Hello,
With this post I would like to share with you a very unusual book/study - a study on nagualism, which seems to be the core and origin of Carlos Castaneda's teachings. This book doesn't have many techniques. As u/danl999 has told recently, why do we need more of those or chase super secret workshops? All is here already, for maybe tens of years, just do the work.
But this post is about the independent verification of roots of our knowledge. This always concerned me like - is it really toltec? Is it really Mexican? Is the intent coming from the ancient lineage existing thousands of years? Or Carlos just compiled different sources and supercharged it with his own, new intent? This could be a partial answer to this very important question.
The book is not adventure or novel to read, but it has some clues which could tell us "yes, it IS coming from there"! And this is precious, I would say.
Some quotes:
"The root na, to know, is the primitive monosyllabic stem to which we trace all of them. Nahual means knowledge, especially mystic knowledge, the Gnosis, the knowledge of the hidden and secret things of nature; easily enough confounded in uncultivated minds with sorcery and magic.
It is true that de la Serna derives the Mexican naualli, a sorcerer, from the verb nahualtia, to mask or disguise oneself, “because a naualli is one who masks or disguises himself under the form of some lower animal, which is his nagual;”58-† but it is altogether likely that nahualtia derived its meaning from the custom of the medicine men to wear masks during their ceremonies.
Therefore, if the term nagual, and many of its associates and derivatives, were at first borrowed from the Zapotec language, a necessary corrollary of this conclusion is, that along with these terms came most of the superstitions, rites and beliefs to which they allude; which thus became grafted on the general tendency to such superstitions existing everywhere and at all times in the human mind.
As I have said, nowhere in the records of purely Mexican, that is, Aztecan, Nagualism do we find the word nagual employed in the sense given in the passage quoted from Herrera, that is as a personal guardian spirit or tutelary genius. These tribes had, indeed, a belief in some such protecting power, and held that it was connected with the day on which each person is born. They called it the tonalli of a person, a word translated to mean that which is peculiar to him, which makes his individuality, his self. The radical from which it is derived is tona, to warm, or to be warm, from which are also derived tonatiuh, the sun.Tonalli, which in composition loses its last syllable, is likewise the word for heat, summer, soul, spirit and day, and also for the share or portion which belongs to one. Thus, to-tonal is spirit or soul in general; no-tonal, my spirit; no-tonal in ipan no-tlacat, “the sign under which I was born,” i. e., the astrological day-sign. From this came the verb tonalpoa, to count or estimate the signs, that is, to cast the horoscope of a person; and tonalpouhque, the diviners whose business it was to practice this art.
The nahual is generally an old Indian with red eyes, who knows how to turn himself into a dog, woolly, black and ugly. The female witch can convert herself into a ball of fire; she has the power of flight, and at night will enter the windows and suck the blood of little children. These sorcerers will make little images of rags or of clay, then stick into them the thorn of the maguey and place them in some secret place; you can[11] be sure that the person against whom the conjuration is practiced will feel pain in the part where the thorn is inserted. There still exist among them the medicine-men, who treat the sick by means of strange contortions, call upon the spirits, pronounce magical incantations, blow upon the part where the pain is, and draw forth from the patient thorns, worms, or pieces of stone. They know how to prepare drinks which will bring on sickness, and if the patients are cured by others the convalescents are particular to throw something of their own away, as a lock of hair, or a part of their clothing. Those who possess the evil eye can, by merely looking at children, deprive them of beauty and health, and even cause their death.
To transform themselves into a globe or ball of fire was, as we have seen (antè, p. 21), a power claimed by expert nagualists, and to handle it with impunity, or to blow it from the mouth, was one of their commonest exhibitions. Nothing so much proved their superiority as thus to master this potent element."
41 Comments
> Zapotec language
Cholita gave me a lecture on this, but I didn't understand it.
> They called it the tonalli of a person, a word translated to mean that which is peculiar to him, which makes his individuality, his self. The radical from which it is derived is tona, to warm, or to be warm,
And don Juan used the analogy where our Tonal was actually a river of filth, where everyone pisses and poops on each other, all day long. Sorcerers wait on the shore to pull them out and wash them out. But they go back in, because it's warmer in there.
They really do go back in. I've been fighting that for 22 years.
Carlos too. 100 apprentices. All went back to the river of filth.
> The nahual is generally an old Indian with red eyes, who knows how to turn himself into a dog, woolly, black and ugly
Very timely to post this right after the bat workshop.
I apologize to Reni and Nyei. It seems, that is appropriate.
Just wish they'd actually turn into bats instead of just being "batty".
> The female witch can convert herself into a ball of fire; she has the power of flight, and at night will enter the windows and suck the blood of little children.
Don't anyone tell Cholita... She's always accusing me of drinking children's blood. And she likes to accuse me of doing what she does. So she can say I started it first.
Yes, but also he described it like all what is the Known. And as a personal protector which becomes a dictator later. Seems very similar in their description!
Actually, it had triggered my memory :-)
We won't! But let's leave the blood thing to cultural and mythological limitations of those guys.. For me, the flying and even more the ball of fire thing seems to be the most intriguing.
Isn't it amazing that we can see here a direct link to Carlos' knowledge?
Of course, skeptics can say it is 1894, so Carlos copied the ideas. But who cares of skeptics.
Ohhh shots fired....
Cholita shot first, the night before I wrote that.
I'd spent hours trying to get her some paper towels.
When I finally brought 2 rolls home, given to me by one of my employees because he felt sorry for me, she hurled them at my head.
As for the baby blood thing, it's a really odd coincidence that guy wrote that in the 1800s.
Driving along in the car with Cholita, if have to be very careful what I do with my hands. If I wipe my face because it's sweaty (a no-no these COVID-19 days), Cholita looks over, wipes saliva from the side of her mouth, and says, "Are you wiping the blood of babies from your mouth? It's dripping everywhere!"
I would say that it was the fault of common language which can easily be mistaken for plagiarism.
What I mean more specifically is that Don Juan belonged to a lineage which shared an intent and purpose. Those were shared by CC to us through his books and they used a common language to ensure this message was passed along, both by the lineage through to Don Juan and CC to us.
The language was not invented by either Don Juan or CC nor was their interpretation of the words passed down to them as the words themselves obviously originated elsewhere as per evident in this book.
It is quite possible the origins of these words are much older than the works of CC and considering the definitions are similar only reinforces the root nature of the terms, terms CC would have little choice to use describing the same phenomenon.
Well exactly! This was my point with this post and link to the book.
And lets not forget, perhaps the entire sorcery thing is intended.
Meaning, it's a better myth than the one we were born into, but all of them are just myths in the long run. This one we normally live in only seems real because there's billions of people's intent behind it.
Carlos made many efforts to tie the members of his group into the sorcerer's myth, with name changes and back stories.
At the time, I thought it was rather stupid to take on a new name, and the whole Chacmool thing seemed like high school theater class antics.
But once you can get silent, you can follow stray intent picked up right from the air. It hangs out there, like thousands of local but faint radio stations.
And you can even intend new things, and have them come back many times. Those have only your own intent behind them, and still they can persist.
Cholita's witchcraft is also all about intent. She uses spells most of the time, which I suppose hook you to the intent of the spell designer. But they also are connected to the normal world, the same way Carlos connected the people in his group to the old sorcerers.
Lately Cholita’s been searching Carlos’ books for a cure for herself. She keeps one in the bathroom, open with spine up. She protects it with a red mirror she's used several times in spells. The last time I saw it, the glass was cracked in half.
Oddly, it was no longer cracked. She must have had more than one.
Seeing that book there each day is too tempting, so I carefully disturb her arrangement each morning, to see if she’s read more pages.
As it turns out, she reads it everyday. And she underlines and highlights key points.
Today it was a passage about the Nagual coming out, and how impossible it was to describe it.
But she’d also underlined passages about how the Nagual can be deadly. An encounter can result in your death. She underlined that particularly hard. She must have been reading that the day before.
And last night, as part of a continuing spell, Cholita staged herself to be innocently sitting around in the living room, in very expensive clothes. Her hair was all puffed up.
She caused a fuse to blow, so I’d have to come out and see her.
Usually I hide, since she tried to murder me a week or two ago.
I'd already explained to her that we needed to move her powerful electric heater to the same outlet as the air conditioner, because none of the other outlets have enough amps. The fuse blows as it gets colder outside, and more heat is needed.
That outlet was in fact closer to where she liked to sit, so it all made sense.
Once she realized it could blow the fuse if left on the wrong outlet, she started using it to manipulate me.
She'd cause the fuse to blow, whenever she wanted me to see something she'd staged.
The first time it blew last night, I bought into the idea that maybe she was just too forgetful. And blowing the fuse was an accident.
She was sitting at a table playing with a huge jigsaw puzzle. Her fingernails were painted light blue, and she had on pretty black bead and silver bracelets with bare forearms, a very simple tattoo forming one of the delicate bracelets. She pushed the colored pieces of the puzzle around on the table. She'd selected the ones with the best match to her dark hands and light fingernails. She had a pile of them on a flat surface, so she could slide them around with her tiny fingers. Once in a while her fingernails would nudge one, instead of pushing it.
It didn't look like she was about to kill me, so I wondered if maybe she wanted to be friendly. All I've wanted since Cholita became homeless, and I had to protect her, was for her to sit close to me and be happy.
I fixed the fuse by going outside, and walked back in and over to the table to watch her pretty hands moving the pieces of the puzzle around in little circles. I tested how close she'd let me get before lurching at me. As it turned out, surprisingly close.
I noticed she never found a puzzle piece she could match into what she had so far. She was just showing off her hands and hair. She never looked up so I could see her face.
I returned to my room, only to find she blew the fuse 2 hours later.
I was in the middle of trying to enter into my dreaming body, directly from waking. I wanted to return to the living room, but in my dreaming double.
There she was again, sitting at the same table.
I went outside to fix the fuse. I returned and watched her for a while, noticing more clearly that her Chacmool hair was history. She'd decided to grow it back.
At this point, it was merely floppy.
I watched her much longer than I usually dared. You can get injured if you annoy her.
She was looking down the entire time she was manipulating colored puzzle pieces.
She said, "I'm not going to your bedroom."
I was happy to hear that. Not because she wasn't, but because she was even thinking about it.
I may be celibate, but I still like to get offers. In fact, I suspect it's always downhill from there.
From the first offer.
That's the real prize.
She finally looked up into my eyes and said, “Go to your room now.”
It was late enough at that point, that I needed to sleep or I’d be tired the next day.
Shortly after I fell asleep, I found myself in the living room again.
Cholita was handing me little slices of reality. She had a stack of 4 of them in her hand, and was sorting through them. We were both sitting on chairs, facing each other.
Some of the slices of reality were as thick as a silver dollar.
All were about the size of the smaller collectable Japanese game cards.
She showed me that the thickest had the most activity in it. I could see buildings, cars, and skyscrapers. It was a busy city.
Cholita loves the pretty areas of Los Angeles. It might have been near Westwood except that the color of the light in that scene was unnaturally yellow.
The last time I saw a world of that color, it was contained inside a bundle of emanations, amidst the infinity of the emanations at large.
I entered it by turning my head to gaze into it.
Cholita's playing cards were like miniature bundles of emanations. You could enter them simply by glancing inside.
She saw that I wasn’t interested in that one.
I was thinking it was "too thick".
She sorted through the rest until she saw one that interested me.
It was the thinnest, but it contained very colorful images. It was so thin that it was transparent, and the colorful things on it seemed to glow and float in the air by themselves.
It wasn't vast like the thick city playing card, where you could get lost with so much to do.
This one was happy, like a garden of colorful flowers.
She flipped it back and forth in her hand, so I could see the activity from both sides.
Then she handed it to me.
I suddenly found myself walking fast through a gigantic hotel common area, with beautiful rooms lining it on all sides, towering above several stories. The landscaping was magnificent.
It was much like an expensive resort hotel in San Diego county, which had a walkway directly to the beach. Cholita had gotten me to let her stay there, to calm her nerves. As a reward, she let me take pictures of her having fun.
Cholita loves beautiful hotels, ever since her father took her with him on business as a child, to some of the best hotels in Mexico. Paid for by the government.
I recognized my own room 3 floors above me and took to the endless stairs, such as you only find in dreaming. I got lost for a while, but I have no memory of it. Perhaps Cholita was playing hide and seek. The entire time I was lost there, I felt that Cholita was just around the corner.
I entered the room, closed the door, and looked around to figure out what was going on.
It wasn't an ordinary dream. It was something else. I couldn't recall seeing any other beings in that dream. I only felt the presence of Cholita, always hiding and out of reach.
I tried the faucet at the sink. The room had a separate area for putting on makeup, with a large mirror, very bright lights, and a full sink and granite counter. Cholita loves bright lights and a sink with mirror, for putting on her makeup.
The faucet worked. I'm not sure why I expected otherwise.
Glancing back at the door, I saw Cholita. She was sitting on the floor in an awkward position, as if she were intoxicated and had fallen over. She was leaning on her elbows with her hands pressed to the carpet. Her head was turned down, looking at the floor.
She was helpless.
And she was wearing a bikini.
Instead of my normal reaction, wanting to stare at her and see if I could sneak out my camera phone and get away with making a video, I just took it for granted.
I walked up to her and she said, "Let’s go for a swim in the ocean together."
In that world it was well past midnight and somehow I was certain that the ocean water was too cold for anything beyond wading out a few feet.
I began to explain, that was too dangerous at this time of night.
She turned her head to look into my eyes, smiled a sort of grim smile, like a cat about to eat a mouse, and I realized, if we went swimming we’d both die.
I considered whether it might not be worth it, to go for a swim with Cholita.
I didn't read it until the next morning, but the passage Cholita had underlined, where the Nagual can result in your death, included a final warning.
Sometimes in the Nagual, you won't mind dying.
Edited six times
How do we know we picked a right radio station (intent of don Juan's lineage)? Sound like we can come up with some random stuff.
Why do you worry about that when you can't receive any of the radio stations?
I think you're in don Juan's class of pimping for someone else. Carlos was accused of that too, so you're in good company.
Because nobody has an eternity to figure things out. And of course my best guess is that you are linking us to Carlos' lineage intent. About picking currently - I am not sure.
I don't get what you mean, honestly, but most likely it is again the manifestation of cultural and language barrier in our discussions.
If you are refering to your favourite book deal topic - sorry, but this is not the case. I am only interested in my own practice and maybe discuss something valuable here with you and other community members. I am not representing anyone else or willing to write some book or teach anyone - in fact, I would see it as a distraction from my own personal path which would bring no good to me. Maybe you see it in a different fashion, but anyone can have an opinion on anyone and anything. And everyone has their own limitations.
Stop accumulating facts. You can't learn sorcery by building a giant inventory.
It's nothing but hard work. And you don't have to worry you're wasting your time, because if you actually do it, following the advice I'm bringing from Carlos, it'll work.
Cultural barrier?
Did you notice the "close talking" italians are getting sicker than the rest?
I always dread to run into them. And the greeks.
They're right in your face, like they're about to kiss you, just to have a talk about the weather.
So yes, there are cultural differences. But not all of them can be explained away as being equal to a different way.
It's just so obvious. You're pimping for someone else, just as don Juan warned.
Why you don't see it, I don't know. But you will eventually.
Flier's mind maybe?
No person I've tried to help, who actually started putting in enough time, had any more questions.
Or concerns.
Once the nagual starts to come out, you get a kind of satisfaction that makes the fussiness and worry about other people, go away.
Not permanently. Don't get me wrong.
You have to fight everyday.
Thanks for your advice. I will try to stick to it. I am doing 1-2 hours practice, every evening but maybe I need to do more recapitulation to deal with my desire to accumulate more and more theoretical stuff.
And you have a need for validation.
Don't take it personally. You're actually doing a service to the community at large, bringing in a lot of new information.
But at some point you have to focus on a specific thing, until it works so well, you just have to give yourself a thumbs up.
If you get offended and go elsewhere, you could seriously damage what I'm trying to do in here.
I don't know that it can be avoided but what we need in here, is more people telling about doing impossible things.
That's going to piss off the fake naguals, selling their "secret" techniques, and they'll try to find a weakness.
There are also people like Robert. He's the source of the nastiest nonsense on Carlos, which filters to the top of the search results.
I'm guessing one of his early books was about himself. It's a kid who becomes interested in Castaneda, only to find out he was duped. Or something like that.
I assume he's so bitter he has to find a way to destroy Carlos, instead of realizing, he was a lazy bastard.
Otherwise I can't account for his behavior.
If we get discord in here, someone gets their feelings hurt and goes out to complain, the people out to destroy this knowledge will seize on it.
It's why I can't earn money, sex, or anything else while trying to help here.
I'd hate to see it blown, because that river of filth requires pooping on each other.
Let me add something else, while I'm rattling your cage (hoping for the best).
You miss the subtleties of most things. I'm not sure if it's language or culture, but you take things completely literally, when anyone else in here can see some things I say are analogies, or metaphorical.
And even if I explain something twice, you insist it was never explained and try to make me do it again.
I don't know if that's a lack of comprehension, or just not bothering to read posts.
Let's take the "book deal mind".
There doesn't have to be a book involved in that!
Either Wayne or one of the more advanced practicioners in here posted something cool about that a while back.
He was doing something amazing, and had the thought about how to explain it to someone else.
It went away.
That's UNIVERSAL. It's the "book deal mind". But there doesn't have to be a book.
Just an obsession with other people, and getting attention from them.
It's very bad to be obsessed with other people's opinion of you.
On all the points you mentioned I want to have a private chat with you, as don't like discussing my personal situation on the subreddit. Publicity can be beneficial, but it should have some reasonable limits.
So my suggestion is to chat on key importance points you mentioned and stop discussing it here for now.
What I can say for sure publicly is that I am not willing or going to bring any harm to you, your goals and intent. I have a deep respect for you and a wish to move in same direction,but not to help haters "clown" your sincere effort, which is a true treasure for all of us here.
Consider “Other people” as phantoms, NPC’s in a computer game. Would you care about what a simulated automaton thinks about anything? This is the basis of “controlled folly”, folly meaning making it look like you care about phantom’s goings-on. This would be called “irresponsible” to the phantoms, while being very thorough and responsible to events that have to do with achieving the freedom as defined by DJ/CC.
Take the man-in-cave-watching-shadows Plato’s story, it would mean ignoring the shadows, being completely irresponsible from the shadows and fellow viewer viewpoint. And going toward the cave exit.
Being ready to exit the Matrix
That came up in Genaro's story about spinning with the Ally. I seem to remember him calling everyone "Phantoms", when later on don Juan said, no. They were just normal people.
The matrix!!!!
I'm still suspicious of that movie. More faction H?
And how relevant and timely! We were talking about roots of our knowledge and Cleargreen, and here it is:
https://cleargreen.mykajabi.com/the-lineage-of-carlos-castaneda?cid=a4a21fac-5dc6-4d2a-93f6-478417ecbe94
For many years, Carol Tiggs and Renata Murez have been diligently crafting experiences to pass along those things taught to them by Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan Matus and the other shamans of ancient Mexico.
One of those delicious experiences were the tours; following the Trail of the Plumed Serpent. Each one of those deep dive immersions enveloped the participants into the energy of the lineage and helped them find their place within it.
One of the things that made these endeavors so energetic, was the rich context Reni and Carol were able to impart ... the oral history of their travels to these places with Carlos and Don Juan and the meaning of these places; the history of these people and the significance they played in the lineage.
As wonderful as these events were, there was only a limited number who could join in person. Our trip to OLMEC country was completely sold out, creating a waiting list of over 75 people who were not able to attend.
As it was passed onto Carol and Reni, they in turn want to pass it along to as many people as possible.
So, for over 3 years, Reni and Carol have been tirelessly recapitulating those experiences with Carlos and Don Juan, along with detailed historical research including many of the numerous books left to them from Carlos' personal library, to create an amazing 4 part video series called The Lineage of Carlos Castaneda.
In this 80 minute recapitulation, they take the history of the Trail of the Plumed Serpent and place it in harmonious context to provide the meaning that is relevant to understanding the roots of our lineage. You will learn the source of many of the current Tensegrity® principles, teachings and tools and why they were needed then as well as now.
Our initial intention was to offer this labor of love for a modest fee to cover the costs of production. However, now, when most people are finding themselves in uncertain times, what a better time to offer this as a gift to help you connect with the roots of a lineage and a set of tools that has navigated uncertainty for generations.
Edited: I looked a part of it. Looks pretty interesting! Maybe u/danl999 would be willing to look into it. It is like an excursion to Mexico and toltec culture. Maybe the first video they impressed me with
Cholita's father was pure blood Olmec.
I cannot.
Look at it, I mean.
But if someone comments on it, I'm fine with that.
I don't make the rules. I just follow them as best I can.
This rule is sort of like, don't beat the old dog.
If it tries to bite someone, it's ok to warn people.
And who knows what that old dog might end up doing.
It was Carlos' magical dog.
Of course, I'm another of his old dogs. Just from another litter.
So is Cholita. And for sure, she bites.
Can I ask, why?
Don't beat the old dog. That's why.
It still has some life in it, and might catch that wyley rabbit after all.
Of course, the old dog bit one of the other old dogs from its own litter.
So you can't turn your back on it.
The wild card is Carol, who's still making sure it's fed.
I've only got Cholita to feed me.
This might clear it up. Or not. It isn't perfect.
Ok, I've got it. But the video itself is mostly abouf the Toltec culture, artifacts from the museums and showing pictures of craddle of the lineage. Some quotes from the books. I thought you could comment if it is worth looking. But if not that not, this is perfectly fine as well.
You have your own reasons and I deeply respect that. And you.
No, I can't look at it. But Cholita can!
I'll send her the link.
Maybe I'll try another analogy.
It's like having sex with someone else's wife.
I can't get sucked into the glory of Reni, or even Carol.
They have to survive on their own glory, without me directly messing it up.
Now of course, I'm a grumpy snob. But it's ok for me to point out when they've gone astray.
Such as rehashing the same old thing, and adding dubious new stuff, so that Carlos' reputation is still shot to hell on the net.
Cleargreen should have created those 10 dreamers I mentioned, so their writings on the web would overwhelm the nay sayers.
I've found it painful in the last 15 years, everytime I run into what they're doing.
But they succeeded in creating Tensegrity teachers. So maybe that's what Carlos had in mind all along.
But they succeeded in creating Tensegrity teachers.
Yes i do agree they do create facilitators but how efficient it would turn out to be with time? teachers to do magical passes?! but as you've mentioned what is the profit of it if you can get silent and reach heightened awareness? What would be the outcome if most of the teachers are not capable of being silent themselves, unable reaching other worlds or dealing with inorganic beings properly or not capable to explain people that without letting go their ego they had no single tiny chance to overslip through the eagle claws.
I don't know.
But I get help from intent so often, I have to believe Carlos' intent will win in the long run.
Let me put it another way.
Cholita is a gift from heaven. Except that, she's such a miserable person, no one but me could put up with her more than a day.
Her dreaming double is wonderful. But her tonal is completely broken.
A male sorcerer can make use of that. Just put the two together, and the woman automatically lets the man use her energy, as long as she gets to go along.
I guess it works that way in the Tonal too. Just go to home depot and see the men walking around doing things, because the wife needs it to make the environment better.
so do you use Cholita in terms of your control folly as your petty tyrant?
I'm stuck with Cholita. If I toss her out, she dies.
That's all.
There's no plan here.
so you don't try to treat this situation as a warrior whose life is an endless challenge, and challenges cannot possibly be good or bad? I mean do you practice control folly and stalking in your life?
Nope. That's too cheesy for me.
I'm autistic. I don't even like to hear the coach shout, "2 more laps!"
I start to get suspicious. What sort of folly is he controlling in the locker room showers?
Let me ask a question.
I'm puzzled by the Eastern Bloc's tendency to obsess over Carlos' earlier books.
It's as if they never read the later books, and realized the first ones were just a bunch of motivational tricks to keep Carlos hanging around, while the actual teaching was done in heightened awareness.
I also see that here, in the American continents, with people who thought the books were all about drugs. They're still stuck trying to catch lizards so they can summon the Devil's weed ally.
What is your primary source of teaching?
I mean, people who claim to be teaching you.
Is it the facilitators?
Or maybe there's been some translating of information, and the translators had that point of view, so it gets passed on to anyone reading those translations.
Is it paid websites, where they actually have nothing new to sell, so they have to keep drilling in the early books?
With more and more insistence, so you feel like you're getting your money's worth?
Is it the Castaneda police, the "experts" who go in discussion groups, and nit-pick over their inventories?
Or did you not read the later books?
Some people liked the whole idea, but find the books rather tedious, so they only read a few.
Remember, this isn't my quirky point of view.
It was Carlos' point of view.
He told us to stop reading the books, meaning, stop nitpicking the early dialogue as if it's the path to knowledge.
Pretty much none of the early stuff survives the later books.
I'd like to figure out where this is coming from, to see if there's something that can be done about it, when new people come along.
We don't need any more "experts".
Remember, again.
Just so you know why I worry.
Carlos had 100 apprentices. He spent hundreds of hours with each.
Each had the early books memorized.
All pretended to be impeccable warriors.
All failed.
Edited
Me personally i do prefer late books of Castaneda, my favorite one is active side of infinity. It is true the most people with a superficial knowledge of Castaneda’s work usually stop at the first book about lizards and jimson weed , but even the first book, besides plants of power, has a ton of useful information. If a person goes further along the map drawn by Castaneda and intent of the Spirit, he goes on to other books and his knowledge evolves, as did the knowledge of Castaneda over time. I like all his books because they show how Carlos himself’s views on nagualism and the world around him changed, but as for the concept of a warrior who sees everything as a challenge and not as a blessing or a curse, this particular line runs through all the books to the very last as well as controlled folly and stalking. I personally reread his books from the first to the last and I noticed one feature, if you have enough energy you can read between the lines or understand those things that you could not understand with less amount of energy. Usually people start reading his books with very low amount of energy or consciousness and if they do not progress in practicing their understanding of Carlos work stucks in jimson weed and lezards:))
Good topic!
I just realized what Carlos' Wheel of Time book is for!
It's so disliked by the Castaneda population in general, that it wasn't even scanned into my searchable pdf.
And i couldn't find any quotes from it, on the top google results, nor anyone analyzing it. I'm sure those are there, but if I googled journey to Ixtlan, I'd get blasted with commentaries.
Let's face it, the book gets dissed.
One Castaneda "expert" thought it was sentimental. Just an old man trying to remember the key moments of his career.
WRONG!
It's a hook to intent. The intent of his line of sorcerers. You absorb that, and intent will help you out.
I've been trying to figure out how to do that myself. Hook someone who comes to me, to intent.
If you have intent on your side, you get magical results from time to time. Gifts.
If you break your link to intent, for instance by suing your sorcery classmates over money, you'll stagnate.
No gifts. It'll all be nothing but hard work.
You can make it on hard work, but likely you'll give up.
I agree with everything you said, but I'm still an enemy of the concept of a warrior. I hope to explain exactly why today.
Strange that it is so. This book is a real gift.
This seems even obvious. And most interestingly, only first eight books are included there. Maybe to pick the right intent? But this is just my guess.
I should mention, someday perhaps we can try that final boost using power plants such as Devil's weed.
La Gorda mentioned it. Didn't she even say the little smoking pipe was preserved?
Morongo. Someone there would do it.
But of course, if you're putting in a reasonable amount of time, you would never think of doing such a thing.
You aren't playing around, and so any aid is good.
You're navigating, and a power plant would be like a dozen Cholitas, dropped into your lap.
Too much turmoil.
But some day. If we get 10 dreamers.
As I am from the Eastern block myself, let me try to answer your question. I have a different opinion on this matter, although I don't see myself as some kind of expert and don't want to see. I am just a practitioner trying to follow Castaneda's footsteps on this path, and yours in dreaming and dreaming awake specifically.
So let's be more specific. First two books have really very little of practical info, mostly it is psychedelics and a bit of a warrior stuff.
But books 3 to 8 are a different kind of thing. Books 3 to 5 describe the work done in normal awareness. Not-doings, stopping the dialogue, cleaning out and polishing tonal's island and some stalking (hunter stuff, etc.). I don't see it as only motivational, they are describing the Map related to the first attention and outlining key importance of this part of work. If we take your analogy with radio, let's say so that our antenna is dirty with a layer of bird poop, was bent to incorrect shape by your life and other people. If you turn on it (with dreaming and silence), you can, of course catch some signals, but how clear and aligned those will be? Well, most likely it would randomly depend on how spoiled the antenna and hardware is. And the goal of this part of normal awareness work is to fix it. To polish, clean it and return to it's natural shape. Most interestingly, people fall into several categories here.
The first and most abundant are the guys you point to - those, who get it all wrong and romanticize the warrior's path concept. In many cases they are punching their chest with a thumb broadcasting to others like "look, I am an impeccable warrior!".
The second ones are similar, they are the guys who only read about all this and have dreams of dealing with tonal "Well, maybe some day!"
The third ones try to do something, but get stuck. Due to complexity of Carlos' message, the format of books, lack of time or something.
Then fourth type just think this is useless romantics and dreaming/silence is enough.
And a little fraction of people actually do the all-directional work working hard on they first attention and the second one (techniques like we are discussing here) as well.
Of course, we also have books 6 to 8, where we have a blend of instructions from both normal and heightened awareness. They are abundant with an information.
But.. What exactly happens later? Later books seem to hold a different mood and intent. It is really just there. I know that "The Active Side of Infinity" was heavily edited by Cleargreen people. It was collected by someone from chacmools when Castaneda was dying, like writing down his words. So, those books give a lot of great techniques, it is a fact, but.. they no longer give a feeling of don Juan's sobriety and new seers intent. They seem more "dark" on some way and describe a lot of stuff related to inorganics, although don Juan always warned Carlos to be careful with them and this topic. Let's not forget that Carlos himself admitted publicly his lineage is much more influenced by inorganics which remind us of the old seers who were after concrete sorcery instead of abstract one.
Maybe mostly myself, getting different information from different relevant sources. And looking what works for me and not.
There is such a problem, yes. Some Russian translations are a disaster, actually. They are very biased and influenced by translators. Better to read originals in English.
In my case, none of those. Maybe for others the answer will differ.
Read in Russian maybe 3 times all the books released, and 4 times in English original.
Yes. If we speak about first two related to drugs. But if we speak about 3 to 8, the matters are becoming more complicated.
As for what to do with it - it depends on what you want here. If the goal is to have people only being interested and practicing things from the last books, without accepting any additions or possible different approach/opinion - just categorize some people as useless experts and not welcome them here.
If the goal, on the other hand, is to help people learn sorcery and encourage open-minded discussion of this path, not excluding anything like techniques from the earlier books - we could potentially have a vast array of experiences which could benefit everyone in the long run. And let's not forget we are heavily emphasizing Zuleica's path (book 6).
Well, maybe the failure rate was related not books but to who they were and what their goals really were. If they were just obsessed with the books sticking to them as a holy Bible and not willing to work hard or they were the first "type" I described - it is unsurprising.
This part is cool, curing people by healing the tonal, coaxing the tonal back from where it has wandered, literally perhaps helping the person relocate the assemblage point to a place of strength and health and presumably heal themselves that way:
Thanks for the quote!
Thanks for the post! It's a great find. I have a friend who married a woman from a small town where Zapotec is still spoken near the city of Oaxaca, and he told me of a guy there who hangs around overnight outside houses where there's a newborn watching out for the brujas. It's still a thing!
Yes. It means the tradition is still alive. And most likely Carlos' lineage was not the only one. Don Juan even has told this himself.
anything that came from carlos is misleading except the books were he was used by th enagual don juan t wrote this teachong s to all of us... carlos w egotistical adn thought don juan was interested in him only to teach him as a nagaual but no don juan was only interested in carlos to write th ebooks thats all
tensegrity adn that shit is some loonies who dont get the books. we all dream so learn about that and go beyon dlicid dreming.. this is no tlucid dreaming this is becoming as aware as you are right now readign my message as aware you have to be in your dream
Well.. Could you elaborate which grounding does this statement has behind it? I wouldn't specifically agree. What I agree on is that Carlos Castaneda was a human being, like all of us, which means he had his own flaws and strengths (we all do have them!). But it doesn't mean his gifts to the world are not valuable. Indeed they are.
And what is really cool is that we have a student of him, u/danl999 here who succeeded on going down some (full) paths suggested by Carlos. And some other guys who did it without having Carlos at their hand, but using his techniques as a basis. So the fact that Carlos is indeed a treasure for me is totally obvious. And Dan's presence here is a marvel as well.
There is of course the other side of it, which is still speculative to me and where I trust my instincts (not being able to validate it technically yet). I feel that the later books, starting from "The Art of Dreaming" are moving into different intent which is closer to this of ancient seers. You can feel it! It is focusing so much on inorganic beings and "siddhis" (I hate this word, but don't have a better one) and very little is spoken about warior's path, structiring and cleaning out the tonal island or stalking. Maybe Carlos just wanted to give techniques providing dramatic result for people to get interested and practice. This is debatable, but in earlier books it was clearly described that the new seera seeking freedom put stalking of oneself and impeccability as a 1 priority number one. Because a tonal transformed properly directs the shifts of the assemblage point and makes it assemble other great bands, providing necessary boost of energy. Also, it helps to have less inner dialogue. It also helps to avoid lateral shifts and detaches our awareness from focusing on the elements of our ordinary reality, like pettiness, neediness, being jealous, willing personal gains.. And lets us drift into other realities with less baggage and being more empty when coupled with silence. I feel that in combination with silence it could bring us a marvel.
On the other hand, if we follow the later books, there is a bigger emphasis on magic, like dealing with allies, scouts, twin positions, intending dream realities of your own.. It looks like some "quintessence" of magical practices like the pomegranate dot/reading energy, gates of dreaming, intending silence, summoning allies to get results as quick as possible (maybe because Carlos wanted to give a chance to more people and had a very limited time). Maybe some guys would disagree, but the more I get to practice myself and look into how others do it, the more I think that if we do only this, we can end up in old seers situation - having big knowledge, big magical powers and gains, but not having a clean tonal and sobriety to deal with it properly. Of course there is a big risk to end up in some mind calming placebo while trying to work with tonal. But I am sure it can also be avoided if you truly work. Like not knowing what exactly needs to be done with results of this practice. It is only my subjective opinion, like everything else here. But recently I am having a strong feeling about this.