of course, is obsessed with sex. So her idea of hanging out, was chasing men.
I'm autistic, so I started a few high tech enterprises.
But we always did "our best", even if Cholita's idea is the opposite of mine.
You want a strong Tonal so that you're life is ok, and then whatever your hobby is, that's fine.
If it's sorcery, it's going to muck up everything. It's just the way it is.
Probably it's why Carlos blew the group up. So everyone could make a choice.
I'm hoping to accumulate enough knowledge, by openly helping people, to tell when someone's not going to take well to sorcery.
In that case, I'd send them to Buddhism. If they still wanted some magic in their life.
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u/missgregoryhouse
1 points2019-12-18 05:58
Oh, I understand now. I suppose that's what I've been doing. But I'm still interested and want to learn about it, even if I don't practice.
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u/danl999
3 points2019-12-18 16:49
It's possible that you could learn simply by intending it. Along the way you'd have to watch for that cubic centimeter of chance, but I believe it could be done that way.
You really can't tell where things come from in the long run.
Cholita was sneaking around the house last night, having returned from wherever she disappeared to.
Her dreaming double brought me a gift. She stood to the left of my bed, around 2AM. Of course, when you see something like that, you wonder if it's real.
Cholita isn't sane enough to ask about it. So I'll just assume, since I hadn't seen her dreaming during the time she was gone, and she just returned and there it is, that's her.
It was her current age, not the age I usually see her wearing, when she's in her dreaming body.
It was so stable, I looked to the left and right of it, to make sure it was directional. It certainly was.
Directional means, it's where it is, not where you look.
If any of you remembers that, and tries to make use of it while practicing, don't be too black and white about it.
It can be sort of in the middle. Directional in the range you check, but if you wanted you could swipe or scoop it to another location in the room (mostly).
Looking to the left of her and to the right, I noticed a fold of light down the middle.
I realized, I was producing it. It was as if my gaze, in order to determine directionality, had to be a long line. Not a point.
Usually when I gaze in dreaming, I'm staring at a point only. I can even burn a hole in the darkness and pull things from it, using that gaze.
This gaze was an entire line, around the height of the room.
I could burn it across the room, to solidify dreaming images floating around. They became frozen to wherever they were at the time, and intensified at least 3 times brighter.
It was as if a line pinned them down more than a point could, a point being somewhat disruptive since it singles out details, leaving the rest dim.
A line singles out a line of details, which keeps them more stable.
Now if only I can figure out if Cholita picked that up somewhere. But chances are, I'll never know where she went.
The strangest thing might be, Cholita is a "scout". Scouts go out and find valuable things, and come back and tell someone.
She did.
Edit: A techy comment.
I pionered in the area of digital photography. Over the years I've seen light sensors, line sensors, and area sensors.
Everyone here over 50 might have seen all 3 come along. Light sensors were used to detect beams of light. For instance, if you walk into a store, they could make a bell ring because you broke the beam of light. For an instant, you were pinned down.
The line sensors were in flat bed scanners in the beginning, for making digital images from film. The photo had to be "scanned" by moving the sensor across the page. At each point, it made a line of light and converted it into digital images. The reality of that line was pinned down for an instant.
I guess gazing works the same way. Beginning gazing is a small area in the middle. The way you're used to using your eyes.
The next logical step is a line sensor.
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u/danl999
4 points2019-12-18 17:06
I forgot an important detail. Cholita was commenting on what I was doing with the line scan. But there weren't any words to hear.
I scanned back and forth for a long time, until Cholita pointed out, the left side was more profitable than the right side of the room. There was more to be found on that half.
She'd discovered 2 very bright vertical bars, part of a doorway. She wanted me to light that up only, and stop wasting time on the other half of the room.
I began to worry about her. She seemed to be getting lost on the left half of the dreaming images, which although they were mostly abstract, could in fact trap someone's awareness.
I lay down and went to sleep. It was too far to go.
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u/missgregoryhouse
1 points2019-12-18 19:45
Is she the only woman you know who's practicing?
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u/danl999
3 points2019-12-18 20:15
I'm afraid so.
If you don't count Kylie and the Witches. And I have no idea what's going on with Aerin.
I guess it's possible that the whole "impeccable warrior" thing ultimately works, and some Cleargreen women are in a high state of sorcery.
As they tend to publicly portray, I might add.
But if they are, why did they let Carlos' reputation on the web go to shit? Why let people write things saying Carlos was a perverted narcissist, without pointing out that it all works exactly as he said?
No one cares if a real sorcerer is a perverted narcissist. The Nagual Julian is a favorite among some readers.
But someone who would make up such a thing, is open to any criticism you care to give him.
Why isn't Cleargreen fighting back?
If someone told me Carlos was a fraud, I'd ask where that door to infinity I saw last night actually leads, and if Cholita and I could both have crossed over.
I was staring at it for a long time last night, deciding if it was a good idea for Cholita to go through. She couldn't manage without my mass.
Cleargreen should be posting their experiences to help out Carlos.
We should be hearing, "Those cleargreen people are nuts!!! Have you read what they're claiming?"
Instead, we read who ended up in Carlos' bed, and how.
It's like believing they've secretly mastered kungfu, but are unwilling to protect someone being bullied nearby.
I hope I'm wrong, and tonight when I enter a dream world, they're waiting to beat me up.
Cholita would love to help.
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u/missgregoryhouse
2 points2019-12-19 06:24
Wouldn't it be self-important to try to defend a dead man's reputation on the internet? No one could succeed in that. People will always think what suits them. It's easier to believe Carlos was a pervert who used "sorcery" to get all the women. That's what everyone would do. It's also easier to believe there's no such thing as sorcery and to enjoy their pathetic mundane lives in which they talk shit about people they never knew. I see why you'd think it's important to defend Carlos, but even if his reputation was restored, do you think anyone would pay attention and become interested in sorcery? Doubt it. Every person who felt he wasn't a fraud and read his books, did so despite the articles. So in reality, there's nothing do defend. His work is serving its purpose. At least in my opinion.
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u/danl999
3 points2019-12-19 19:35
Wouldn't it be self-important to try to defend a dead man's reputation on the internet?
I'm not worried about losing self-importance. I'm a stormtrooper.
We just use it wisely. We don't get rid of it.
But yes, your idea is magnificent! I never thought of it. Just agree, yep. He was a big pervert. But what a sorcerer!
Might work.
As far as your idea there's nothing that needs to be done, and the serious people will take him seriously?
I have bad news for you. Cholita and I are probably all that's left of private classes.
Being serious and believing against all odds wasn't enough.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
2 points2019-12-19 20:26
My sneaking suspicion is that the ones who have and are still serious practitioners simply don't broadcast the fact. They're content to let the new people much around with doubt and the counter-intent of others in person and on the net, because that's what they themselves did (minus the internet!)...and it's worked out for them. A necessary and excruciating developing process.
If you're walking miles away from that "river of shit," and have zero desire to walk back over and get your hands dirty, ignoring the plight of the river dwellers may be the default outlook. Only help those who directly cross your path and whatnot.
And I think Carlos probably also knew that private classes were going to end up as an almost total failure, because of the reason most were there...enamored hero worship.
The 20 million plus readers around the globe, those largely silent masses doing their own thing with the teachings, are the unsung success story.
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u/danl999
4 points2019-12-19 20:39
You might be right.
The further I get, the more I think, why should I care about what else is going on?
Fortunately, I'm stuck with Cholita. Can't go drifting off too far.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
1 points2019-12-19 20:50
And we here are thankful for that!
Those gifts he embedded in private class students may manifest in unexpected ways further down the line. Possibly much further...
Carlos was strategizing for the long haul.
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u/danl999
3 points2019-12-19 21:19
Me too. Cholita's a blast! And she hasn't hit me in several days.
I had another thought about the missing apprentices. This one is a little sad.
I directly contacted one of them, who informed me he was lucky to escape without killing himself, when Carlos died.
I'm autistic. That kind of "feely" stuff doesn't get through to me. I was thinking, "So what. You were an asshole. Now you're not!"
But no, he didn't return.
I tried with another, who freaked out.
She began to post endless delusional political nonsense, retweeting really ignorant but angry stuff.
It was like she had a mini-breakdown just by me reminding her there's unfinished business.
Carlos blew it up too well. That's the other explanation.
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u/missgregoryhouse
1 points2019-12-20 06:16
Trying to get people to listen and believe is a huge waste of energy.
And I agree with you, there are many out there minding their business.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
2 points2019-12-17 18:11
That good. When you've run out of unanswered questions, and believe you "know everything," you'll then have two feet in the grave as far as I'm concerned.
And I have news for you, the fact that you're reading and posting here means you are in fact "learning sorcery."
Don Juan Matus:
"We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it."
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u/missgregoryhouse
2 points2019-12-17 18:25
I forgot about that quote, thank you for reminding me. I take things literally, like these books. Some things I never would've realized are metaphors or didn't happen exactly that way as written. That's not really helpful because it makes me feel like I'm not learning and making any progress. But then I look at the person I was a few years ago and it's like "what happened?"
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
2 points2019-12-17 18:50
To continue the quote string:
"You must un-learn what you have learned."
Yoda
Or as Castaneda said "not-doing what you know how to do," or doing something in as radically different way as is possible and practical.
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u/missgregoryhouse
2 points2019-12-17 19:12
Not-doing has been on my mind lately actually.
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u/danl999
5 points2019-12-18 20:34
You could learn sorcery entirely though not-doing!
I sure wouldn't want to do that.
It would be even more work.
Unless, you have the circumstances to make it natural. Or unless you're very clever.
I might try that with Cholita, if she's talking today!
I won't make any promises. It's usually impossible to get more than 2 words into a sentence when she's unhappy.
I believe her Tonal tried to free herself from me with that last scouting trip.
And since she couldn't pull it off (find another place to live), and had to return, she's depressed today. Maybe feeling defeated even.
Possibly a little not-doing could help?
She's obsessed with mating relationships, and living with me doesn't fit with that. She even makes me walk 15 feet away from her at the Mall, when she's really angry, so that people don't think we're together.
She says I make her look ugly.
Perhaps I'm her spinster older brother now, and not her husband?
Maybe my WASP father died, and her Spanish Mom remarried an Olmec Indian.
And we don't get along well, because I have minor racist tendencies.
In fact, maybe I'm actually a Trump supporter! Those damn Mexicans! My own sister???
That's a not-doing.
I'll try to interest Cholita. Maybe she can rethink the situation with a little not-doing.
We could go to Mexican restaurants, and she could try to coax me to try Menudo.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
2 points2019-12-17 18:18
The best practice is to recapitulate until you can cleanly and efficiently give that disentangled life experience/story to the Eagle (Maker as I prefer to call it) and then let the chips fall where they may as far as your life force is concerned. A chance to have a chance, will put one far ahead of the masses who sadly have virtually no chances...
Unless living in a static and meaningless fantasy, gradually fading away from collective memory is your ideal afterlife. For some it may very well, unimaginatively, be so.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
1 points2019-12-16 19:58
Laying on that couch in heaven, I had the absolute certainty that no one had left. We were all still there, dreaming our life in the flesh. It was a test of sorts.
I thought it was an interesting story, for one because this guy found another toltec warrior party and became a part of it for a while. Not too often you hear about that.
But also, he tried a lot of different religions and esoteric practices and eventually was compelled towards christianity. Albeit, he's not really a typical christian. Which I thought was odd.
It almost seems if christianity has it's own lineage or something and the spirit compelled him towards that.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
1 points2019-12-14 01:04
I can't prove this, and it's little more than a story I tell myself about his "lost years," but I think Yeshua ben Yosef (Jesus) was the key vanguard in such a lineage of old world practitioners, the one who brought it into the modern epoch...like the post-conquistadore new world sorcerers who reformed their own lineage(s) in response to societal upheavals.
And we must remember that the need to reform is never-ending.
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u/danl999
3 points2019-12-18 17:46
Christian mystics have been involved with remote viewing for a while in this country.
If you actually read the bible, it's filled with people who gained specific magical abilities. You'll almost overlook them, because in that context they mostly seem like temporary gifts and not anything you could learn to do on your own.
But it's not always so.
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u/danl999
3 points2019-12-19 21:43
You do know that Joseph of Arimathea was possibly a tin merchant?
And the Romans were mining lead and tin all over the place.
Even more interesting, you find Celtic gold coins all over in the Greek world.
(Celt = irelandish clans).
And roman coins are still found all over Europe. The roman stormtroopers buried their bags of loot, until the battle was over and they could take advantage of the local entertainment. Their daily pay was about the amount of silver in an old USA real silver quarter.
I've collected a few coins from that era. Celt, roman, and even magical charms from that era.
I was looking for intent.
Cholita didn't want any of the magical charms. Being a witch, that says something about her current state.
Especially interesting is Queen Boudica, almost surely a sorceress. She's on some of the coins you might have found, just 40 years after Jesus.
The traditions of Glastonbury say he went to England and Ireland, traveling with Joseph.
Or something like that.
It's been 23 years since Carlos told us to study the bible.
Everyone except Buddhists:
Don't be afraid of religion. No need. Take a pick. Face it without fear.
It has nothing to do with sorcery.
Carlos had a different approach. He made fun of religion.
But stormtroopers don't criticize the local Inns.
They all have women and drink. Enjoy!
Buddhists: Stick with your own temples. There's a LOT more stormtrooper action going on there.
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u/Gnos_Yidari
1 points2019-12-18 04:20
Good video! Nice to see someone talking openly about their personal experiences, using the terms and language of Nagualism, without cynical bias.
39 Comments
Looks to be part of a long storytelling series:
"Now, before you go thinking that all these videos are all about his NDE – no. What we’re really experiencing through his excellent story-telling skills is his life story. And let me tell you, it’s all very riveting! I don’t want to give away too much with this introduction because he tells it the best. But just briefly, Nathan says he has been psychic to a degree since childhood. He tells us of his adventures throughout his life and leading up to his NDE.
Nathan’s has a heart condition (which we call a “dysrhythmia”) where his heart beat is very irregular, and it’s irregular to the point where it stops at times. He had dizziness and fainting spells from it and it took a couple of years before he was finally diagnosed and had a pacemaker implanted. The pacemaker will now “pace” his heart for him if it stops for a set length of time. But just before that is when his heart stopped for long enough for him to leave his body and experience heaven."
https://www.youtube.com/user/truthmefree
https://www.facebook.com/truthmefree
Here's what I know about heaven.
It's actually not all that difficult to visit heaven. If you read Esoterica (a European book catalog category for literature about weird stuff), you run into accounts of mystics visiting heaven or hell quite often.
I've been there 4 times, and in one I got a sort of "proof" out of it. Not all that convincing, but enough to make me wonder where I really visited.
Taoists seem to be a little obsessed with it. Possibly because it sells stuff, the same way the old testament complains often about people selling false idols. Temples in Asia sell paintings and objects with the portraits of the characters from the Taoist hierarchy of heaven. Many ancestor worship setups (they have them in homes and businesses) portray Taoist figures.
When people speak about these fetishes, they often have reverence in their tone of voice.
Don't be fooled. They got that from the place they purchased it. It's no more significant than someone telling you how tasty a particular street vendors stinky tofu is.
They're as clueless about it all as you are.
Taoists have given the impression they can visit any time they like, and they've mapped out a complex scheme for how it's arranged. It's been a long time since a Chinese person chatted with me about it, but I believe there are even fights between characters in heaven.
But in fact, if you practice meditation or contemplative prayer, and have a crappy life like everyone else, it's almost inevitable that you'll get a look at heaven.
The meditation or prayer helps the assemblage point get loose, and if you practice a lot of it your second attention comes out. You have mini-visions, weird sensations, a sense of being, "One" with everything. That kind of stuff.
You're just ripe for assembling another world.
Add on to that even a hint of praying in your own native religion, and you've selected the intent of a visit to heaven.
An even more fortuitous situation, for visits to heaven, is to be deathly ill. The Jewish portion of the bible even implies that's the only way you can visit, if you are dying.
But you just have to be ill enough to push your assemblage point. A good case of food poisoning will do the trick.
Now put aside whether the worlds you assemble are real, or just phantom realities.
Is that really Heaven?
It doesn't matter because the experience is so real, you have no doubts you were just there.
The main problem if you ask me is, everyone's heaven seems to conform mostly to what they were told about it.
It's someone else's intent. Or a whole lot of other people.
What to do about visiting heaven?
Nothing. Leave it alone.
Have a good time! But don't convert to any religion just yet.
A few visits to heaven are meaningless.
As Don Juan said, it's part of the Island of the Tonal.
We're trying to look outside all that.
What was heaven like for you?
First time, I can't recall anymore. I was almost dead when I saw it. I'd just returned from Mexico City, and had serious food poisoning.
Second time, I saw a giant garden with rolling hills of grass and flowers, a perfectly blue sky, and old Greek looking buildings nearby.
I was laying on a "couch" (see Kabalah writings), along with a double woman I was stalking.
The "couch" was a sort of rusty orange color.
Oddly, Cholita has been insisting I have to buy her a couch in that color, or she'll kill herself. When she first saw it at a store, all I could think about was, that's the same color as the one in heaven.
If she isn't dead yet, I'll get it for her when she returns from wherever she fled to.
Laying on that couch in heaven, I had the absolute certainty that no one had left. We were all still there, dreaming our life in the flesh. It was a test of sorts.
I was laying on my side, and the double woman nudged me to turn to my left. I saw a differernt woman emerge from one of the greek buildings. I knew she'd just come from meeting with some officials, or managers there.
She walked up to me very close, like she wanted me to stare into her face for a while.
I have face blindness. It takes me many times before I can recognize someone new.
Staring at her face woke me up.
The next day, I ran into that woman at a convenience store. She gave me a look like she knew me, smiled, and left. I watched her walk to her car outside the store. A couple of young men tossed her into the back area, like a piece of luggage. They were laughing.
Another time, I was still engaged in stalking that double woman (Jenna), but in Asia. I had a business deal going on, and part of my plan involved worrying the Singapore rep about my bad habits.
So while the traditional over-drinking ritual would be 6 shots of whiskey (an estimate), I drank 10 in the course of 20 minutes.
I pretty much poisoned myself with alcohol, but it accomplished what I wanted.
The next day I was horribly hung over, so I sat up in the hotel lobby, meditating. I found myself in the waiting room for heaven.
It was ornamented everywhere, with carvings and gold decorations. I was sitting on red velvet cushions.
The Singapore rep woke up and came to the hotel lobby to find me sitting there. He asked me what I was doing, so I told him the truth. I'm in the waiting room of heaven.
Being a Daoist, he didn't find that odd. He just asked me to describe it.
Edited
I feel like the biggest issue with "visiting" places like that is that you can never separate the tonal, it will describe everything for you. You can't experience anything in its pure form, don't you think?
You can get pretty close to seeing pure form, but it takes a boatload of work and a strong intent to scrub the residue of the tonal and achieve deep, deep silence. Even then, what you see will likely still have a smidge of it.
Yes, absolutely.
Carol Tiggs even explained it in a lecture, saying when Carlos and her visited another world, on a consistent basis, they weren't really seeing it the way the inhabitants did.
As for heaven, the accounts I've read of people visiting always conform to their birth religion.
So why you can visit heaven is still up in the air. Does it really exist, and sorcerers seek to go "outside the gate", which is the ultimate punishment in the bible?
To be scorned by God, and live away from his light. Could that be the outcome of sorcery.
Or is God merely an element of the Tonal, and on death you may or may not perceive that you went there. But in fact, your awareness was consumed.
That's why I like to stay out of the religion business. It's impossible to know what's really going on, at our level.
Maybe later...
It's the most frustrating thing and as a human, of course I want to know what's going to happen when I die. I used to read a lot about NDE-s and different channeled material and there's so much talk about reincarnation but most stories sound...silly, like actual children stories. I assume it's because their islands of the tonal are overflowing.
Then a while back, I read an interview with Carlos where he said that reincarnation definitely isn't a thing. Which doesn't bother me since I'm not interested in coming back here anyway.
But our awareness being consumed, in the form of our personality and life experience, is very likely. Is it possible though that the sorcerers couldn't see beyond that point and our essence is preserved and forced into a cycle of rebirths? At the end of a lifetime, more food for the Eagle, right?
I'm not concerned about anything from the religious point of view, including god.
I don't have any answers on those topics.
And for my goals, it's best to keep out of the religion business, and try to make it more like technology.
Just something you can learn to do.
And you should only focus on the next thing you can learn.
I have a student who's learned to be silent, and finds himself alone in the universe. He's worried that's a permanent condition.
That's probably why don Juan's river of shit analogy has most going back into the river, even after a sorcerer washes them off and shows them what's outside the river.
He asked me if I felt that.
Sure, but also bliss and awe. And it’s not good to focus on things like that.
Just focus on whether Cholita can learn to move dim sum plates on demand!
I don't think I'll ever learn sorcery. I already have too many questions and it seems like I'll never get any answers. It's a lot of work only to end up with even more unanswered questions.
It is straying off the beaten path. And while it's empty out there, and hard to figure out what's up, it also makes our cozy original state of mind look weak and dysfunctional.
Possibly there's an explanation for why Cleargreen's evolved to be much tamer than Carlos ever was. It's a safer way to incorporate sorcery, without feeling the chill of being outside the river of shit.
No, it is weak and dysfunctional. And I guess the hardest thing is when you can't go back to that but can't proceed with sorcery either. Where the hell do you go?
I guess that's where the "impeccable warrior" thing is a little helpful.
Just always do your best at whatever you're doing.
That'll strengthen the Tonal.
Contrast that with Cholita, who's Tonal is nearly gone.
Everything she had is lost. Job, husband, home, personal belongings.
She became angry from the paranoid schizophrenia, and systematically destroyed everything around her.
She didn't do her best. She did her worst. And on purpose, even if she isn't fully aware of it.
I have 3 repair jobs she asked me to do on our home, but she's stopped me at the last moment.
If I let her supervise one, so she won't be paranoid about it, she picks the worst thing you can do and does it.
Like opening all the packaging and throwing away the instructions.
Or trying to skip steps in the process, because she's impatient.
Or finding the worst and most hurtful things to say to people around her.
Everyone has a little Cholita in them.
Reduce that part and the rest should get stronger.
But isn't that the opposite of what you want to achieve? Not the impeccable thing, but the strong tonal. I always had the idea that it should be reduced to the bare minimum and abandoned in a way if you want to be truly dedicated. Or is that only if the spirit chooses you? I feel like everything their party was doing in the outside world was stalking.
I thought you'd decided not to pursue sorcery. So I was telling you how to just "hang out", without committing.
That's what Cholita and I did for decades. But we kept practicing anyway, a little.
Cholita of course, is obsessed with sex. So her idea of hanging out, was chasing men.
I'm autistic, so I started a few high tech enterprises.
But we always did "our best", even if Cholita's idea is the opposite of mine.
You want a strong Tonal so that you're life is ok, and then whatever your hobby is, that's fine.
If it's sorcery, it's going to muck up everything. It's just the way it is.
Probably it's why Carlos blew the group up. So everyone could make a choice.
I'm hoping to accumulate enough knowledge, by openly helping people, to tell when someone's not going to take well to sorcery.
In that case, I'd send them to Buddhism. If they still wanted some magic in their life.
Oh, I understand now. I suppose that's what I've been doing. But I'm still interested and want to learn about it, even if I don't practice.
It's possible that you could learn simply by intending it. Along the way you'd have to watch for that cubic centimeter of chance, but I believe it could be done that way.
You really can't tell where things come from in the long run.
Cholita was sneaking around the house last night, having returned from wherever she disappeared to.
Her dreaming double brought me a gift. She stood to the left of my bed, around 2AM. Of course, when you see something like that, you wonder if it's real.
Cholita isn't sane enough to ask about it. So I'll just assume, since I hadn't seen her dreaming during the time she was gone, and she just returned and there it is, that's her.
It was her current age, not the age I usually see her wearing, when she's in her dreaming body.
It was so stable, I looked to the left and right of it, to make sure it was directional. It certainly was.
Directional means, it's where it is, not where you look.
If any of you remembers that, and tries to make use of it while practicing, don't be too black and white about it.
It can be sort of in the middle. Directional in the range you check, but if you wanted you could swipe or scoop it to another location in the room (mostly).
Looking to the left of her and to the right, I noticed a fold of light down the middle.
I realized, I was producing it. It was as if my gaze, in order to determine directionality, had to be a long line. Not a point.
Usually when I gaze in dreaming, I'm staring at a point only. I can even burn a hole in the darkness and pull things from it, using that gaze.
This gaze was an entire line, around the height of the room.
I could burn it across the room, to solidify dreaming images floating around. They became frozen to wherever they were at the time, and intensified at least 3 times brighter.
It was as if a line pinned them down more than a point could, a point being somewhat disruptive since it singles out details, leaving the rest dim.
A line singles out a line of details, which keeps them more stable.
Now if only I can figure out if Cholita picked that up somewhere. But chances are, I'll never know where she went.
The strangest thing might be, Cholita is a "scout". Scouts go out and find valuable things, and come back and tell someone.
She did.
Edit: A techy comment.
I pionered in the area of digital photography. Over the years I've seen light sensors, line sensors, and area sensors.
Everyone here over 50 might have seen all 3 come along. Light sensors were used to detect beams of light. For instance, if you walk into a store, they could make a bell ring because you broke the beam of light. For an instant, you were pinned down.
The line sensors were in flat bed scanners in the beginning, for making digital images from film. The photo had to be "scanned" by moving the sensor across the page. At each point, it made a line of light and converted it into digital images. The reality of that line was pinned down for an instant.
I guess gazing works the same way. Beginning gazing is a small area in the middle. The way you're used to using your eyes.
The next logical step is a line sensor.
I forgot an important detail. Cholita was commenting on what I was doing with the line scan. But there weren't any words to hear.
I scanned back and forth for a long time, until Cholita pointed out, the left side was more profitable than the right side of the room. There was more to be found on that half.
She'd discovered 2 very bright vertical bars, part of a doorway. She wanted me to light that up only, and stop wasting time on the other half of the room.
I began to worry about her. She seemed to be getting lost on the left half of the dreaming images, which although they were mostly abstract, could in fact trap someone's awareness.
I lay down and went to sleep. It was too far to go.
Is she the only woman you know who's practicing?
I'm afraid so.
If you don't count Kylie and the Witches. And I have no idea what's going on with Aerin.
I guess it's possible that the whole "impeccable warrior" thing ultimately works, and some Cleargreen women are in a high state of sorcery.
As they tend to publicly portray, I might add.
But if they are, why did they let Carlos' reputation on the web go to shit? Why let people write things saying Carlos was a perverted narcissist, without pointing out that it all works exactly as he said?
No one cares if a real sorcerer is a perverted narcissist. The Nagual Julian is a favorite among some readers.
But someone who would make up such a thing, is open to any criticism you care to give him.
Why isn't Cleargreen fighting back?
If someone told me Carlos was a fraud, I'd ask where that door to infinity I saw last night actually leads, and if Cholita and I could both have crossed over.
I was staring at it for a long time last night, deciding if it was a good idea for Cholita to go through. She couldn't manage without my mass.
Cleargreen should be posting their experiences to help out Carlos.
We should be hearing, "Those cleargreen people are nuts!!! Have you read what they're claiming?"
Instead, we read who ended up in Carlos' bed, and how.
It's like believing they've secretly mastered kungfu, but are unwilling to protect someone being bullied nearby.
I hope I'm wrong, and tonight when I enter a dream world, they're waiting to beat me up.
Cholita would love to help.
Wouldn't it be self-important to try to defend a dead man's reputation on the internet? No one could succeed in that. People will always think what suits them. It's easier to believe Carlos was a pervert who used "sorcery" to get all the women. That's what everyone would do. It's also easier to believe there's no such thing as sorcery and to enjoy their pathetic mundane lives in which they talk shit about people they never knew. I see why you'd think it's important to defend Carlos, but even if his reputation was restored, do you think anyone would pay attention and become interested in sorcery? Doubt it. Every person who felt he wasn't a fraud and read his books, did so despite the articles. So in reality, there's nothing do defend. His work is serving its purpose. At least in my opinion.
I'm not worried about losing self-importance. I'm a stormtrooper.
We just use it wisely. We don't get rid of it.
But yes, your idea is magnificent! I never thought of it. Just agree, yep. He was a big pervert. But what a sorcerer!
Might work.
As far as your idea there's nothing that needs to be done, and the serious people will take him seriously?
I have bad news for you. Cholita and I are probably all that's left of private classes.
Being serious and believing against all odds wasn't enough.
My sneaking suspicion is that the ones who have and are still serious practitioners simply don't broadcast the fact. They're content to let the new people much around with doubt and the counter-intent of others in person and on the net, because that's what they themselves did (minus the internet!)...and it's worked out for them. A necessary and excruciating developing process.
If you're walking miles away from that "river of shit," and have zero desire to walk back over and get your hands dirty, ignoring the plight of the river dwellers may be the default outlook. Only help those who directly cross your path and whatnot.
And I think Carlos probably also knew that private classes were going to end up as an almost total failure, because of the reason most were there...enamored hero worship.
The 20 million plus readers around the globe, those largely silent masses doing their own thing with the teachings, are the unsung success story.
You might be right.
The further I get, the more I think, why should I care about what else is going on?
Fortunately, I'm stuck with Cholita. Can't go drifting off too far.
And we here are thankful for that!
Those gifts he embedded in private class students may manifest in unexpected ways further down the line. Possibly much further...
Carlos was strategizing for the long haul.
Me too. Cholita's a blast! And she hasn't hit me in several days.
I had another thought about the missing apprentices. This one is a little sad.
I directly contacted one of them, who informed me he was lucky to escape without killing himself, when Carlos died.
I'm autistic. That kind of "feely" stuff doesn't get through to me. I was thinking, "So what. You were an asshole. Now you're not!"
But no, he didn't return.
I tried with another, who freaked out.
She began to post endless delusional political nonsense, retweeting really ignorant but angry stuff.
It was like she had a mini-breakdown just by me reminding her there's unfinished business.
Carlos blew it up too well. That's the other explanation.
Trying to get people to listen and believe is a huge waste of energy.
And I agree with you, there are many out there minding their business.
That good. When you've run out of unanswered questions, and believe you "know everything," you'll then have two feet in the grave as far as I'm concerned.
And I have news for you, the fact that you're reading and posting here means you are in fact "learning sorcery."
Don Juan Matus:
"We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it."
I forgot about that quote, thank you for reminding me. I take things literally, like these books. Some things I never would've realized are metaphors or didn't happen exactly that way as written. That's not really helpful because it makes me feel like I'm not learning and making any progress. But then I look at the person I was a few years ago and it's like "what happened?"
To continue the quote string:
"You must un-learn what you have learned."
Yoda
Or as Castaneda said "not-doing what you know how to do," or doing something in as radically different way as is possible and practical.
Not-doing has been on my mind lately actually.
You could learn sorcery entirely though not-doing!
I sure wouldn't want to do that.
It would be even more work.
Unless, you have the circumstances to make it natural. Or unless you're very clever.
I might try that with Cholita, if she's talking today!
I won't make any promises. It's usually impossible to get more than 2 words into a sentence when she's unhappy.
I believe her Tonal tried to free herself from me with that last scouting trip.
And since she couldn't pull it off (find another place to live), and had to return, she's depressed today. Maybe feeling defeated even.
Possibly a little not-doing could help?
She's obsessed with mating relationships, and living with me doesn't fit with that. She even makes me walk 15 feet away from her at the Mall, when she's really angry, so that people don't think we're together.
She says I make her look ugly.
Perhaps I'm her spinster older brother now, and not her husband?
Maybe my WASP father died, and her Spanish Mom remarried an Olmec Indian.
And we don't get along well, because I have minor racist tendencies.
In fact, maybe I'm actually a Trump supporter! Those damn Mexicans! My own sister???
That's a not-doing.
I'll try to interest Cholita. Maybe she can rethink the situation with a little not-doing.
We could go to Mexican restaurants, and she could try to coax me to try Menudo.
The best practice is to recapitulate until you can cleanly and efficiently give that disentangled life experience/story to the Eagle (Maker as I prefer to call it) and then let the chips fall where they may as far as your life force is concerned. A chance to have a chance, will put one far ahead of the masses who sadly have virtually no chances...
Unless living in a static and meaningless fantasy, gradually fading away from collective memory is your ideal afterlife. For some it may very well, unimaginatively, be so.
For the newbies, to reinforce and hammer-home:
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/dwwgc8/it_is_the_double_who_dreams_the_self/
I thought it was an interesting story, for one because this guy found another toltec warrior party and became a part of it for a while. Not too often you hear about that.
But also, he tried a lot of different religions and esoteric practices and eventually was compelled towards christianity. Albeit, he's not really a typical christian. Which I thought was odd.
It almost seems if christianity has it's own lineage or something and the spirit compelled him towards that.
I can't prove this, and it's little more than a story I tell myself about his "lost years," but I think Yeshua ben Yosef (Jesus) was the key vanguard in such a lineage of old world practitioners, the one who brought it into the modern epoch...like the post-conquistadore new world sorcerers who reformed their own lineage(s) in response to societal upheavals.
And we must remember that the need to reform is never-ending.
Christian mystics have been involved with remote viewing for a while in this country.
If you actually read the bible, it's filled with people who gained specific magical abilities. You'll almost overlook them, because in that context they mostly seem like temporary gifts and not anything you could learn to do on your own.
But it's not always so.
You do know that Joseph of Arimathea was possibly a tin merchant?
And the Romans were mining lead and tin all over the place.
Even more interesting, you find Celtic gold coins all over in the Greek world.
(Celt = irelandish clans).
And roman coins are still found all over Europe. The roman stormtroopers buried their bags of loot, until the battle was over and they could take advantage of the local entertainment. Their daily pay was about the amount of silver in an old USA real silver quarter.
I've collected a few coins from that era. Celt, roman, and even magical charms from that era.
I was looking for intent.
Cholita didn't want any of the magical charms. Being a witch, that says something about her current state.
Especially interesting is Queen Boudica, almost surely a sorceress. She's on some of the coins you might have found, just 40 years after Jesus.
The traditions of Glastonbury say he went to England and Ireland, traveling with Joseph.
Or something like that.
It's been 23 years since Carlos told us to study the bible.
Everyone except Buddhists:
Don't be afraid of religion. No need. Take a pick. Face it without fear.
It has nothing to do with sorcery.
Carlos had a different approach. He made fun of religion.
But stormtroopers don't criticize the local Inns.
They all have women and drink. Enjoy!
Buddhists: Stick with your own temples. There's a LOT more stormtrooper action going on there.
Good video! Nice to see someone talking openly about their personal experiences, using the terms and language of Nagualism, without cynical bias.