So the only original copy they have is checked out to someone right now, it's due back 4/30/2021!
The only other copy is a photocopy 🤯
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u/lurklops
6 points2021-01-27 18:11
Behind the times much UCLA?
Edit: maybe u/danl999 can get his hands on it somehow and run it though a scanner so it's available to us.
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u/danl999
7 points2021-01-27 18:25
We need someone who knows how to go into UCLA library and ask for something.
We have a few who live there near the library.
I suspect you can even request to send the copy to a sister college, like UCR.
But once they see "Castaneda", they might have a history of crazy, angry men coming by to see it.
It can't be very long. A camera in video mode ought to do the job.
Seems like a pre-cursor to his Hermeneutics idea!
I appreciate that topic more and more as I progress.
It takes a while before my claim, that we live in an ugly agricultural myth, seems obviously very true.
The average person however would instantly deny it, and explain all the "pleasures" they get out of life.
Actually, it's more like, within the system of total suffering, they've learned what's ok to seek. And once it's gone, that you are supposed to be happy just remembering it.
That's the "description" part of his thesis.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
1 points2021-01-27 18:35
It can't be very long. A camera in video mode ought to do the job.
It's 360 pages. That would take a moderate amount of time.
The Library of Congress's microfilm / microfiche thesis collections haven't been digitized beyond the 1990's.
It takes a while before my claim, that we live in an ugly agricultural myth, seems obviously very true.
The average person however would instantly deny it, and explain all the "pleasures" they get out of life.
Actually, it's more like, within the system of total suffering, they've learned what's ok to seek. And once it's gone, that you are supposed to be happy just remembering it.
Yes! I've had that debate with people in the past. They always follow with 'look at the roads, we need those!' When ultimately the 'roads' they seem to be unable to live without are only a byproduct of the current way of living and are nowhere near a necessity.
Brainwashed into believing the things that have been created by the slavery, to perpetuate it, are in fact what we need to be 'happy'. And that the happiness is the high we need to be chasing constantly.
[-]
u/danl999
6 points2021-01-27 19:36
The Olmecs had roads all over.
But probably the population is too large to live in any other myth for now.
It boils down to: Get yourself some rooms to live in, find a mate, make children, and don't complain or you're a bad person.
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u/lurklops
2 points2021-01-27 19:51
Exactly
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u/Iak7_is_West
3 points2021-01-27 20:54
It takes a while before my claim, that we live in an ugly agricultural myth, seems obviously very true.
The average person however would instantly deny it, and explain all the "pleasures" they get out of life.
I had a synchronicity with that not long ago listening to a podcast. One of the hosts speculated that maybe humans lost the ability to remote view due to the advent of agriculture and not having to defend against sabre tooth tigers. That perked my ears right up.
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u/[deleted]
2 points2021-01-27 20:54deleted
[removed]
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u/lurklops
1 points2021-01-28 01:52
Sounds like Idiocalypse
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u/trtrt__
1 points2021-03-31 08:58
It has been returned, now awailable at SRLF.
A UCLA member can request remote digitization via PETDOR:
General Information. The UCLA Library's Document Delivery Service is available to UCLA faculty, students, and staff on a cost-recovery basis. Registered Document Delivery Service users can request copies of journal articles and chapters from books as well as borrow items owned by the campus libraries.
So it's possible to get a copy, but you have to be in that chain of allowed users. Not sure how you register.
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u/Lost_Noise2297
3 points2021-01-27 20:03
His 1973 Ph.D. dissertation entitled Sorcery: A Description of the World, deposited in the UCLA library and otherwise unavailable under that title, is Journey to Ixtlan plus an abstract in academic language.
Found this passage on the essay "The Scientific Reception of Castaneda" written by Stephen O. Murray
Might not be worth to scan the whole thing.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
1 points2021-01-27 20:20
Oh, I see. I did read that somewhere, but assumed it was his first book that was repackaged for academic submission.
Wasn't certain about any of it though.
Thanks!
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u/[deleted]
2 points2021-05-20 14:39recovered
Read the abstract years ago. The full dissertation was not available. It is my understanding Journey to Ixtlan was his dissertation in public, published form. He also made the point his work was emic, not etic, anthropology. Debunkers often miss this point, as well as supportive evidence for Castaneda's legitimacy. I also communicated with the UCLA anthropology graduate dept who said his PhD was not revoked, contrary to other misinformation. After his death, much of his records became sealed.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
1 points2021-05-20 14:54
Someone in the private practice subreddit contacted UCLA and they told him that it has actually been stolen several times in the past, the single circulating photocopy that is.
Per Castaneda's wishes there can't be any further duplication of it. But because of the controversy surrounding it, they are looking into scanning it and having a digitally lendable version available to UCLA students.
They just haven't gotten around to it yet, possibly because of legal red-tape.
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u/[deleted]
1 points2021-05-20 14:59recovered
Makes sense.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Lie8528
1 points2026-03-13 21:42
I swear that I saw an early academic dissertation by Castaneda on life in a traditional central Mexican village. It was a study, not a literary work. Some people later said the village was Topolobampo. I can’t find any reference to this work.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Lie8528
1 points2026-03-13 22:21
Sorry for the above incorrect post. It’s been many years ago now. I was confusing this with the work of Oscar Lewis, whose earlier anthropology studies found their way into two literary classics. Definitely not Carlos Castaneda.
25 Comments
It was published by University Microfilms in 1973. It's listed as being in book format, 360 pgs.
Understandably it's only held at the UCLA library, and they likely don't lend out thesis.
Doesn't the library of congress also have a copy of most things?
There are projects to digitize all books, it might get swept up at some point. Especially since it has a famous authors name.
The Library of Congress likely has it on microfilm/microfiche, but only thesis from the '90s onward have been digitized.
Lurklops just found out below that it hasn't been digitized by UCLA either, and that only 2 copies exist.
As far as I can determine it's the only official publication of Castaneda's that isn't openly or readily available.
[deleted]
Doesn't look like they've ever converted it to digital either
https://catalog.library.ucla.edu/vwebv/holdingsInfo?&bibId=965039&searchId=1007&recPointer=0&recCount=50
So the only original copy they have is checked out to someone right now, it's due back 4/30/2021!
The only other copy is a photocopy 🤯
Behind the times much UCLA?
Edit: maybe u/danl999 can get his hands on it somehow and run it though a scanner so it's available to us.
We need someone who knows how to go into UCLA library and ask for something.
We have a few who live there near the library.
I suspect you can even request to send the copy to a sister college, like UCR.
But once they see "Castaneda", they might have a history of crazy, angry men coming by to see it.
It can't be very long. A camera in video mode ought to do the job.
Seems like a pre-cursor to his Hermeneutics idea!
I appreciate that topic more and more as I progress.
It takes a while before my claim, that we live in an ugly agricultural myth, seems obviously very true.
The average person however would instantly deny it, and explain all the "pleasures" they get out of life.
Actually, it's more like, within the system of total suffering, they've learned what's ok to seek. And once it's gone, that you are supposed to be happy just remembering it.
That's the "description" part of his thesis.
It's 360 pages. That would take a moderate amount of time.
The Library of Congress's microfilm / microfiche thesis collections haven't been digitized beyond the 1990's.
https://ask.loc.gov/faq/300086
Yes! I've had that debate with people in the past. They always follow with 'look at the roads, we need those!' When ultimately the 'roads' they seem to be unable to live without are only a byproduct of the current way of living and are nowhere near a necessity.
Brainwashed into believing the things that have been created by the slavery, to perpetuate it, are in fact what we need to be 'happy'. And that the happiness is the high we need to be chasing constantly.
The Olmecs had roads all over.
But probably the population is too large to live in any other myth for now.
It boils down to: Get yourself some rooms to live in, find a mate, make children, and don't complain or you're a bad person.
Exactly
I had a synchronicity with that not long ago listening to a podcast. One of the hosts speculated that maybe humans lost the ability to remote view due to the advent of agriculture and not having to defend against sabre tooth tigers. That perked my ears right up.
[removed]
Sounds like Idiocalypse
It has been returned, now awailable at SRLF.
A UCLA member can request remote digitization via PETDOR:
https://www.library.ucla.edu/research-teaching-support/pilot-emergency-temporary-digitization-request-petdor-service-ucla-researchers
Anyone know a UCLA member?
From the internet:
General Information. The UCLA Library's Document Delivery Service is available to UCLA faculty, students, and staff on a cost-recovery basis. Registered Document Delivery Service users can request copies of journal articles and chapters from books as well as borrow items owned by the campus libraries.
So it's possible to get a copy, but you have to be in that chain of allowed users. Not sure how you register.
Found this passage on the essay "The Scientific Reception of Castaneda" written by Stephen O. Murray
Might not be worth to scan the whole thing.
Oh, I see. I did read that somewhere, but assumed it was his first book that was repackaged for academic submission.
Wasn't certain about any of it though.
Thanks!
Read the abstract years ago. The full dissertation was not available. It is my understanding Journey to Ixtlan was his dissertation in public, published form. He also made the point his work was emic, not etic, anthropology. Debunkers often miss this point, as well as supportive evidence for Castaneda's legitimacy. I also communicated with the UCLA anthropology graduate dept who said his PhD was not revoked, contrary to other misinformation. After his death, much of his records became sealed.
Someone in the private practice subreddit contacted UCLA and they told him that it has actually been stolen several times in the past, the single circulating photocopy that is.
Per Castaneda's wishes there can't be any further duplication of it. But because of the controversy surrounding it, they are looking into scanning it and having a digitally lendable version available to UCLA students.
They just haven't gotten around to it yet, possibly because of legal red-tape.
Makes sense.
I swear that I saw an early academic dissertation by Castaneda on life in a traditional central Mexican village. It was a study, not a literary work. Some people later said the village was Topolobampo. I can’t find any reference to this work.
Sorry for the above incorrect post. It’s been many years ago now. I was confusing this with the work of Oscar Lewis, whose earlier anthropology studies found their way into two literary classics. Definitely not Carlos Castaneda.