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Where do we stand on weed?
Shifting Perception
Another 2 hour dark room gazing session last night. Reached colors, puffs, etc. The fell asleep. My fucking curse. I can't quite push past the fireworks of color-->to reach the energy body. Only way I continue to reach the energy body and roll out of myself is by falling asleep first. That's what made me walk away from my practice before (could not do waking dreaming). However, this time, I'm literally not stopping my practice ever again, until I fill in the missing pieces. And I'm wiling to be open minded on aids, such as masks, totems, and drugs.
So my question:
I've seen a few commenters mention weed here and there. Is this helpful? A hinderance? There are references to 'smoke' all over the books, and Devil's Weed, but I assume that is a different herb, not mairjuana.
Does weed help enter the second attention? When that initial high comes on IS THAT the 2nd attention? Does weed help or hinder darkroom gazing?
I smoke plenty for decades, but I practice both clear-headed and high. I've never noticed much of a difference in my results: silence is silence. But I'm wondering what other people's experiences have been? Given the legalization taking place across the U.S. and other countries, weed is going to be completely accessible to everyone, if it isn't already.
If DJ would have CC enter the second attention before Zuleica's dreaming teachings in order to 'speed up' his learning, would using weed to enter the 2nd attention 'speed up' things for us?
P.S I'm not looking for shortcuts, I'm looking for results, and weed has been very useful in helping me increase my awareness. We don't have a Nagual to slap us on the back. We do have vapes though, and certainly feels like smoking weed moves the AP...
Anyone have thoughts on this?
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Yes I’ve used weed for sorcery endeavours but it comes at a price.
I think for starters it uses it’s own power as a boost to your power and that in time definitely drains you.
Plus cannabis is a female spirit who is very possessive, that alone drains you.
Apart from that it can most certainly move the assemblage point all on its own, quiet the inner dialogue and stop the world.
Never tried it with dark room practices could be interesting!
Yes, that is pretty much on point with my experiences on weed: can move the AP, help quiet the dialogue.
And yet...
Never succeeded at entering dreaming using darkroom gazing, and I smoke plenty. Was wondering if that's holding me back.
Based on the answers here though, I haven't heard anyone say, "Yes! It absolutely facilities moving the AP and reaching second attention."
If you mess around with it (weed and darkroom), I'd be curious your experiences.
It can be truly transformative, informative and wild.
This technique as described by McKenna works well.
Though if one smokes daily, it can shift one's awareness 'off to the side'. I feel like I'm walking sideways on a slope most of the time for those periods.
Meanwhile, in small amounts it does calm any savagery, frustration and expand awareness.
It's been my experience to STFA from dabs and waxes. They are as so much 'Orange Juice from concentrate.' Dunnea care for the feeling nor the angle of perceptions allowed.
Stick with flower and pay attention to the strain and how it affects one, both during of and day after, two sides of same coin.
You mentioned vape. I question the alternate counterparts of such actions. Look for whole ingredients of natural formation. Also, again - seek that extruded from a single strain for best observational porpoises.
"best observational porpoises."
Damn, that's some good shit if you're observing porpoises after smoking ; )
Great link, thanks! Really enjoyed that. McKenna's talk on DMT was a huge eye opener for me, though I never actually did DMT, my best friend did and we listened to that several times.
I'm specifically wondering if anyone has used weed in darkroom practice? And whether it hinders, helps, or doesn't really make a difference. I'm with you too on keeping things 'pure', and yes, paying attention to the strains is so key!
I always feel sorry for the guy, when I hear McKenna speak.
One thing is obvious. He was too lazy to learn to get silent, or he might have done people some good using his fame.
Instead, he harmed them with impotent techniques that lead nowhere useful.
The path of the sorcerers of ancient Mexico is a very long path. And if you want to travel it, you can't divert your attention with other things.
You literally CAN'T. Or intent will push you down a different road, one that possibly goes off a cliff.
A few hallucinations are no more important than vivid dreams, or fever visions.
Here's the path to full sorcery knowledge, as achieved by the Mexican sorcerers.
Colors -> puffs -> swirling jet black streaks -> visible Tensegrity -> Spirit teachers -> Second Attention Fog -> Crystalline dreaming fog -> whitish light on the walls -> Assemble another world on walls (translocate) -> manifest dreams in the air -> Silent Knowledge -> Abstract dreaming foam -> Re-runs -> Visits to Cyclic being worlds -> The double -> Turn your inorganic being solid the way Vicente's or don Juan's were.
McKenna never got past Crystalline dreaming fog, and was clueless there was even a path past that. And he never learned to get instruction from spirits.
Lazy is what he was.
He should be known as the "prince of ineffective shortcuts", dwelling in the shadow of Carlos.
Dan -
Can I ask what you mean by step 4 --> Visible Tensegrity?
Does this mean, I will see an IOB doing Tensegrity? Or my body double?
Or do you mean, if I"m doing Tensergrity, I will see color trails, and white light emanating from my limbs?
Or is it neither?
I did dreaming like that one time, and one time only, after taking some Cleargreen classes, I laid down to practice one night, I had the colors, and fell asleep as usual (fail)... but this was one of my many 'lucky sessions' and I woke up in blackness moments later, and in the middle of my view was an 'energy body' type of guy, looked like a thermal imprint from Predator, very clearly doing Tensegrity. It was just his form against all black. I wasn't in a 'realm'. Is that what you mean by visible Tensegrity?
If not, can you explain what 'visible' tensegrity is?
Don't you read around in here? The questions you asked are all answered.
A lot don't like to look around, so it's not uncommon.
Here's some visible Tensegrity. You should be seeing FIREWORKS while doing it. IOBs too, they like to ride on your hand to give you a "power assist".
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/jd445c/advanced_tensegrity_post_for_small_formats/
Carlos was taunting us with visible tensegrity at the end. This pass is particularly interesting. You can manifest "dead people". Although I think Carlos had a giant bunny rabbit in mind when he demonstrated it for us:
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/gvb3v4/pandoras_box_pass_how_to_manifest_things/
This is my favorite!!! It's exactly as I saw it, and repeated a couple of times.
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/gjqema/manifesting_tensegrity_collectables/
The phrase "Visible Tensegrity" does not show up in a search of the sub, which I ran before posting my query.
Thanks for the links.
Yea, the search sucks. Techno found some alternatives, they might be mentioned on the side along with the wiki.
There's a LOT of visible tensegrity pics in here. I keep hoping they'll shame cleargreen into putting in the time to learn to get silent.
It's rather sad if you think about it. Carlos did his best to clue us in, but for some reason he wanted us to discover it becomes visible, by ourselves.
His passes entice us, tease us, but he never just says it.
It could be, he was trying to let a power structure form by itself, so it could be sustained after he was gone.
And it never did.
One of my favorite "obvious taunting" moves is the "Gift to Maui" pass, where you form a ball of light by gazing at the floor, then move it up to the center in front of you, and then up into the air.
The dreaming double LOVES that technique. If, it becomes visible to you.
Not so much, if you're just pretending.
What is the difference between colors and puffs? I thought the colors were the puffs.
"Colors" is used to allow people to see whatever.
Zuleica used this word.
Once you say, "puffs", you have summoned intent.
If you say colors, we might get a new guy in here, who sees plaid.
Or even Paisley.
But generally, seeing purple puffs is the most common thing. Even children see those, which eventually turn into "the whorl" for them.
"Puffs" are inspired by Tensegrity. A lot of it is designed to manipulate that shape.
McKenna documenting his interactions with spirits and how he learned non-verbal communication from them is quite interesting.
Can you copy some passages?
I do that nightly, as does Juan and Cholita. Verbally, non-verbally, visually, physically. They become teachers if you give them a chance.
No drugs involved, no sleeping. Fully awake.
I can easily teach you. And then maybe you'll see, McKenna was not a good person to be imitating.
I first learned about Carlos hanging out with anthropologists back in the 60s.
They were studying (partly), Ruby Modesto, out at Morongo. Also John, the devil's weed sorcerer.
https://www.amazon.com/Not-Innocent-Ears-Spiritual-Traditions/dp/0960446206
Ruby scared the bejesus out of me. But the little house she lived in was where I had to hang out, when I was there. My father spent hours and hours at a time there, because of the printing press and museum.
Ruby was far more advanced than McKenna, being the tribal shamaness.
And she also did not learn to visually see her spirits. Or to summon them without drugs.
It was a tragedy if you ask me. She summoned them using Devil's Weed tea, could talk to them, was friends with them, but she never learned to physically interact with them, in the real world. Awake, without drugs.
So when I say it was a tragedy for her, that applies doubly to McKenna who decided to profit from it.
Except he was famous, so people get a little miffed when I say it.
Myself, I think he's a bad figure in the Castaneda world. Holding it back while cashing in on it.
And no one cares when I say it was a tragedy for Ruby.
There were some interesting characters there at Morongo. I get a little paranoid when I try to figure out who I was hanging out with at 9 years old.
That was around when Carlos showed up there, with Joanie Baker.
I suspect my father had an affair with her too. But it was so long ago, there's no way to find out.
There were anthropologist female groupies back then.
I don't have McKenna's book at the moment, but he has talked about this before. Non-linguistic and infinite communications with no physical conditioning.
I'm inclined to admire McKenna for spreading a message of mysticism and philosophy to large audiences, although that doesn't mean he was an advanced magic practitioner. Yet, I heard a video a long time ago where he spoke about how advanced lucid dreamers are able to have full-fledged DMT trips endogenously and how this was the goal of spirituality: getting to these states without having to rely on drugs.
As for me, I've only had under a dozen lucid dreams, and a good deal of them involved Thelemic-style pentagram rituals. I already naturally have colors in my visual snow. I'm planning on reading Don Juan soon and maybe I would like some advice in this system.
Yea, that was indeed the goal of the hippy movement.
Get high without the drugs.
Carlos was the king of that movement. Half of it in fact.
Maharishi was the other half. I suppose it was a schizophrenic movement.
McKenna was a product of those forces, so naturally he'd say what all of the discerning hippies would say.
It wasn't really to his credit to say that. It was just what people back then said, to justify eating mushrooms.
As far as I know, Castaneda's students are the only ones who actually achieved it.
The hippies all ran for congress, and forgot their goal.
But take a look at my post today.
That was a "bad night".
And after Cholita threatened to beat me up several times.
So it was a double bad night. But it worked out well anyway.
It put any Dzogchen master I know of, to absolute shame.
No drugs involved at all.
Just shut off the little voice in your head, while in the dark, and look for the monsters under the bed, the way you did as a child. Or the swirling colors on the ceiling. Or the dreams on the wall.
Children see it all, but the parents tell them, it's just a dream. Just your imagination. They aren't real.
Turns out, they are in fact very real. And the basis of the world's religions.
All of them.
Keep in mind, the first 4 books are a response to Carlos being an anthropologist. So they're kind of loopy.
100% trick in the first ones.
Also keep in mind, Devil's Weed and Little Smoke are with this subreddit. Carlos left them to us.
So watch for their antics. All of the cool stuff in there, is one or the other of them. Even "death" as a little dot, or the "moth" swooping over the fire.
Darkroom gazing is merely "finding your spot", from the first book.
Sorcery is very hard. No one in their right mind will learn it.
So don Juan taught him what he asked to learn, how shamans use power plants, instead of the real thing. The real thing is, how to do it yourself using silence.
Meanwhile, don Juan shifted him into real sorcery directly, using his own energy. But in he first books, he can't recall that.
It's a common problem in here too, remembering what you succeeded at doing.
But "the real thing" is in here for sure. It's proven by multiple people. No one wants your money, so you don't have to be suspicious of motives.
The only motive in here is like a Hong Kong 1970s kungfu movie.
"You killed my master!!!"
Except in here, the motive is, "Our master died!!! We must pass on the kung fu knowledge."
It's in the wiki.
It just requires too much time to learn, so people pretend they learned, rather than put in the time needed.
When they see this place, they come in to try to stop it, because it makes their pretending feel bad.
If you follow instructions, you'll be unique in the world of meditation. You'll be beyond Yogananda, Muktananda, the highest Daoist master alive, and whatever else you can find.
And pretty much alone.
< 50mg edibles and you won't destroy darkroom gazing.
> 50mg and your power will suffer greatly. You probalby won't even be able to get past the dreaming fog.
And you need to remember that, because you'll have "bad days", and not remember it's because you had too much THC.
Smoking is better than edibles, because it wears off faster.
It needs to wear off before dark room gazing, or you cheat yourself horribly.
> 3 glasses of wine, not good, but not fatal.
Nicotine is helpful.
Caffeine is very helpful.
THC as a path? Nope.
Don't be the lemming at the end of the line, who doesn't notice the others have all gone off a cliff.
It's good for seeing hypnogogic images, but won't get you much further. And the images are fixed inside a matrix. Not very useful.
If it could teach sorcery, we'd see lots of rosecrucians and rostafarians who know how to do real magic.
And they have none as far as I can tell. Lots of delusions. But I don't see any reliable magic being done over there.
Thanks, that's kinda been my experience.
And this:
"If it could teach sorcery, we'd see lots of rosecrucians and rostafarians who know how to do real magic..."
Is a helluva good point. Really made me think. (just saying 'good point', not looking to wine and dine and 69 you).
What do you mean by the hypnogogic images being fixed inside a matrix?
Typical marijuana hypnogogic images start with patterns on the ceiling, or floating just above you, in the form of matrixes of shapes.
Faces would be an unusual thing, but not completely uncommon.
Marijuana isn't very effective in shutting off the internal dialogue, the way shrooms can do.
So I suppose, it causes lateral shifts instead of huge drops in depth.
You feel like, "yourself".
But it shifts left. Into "sublime" territories.
Sublime territories are heavenly. Highly decorated.
But of course, you could see anything, depending on other factors such as your health, or whether you got into a hassle that day.
It's just not enough movement to teach sorcery.
And it's a distraction that keeps many many people from ever learning.
They follow some drug promoter guy like McKenna, and never get the hunger needed, to follow the instructions Carlos left us.
I wish it was a shortcut. Possibly it could be.
But you'd need a sorcerer to design that.
McKenna was not one.
Didn't seem to even make an effort. He cashed in on Carlos, and thought he was too good to pay attention to the details in his books.
Probably even thought Carlos was a fake.
That’s interesting. When I smoke and start gazing at something, sometimes I start to see color surrounding it. The other day I was in the bath and smoked, and starting seeing bright green surrounding my feet after about 20 minutes of gazing at them. It was very crystal clear and bright. Then when I closed my eyes I was seeing faces. I wonder if it’s the same colors that people see in dark room gazing or if it’s what a new ager would call my “aura”. Or if it was just weed induced hypnagogia like you said.
I agree with you that weed can hinder sorcery though, I do want to cut down on it. For one, it’s almost impossible to do lucid dreaming on it, so I’m sure waking dreaming would be even harder with it
Naturally, everything unusual in sorcery, and drug usage, is caused by a movement of the assemblage point.
And in meditation, religious ecstasy, or any "esoteric technique". You can even starve yourself, or subject yourself to danger and weird experiences, to get the assemblage point to move a little.
Or pray for hours while sitting cross-legged, and swaying back and forth to "please God". Or leaning up against "the wailing wall", wearing acrostic spells on your black hat.
There aren't "different techniques" causing all of this.
You can kind of tell when someone who practices meditation is clueless, despite angry claims otherwise. And meditation practitioners get just as angry as phony sorcerers, when you try to talk honestly to them.
They still haven't realized it's "all the same thing".
They think they're doing something unique. And somehow they just lucked out and found, "the best thing".
Probably you could even use marijuana at least to get someone's assemblage point loose so they understand it's possible that sorcery is true.
Might even make some curious, so they decide to learn.
But it makes you duller, and kills higher level experiences in the dark room.
It's easy to forget you poisoned yourself that way. It can take a while to figure out why you had a "bad day", and then you realize, it's obvious!
It was the 2 young women, the endless drinks served by the 5 waiters who never check IDs, and the 100mg THC candy bars.
Not that I have any experience with that sort of thing...
Cholita won't allow it.
I think devil's weed means datura. It's a deliriant and it's not something you want to mess around with unless you really really know what you're doing.
Yeah, that's why I was wondering about cannabis (Weed as we know it) and whether anyone had experience with it, cuz it definitely didn't seem like what they were smoking in the books. I think you are right about Datura.
I mean it will get you more silent, and i have reached the energy body that way i think.
But ask yourself this: Do you want to be reliant on something to reach it, or do you want to do it by yourself.
So... yes, I did ask myself that question, and truth is, I have no problem reaching into my medicine pouch, taking a puff, and using weed if it truly means it would expedite moving AP on the J curve. Would you?
In re-reading the passage from TEG on Zulecia's dreaming instruction, I came to the part where DJ moved CC into heightened awareness before going in to see Zuleica, because he needed to learn 'faster'. So you can sorta see my thinking... we don't have the Nagual to slap our backs.... so can we use something else?
It's no more of a shortcut to me than relying on the Nagual to put you in the second attention. If, at first, these 'aids' can help a student progress, I'm okay with them. I guess down the road though, you are right, the goal would be not to rely on them and do it yourself.
Also FWIW I've read a bunch of your posts and really like your take on things. I think we have a similar mindset. However, I've complimented someone else in here before and he found it to be 'creepy' so, yeah... take what I'm saying as you will lol. Just happened to notice that a lot of comments I agreed with, you had written them.
If you find substances as a good way to reach silence it is on you. Personally, I myself am about to buy a lot of DMT, since of all drugs DMT is the most efficient one.
Smoking DMT is like smoking pure silence with almost no side-effects. Other drugs like weed, LSD, mushrooms, datura, and others, work too but they have their side-effects which I would not prefer.
Although weed is actually pretty good if you are not able to get DMT.
Also, mushrooms are good for longer effects since DMT is short.
I guess it's just a matter of convenience.
Also we both know that being on subbstaces is basicaly almost the same as beeing in HA, which makes stalking possible for once. With the help of substances you can do actual stalking i public.
Like once I was so high that I was able to shift my AP to a point where i could like jump 1.5 meters up. My friends got soo scared, but then they just pretended like that was just an illusion and i didn't really jump that high. But what happened happened.
there was this other time where i just shifted my AP to be a sectain rapper and i ended up sounding like him and stuff. Basically substances let you actually be in HA with other people around basically, not just when you are alone in you basement darkroomgazing, as what most people here are doing which is fine of course.
The only reason i am not using substances right now is just i don't want the side-effects and i don't want to be reliant on stuff to get me silent.
3 meters is 3.28 yards
> Basically substances let you actually be in HA with other people around basically, not just when you are alone in you basement darkroomgazing, as what most people here are doing which is fine of course.
I love to go for a walk after afternoon darkroom sessions.
I usually walk all around my neighbourhood, and have no problem holding heightened awareness, as soon as I constantly remember to be silent.
When you get to the end of the J curve at practice it is almost easy to hold it later. Dan says the assamblage point doesn't have anywhere else to go.
So I can talk to people while being in the bliss high. You can't help but observe every single detail of their faces!
And almost every tree give you Intent bliss.
Dan even holds heightened awareness to the next day, when going to work; that's awesome. Night makes me an idiot again.
Weed is up to you. That's the whole point
Not good.
Doesn't stop the inner monologue and infact makes it harder to focus on stopping it.
Weed simply breaks your focus, thats what I dont like about it.
ALSO weed can make you extremely horny (in my case at least) which doubles the "losing focus" effect because the everything is amplified on it ( also I am young).