The question of the activities of Carlos Castaneda in the 90s, when a new format for the presentation and dissemination of teachings was created, haunted many for a long time. Often it came to disputes and absurd speculation, but ... maybe there is something in this, though not where they usually look?
If we abstract from the formal and eventful part, many in my memory said that “the mood of the books has changed,” etc. or that according to "Carlos' interviews from the 70s and 90s seem to be given by two different people", that "Castaneda seemed to be ill 90s" and much more. And it would seem that all these are our subjective sensations that emerge in us for one reason or another. But now the third book of Armando Torres "The Universal Web" has been published, and in it we find several interesting episodes, which the author reports about. One of them is that Castaneda conceived a dangerous maneuver to "change himself." Here he is:
“He confirmed that this is the last time we will see each other and that another Carlos will take his place, and that he did not know what the parameters of his behavior would be.
I was shocked by his statement, although I did not understand very well what he was talking about. “But you'll still be yourself, right? Or will you be different? Or ... how are you? " I asked, absentmindedly.
He told me that the “other” would take control of his body, and although he still looked like him, he would no longer be.
"But do you remember the people and events of your life?"
He explained that the other would have full access to his memory, so yes, he would remember everything and everyone. He said he just wished he had enough time to accomplish what he called the "Nagual's Plan." It was about something he told me earlier. It was an incredible maneuver that he planned with the witches, in which they would open a rift between the worlds.
With a very serious expression, he said, “We know this is a very risky endeavor, but others have done it in the past, and I believe we can do the same with the help of our group of practitioners. If that doesn't work, I might die, ”he concluded grimly.
My future meetings with Carlos were no longer the same; on the one hand, he was the same person, but in a sense he was no longer the same person. "
How much to believe the messages of Armando Torres is, of course, a separate question. But we have similar testimonies from people who knew Castaneda personally, and who were participants in his seminars with the 80s and students of classes in the 90s. That is, those who watched all this live and had the opportunity to compare. Interesting? Here are a couple of examples.
One of the attendees of lectures and seminars in Mexico and having a private conversation with Carlos, Edgar Delgado said: “These events took place at the time when his ninth book, The Art of Dreaming, was just published. From that time on, I had the feeling that some part of him was gone. His body remained in this world, but he was no longer the same Nagual ”and that“ perhaps he changed his energy configuration ”. (The Nagual's Witnesses).
Another participant in seminars and Sunday classes, Felix Wolff, who also personally encountered Castaneda in the 80s and was a student in the US in the 90s, writes: “With the publication of The Art of Dreaming in 1993, the mood changed, and through my personal connection with As the nagual, that mood and intention began to prevail, which invariably felt much less abstract than before "and" this is really somehow different from all other books "..." well, I don't know how to explain it. The general mood is different, as if someone else had already written it. " (The Art of Navigation).
Why is that? Coincidence? Or something more that everyone felt differently?
It will probably not be superfluous to recall the recent statements of Renata Murez that the last books were written jointly, and not by Castaneda himself like the previous ones.
Also a significant indicator in this context is the fact that in the "Wheel of Time" only the first 8 books are cited as the basis of the teaching.
It is worth thinking carefully about the question, isn't it? And perhaps with intent to penetrate those different time periods in order to see the picture more whole and purer?
53 Comments
What is the reason to "see the picture more whole and purer"?
Asking honestly to understand your drive and perspective.
The closer we are to a whole and purer picture, the more full and clear our understanding, which means we better see the path to our integrity.
How can we find the truth when our mind is shattered into random fragments? So it is here. If we don't understand the principles of doctrine and the basis of happened events, we will become confused.
That statement right there confused me.
Also Castaneda did say the first 4 book where written by don Juan or at least heavily influenced by him. The 4 after that were under the guidance of Florinda Donner who I do believe was don Juan's closest companion. It isn't until the final 4 that we see Castaneda emerge as a Nagual unto himself. But with the help of his apprentices.
Maybe. One has only to remember that he did not write these books on his own, so there is less trust in them.
And so yes, the first 4 books are the strongest in don Juan's intent (they are also the most documentary, especially the first 3).
I really like each book better than the previous. Especially the last four. Just my prerogative. I get what your saying though.
:)))
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Don't be confused. Taking out of context is one thing, pointing out observation on a specific event is another.
I felt the same way that something happened in the 90s, a change happened. I heard similar thoughts from 20-30 people, similar thoughts, and years later I read these and other observation of people who personally knew Castaneda in the period from the 80s to the 90s. I have not given all such outgiving. They all say that Carlos has become "different."
In fact, you can tune into the flow (intent) through the books and find that they are written from different levels of awareness. And yes, with the books that came out in the 90s - something different, people felt it for a long time (but only lately find out what was the matter - they were not written by Castaneda). It is possible that the 9th book is partially saved, it is likely that part of it was written earlier (in 1977?).
I am sorry, but in this dialogue I am most likely no the one who is :)
Well, everyone knows that, who does the practical part, I think.
Yes. Didn't you think that during the course of time Carlos tried to focus on practical and essential stuff to help people learn?
Not. Because he did not write these books.
A practical book is only the manual Tensegrity (where the series are described, because the rest is a retelling of the note for internal use). Last books provide only a few valuable practical details; these books can be taken away. But you can't do without the first 8 books (maybe partially the 1st and 5th books). The first 8 books are the basis of the teaching (that's why they are cited in The Wheel of Time) + Tensegrity as a practical foundation and a map for deciphering these 8 books. Taisha Abelar's book from a practical point of view brings more practical knowledge than all Castaneda's books "written" in the 90s (with the exception of the Tensgerity series manual).
I essentially do not agree :)
1) The Art of Dreaming - practical guidance for sleeping dreaming. A map.
2) The Active Side of Infinity - a book putting the right emphasis on techniques. Including some variation of the wall we are using here.
3) Well, "The Wheel of Time" - you have mentioned yourself.
But, older books are also important, yes.
There are several technical details in the book. But ontologically, it does not gives important new information. All the basic principles are set out in the first 8 books. With practice, the technical details will be found sooner or later. The only thing that is valuable in Book 9 is the principle of "seeing energy in dreaming". This is a valuable prescription. But sooner or later it would also be caught by those who practice dreaming.
Castaneda did not write this book for sure (perhaps part of it was earlier in the manuscript, which was later reworked into the 9th book). The "wall" technique can be found in the manuals that went for internal use. The method itself is mentioned in earlier books.
Without them, nothing would have happened. Late books are addition in detail (with a distrustful data - the story with the blue scout, the disappearance of Carol, the space invasive species, etc.), but not teaching principles. Take them away - nothing in principle in the doctrine of tradition will change.
I agree on most in this comment, but not on the dreaming part.
Don't you think the gates of dreaming description is valuable?
It used to be, there was simply no word "gate". All principles have been voiced before in books, just not so literally.
I agree. But they were in separate places and this one goes as a guide in one place. It is useful.
Can you be more specific? This one seems interesting.
The books have it. I will voice my opinion if there is time.
Do you have those manuals you mentioned?
The last books were made of them.
Who in the world told you that bullshit? Active side of infinity is one of the more abstract book of Carlos if you can read the energy and feel it, read between the lines and see what is hidden behind the words.. Its my favorite book of him.
As about Carlos change toward 90th, you rely on words of people and nothing can be more deceiving than people's words especially when it relates to some one they envy or are afraid of or smth else, some one who make them feel small and helpless.. If you read properly Carlos, Don Juan was always pointing that if you want to know a person you need to get familiar with him closer not remotely and especially not making the description of smbd life on smbds words....
Bullshit is when we have someones opinion without proof or fantasy about self-greatness :)))
As for the book. Look at its release date. Castaneda in 97 already did not write anything, because he illy saw and practically did not feel his legs and arms. He was physically unable to write the last books. He had diabetes and late stage cancer. This also explains his sometimes hot-tempered behavior in recent years (just in the era of "Sunday classes"). Any doctor will tell you how serious the condition of such patients is.
Renata said that the last books were written by witches and were recorded from his words. They chose something from manuals, chose which stories to insert into books and edited them. It is not known exactly how much their interference was, but the fact that Castaneda did not write as before is for sure. They even changed editor and publisher after Book 8.
On reading, it is noticeable that this is not Castaneda's style. The mood is different. Many used to wonder why, now we know. Previously, they said that books, starting from the 9th, were converted into "manual", now it became clear that they were made from a manual (and possibly a manuscript that later became material for the 9th book and perhaps a fragment from the 10th).
Any patient's condition varies from one to another. How in the world you could know what Carlos wrote and what didn;t. You were physically present there>>?? Even he was dictating his book to Renata and Nyie i don;t see here anything criminal, many autors don't write they only citing it to the writers who print it. You wanted him to print it manually or what??
Yes the style changes but if you READ his books PROPERLY you must have known that in nagualism nothing stays the same forever and changes are main contributing factors of the freedom sought by a warrior.
Carlos changed yes as everyone changed. Don Juan also changed throughout his life journey. When you write your claims you remind the female visitors of Carlos seminars blaming him that he is not consisting in corresponding his own books writing and there are difference between his saying now and then: he told that nothing stays the same ever!
So you just don't understand nagualism at all and you have strong fixation on collecting useless data about Carlos checking its correspondance to the "truth" which is also fully opposite to his teaching,
Meanwhile you gain only grown ego thats the only result of your data collection. You collect it and argue with everyone who is not agree with you- what will be at the end for you>?
You don't read what I write, but you read your own emotional reactions and instead of discussing the subject, you discuss my personality. When people have nothing to say about a question, they become personal. This is the loser's strategy.
I've not said that the books are bad and made not claims. I just said what is obvious. I'm not someone who likes to live in fantasies. If Castaneda did not write these books (as before or in general), then it is so. I don't need to make up fairy tales to justify that it isn't.
I repeat to you again: I am interested in truth, not opinions. If the Earth is round, then I do not care for the opinion that it is flat. Opinions are worthless. Plato called opinions - obsession and madness. I agree with him.
What do you care about that? I develop, practice, seek knowledge. And I have results that I share with others. What do you have?
You didn't answer my question... How do you know Carlos didn't write those books? you're making assumptions on smbds words..
As far as i get from your words here, you don't seek knowledge, because you're mistaken in understanding most of nagualism postulates...
You seek only collecting useless data on Carlos Castaneda..
I answered your question, you are not reading carefully.
And besides how to invent all sorts of nonsense about me, are there other tasks and meanings in your life? You are like a bot that slanders competitors for money (there is such a practice in digital marketing, such groups of bots always work for political bloggers). Take care of yourself and do not waste time replicating fictional opinions.
No, you didn't/ you are liar dude... and you mostly lie to yourself..
This is my problem, what do you read and do not understand what you read? Reread the posts above, there is an answer.
A liar is someone who is looking not for the truth, but for comfortable excuses. Therefore, you do not see the answer, because the answer you want is not there. Who's the liar?
Fact? You wrote that all this is your IMO :))) The problem is that if Torres is not lie in the first book, why should he lie in the third? Although his information outside of communication with Castaneda also seems unreliable to me (even conversations with Carlos, I do not trust everything), but we must to be consistent (objective) and not rely on desires and likes / dislikes.
So he's not the only one who says this in this book. Reread it. Add here the words of Tony Karam from the movie.
And so what? He met Castaneda in the 80s and 90s and talks about the difference. The fact that the "Sunday group" turned into losers is another story. By the way, the same Wallace also noticed a change in Carlos (read). A lot of people talk about it in one way or another. Not for nothing.
Yes, about the critics of Castaneda. Our investigation continues, and interesting moments are revealed. It turns out that ALL who criticize and slander Castaneda had their own selfish or dirty motives. This will be in the future ;)
Money, fame. All plain and simple.
It is not likes/dislikes. It is a common sense and as you like to say a way the books feel. Do you get the right intent in the third book when you are reading those tales of sorcerers saving humanity from fliers? I don't. It is just a fiction book.
I've re-read it many times, in fact, and most likely read more than you could imagine me reading. But what is the point of yours? What are you trying to prove and achieve here? That you are the only one who "gets it"? Well, then unfortunately this is not the case and it is obvious.
Investigation of what exactly? Of course they did have those. And nothing changed - it is obvious some modern guys also have it ;)
Money? ahahaha Absurd. What kind of money can we talk about if he sold a couple of thousand paper books at best. You talk such nonsense about the publishing industry. Fame? The participants of the "Sunday classes" took over everything - considering themselves the most chosen. They also sold far more of their books than Torres (+ videos and BBC interviews). You think all that slander is what about? It's a way to keep pulling someone else's attention to yourself (like parasites).
Reread what I wrote about this. You are not reading what I wrote :)))
... just emotions. You moved from the subject of discussion to the discussion of my personality. You have lost to a fit of your egomania. Congratulations :)))
To find the truth. And restore Castaneda's reputation. Did someone do this before us? Not. Therefore, we will do it.
Or, as I see it, are you opposed to the Sunday class shit coming up? And it will float to the surface. How the crap about Richard de Mille will come out...
Well. Your reaction to my comments says a lot :-D Anyone who tries to open a conversation with you here gets his dose of poison. As I see, even me, being your old acquaintance included. This says a lot about your own level of practice and motives :)
I am reading it very well. Just my comments are not exactly what you want to hear.
You are not reading:)) Re read it :D. I just asked you about your motives here. Because now it seems to me that it is to compete with Dan. Which is as absurd and tragical, as it could be.
There was a question on your goals on this Reddit. I can state mine. Very simple:
1) Learn and share experiences with others.
2) Bring bits and pieces of useful information and finding.
3) Learn something from others and with others.
By the way, I am not having any emotions towards you or anyone here. And about egos and egomaniacs, just look how much poison do you spit out towards other people - sunday classes, Dan, this time even me - so who is exactly behaving from the ego point of perception in that case?
It is sad to admit, but anyone here who does not agree to your "methodology" automatically becomes egomaniac and you perceive him as enemy, who needs to be attacked.
I wanted a discussion with you on the contradictory and challenging topics, but somehow you became too emotionally triggered, most likely..
But what truth? About what exactly? Some secret techniques? Or some personal life stuff?
I am not opposed to anything and anyone. You can see my goals in my previous post. I don't know my old friend, but I think that much more useful is to learn together and share experiences, than seeking who kissed who's ass or looking into historical stuff on who had inflated ago in those sunday classes.
Maybe it is me, I am not up to a melodramas involving people's past...
Look, you've already started speaking from everyone. What's this? Egomania.
It's a lie. If people do not teach me how to live (do not discuss my person), we communicate well. But those who switch to personality first - they immediately lose, because they surrender to the emotions and metastases of their egomania. As soon as you change discussing to my personality and went over to slander, you lost.
I think I know why you like Sunday classes so much :)))
Reaction to what? That you have no idea how the publishing business works? The publishing house where Torres was unprofitable. Therefore, it is ridiculous to say that they have big profit on books. But Amy Wallace, Gabi and others earned some money and a lot of fame from their books and interviews, yes. Who are your words to address?
Ask yourself - why are you so afraid that someone wants to restore Castaneda's reputation with data? Why are you so defending Sunday classes?
I am only doing objective observation here. By reviewing your discussions with Dan. And I am speakinf from myself.
I could not loose, because I am not in war with you or anyone else. And as you can see, you started attacking my personality, I only asked what are your goals which is a valid question and not teaching how to live. And I have zero emotions towards you, on the contrary those are coming from your side.
I have a proposal - let us move to the topic and skip the personalities. Is it fine with you?
Most funny thing is, you can review any of my posts and comments, and there is not a single place I said something which could have you this idea about me. But if you have some illusionary idea, let me help you - no, I do not like sunday classes. And I think that apart from Dan and Cholita they were mostly a failure, the whole project was a failed one.
Don't forget that books is not the whole story. They are trying to promote Replegue as well. Yes, they are failing, but it doesn't mean they did not have intention to earn cash.
Did I ever said you I am afraid? Where are those conclusions from? :-D Sounds really funny. I am not defending Sunday classes - there's no one to defend actually, as they are gone long ago (classes). I don't like them either as you do. I just think that it is an unforgiving waste of time in looking into 'other people's garbage' and presenting it as a great deal. Why not leave them and their ego to themselves and focus on real practical stuff?
What does Dan have to do with it? Speak for yourself. Or looking for a forum authority to support?
Dan was the first to start talking nonsense about me on a regular. So got an answer. Or do you think I will sweep out the floor with a hat in front of him?
Nope. It was not the project that failed, but the people who participated in it. Remember the Sunday classes closed in the summer of 97? Florinda said clearly why.
So what? Is envy eating you? Why don't you let people do what they see fit.
Do you care that the person who gave you the tradition was doused with unfairly shit? Don't think about yourself, think about other, think about Castaneda's legacy.
There is a saying: "in order for bad people to win, good people just need to do nothing." This is exactly what happened. And you don't care. And I (and not only me) do not care. That's the difference between us. Do you remember Castaneda in Book 10 said that debt must be repaid? How do you repay the human spirit? Will you take care of yourself and don't care about tradition? In this way, you cannot attract intent. It is a deception that by acting only for yourself you can get something outside yourself.
If I really wanted, I could have made some nitty-gritty sourcery course as I have experience with people online and live, so trust me I do not have any envy towards those people.
But I earn enough for living and don't have an inflated ego or hidden goals to organize some pseudosorcery courses and take money from people.
By the way, let's move away from personalities and not switch the context. We were talking about the reasoning for Torres' books to appear, not about me. What is your own opinion on that?
I agree on that one.
Dan's clone? :))) Why are you playing one song like stuck vinyl? Why are you worried about other people's hypothetical money? They cling to you? No. Then what do you care about them? What kind of fixation on other people's affairs and money? Besides money, are you interested in anything else in life? People who are attracted by the question of money are actually fixated on money, and what words they say at the same time does not matter.
You behave like cuckoos, like members of a cult, where only you can, and others cannot. They can, and they will do it. So be aware of your fixation.
There was no need to start :)))
What's wrong with Torres' books? He wrote them. If got $ 1000 from this - very good. What is earnings? Find out how many "Judas" got for the frames for the ВВС. The publishing house has long been bankrupt. Because in the 21st century publishing books is unprofitable. So talking about hypothetical "book deals" is nonsense. A person who has never been associated with the work of publishing houses can speak so. There is nothing to talk about here.
As for Torres' message - here everyone decides for himself. You just need to be consistent. If you trust the materials from the 1st book, why don't you trust the materials from the 3rd? If one person wrote this, it means that he is lying everywhere or not lying everywhere. As for the topic, a lot of people feel the change in the 90s. And many people talked about how Castaneda changed before Torres wrote about it in his 3rd book.
So what's the problem?
As for me, I have no confidence in the information that is in the books in episodes where there is no communication with Castaneda. Where there is communication, some episodes look convincing, because they find confirmation from the outside and it is obvious that this is Castaneda's syntax.
And why does this topic touch you so much? I will ignore your insults, as it speaks for your personality, not mine and I don't want to be as toxic as you spitting poison on anyone and descending to this emotional level of talk.
But I will answer specific questions you asked, so people could see this conversation and draw their own conclusions:
1) Why am I worried about money? Simple. Because on many occasions money becomes a main motivator and reason to mislead people. We can observe it everywhere. And yes, I do care, because I care about people. And I want people to at least have a chance to learn, instead of being led by gurus who only care about their profit and pride.
Why does it insult you so much that I point out that I am against earning money on sorcery? You could disagree, this is a personal subjective opinion, but why so wild reaction?
But the reason should be different why it does insult you. It does trigger you, because you know it is true. Simple as that. People want the "easy" way to become a super knowledgeable dreaming, tensegrity or whatever teachers. Because it is so cool, to feel valued by students, that you are an authority to someone. And at the same time to get some cash. A wonderful gift for the ego. Damaging the people, who are "students".
And all just because people couldn't lift their damn ass and go to earn money the usual way people do. And because people want fame and recognition.
How tragic and ugly those grimases of egos can look.
2) Then what do you care about them? What kind of fixation on other people's affairs and money?
Simple. They are destroying other people's chances and Carlos' legacy.
Nothing to comment here. For the future I will ignore such comments as a toxic and inadequate stuff.
I think that his 1st book has some useful info (not all), and later ones are dubious. And people can take truth and put some lies or fantasies on top of that. Couldn't they?
Agree on this.
Again you have confused cause and effect. You again write about hypothetical money, but I am to blame. You wrote the FIRST, I just answer you.
The fixation on money is among those who constantly talk about it and the connotation is not important. You are the first to talk about it. This question does not bother me at all. Realize finally: it doesn't matter if you are "against" or "for", if you remember the question of "money" (the essence of the subject is the same), then you are fixed on this. It's like people who are verbally against sex, but are actually obsessed with it. Inversion. So it is here.
It's just your envy. You want it too, but you can't. This is the root of your problem. Therefore, you create an inversion.
This works like this: feeling of uniqueness, maximum egomania - to consider yourself the chosen one to consider that "magic" is transmitted only by you only on this forum and only for free. Here we are doing the right thing, and they are doing it wrong. Cult.
It is a self-deception that you instill in others.
Don't you understand yet that any trainings take money for the organization and time of a trainer. Nobody takes money for "magic" and other nonsense and excuses made by parasites. Participants pay for time (and information). It's all. Sorcery has nothing to do with it. If you think that other people should work for you for free, you are a parasite. Sunday classes showed - only parasites and "Judas" breeds for free*. Example? They were trained for free, how did they repay? Slander. Castaneda made this clear. This is the reality of life, not fiction on the forum.
* you don't have to pay with money, you can pay with time or service. Shaolin monks used to clean toilets for years, today you can pay cleaners. Which would you choose? Pay money or clean toilets and work in the field? An elementary thing, but not everyone can understand it in the 21st century.
You see envy in everything. A reflection? Inversion? Who knows...
Same here ;)
By the length and emotions of your response it is clearly visible, how it does.
Everything is obvious in the plain sight. I am subsiding from discussion of this topic in this format.
Confession or catharsis? :))) Is the chat finally over?
Remark on the topic raised by jd198703:
There is one truth that reveals the true motives of the parasites: the one who asks for free is the most cunning trader, because he makes others work for himself for free, without investing anything in the process except beautiful words and complaints about those who take money for work. But fools play his game :))) It's like the Communist Party, which forced ordinary people to work for free by slogans, but itself was glamorous relaxation at the resort.
Before raising an empty hypothetical question "about money" for any reason - try to find at least one thing that you can get without money (without the resources spent in the process, because "money" is the equivalent of resources). There are no such things in reality. Even on imagination, you spend energy in the brain, which was taken from food... And no "magic" will change this law of the world. Whoever did not understand this - still lives in the child's mind.
This question was very accurately and clearly described by Gurdjieff in Ouspensky's book "In Search of the Miraculous." Gurdjieff said that those who only take and complain are unable to practice. The example of Sunday classes - confirmed this truth. At first, the members only take, then they only complained.
Don't you understand that these "parasites" are those "broken people - volunteers" who want to learn knowledge on their own terms? That is why they are not taken into the tradition, because they will not succeed: they will take, but in return they will complain. Such people are "always not enough" and always "something is wrong" for them. A typical situation for Sunday classes. Do you recognize?
These truths are hundreds of years old. Do the parasite-traders think they are smarter?
Do you know why? Because you don't care about people. You are looking for benefits for yourself hiding behind conversations about "practice". If not, then why do you judge others?
But the fact is, looking for truth in the data is part of the practice, it's a way to understand the doctrine deeper and tell others about it. The fact that someone is restoring a reputation with data does not exclude that these people are practicing. Elementary.
You are infected with the virus of the Sunday classes - the cuckoo (everything for yourself and only yours). The point of the Sunday classes is to show a human-parasite. Do you want to share their fate?
You say that you came here to share your practice. Share! So far, you are discussing me, because you did not like what I wrote on the subject of the topic. As for me - as you can see, I share my experiences and results of practice. Yes, the problem is in the language, but...
Wow, how many emotions and conclusions from nothing :-D I already stated my goals and I am not hiding anything.
What about you? The same question remains, what are your own goals here?
About the judgement, isn't your all recent comments about people and personalities with personal judgement?
How can looking into people's ego help you understand the doctrine?
So who is discussing personalities after all? You even found a word for me. Both sad and funny...
If you looked deeper into reddit, I did that. And am going to do it further, when I will have some good results valuable enough to share.
I have no desire to discuss you as a person. And about a topic - this is not a like/dislike thing. I just shared my opinion on it, that is it.
... my opinion... about my person :)))
Look at what point you moved from discussing the topic to discussing my person. Hint: when you had nothing to argue about the fact that the Yoliliztli publishing house is unprofitable, you moved on to discuss me, where I immediately objected to you.
Not about your person, but about the topic you offered to discuss.
We can, if you would like to, no objections from my side :)
I am writing again - not ego, but DATA. the materials are based on data, and on the information of all people, but not a select few who decided to sell gossip and fiction at a higher price to journalists.
Not this way. Who started first? You. Get an answer. Why do you start first, and then wonder that a mirror response has arrived?
It's like in Sunday classes: at first they did shit, but then they wondered what the consequences were. Don't blame the mirror that your face is ugly :))) Carlos was the mirror for their egomania. Do they understand now? Hardly.
Then it sounds fine.
As I've proposed before, let's end this line of speech as we will hardly find consensus here and will end up insulting each other over bullshit. I think that this reddit deserves better content than our arguments over each other's personalities.
So I will wisely choose to ignore this last part of your comments and skip to answer. Not because I don't have what to say, I do, but because again it is a waste of time.
I think that Dan does :) Others don't.
I think don't :)))
The last public stage in the distribution of knowledge in the 90s - a new Castaneda?, was the OP title of this post. And the content was:
The question of the activities of Carlos Castaneda in the 90s, when a new format for the presentation and dissemination of teachings was created, haunted many for a long time. Often it came to disputes and absurd speculation, but ... maybe there is something in this, though not where they usually look?
If we abstract from the formal and eventful part, many in my memory said that “the mood of the books has changed,” etc. or that according to "Carlos' interviews from the 70s and 90s seem to be given by two different people", that "Castaneda seemed to be ill 90s" and much more. And it would seem that all these are our subjective sensations that emerge in us for one reason or another. But now the third book of Armando Torres "The Universal Web" has been published, and in it we find several interesting episodes, which the author reports about. One of them is that Castaneda conceived a dangerous maneuver to "change himself." Here he is:
“He confirmed that this is the last time we will see each other and that another Carlos will take his place, and that he did not know what the parameters of his behavior would be.
I was shocked by his statement, although I did not understand very well what he was talking about. “But you'll still be yourself, right? Or will you be different? Or ... how are you? " I asked, absentmindedly.
He told me that the “other” would take control of his body, and although he still looked like him, he would no longer be.
"But do you remember the people and events of your life?"
He explained that the other would have full access to his memory, so yes, he would remember everything and everyone. He said he just wished he had enough time to accomplish what he called the "Nagual's Plan." It was about something he told me earlier. It was an incredible maneuver that he planned with the witches, in which they would open a rift between the worlds.
With a very serious expression, he said, “We know this is a very risky endeavor, but others have done it in the past, and I believe we can do the same with the help of our group of practitioners. If that doesn't work, I might die, ”he concluded grimly.
My future meetings with Carlos were no longer the same; on the one hand, he was the same person, but in a sense he was no longer the same person. "
How much to believe the messages of Armando Torres is, of course, a separate question. But we have similar testimonies from people who knew Castaneda personally, and who were participants in his seminars with the 80s and students of classes in the 90s. That is, those who watched all this live and had the opportunity to compare. Interesting? Here are a couple of examples.
One of the attendees of lectures and seminars in Mexico and having a private conversation with Carlos, Edgar Delgado said: “These events took place at the time when his ninth book, The Art of Dreaming, was just published. From that time on, I had the feeling that some part of him was gone. His body remained in this world, but he was no longer the same Nagual ”and that“ perhaps he changed his energy configuration ”. (The Nagual's Witnesses).
Another participant in seminars and Sunday classes, Felix Wolff, who also personally encountered Castaneda in the 80s and was a student in the US in the 90s, writes: “With the publication of The Art of Dreaming in 1993, the mood changed, and through my personal connection with As the nagual, that mood and intention began to prevail, which invariably felt much less abstract than before "and" this is really somehow different from all other books "..." well, I don't know how to explain it. The general mood is different, as if someone else had already written it. " (The Art of Navigation).
Why is that? Coincidence? Or something more that everyone felt differently?
It will probably not be superfluous to recall the recent statements of Renata Murez that the last books were written jointly, and not by Castaneda himself like the previous ones.
Also a significant indicator in this context is the fact that in the "Wheel of Time" only the first 8 books are cited as the basis of the teaching.
It is worth thinking carefully about the question, isn't it? And perhaps with intent to penetrate those different time periods in order to see the picture more whole and purer?
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