I told myself last night when a lot of this happened maybe I should wake up properly and write it down immediately otherwise I’ll forget because it felt so important. I didn’t though; and now it’s damn well hazy! Here’s the remnants of what I remember. I can tell you I know it was one the best results I’ve had yet.
So as soon as all the lights were off and I lay on my side and shut my eyes I remember being surprised at ALREADY how bright I was seeing like a bright static energy coming through, and some tiny orbs.
Literally from the first second I felt “oh maybe this will be a real good one tonight. I can see stuff already”
Now, I think very possibly shortly after this point, in second attention. I spun quickly deeper into feeling of my assemblage point moving FAR. I’m sure it felt like I was quickly falling asleep or going into a sleep paralysis more so, all I was seeing was my room but that an extreme overwhelming feeling of dread and something scary and tremendous about to happen, this was exciting, ominous, but I think I pussied out, got, scared, and shook myself out of it and opened up my eyes and came back to reality very quickly!
It was crazy, I came back to base awake point here for real, and said to myself “nope; I’m diving straight back in;” and closed my eyes again to try focus and get silent.
I reached second attention very quickly I remember.
That is, with my eye closed, laying down in bed in the total darkness, I could make out a kindof silhouette of everything more or less in my room, girlfriend included, and I remember weirdly in second attention last night there being a sort of alter or small unit, that doesn’t actually physically exist, I think towards my door. It just felt like the outline of a for example wooden alter with items on top of it, I feel like a vaguely remember that I could make out a skull on top of this, but that is hazy. It stood out a lot in the second attention and I remember racking my brains as too what it was or why it was there as it doesn’t actually exist in my room.
Swoops and puffs also, for whatever reason, came in extremely quickly for me last night after I went back to eyes closed this second time. I am almost certain that I saw a puff with a very distinct face in it just like a lot of you guys have seen which I haven’t before, and I’m sure I remember being like “OH MY GOD! I ACTUALLY SEEN ONE, A FACE COME OUT THE PUFF!” it is very hard for me for some reason to recall if I had interaction or what happened with this, but I don’t remember it being quick or fleeting, I remember it being very clear and getting the shocked feeling at how clear it was, it’s just that the whole memory is blurry. This was before the big dreaming visions came in, but my lucidity was there, that was all I was focusing on.
I remember, as usual, big dreaming visions swooping in as the time went on and wanting to just lull me away To dream land but I’m getting better at returning to a silent focused centre and just letting them pass by and remain lucid. I wish I could remember for details too about what I seen here but I remember them being vivid.
I remember it was around this time I was being able to move my dream body!!!!! While lucid and still being conscious that I was laying in my bed!!!! I was moving my dream body, I think easily! Moving my arms around and maybe even my upper torso!
And, once again, I think for my second successful time during these practice sessions, I was able to stay entirely lucid STRAIGHT into the beginning of the dream.
This time it was very different than my last one (the town with the church service and the man) and this time I did NOT forget to practice switching between looking at my hands and looking at something else to remain lucid.
Infact I was almost manic and panicking about that, maybe too much!
The dream world was very different this time too, it just felt like the level of some indie PlayStation one game.
I don’t remember there being much landscape. The main thing was the floor/long floating platform, which was like, if you can imagine an old roman mosaic, but all the little squares are completely black, and more silicone than ceramic, and they were all loose, I was scooping them up and they’d spill out my hand not particularly adhering to the laws of gravity. Remember the ps1 game qube? It was kinda like that.
qube
This was all great but I just kept panicking in my head “look between your hands and look at another object back and fourth or you’ll stop being lucid,”
So I was almost not caring about what was actually in the dreaming and worrying more about this back and fourth.
My hand I remember didn’t seem deformed like last time, last time this happened I had an extra finger that was bent back sort of arthritic. This was not the case, and the only object I could find to switch between looking at after my hand were these pesky black mosaic squares I could pick up from the floor.
The back and fourth obviously didn’t help too much, as I don’t remember really much about after this. There might have been but I’m struggling to remember it.
TLDR:
Last night, the purple puffs were rife, I seen a face in the puff! For the first time! A clear face! Like possibly an actual iob! I ACTUALLY MOVED MY DREAM BODY WHILST NOT YET IN A DREAM! (just in second attention mode with eyes closed) and I remained entirely lucid stepping into my dream and remembered to atleast try to do the remaining lucid trick.
Any insights or feedback would be great. Why did I find it last night in particular so hard to remember even when not yet asleep? Why didn’t the back and fourth between hands and objects not work to atleast help me remember more lucidity?
Has anyone else has this where as soon as you turn off the lights or shut your eyes you already see it all jumping out like straight away? This is a great feeling. Especially with all the result-less practices I’ve had in the past.
13 Comments
Any shifts of the AP are difficult to recall from our daytime/everyday position, dream recall being a prime example. Dan's thumbs-up maneuver is an indexing tool, a simple but rarely-used behavior that can be repeated while awake to sync-up with that recent shift.
Invent your own if a thumbs-up doesn't float your boat! That's what I did.
And recap is said to bring back past dream recall, by increasing the flexibility of the AP.
Dreaming attention, and how much you had stored-up. That's why daytime practices integrated into life are so vital to progress.
I need to go search the post on the thumbs up, I’ve not read that yet, but sounds like it’s exactly what I’m after.
is this like chi? Prana? Tensegrity? Sperm retention? Wu-wei? I’ve not came across “storing dreaming attention,” or “dreaming attention yet,”
Thank you Techno
It's a complex concept. At it's most basic level it's going about your everyday life in a non-ordinary way. Paying attention to things you usually overlook, acting on silent impulse rather than thought, and behaviors that "are out of character" to the people who know you.
Things that force you out of the internal monologue.
Tensegrity is a not-doing and engages that attention, but if your Amish (a Luddite) and are forced to rebuild an engine that would do it to.
Ok, so like daily forcing silence and bringing yourself back to intent. Constantly being perceptive to the subtler forces. Constantly easing out the second perception in waking life?
And I’m sorry you lost me at Amish and Luddite.
The Amish use horse-and-carriage transportation, and shun all technology beyond the 18th-19th century.
Techno's explanation is true.
It's exactly what Taisha or Florinda would have said in class. Carlos put them up to lecturing a couple of times (not many).
I think they didn't like it. They looked like they got stuck giving an unpleasant "show and tell" in elementary school.
However, I never saw their advice work.
Possibly it's because, when you're stuck in "me, me, me" thinking (still have internal dialogue), you won't make the right choices for what to emphasize or not emphasize.
I still say, use the puffs Luke!
(Still hoping for Star Wars blast helmets at workshops)
Trust the puffs!
They never lie.
If you force your internal dialogue off and succeed, you get a puff show.
You go back to "me, me, poor baby me" in your mind, and the puffs ditch you.
It's like having your older sibling standing next to you, with orders to hit you on the head if you're deceiving yourself.
Older siblings love to do that, and know all of your tricks.
The puffs are even more knowledgeable about your flaws. They can hear what you are thinking.
Otherwise, if we go along with the idea that we can disrupt routines, engage in stalking, be impeccable, and learn sorcery, we'll actually only lie to ourselves about doing those things.
And the few times we didn't lie and really did it, won't make up for the rest of the day when we're assholes.
Even darkroom gazing which produces impossible magic right in your face, can't stand up to the next 20 hours you'll be outside the darkroom.
Now as it relates to dreaming attention, our dreaming attention comes out best when we didn't get in a fight that day, didn't overeat, are in good health, aren't too excited about something in the "real world", and generally feel like a stereotypical "Jamaican" cool guy.
Don't worry, be happy!
But then, it gets used up!
And you can force it back by doing not-doings, and other such stuff. Glitter gazing perhaps.
It's a death trap! We don't have enough time left to go down that path.
If you get the urge to learn, you have to do it right then. Can't wait.
You'll flake out if anything causes you to delay learning for real.
Better to force the internal dialogue off until you can manage to do it all day long.
Being silent is the best way to save energy, especially dreaming energy.
Once you have amazing, impossible, wonderful magic in your life, you'll be in a safer place.
And then stalking seems like a good idea.
Things which have come to the forefront during my push for silence:
We intend by intending. This can't be explained with words, understood, or taught; and trying to do so impedes it. It's primal.
What you said about awareness being where our interest is focused. I've been really chewing on that one.
How sensitive the process is to external influences. I find I can't watch movies or other media because of the disruptions they cause, the past agreements and communal drives they kindle.
Something Juann2323 wrote, that we actually devote energy to engaging in the monologue, that it's a pact of sorts we habitually agree to. It doesn't happen totally automatically, and requires participation. But it's been going on for so long that we forgot about this key fact.
The desperate need to tap into the cumulative and pre-established "sorcerer's intent." Trying to forge a path through the briars when one has already been cleared, is unneccesary and crippling. Leave your ego in the dumpster.
And lastly, how constant it needs to be, the intending; how challenging it is to pick up the thread of it again when fumbled; and that intending is the only way to get to that truly magical/inexplicable silence. Period.
(and INTENT only responds to clear action, overt or internal, not vacillation/rumination)
All the dreaming memories are stored in your organs. Once you move your body after your dreaming, the organs are moved as well and therefore dreaming memories are nowhere near as accessible. Write them down without moving your organs at all. I have switched to being on my back. It is bolder and more intense. Takes getting used to it and produces a deeper shift for me. It also makes it so my organs don’t move at all when I use just my arm carefully to reach for pen and journal or phone to document. Indifference and detachment makes for much more intense possibilities as well. When your life is amazing.. because you are living your dreams both day and night, the obsession to achieve results- which is effective at first- goes away and dreaming intensifies both in dreaming awake and night dreaming. Impeccability is not discipline.. and obsession comes from discipline and old style Castaneda follower ego based desires. We all go through these specific stages of the Castaneda world ego. Carol told me about the stages. We have to get past those to move into our own creative imagination that expands our idea of what we are.. beyond what those books and CC obsessed teachers push for. Make this path your own and the earth mother will love you and reward you for becoming your true self rather than trying to be a copy of what others do. CC shared very little of his experiences and saved the real gems for those that find that all on their own.
> remember weirdly in second attention last night there being a sort of alter or small unit,
Potential IOB!
I'm beginning to believe that WE give the IOBs their "bodies". It happens what way in dreaming, with scouts. They take over whatever is available.
And in darkroom gazing you find a hypnogogic head, but if you keep playing with it, eventually it starts to teach you more. And can physically move things.
Fancy did that again recently for someone outside this subreddit.
So the "body" you might have created yourself, gets taken over.
That concept can be used in darkroom gazing to summon an inorganic being you already know. Make it a body any way you can, although that's a bit too advanced for most at this stage.
If you can focus your attention on that imaginary structure without making it go away, it could pull you all the way to heightened awareness.
> I remember, as usual, big dreaming visions swooping in as the time went o
I'm glad you're doing it with eyes closed next to the girlfriend, because this helps others who have to do it that way, and aren't sure it's going to work.
Seems, it does work!
But this is precisely why I normally recommend people not to close their eyes.
It goes inward, not outward.
This is ALL about where your attention is focused. Nothing else.
So outward versus inward is a HUGE difference.
The dreaming this technique leads to is of a different kind. It's probably closer to a virtual world, than a phantom dream world. Since you go in there while practicing sorcery, it's common to bring your obsessions in there, and find yourself with famous figures from Carlos' books. Or other practitioners you have met.
People begin to go insane doing this sort of dreaming, and tell people they met don Juan, and he taught them some secret moves. Or that they did "shared dreaming" because they find Reni running around in there.
It's less "sober" to go that path, but if you can manage not to get a fat head and start signing book deal contracts, it should be equivalent in the long run, to walking around with eyes open.
> The back and fourth obviously didn’t help too much,
Actually it did. You rang the "buzzer" that signals scouts to come. But then you kept ringing it over and over. I suppose you could end up with an annoyed scout, if they actually cared about such things. More likely is, it could tie into that obsession and try to extend it. So it can feed off the energy generated.
Which is still a good thing for you. You want it to have as much of your energy as you can spare, so it comes back for more.
> Why did I find it last night in particular so hard to remember even when not yet asleep?
Because to remember something, you have to send an index to the brain.
An index of where that memory is located.
The "index" can be anything. A bad smell on a certain street. The sun shining too hard in your eyes as you looked at the tallest building in the world.
Anything tied to that scene is a viable index. But the more you can add to the index, like sun in eyes, but cute girl in red dress goes by and reminds you of the movie, "The Matrix", will help. The more info, the better.
But all the info you can think of at this position of the assemblage point is tied to this world. It can't access a shifted assemblage point view. You have to recall something that happened when you were at that position.
Like a thumbs up you give yourself at the time. The thumbs up encapsulates so much more than just your thumb moving. And provides enough "index" to locate the memory, which will never be clear unless you can fully move your assemblage point to that same spot.
Now a warning: You just got gifted by intent.
You probably have to earn the next one.
If not, you have talent!
So U think when u feel like there’s a piece of furniture or some object in your room close to you in second attention, that isn’t actually representative of something in your room physically can be an iob?
Cos the second attention room I see does have kinda like Salvador Dali physics sometimes if you know what I mean. Like if I’m physically lying with my feet facing south and my head facing north; in second attention, it can feel like my heads facing south and my feet are facing north, you know? It doesn’t always match up perfectly.
So these extra or wrong placements of things in the second attention compared to the first, can be iob’s? And not just some distortion between the two ways of seeing?
I didn’t Create this unit or alter, it didn’t emerge from a puff, it just felt like it was beside me, like how you feel when your standing beside a mannequin in a store. It’s a thing there, but it’s just a thing.
Well yes! I think that perfectly describes what I’m trying to do at night. When I close my eyes and lie down in bed I’m not trying to press the off switch from the world and retreat into a snail shell, rather, I’m saying, ok! Now we’re here! What’s the game plan! Who’s coming to the party? Are we gona party all night?
And I do make a conscious effort to try and let the second attention vision of the room come thru, instead of invoking darkness and sleepiness just to be unconscious. That’s what my focus is on, keeping attention and focus. And it gets very difficult the longer it gets on.
Well, at what point is the line? When do I stop processing my dreams as fantasia and illusory and when do I start knowing that My dreams are closer to walking with eyes open? Say I dream and I meet Don Juan, how do I know if it’s me going insane in the way like you said, or if it’s me actually meeting Don Juan?
Omg ur right. I got confused. I thought doing the back and fourth thing was a thing to remain lucid, but no, it was a thing to attract a scout!! Crap. Well now I’ll know for next time.
So what’s the remain lucid trick?
And lastly,
Ur the second comment in the thread to mention the dans thumbs up trick, and it’s the second time I dunno what it is, so I’ll search the subreddit for the post on it now.
Thank you Dan.
>Now, I think very possibly shortly after this point, in second attention. I spun quickly deeper into feeling of my assemblage point moving FAR. I’m sure it felt like I was quickly falling asleep or going into a sleep paralysis more so, all I was seeing was my room but that an extreme overwhelming feeling of dread and something scary and tremendous about to happen, this was exciting, ominous, but I think I pussied out, got, scared, and shook myself out of it and opened up my eyes and came back to reality very quickly!
that happens to me often!!!! hahaha
Next time I’m gona try be less of a pussy!
keep reading this forum. There is a lot of gold in here.
My last lucid dream happened last week. It happened after darkroom practice.
I went to cuddle (hehehe) with my wife, but at this moment I was not sleepy. I was trying to see the same lights and fog that I see in Darkroom practice but with my eyes close in bed...
Out of nowhere a big whole opened up.. like below me. I thought -- hhuumm... what would happen to my wife when I try to stretch my arms to start to slide down this hole" You see, I knew I was in a dream and I was concern that my movements in the dream was also movements on my first attention. And if that happened I was probably going to move my wife out of the bed. I continue making my way down the hole. The hole had ring like structure, with rings color black and brown. When I got to the end of the hole I realized I was in a bed. I scan around and it was like a small room with shelf books, similar to a college door room.... then I lost it...
I have the thought of starting college for a while. I like to study and I am good at it. But for a while I was some type of scare of failure if i start. I have been working on that fear, and now I feel better than ever to start. The meaning of that dream for me is that "I am reading to start that next chapter of my life".