Found this in my old saved files from http://www.hot.ee/tonal/ , an Estonian Language Nagualist site created back in 2001 that's now gone
[-]
u/danl999
7 points2021-07-21 17:47
Cholita drew one too. It's in here somewhere.
Her shore is littered with her own drowned body.
The story of the river of filth leaves some unanswered questions.
If you are an apprentice, it's easy to understand who the sorcerers are that are waiting on the shore to hose you off.
But then the story doesn't seem useful.
If you have to have a lineage to get hosed off, why tell the story?
The story seems to imply, that if ANYONE found their way to the shore, there would be sorcerers willing to hose them off, and introduce them to the outside world.
Which begs the question, how come we haven't met them?
Now where exactly would they appear?
After a spell of darkroom gazing, when you lay down, and seem to find yourself in a dream with mysterious teachers?
Didn't don Juan say, a dream which comes from silence is always real?
And then we have that pesky "ascended masters" idea.
Leigh, from private classes, seemed obsessed with that.
By the way, he really ought to be in here. I don't understand why he's not.
Are the "ascended masters" a story mostly made up, but containing an element of truth?
[-]
u/the-mad-prophet
3 points2021-07-22 03:05
I think there's an element of truth, but the 'Ascended Masters' idea as it exists here gives me /really/ bad vibes. Every person who has told me they had an experience with an Ascended Master described something that sounded waay more like IOBs.
Before lockdowns and before I found this place, I used to meditate on the train in the morning. 50 minutes to the city, so I'd race to get to green zone in 20 so that I could enjoy the hypnagogia and dream scenes.
A presence asked me if I could smell colours. I gave it a try. brought up the idea of each colour in turn and tried to smell it. It worked! Each had a distinctive smell. They then introduced themselves by name.
I saw them regularly for a while after that. And then even though they stopped visiting me I found I could easily return and visit them. I didn't want to bother them, so I'd just practice meditating and intending myself to their location which worked quite well. They taught me some things, techniques that I found useful.
I definitely think they were human. It's hard to explain, but after encountering so many IBs there's just something very different about their energy and behaviour that is way more human-like. They also talked about IBs with me a little, in a way that IBs don't talk about themselves.
Sometimes I'd try to contact them when I hadn't moved my AP far enough. They pointed out that unless I can get to the place where I can smell colours as an indicator, I'm probably not deep enough yet.
One of the last times I saw them I told them that I assumed they had contacted many other people, not just myself, and I asked how many of them they had continuous contact with. They said 'just you, and sometimes one other' which I just found disheartening.
There are sorcerers out there tapping people on the shoulder and it sounds like they nearly always go unnoticed. But on the flip side, it means there really is some help out there if we can get quiet.
Now I know about the red and orange zones, I might try visiting them again and see if being deeper makes a difference.
[-]
u/monkeyguy999
2 points2021-07-22 06:19
Piping in for a second. When I was a teenager really researching and seeking. I put all my intent and will into finding a teacher. I found one or he found me. Woke up, could not remember shit but that I was this dudes student now. He showed up either energetically or via the double in my dorm room to reinforce the relationship of student and teacher.
He could literally yank me into dreaming / out of body when he wanted. forcing me to fall asleep where ever I was. Not sure if that would be akin to the naguals blow or just a trick of dreaming.
Not saying he was a master. But the possibility is there that they exist. Someone who just stays in the double here in this dimension? would they not be immortal?
[-]
u/TechnoMagical_Intent
2 points2021-07-22 13:43
While it is sobering and pragmatic to believe that "there's nothing out there" that's PUBLICALLY comparable; it doesn't mean that there isn't anyone out there.
Just that they're impossible to find through general mainstream methods.
We forget that Carlos was the first one to make all of this VERY public. I heard that there were groups and such that contacted him in the 70's, privately telling him it was a mistake to write anymore of his books because the public couldn't handle it.
He said something to the effect that those who can will...and that for most it would just go in one ear and out the other.
[-]
u/danl999
3 points2021-07-22 14:54
Or they could have been bad players, reacting to that sort of thing for the first time.
To seeing someone else far more powerful than their pretending.
And trying to stop him from ruining their private party.
Analogy: they have a private party with nachos. But it's a small party, and they want more people (women) to come.
Carlos announces a party that's fully catered, with a huge smorgasbord.
Plus nachos and guacamole.
So they go tell him that party will get too big and become dangerous, and he's making a mistake.
Am I right for sure? Who knows.
There's a hint in there of some knowledge I picked up as a kid, visiting actual Indian shamans at reservations.
They were the real thing!
But their magic was pathetic.
Like Maria Sabina. It's hard for me to understand what interested anyone in her, from a magical point of view.
She had imaginary "indian spirit" friends. So what?
And in the tribes of southern California in the late 1960s, some started trying to copy what was in the books of Carlos, claiming that had been their tradition before Carlos came along. And bitterly complaining what a fake Carlos is.
Which created a big mess, if you were trying to understand their shamanism.
You'd go down to a specific tribe, hear someone talk about how many "yards" deep he'd gone with the Devil's Weed, and you'd be excited.
Thinking Carlos wrote the same thing so it verifies his books!
But if you talked to the older tribal shaman, he'd inform you the guy just started that after he read the books of Carlos. And they only brewed the leaves into a tea, to get closed eye visions.
They never did what Carlos wrote.
Fast forward 50 years, and they have young people in the tribe trying to cash in, "teaching" what's in the books of Carlos. All the while putting him down to their students.
There's a term for that in anthropology, but I was 12 back then.
Something about "contamination of your source".
Your source, as bitter as they were back then, wants whatever you are offering them to get them to talk.
They're perfectly willing to tell you what you want to hear.
[-]
u/Basic_Winter98157
0 points2025-09-30 06:26
At what stage do y'all see the river banks ?
[-]
u/TechnoMagical_Intent
3 points2025-09-30 10:58
The "river of shit" analogy...is a metaphor.
An accurate, and disturbing, one. But still a metaphor.
The "river banks" are the concrete perception/experience of another reality. One separate from this one.
Realities which have their own denizens, who experience it with the same material realness that we do this reality.
To them, the way we have come to live in human society (the river of shit) is clearly a "simulation" in every sense of the word.
But human society is NOT the world. Remember this!
[-]
u/Basic_Winter98157
0 points2025-09-30 11:37
Has anyone mapped out the geography there ? Talk to the denizens ? Exchange knowlege perhaps ? What does karlos call that world ?
[-]
u/TechnoMagical_Intent
3 points2025-09-30 13:54
We're not talking about any single reality.
The old sorcerers did the mapping thousands of years ago, and related that there are a minimum of 600, and a maximum of 6,000, "worlds" (depending on the reference) that we have access to that are as complete and "real" as ours (which isn't ultimately real, either!).
[-]
u/Basic_Winter98157
1 points2025-09-30 18:34
I asked because I jumped onto the river banks quite a few times, creating bon fires, collecting flowers etc. I wonder if you're supposed to do that. And what's the next step.
[-]
u/NumerousExtension916
1 points2025-10-01 14:50
Do you have more stupid questions to ask?
Techno can give brilliant answers all day long!
That way, the ones who actually want to work get more information.
You’re not going to get likes here!
Do you think writing “Karlos” with a “K” makes you special?
Do you think it shields you while you attack the Castaneda community?
Is that how you’ll avoid kicking your own ass?
Are you a cute little bunny throwing snowballs at the mountain?
You’re a filthy rat throwing balls of crap into the air!
Do you think they’ll become satellites or that they’ll fall back on your face?
What’s next? Your “strong” religious reply with no room for comments?
Jesus actually fought an IOB.
But you’re fighting your own stupidity, and so far it’s a tie.
Will you press the self-destruction button or keep running naked for a while?
[-]
u/Basic_Winter98157
1 points2025-10-01 19:11
u/NumerousExtension916 Since you like to jump into people's comments without being asked - no one cares what you think you human toilet brush. No one asked so are you done with your idiotic questions ?
I'll write however I want to write and ask whatever the fuck i want you numerousexcreta916.
I don't care what you think any of your past books figures did or did not do. You look like the type to fuck spirits or whatever you call that is in your natural habitat if the river of excreta. And no, I don't mean that metaphorically. Stop stretching your brass neck out and drown in that filth.
[-]
u/NumerousExtension916
1 points2025-10-01 20:06
Is this how you react when someone turns down your invitations to go talk in private? Or are you giving me special treatment? You can keep getting mad, without noticing it’s nothing more than a lateral shift in the blue zone.
16 Comments
Found this in my old saved files from http://www.hot.ee/tonal/ , an Estonian Language Nagualist site created back in 2001 that's now gone
Cholita drew one too. It's in here somewhere.
Her shore is littered with her own drowned body.
The story of the river of filth leaves some unanswered questions.
If you are an apprentice, it's easy to understand who the sorcerers are that are waiting on the shore to hose you off.
But then the story doesn't seem useful.
If you have to have a lineage to get hosed off, why tell the story?
The story seems to imply, that if ANYONE found their way to the shore, there would be sorcerers willing to hose them off, and introduce them to the outside world.
Which begs the question, how come we haven't met them?
Now where exactly would they appear?
After a spell of darkroom gazing, when you lay down, and seem to find yourself in a dream with mysterious teachers?
Didn't don Juan say, a dream which comes from silence is always real?
And then we have that pesky "ascended masters" idea.
Leigh, from private classes, seemed obsessed with that.
By the way, he really ought to be in here. I don't understand why he's not.
Are the "ascended masters" a story mostly made up, but containing an element of truth?
I think there's an element of truth, but the 'Ascended Masters' idea as it exists here gives me /really/ bad vibes. Every person who has told me they had an experience with an Ascended Master described something that sounded waay more like IOBs.
Before lockdowns and before I found this place, I used to meditate on the train in the morning. 50 minutes to the city, so I'd race to get to green zone in 20 so that I could enjoy the hypnagogia and dream scenes.
A presence asked me if I could smell colours. I gave it a try. brought up the idea of each colour in turn and tried to smell it. It worked! Each had a distinctive smell. They then introduced themselves by name.
I saw them regularly for a while after that. And then even though they stopped visiting me I found I could easily return and visit them. I didn't want to bother them, so I'd just practice meditating and intending myself to their location which worked quite well. They taught me some things, techniques that I found useful.
I definitely think they were human. It's hard to explain, but after encountering so many IBs there's just something very different about their energy and behaviour that is way more human-like. They also talked about IBs with me a little, in a way that IBs don't talk about themselves.
Sometimes I'd try to contact them when I hadn't moved my AP far enough. They pointed out that unless I can get to the place where I can smell colours as an indicator, I'm probably not deep enough yet.
One of the last times I saw them I told them that I assumed they had contacted many other people, not just myself, and I asked how many of them they had continuous contact with. They said 'just you, and sometimes one other' which I just found disheartening.
There are sorcerers out there tapping people on the shoulder and it sounds like they nearly always go unnoticed. But on the flip side, it means there really is some help out there if we can get quiet.
Now I know about the red and orange zones, I might try visiting them again and see if being deeper makes a difference.
Piping in for a second. When I was a teenager really researching and seeking. I put all my intent and will into finding a teacher. I found one or he found me. Woke up, could not remember shit but that I was this dudes student now. He showed up either energetically or via the double in my dorm room to reinforce the relationship of student and teacher.
He could literally yank me into dreaming / out of body when he wanted. forcing me to fall asleep where ever I was. Not sure if that would be akin to the naguals blow or just a trick of dreaming.
Not saying he was a master. But the possibility is there that they exist. Someone who just stays in the double here in this dimension? would they not be immortal?
While it is sobering and pragmatic to believe that "there's nothing out there" that's PUBLICALLY comparable; it doesn't mean that there isn't anyone out there.
Just that they're impossible to find through general mainstream methods.
We forget that Carlos was the first one to make all of this VERY public. I heard that there were groups and such that contacted him in the 70's, privately telling him it was a mistake to write anymore of his books because the public couldn't handle it.
He said something to the effect that those who can will...and that for most it would just go in one ear and out the other.
Or they could have been bad players, reacting to that sort of thing for the first time.
To seeing someone else far more powerful than their pretending.
And trying to stop him from ruining their private party.
Analogy: they have a private party with nachos. But it's a small party, and they want more people (women) to come.
Carlos announces a party that's fully catered, with a huge smorgasbord.
Plus nachos and guacamole.
So they go tell him that party will get too big and become dangerous, and he's making a mistake.
Am I right for sure? Who knows.
There's a hint in there of some knowledge I picked up as a kid, visiting actual Indian shamans at reservations.
They were the real thing!
But their magic was pathetic.
Like Maria Sabina. It's hard for me to understand what interested anyone in her, from a magical point of view.
She had imaginary "indian spirit" friends. So what?
And in the tribes of southern California in the late 1960s, some started trying to copy what was in the books of Carlos, claiming that had been their tradition before Carlos came along. And bitterly complaining what a fake Carlos is.
Which created a big mess, if you were trying to understand their shamanism.
You'd go down to a specific tribe, hear someone talk about how many "yards" deep he'd gone with the Devil's Weed, and you'd be excited.
Thinking Carlos wrote the same thing so it verifies his books!
But if you talked to the older tribal shaman, he'd inform you the guy just started that after he read the books of Carlos. And they only brewed the leaves into a tea, to get closed eye visions.
They never did what Carlos wrote.
Fast forward 50 years, and they have young people in the tribe trying to cash in, "teaching" what's in the books of Carlos. All the while putting him down to their students.
There's a term for that in anthropology, but I was 12 back then.
Something about "contamination of your source".
Your source, as bitter as they were back then, wants whatever you are offering them to get them to talk.
They're perfectly willing to tell you what you want to hear.
At what stage do y'all see the river banks ?
The "river of shit" analogy...is a metaphor.
An accurate, and disturbing, one. But still a metaphor.
The "river banks" are the concrete perception/experience of another reality. One separate from this one.
Realities which have their own denizens, who experience it with the same material realness that we do this reality.
To them, the way we have come to live in human society (the river of shit) is clearly a "simulation" in every sense of the word.
But human society is NOT the world. Remember this!
Has anyone mapped out the geography there ? Talk to the denizens ? Exchange knowlege perhaps ? What does karlos call that world ?
We're not talking about any single reality.
The old sorcerers did the mapping thousands of years ago, and related that there are a minimum of 600, and a maximum of 6,000, "worlds" (depending on the reference) that we have access to that are as complete and "real" as ours (which isn't ultimately real, either!).
I asked because I jumped onto the river banks quite a few times, creating bon fires, collecting flowers etc. I wonder if you're supposed to do that. And what's the next step.
Do you have more stupid questions to ask?
Techno can give brilliant answers all day long!
That way, the ones who actually want to work get more information.
You’re not going to get likes here!
Do you think writing “Karlos” with a “K” makes you special?
Do you think it shields you while you attack the Castaneda community?
Is that how you’ll avoid kicking your own ass?
Are you a cute little bunny throwing snowballs at the mountain?
You’re a filthy rat throwing balls of crap into the air!
Do you think they’ll become satellites or that they’ll fall back on your face?
What’s next? Your “strong” religious reply with no room for comments?
Jesus actually fought an IOB.
But you’re fighting your own stupidity, and so far it’s a tie.
Will you press the self-destruction button or keep running naked for a while?
u/NumerousExtension916 Since you like to jump into people's comments without being asked - no one cares what you think you human toilet brush. No one asked so are you done with your idiotic questions ?
I'll write however I want to write and ask whatever the fuck i want you numerousexcreta916.
I don't care what you think any of your past books figures did or did not do. You look like the type to fuck spirits or whatever you call that is in your natural habitat if the river of excreta. And no, I don't mean that metaphorically. Stop stretching your brass neck out and drown in that filth.
Is this how you react when someone turns down your invitations to go talk in private? Or are you giving me special treatment? You can keep getting mad, without noticing it’s nothing more than a lateral shift in the blue zone.
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