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Is anyone reaching the double, or the 4th gate, on demand?
Darkroom Practice
Sometimes I feel like I'm aiming for a target that I'll never reach.
The goal? Control.
Reaching the double at will. Reaching the dreaming gates at will.
Every. Time. EVERY time.
I can't. I walked away 20 years ago because I couldn't do it at will.
And it hit me...
Is ANYONE able to do this? I'm new to the subreddit so if asking this question is inappropriate, I'll withdraw it.
I've recounted my past before, and it's in my bio: I've done so much, and yet done nothing. If I can't do it at will, then what have I really achieved? Shit.
So after years of practice, after doing things beyond my wildest dreams, I gave up because I couldn't do it at will.
Now I've started up again, adding in Darkroom Gazing, it's been weeks....
I've seen filaments, purple puffs, seems to see with eyes closed.... reached the double once by accidentally falling asleep and waking up 'wrapped up tight like a cigar' in my own body and rolling out. But that was one time, by chance.
To what end?
I think I've gotten confused somewhere as what roadmap Darkroom Gazing is guiding me down? Eventually, is the idea I will reach the second attention and start seeing dream worlds on my wall, or floor, or hand? And then I enter that way into those realms? Does my body tip forward and will I hit my face on the floor? Should I be laying down? And if I'm laying down, darkroom gazing at the ceiling, does that count?
Feeling a little lost, don't know what exactly every else is 'really' achieving, don't know if I'm shooting for a goal that doesn't exist.
For example... could Carlos himself enter dreaming at will? Reach the double at will?
Again, if any of this is seen as 'counter-productive' to this sub, mods feel free to delete or I will withdraw. I've resumed practice for a few weeks now and reached the double once 'luckily' via lucid dreaming.... I call that 'the backdoor'.... but beyond that, I've yet to feel like I understand the road through the front door - Gazing.
So I'm wondering who is doing magic, on demand, at will - not just colors, lights, purple puffs and shimmering lines.... (I'm not discounting that, it's the first steps, but wondering who has gone further), and actually reaching the double, or even reaching dreaming through gazing... if anyone?
Tx
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You're in on the ground-floor of things in here, at the renovation stage as it were. Two years ago the sub consisted entirely of short random quotes from the books, with no comments or discussion. There was the occasional "I'm having trouble with," or "has anyone ever" post, with nary a whisper of response...or possibly another quote from the books.
In other words, dead. I know because I used to pop-in a few times a year and never found anything compelling enough to even justify clicking the join button.
Momentum takes time, and freedom from distraction. I actually attribute the lack of momentum to societal preoccupation with figuring out the internet and it's proper place in our lives.
We're all like toddlers with a shiny new box of toys who forgot it's way past their dinner time. Eventually our tummies want for something other than endless short-attention span fluff and validation.
And I usually put my own experience posts in the private practice sub now, but I'm still at the on-demand stage...just persistent. The other half of on-demand isn't up to us, per se, but to INTENT. That's why the mastery of intent is a better descriptor than sorcery. It's a partnership (for lack of a better word).
If there's no wind behind your repaired sail, you're not going anywhere.
I didn't realize there was a place for posting private practice. Thank you for directing me to it.
It's by invitation only.
Basically once you prove you're sincere, actively practicing, aren't disruptive, and are fairly knowledgable...you'll likely get an invite from someone.
For women those criteria are reduced.
That takes a fair amount of activity on the main public sub to determine.
You can also make a request, and sometimes we'll put it to a vote if we're on the fence about someone.
It's meant to be a space free from drama, for those put off by that. And with less ego and exposure.
Gotcha, all good.
Hey, you need to learn to J curve!
I was exactly as frustrated as you.
The J curve is a path of the assamblage point Carlos showed on private classes, to reach heightened awareness.
Darkroom practice will teach you that.
But unless you achieve it, don't expect to learn any sorcery at all.
Now it makes sense to me why most of the sorcery explanations were given in heightened awareness, to all apprentices.
It is not hard at all!
Just give it enough time, and your assamblage point will move.
Let's say it is "learning to get silent". Truly inner silence.
And you will get the first goodies of the sorcery path: bliss, equanimity and seeing energy.
Of course it is just like a "starting point".
But then, having the energy that daily moving the assamblage point liberates, you will realize how to apply most of Don Juan advices.
I am now trying to bring the double out. But here we do it without going to sleep, with waking dreaming.
I get to a point were my walls have the whitish energy, and places appear there. The other day it was a city seen from 100 meters of high.
I could really see the houses one by one, and they were stable.
By that point I also had 3d ghosts walking around me. You will get used to that too.
Dan is now switching bodies daily, so it is clearly working.
100 meters is 109.36 yards
I will never leave my lovely meters.
Good bot lol
So.... I hear you, I've seen the J curve image, and been 'using' it to help guide, but still... maybe for me it's getting down to some VERY specific details, so if you don't mind...
My questions
OR, am I staring into the purple puffs and colors to see things manifest INSIDE the color, with the 'real world' still visible around the edges of my perhiperhal vision.
Does that make sense? Do I want to completely 'color' my vision, so i'm not seeing the real world? Or am I allowing the real world (my bedroom) along the edges, while seeing for example, the city you saw? When you saw that city, could you still see your bedroom?
I'm asking, obviously, because i've always come in through the back door (ahem), so any experiences have been with my physical body's eyes closed.
I'm trying to ascertain literally what my eyes are supposed to see.
2) Related: do you cross your eyes? I remember DJ talking about crossing them slightly. No question when I do that, I see more colors, squiggles. But if I'm being honest, I can make those colors appears by rubbing my eyeballs to. How do you differentiate colors that appears from 'straining/sweeping/crossing' the eyes, vs. colors from the second attention. This is a huge question for me, eye position.
Part of me seems to get great results when I cross, roll, and strain my eyes. Another part of me says it shouldn't be like that, nothing should be 'forced', and that a relaxed, gentle gaze is proper sorcery.
3) Again, related to eyes, and specifics: about how far 'deep' do you tend to focus? Like if there is a wall across the way, do you focus ON the wall, or do you focus sorta right in front of you, or somewhere in between? I was having decent lights and puffs when I was coursed about 2/3 of the way to the wall.
4) One more: I written several times about my shapeshifting experience. This was a major guiding experience for me. One thing I remember is that my eyes were 'higher', about two inches up, and and about an inch closer to each ear. I was 'seeing' from there. I call it Tiger Eyes now, and it's that same peripheral vision that DJ and CC would try to engage when walking in the desert. I grew up walking long stretches of beach and I truly believe it has helped with sorcery. I walked those beaches for years. I engage 'Tiger Eyes' - ie a sorta peripheral vision - with inner silence - when Darkroom Gazing. When I deep enough, maybe after an hour, I will sometimes feel like I have 'two' rings of eyes: the pupil, and the ring around it. It feels almost like I can PUSH with the outer ring of my eye, while PULLING with the inner pupil, creating a depth of dimension between the two. And in that space, I see squiggles. Almost like those MAGIC EYE Books, where something magical materializes, if you remember them.
Do you do you any kind of push/pull with your eyes?
We are not "looking for something" in them; just observe what they show.
I usually need 2 hours to have the "crystalline puffs", wich are the ones with things inside. Like squares or objects.
At that point you can have the puffs in the hands and move them as real objects, but you still need to follow them with your gaze.
Carlos described "anything that shouldn't be there, but yet is perceived is the second attention".
My guess is that both colors you see are second attention stuff. You are not giving them the time to become more real, or still didn't manage enough silence level.
If crossing the eyes gives you results, just do it. I used to recommend doing whatever weird you imagine, like moving around the room, to make the colors brighter.
Of course it is pure darkness, but at some point you start seeing your body and the room (made of second attention).
Also look for some yellowish lights that appear on the hands!
When I try to see energy on the horizon, I gaze to the wall of my room.
And the IOBs are usually flying or walking anywhere.
When I reach heightened awareness my gaze turns much more periferical, even if I am looking at something specific.
Also the breath change is something you will notice. It turns to automatic and with the stomach.
...
My guess, according to your questions, is that you are focusing too much on procedures.
If you force a good internal silence you don't even have to worry about what you are doing.
Silence allows you to move through the different stages of the colors.
When you can see animated dreams on the puffs you are probably veryy close to the goal.
This is a very great general guide Dan did:
I like this analogy:
Imagine you are entering in a dense jungle you don't know.
Each time you practice you go deeper, but you move slow because you just have your hands to create a way.
At first you won't even know if you are entering the jungle, or just staying there.
But once you manage to enter the first steps, you will move easier and easier.
Until you probably find some path one of us already did, and you can join it.
Or you will find your own way.
The J curve is LITERALLY a linear path in wich you move.
Sometimes I can do it in 30 minits, or sometimes it can take 5 hours.
But once you are at the end, you can hold heightened awareness for the rest of the day.
And it is the most amazing thing I've ever experienced!
The goal is to clean the link to intent. It's in the Silent Knowledge publication. The last instructions of Carlos. Intent will give us further instructions (and does!).
The puffery is just so that you can't lie to yourself about getting rid of the internal dialogue, and you get to see what real magic looks like, versus pretending.
If you want to bring the double out on demand, by the fastest path possible, you need to learn to manifest little dream windows floating in the room around you, and enter them as you wish.
It's an extreme position of the assemblage point, to get those to be visible. Entering them requires the use of the double.
Now, then there's women...
Cholita's double is both solid and fully visible, and yet can pass through walls.
She skipped the normal processes to learn it.
But here's the fastest way to the double that I know of:
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/jt41jy/fancys_new_game_in_and_out/
Of course, you can bring the double out with any of the sorcery techniques.
It comes out in recapitulation, chair silence, and in Tensegrity.
In recap, most likely first occurrence is that you believe you fell asleep and find yourself somewhere else in the house.
In chair silence, you'll step out of yourself into the room.
In Tensegrity, you're likely to notice an extra limb first, or that you are leaning at an impossible angle.
And then of course 4 gates dreaming, but no one has ever succeeded by that path, because there are endless opportunities to deceive yourself.
I think Carlos only wanted us to get some dark energy using that method. I doubt he expected that to be a reasonable path to the double. Waking dreaming gets you to that far faster.
As we can see in Taisha's last book.
There's also the finger wiggling thing. The more you wiggle, the more visible the second attention energy body (the double) becomes.
It starts with that feeling that you are tickling yourself, the way Carlos felt that.
Could you please reference the finger wagging method? In my reading, reading, reading I know I stumbled upon it, but do not remember where.
Since I am a woman, I am wondering if you know what path to the double Cholita did take. Thank in, I have been away over 20 years too, and did more dreaming than gazing. Never did bring out the double at will, only 3 times that I know of, totally by accident or luck, trying to figure the fastest path too.
Cholita got there with Tensegrity.
I'm sure she did recap too, since she was under the control of the witches.
Finger wiggling is AMAZING!
But only once you can visually see it.
Take your finger, and put it between your belly button, and the top of your crotch.
Move it straight out from there, parallel to the ground, 18-24 inches. Where you can comfortably reach without strain, but within that range.
Now move it right 4 inches.
Wiggle the fingers of both hands there, on that spot. Like playing a harp.
When it becomes visible, you can better position the fingers. It's not that you'll see a big X marks the spot. You'll just notice you get weird yellow flickers of bright light, as you wiggle over the right spot.
Sometimes, I just wiggle everything near there into the spot, and towards my stomach.
Remember this! You do something, and it's a dud.
Doesn't work. A big disappointment.
But if Carlos or the witches wrote that it works, it will work.
It just doesn't react at the normal speeds. Because if it did, we'd all know about it.
For example, if you see your inorganic being as a floating head, but very dim, you can blow energy into her.
But it doesn't instantly brighten when you blow. We only expect that, because you can blow on glowing coal, to make it get bright.
There's a big delay. So just keep blowing until you see it. That's the best way.
And don't forget, Carlos wiggled his fingers 200-800 hours, if you read the books carefully.
The luminous body of the second attention becomes visible by that technique.
But, you can also feel things there. Just as Zuleica said, you will feel things, "as thick as water".
But, more like cobwebs, than like a beam of water thickness.
And the jackpot! You wiggle there, and you feel a tickle on the side of your body. As if they were connected.
That's amazing to feel, because it repeats over and over. Not on every wiggle. But certainly, every 20 seconds if you keep it up.
If you get good at "seeing", you'll find that the easiest part to see of the energy body, is dark.
Not light.
But that's because you're just starting out, and it's "submerged".
And, being a woman, ignore everything I just said, and do as you will.
Cholita's been ignoring me for 24 years, and it worked out great for her.
Thanks for this, I'll be trying the fingers wiggle tonight. As much as the description of the wiggle, I appreciate the remember this!
That’s really weird, I was doing it just now, I didn’t feel the thickness you spoke of or cobweb feeling, but I did feel my finger tickling myself even though it was nowhere near my side. But it was not every 20 seconds it was constant as I tickled that spot. And it currently still tickles a bit, that is really strange. I didn’t see anything though. But it is an interesting experiment to continue in the future when I have more time. It was just an experiment that I decided to try based on what you said while also not taking it too much to heart so that there was no expectation or intent and blamo. I believe I got that little trick from you too. I’ve been a lurker here just reading things and you pop up so much so all I know is I thought highly of whatever you said. So when you offered an experiment I felt called to attempt it and was thoroughly surprised. You have my respect man, you’re too cool.
Woah woah woah, I just did it right now again just because I wanted to tickle myself again and I saw like a sort of pulse come out of my finger, that or a tentacle coming towards it. WOAH!
Dude, is it coming out of the finger? It looks like whatever it is, is slowly coming out of my finger. It’s like an energy form slowly growing and manifesting itself, that’s so cool, thank you.
So you are sensitive about that. Here's the important part: it takes an awful lot of wiggling to bring out the energy body. 200-800 hours for Carlos, and he was given the "Nagual's Blow" to push his assemblage point all the way to the end of the J curve.
We don't start out there, the way he did. So we just use the finger wiggling as one of many techniques you can do in the dark room, including Tensegrity, to move along the J curve.
Meaning, don't expect to finish that technique. What we're trying to learn is 1000 times more difficult than learning to juggle well. But our expectations from our normal lives, is that juggling is about as difficult as learning can get.
Trust me. It's not.
Yes, those flashes come from the hand. But the best way to see those, is with the "doorknob claw" technique. It's in here somewhere. But it's mentioned in the books a few times.
The hand has a few "tentacles". I supposed you could call them that. But they aren't strong enough to be useful for much.
Except for us! We use them to move the assemblage point. They're plenty strong enough for that.
You can also learn to touch things with the ones that come from the little fingers.
Probably they all come from the middle of the palm originally. But coming from our physical body isn't actually what's going on, so trying to locate their "origin" is misguided. Just be happy to see them.
I was just happy to see it, quickly forgot about trying to figure it all out and just experienced.
Going to have to try in a darker setting, I was only in partial darkness, maybe that’s where I messed up.
Partial darkness is great if you can pull it off!
Someone asked about it nearly a year ago, so I tried it.
I could do darkroom gazing that way. I just didn't like it much.
Juan made it work in daylight.
Here's a related comment I posted elsewhere. From last night. I do magic regularly on demand, for hours each night. Too many things to write about even a fraction. In this case, my double was teaching me. The comment is about a statement Carlos made to me, in waking draming. He said, "Look for the overall darkness". But I'd reported it wrong to someone else, as "outer darkness".
***
I thought I had that wrong... But couldn't find the post. I finally did, and it's in the illustrated section.
Too much bible study I suppose, caused me to use the Jewish term for endless darkness.
And overall darkness makes sense. Outer darkness does not.
Last night, my double tried to teach me how to bring out the double.
It was bizarre! It turns out, the double is willing to help the Tonal.
The technique was kind of impossible to teach, but essentially you look for the overall darkness in the room, and find a trail of bright purple, smearing across the room.
It needs to be horizontal purple, being swallowed up by the overall darkness. The overall darkness presses on it, until it puffs up like a long continuous 3D cloud, lit by a brilliant purple sun.
As the overall darkness presses hard on the band of purple, it splits down the middle. A crack forms.
Jet black human shapes emerge. Like black flat clouds in the shape of man, with each one walking along the path of the purple. Through a jet black passage that's been broken down the middle.
And each gets more and more real as it steps along.
As they get realer, they get more frightening, which causes the assemblage point to shift to some very creepy location at the end of the J curve. You can feel "intent bliss", but it's almost painful.
They descend to the floor and one of them fully forms into the double. It just sort of "lands", and blooms to full realness.
I suppose you could call it, "The March of the Double".
If I ever see it again, I'll write it up.
But the most significant thing is, the double will teach you!
So far, just how to get more of him.
Not practical magic, such as Fancy teaches.
"It needs to be horizontal purple, being swallowed up by the overall darkness. The overall darkness presses on it, until it puffs up like a long continuous 3D cloud, lit by a brilliant purple sun."
I've seen this band, can I ask when you say:
"As the overall darkness presses hard on the band of purple, it splits down the middle. "
Do you mean down the middle like it a vertical slice, or down the middle longways, a horizontal slice.
"A crack forms."
Is this crack horizontal or vertical? I have seen a vertical one.
"Jet black human shapes emerge."
Yes... they seem to come straight at me? Like one after the other? Coming towards the screen (if this were a movie)? And then they whooshing past me either to the left or right...
"They descend to the floor and one of them fully forms into the double. It just sort of "lands", and blooms to full realness."
And then what? Does your awareness 'switch' over the double?
Or do you stare at the double and it teaches you?
I guess in the same vein - is the double the same thing as when I'm wrapped up tight like a cigar and roll out of my body? Or is that my energy body?
I'm excited to try this technique tonight, thank you.
Horizontally. The result is 3 bands. A purple on top, and on the bottom, with black in the middle.
The bands of purple and black are around 3 inches thick each. A little like this:
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
.......................................................................................
.......................................................................................
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
Of course, there's jet black in the rest of the room, but the bands move up close to the eyes, so you can watch the double emerge.
No more than 8 inches from the eyes. It's a closeup.
PPP....PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPP....PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
.......................................................................................
.......................................................................................
PPP....PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPP....PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
Man walking in.
When the man falls to the ground and materializes into the double, it's more like he leaps out of the right side, and grows as he gets closer to the ground.
I think there was something similar in the books, but can't recall where. Perhaps don Genaro demonstrated it.
But I really doubt reading about this can help.
You have to be very near to silent knowledge before this works.
And if you get close to that, you won't be caring about the double.
There's too much to do.
Sorry, missed the rest.
No, the rolled up thing is the energy body, not the double.
Don't ask me what's the difference. I don't really know.
Cholita is a good example.
In the daytime, if she ODs on shopping she relaxes, and if I add a tiny bit of energy to her, I can see the energy body.
Looks like a weird alien blob with tentacles and fibers all around it.
But at night, her double comes into my room.
I could be looking at my own tentacles, and still see that.
At least, I believe I could.
Next time she shows up, I'll try to verify I can still see my own energy body.
While we're at it, how the heck do the IOBs project themselves in front of us?
Little Smoke and Devil's Weed come from the center of the universe!
What exactly is projected here?
And our second attention energy body is right there. Inside us. The assemblage point is just over the right side of the stomach.
If it's the same as the "double", then the double is inside us.
But when you roll up like a cigar, your "us" is inside the energy body.
Very confusing...
Carlos left us with so many unanswered questions, we'll need 50 skilled seers just go start to get a handle on it.
And I'd like to take another shot at that Eagle thing. Eagle, Beagle, what's the diff?
How about a giant fairy instead? That would be a lot more fun.
An angry one.
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