Yesterday's pic
I hope I am wrong, but I am afraid that most of you are still not getting out of that circle.
I don't see the kind of excitement that moving the assemblage point generates.
In fact, even the green station generates incredible views with balls of purple energy.
I'm not trying to discourage you, and if it's not your case, ignore it!
But knowing this is an advantage, instead of fooling yourself into thinking you are ahead.
Within that circle is where the Forces of the Ordinary World are strongest.
You really need to be strong and disciplined to get out.
If it were easy, we would see magic everywhere. But that's not the case; people don't discover it even by chance.
Right now, this subreddit is at an energetic peak that it never had.
There are already enough people checking details of the J curve for you to leave your doubts behind.
All you need to do is learn how to get to the red station.
There, the internal dialogue becomes harmless, and large amounts of energy are released.
Enough energy, that you can use to keep moving forward.
You have to trust that you are going to learn, and dedicate the time that is necessary.
Give it the seriousness it deserves, and it will worth it.
38 Comments
Thanks Juann for the post , it's actually really cool.
As practice more of j curving , there's something becoming more clearly for me.
I never seen Blue, but now I see it ( blue and white colors). Next is red color then yellow , green, red again and the last red purple, the blue purple I saw only on the wall.
Believing, we understand more by our own experience more and more, by tuinning AP in different places.
But don't confuse the colors you see, with the J curve picture colors.
Those were just PC paint's palette.
I hadn't learned to use gimp yet.
So green zone has nothing to do with seeing green colors in the dark room, other than unless you get down that far, you are unlikely to see any colors at all.
The cool thing about the colors is, you can make them change.
When they're well formed, such as in blob shape.
If you can old a vivid purple bloc in our hand, then just slide the hand out, expecting it to remain in the air, and you'll pull out a yellow blob.
If you hold the yellow blob in the other hand and ask it to change to green, it will instantly do that.
Except once you've done it!
Then the next time, your anticipation prevents it.
"Clean the link to intent".
That's what we're doing here.
Thanks Dan, I will try it, but don't think I'm that advanced. Something I don't understand about colors and zones. This one is confusing.
Did you associate the colors of the puffs, with the colors on the zones on the J curve?
Yea, like blue puffs, then red is fog then green and yellow puffs, red puffs , red and purple this ones are transparent.
Sometimes red spot floating around and I looked inside there's always something , like forest or something else, white and black or very colorful.
I try do not engage with this one.
So you didn't exactly confuse the colored lines, but maybe a little.
I was worried we needed to add warnings to stuff, to prevent that misunderstanding.
I picked those colors. Completely randomly. Carlos never assigned colors.
However, what else would you call "the shift below" but red, for evil and dangerous?
And you can literally visit hell there!
And blue for boring, safe, but not nurturing. Cold, lonely.
At that point my "PC Paint" pallet was running thin. They only give you 32 colors, and half are darker versions of the bright ones.
So for the second line I had no choice but to pick green.
Green for go. Green for safe.
In fact, the green line is safe for all to play in. Children play in there all night long. It also brings the bliss and fast visions of meditation.
When I got to the orange zone, I was in trouble.
Orange or yellow?
Yellow was no good, didn't look right.
So we got stuck with orange for the HA.
And then I remembered, Carlos had discussed a point further on.
I had to add one to the end, just to indicate, we didn't know everything yet.
And purple seemed really tasty. If you have a choice of candies, purple and red are the most popular choices, regardless of the actual flavor.
Now we know, the purple is "Silent Knowledge".
It's not quite the same as HA.
It's when intent is visible to you, even if you don't yet understand what that means.
Thanks Dan, for the fully explanation, the thing is about last Juann's diagram that AP suppose to move down right in the middle. In my case I feel AP moving down 1 inch on the right side (approximately), and when AP below blades it can move on the left side and down.
So my understanding that if I get 2 minutes of silence AP will move down right in the middle.
The two minutes is a Taisha minimum time guess.
Carlos said 1 minute is the minimum.
But Taisha said 2 minutes to 2 hours, so she was referring to both how long it takes to see puffs, and how long it takes to get to HA.
I hope...
It would be very horrible if someone actually needed 2 hours, just to see a puff.
Time to get out the shroom growers kit (legal in the USA as long as you want them for "scientific research").
Sorcery might be very confusing at first.
You can't understand it as you understand everything else.
So the only way to do it, is getting clarity from the sorcery experience itself.
Wich starts to appear in the Red Station.
The Red Position liberates enough energy, that you can do a lot of wonderful things.
Don Juan told it:
All a ordinary man has to do to learn sorcery is save enough energy to move the assemblage point, and realize the wonders that are out there.
And Lily liked that. Literally. Before I read it too.
She emphasized our best use of darkroom is certainly to go to the end of the J curve, but moving around in between is also useful because it lowers our most basic belief that our normal world is "real", and the moved assemblage point worlds are not real.
You end up with a very flexible assemblage point, maybe even rivaling Silvio Manuel's level of emptiness.
Also, don't go too long without "recharging" unless you want to crash for the night.
When energy is low, find a bright puff or flurry of lights up higher, where we typically don't use our energy. Stick the hand into it and let it drain down, like that fishing technique. Or scoop it and compress it, and add it to one of the 3 pouches. If you can visible see a bright bump of glow there now, seeping down into the body, you are recharged. Don't get greedy, or you'll slide sideways.
Also, we're cleaning our link to intent.
The most stunning cleaning seems to be at the whitish light, with seeing energy.
But that's not as practical for a beginner. It's like Carlos getting slapped into HA, and then not remembering it.
In fact, leaving the blue and green zones is more important for us to learn in the beginning.
We learn to leave them, by no longer being obsessed with their realness. Disbelief in the realness of your perception, coupled with perfect silent, instantly moves the assemblage point somewhere else.
But that's not obvious to a beginner, even when it happens, because we don't have enough energy in the new selection of emanations, to perceive it well.
Yes true. Only heightened awareness puts your feet on the ground.
When you see the "dreaming view" of this reality, you realize it is just a world, between 600 other possible worlds. And treat it as such.
I don't know if it is "not real".
A tangled up version of a real thing, for sure.
We still don't know if you can cancel out solid matter.
I don't really care, but there's evidence both ways in the book.
One place implies the solid matter is from bands of emanations only responsible for organization, but which never contain life.
And another writing of Carlos has don Juan saying we merely "collided" with the intent of this place, and got stuck taking a birth.
So we got associated with the physical matter. But it's not "us".
So far sorcerers haven't figure out how to become "unborn".
They have to complete the process and die.
Amazing.
I still didn't get that level of realization.
When I achieve some automatical silence, I am too enlightened to formulate something like that.
And before that, I can't conceive it.
Is it from the IOBs?
From don Juan, in one of the later writings of Carlos.
I'd been hearing hints at it in private class for years.
"Our definitive journey got interrupted", and such.
But don't forget about "not-being".
There's plenty of room for stuff beyond Zen ranges of knowledge.
Or more accurately, the Olmec were simple minded folks.
Things didn't have to make sense.
They only had to be usable.
Habits.
Everyone underestimates the strength of their habits.
That, and not examining their priorities in the light of one's mortality.
Probably all the introduction that don Juan makes to Carlos in the first books, such as "losing importance", "erasing personal history", "deleting habits", etc. it was just a method for avoiding Carlos' deep lateral shifts.
He wanted him to stay in the middle as much as possible.
Lateral shifts in blue consume a lot of energy. The same energy that sorcerers need for vertical movements.
Maybe we need a better defined "parallel path"?
People with families just don't have the time or a place to do darkroom.
But they can usually find what they need to practice meditation.
We need something with relatively the same burden level as meditation, but which produces the same results as darkroom.
30 minutes I would say, is the longest it can take if we want more people practicing.
Doesn't have to produce ALL of the same effects. And it only needs to make it to the red line.
Because we have enough people doing darkroom, to prove the whole J curve works.
So the "alternate" technique doesn't have to prove anything.
And the red zone is kind of "convincing".
Likely Chair silence could be translated to get you down to the red, without any detours like remote viewing or lucid dreaming.
Some removed from that post I made about "Simple Silence Technique", others emphasized, and all with pictures.
A moderate sized project. Probably about like doing 2 of the normal pictures and posts I do.
But invalid without someone who wants to go that path.
And better if we have several.
"Seated Darkroom"?
We'd have to take suggestions for a while, to make sure this is well thought out.
It could include "consolidation practice" whenever the person can manage a dark place to put the chair, where he could consolidate his closed eye results, with having them open in the dark.
So if the family is at grandmas, he might move the chair into some closet and do what he needs to do, to retrain his closed eyes to be open, but in the dark, and get the same results.
I'm not sure how much work that would take, but Juan went from dark into sunlight!
Same principle.
Or we could make "bathtub darkroom".
Just tell the family you're taking a bath, lock the door, and turn off the lights.
If you have to close your eyes too, fine.
And who can't insist on a half hour in the bath each day?
Wait...
Can you get away with that?
I'm sure the women could, if they insisted they needed it for their nerves.
And the men could just buy a little toy sub, and claim they'd gone nuts and needed to play toy submarine each day.
First suggestions:
It should define tensegrity moves you can do in the chair, which are suitable. For scooping puffs, and building the energy body.
Should it be with mask on, so you can have your eyes open anyway? Or make that their choice?
And a comment: If we did that, we'd be designing a technique that didn't come from Carlos. We have to be very careful to justify any part of it, so that it properly connects to the intent of the ancient seers.
Lily showed me why that's absolutely necessary and true last night, but it's lost.
All I remember is, "Oh, so THAT'S why!"
But it was a "THAT" in the abstract. Could only be witnessed perhaps.
I think we still can't afford the 30 minits people.
The first months I needed the hole 3 hours, just to get to the red.
But I couldn't manage to hold it, because I started fantasying.
Now I believe all the first books, were the methods Don Juan used for getting Carlos to the middle of the J curve.
Deep lateral shifts of ordinary world eat all the energy needed for vertical shifts.
I would be more inclined to promote long fights against the internal dialogue.
We don't even know how deep are the lateral shifts people have right now.
30 minutes would only tickle their assemblage point.
And if that amount of time were enough, there would be some sorcerers...
Here is the only account of people practicing +3hs.
Probably the best we can do is just add a step before scooping colors, and try to make it the one "Complete Path", for everyone.
With 30 minutes of absolutely forcing silence, you can end up with fast little dreams as you nod off. That can turn into solid light you see with your eyes closed.
But only if you force hard the entire 30 minutes.
If you mostly fantasize, it wouldn't even be enough time to produce that effect.
And, a bunch of failures in here would obscure the successes.
So you might be right.
I know a woman who is a malicious gossip.
Anything she hears she tries to use it to help her power in her social circle.
Often she gets things delusionally wrong, and passes around a completely false rumor.
Especially when it comes to money. She'll decide that so and so is about to be fabulously wealthy, and tell all her friends.
When that doesn't happen, she doesn't correct her rumor.
She creates a new rumor to protect herself. That the person she was gossiping about is a big liar, and told her something that wasn't true.
She always does harm one way or the other.
Maybe that's how failures would be in here.
The failed person would blame the subreddit's advice.
I really wish it were like that for everyone!
But a newbie can't stop the fantasies.
They are out of control, all the time.
He is the fantasies.
I still have problems with them, specially when I skip a day!
We have to be prepared for the worst.
Well. Let's just wait and see if intent comes up with an alternative.
Could also be, we just haven't discovered the right place to go recruiting and could find some 3 hours folks.
We could wait for a guru to get close to death, and pay him for each student he can find who will do the 3 hours!
Except... After he's dead, he doesn't need the money.
And how often to gurus die?
How about Sadhguru!
Maybe he's near death.
I could ask him.
When you talk about fantasies, are you reffering to imagination going wild on personal interest or the random images poping up ? (newbie here).
Fantasies from the internal dialogue.
Like thinking about who you are going to tell something, what someone would think, what would happen if...
All that has to be gone.
If you dedicate just a bit of attention to it, the assemblage point moves in that direction.
And they are wild at the ordinary position, so double discipline is needed. You can forget it every 5 minits!
huh... I do that refocus thing that instantly puts me in the beginning of second attention or something else not sure. It moves the AP in any case.
Can see your hands starting as shadows when you slowly move them in front of your face. In the dark or with eyes closed. Can do it in light as well but you have to purposely use the red you see looking through your eye lids. Then focusing on the hands you can see them in detail. I personally love the red and white that comes out of the pores and look like snowflakes under a magnifying glass. ..then start looking about. At most this takes 30 minutes. usually a lot less.
But I have no idea how to teach it. I can describe what it feels like in relation to something else.
I like to put my head under the water in the tub (eyes closed)with the faucet running and then refocus to watch the vibration? of the forceful water and how it spreads. Looks like a science class dye experiment.
No idea if any of this is of use to other people.
Try the door knob claw. As don Juan said, it's how you find the lines in the hands.
And in fact, they become visible if you just keep it up, and can see them moving at all (as a shadow).
In fact, I'll dare to say that the reason we "scoop" puffs, is because those lines in the hands can make them stronger.
Like Borg injection tubes. You inject the puffs of color, and assimilate them on your torso.
If anyone gets an ally that looks like 7 of 9, I'll swap you for Minx.
[deleted]
I am sure I can speak for many lurkers here:
Although I don’t actively participate in the discussions within this sub, I am actively reading and am applying the methodologies that you guys are sharing. This sub sparked new interest in me, as it’s highly practical (finally).
Already got my blackout curtains and started to practice DRG (although for 1-2 hours only as I tend to fall asleep) almost every night. I stopped smoking weed regularly as well. As a side effect my rate of lucid dreams went up and I started to kinda “dream” while I meditate. Not sure if it means anything but regardless that’s a huge progress for me personally. My experience so far was 15mins daily meditation and once in a while mushroom trips (and no LDa at all).
Routine/9-5 is a bitch of course and in the context of our mortality it’s not important. But it’s still a difficult mental obstacle to overcome. I know this sounds like whining, but we are getting there!
Keep up the good work guys and please continue sharing your findings, advices and what not.
We are catching up.
Good to hear that!
As I was saying to the other guy, you are probably in the best position an apprentice can be.
Just keep it up, and everything will solve.
Once you can get far enough, the insecurities, laziness and confusion goes away.
Time is never enough to do everything you want! And you never stop discovering things.
I think that’s where my most difficult obstacle is - insecurities. Not that I am some kinda damaged person, but the reality belief system from my childhood is what feeds the internal dialogue (including the insecurities associated with ego). Someone said something blah blah blah… so I keep trying to pull my attention back into silence and I feel like I am just sitting there in the darkness fighting the inner chatter for the most part, until I start seeing dreams.
I initially thought that the recap needs to be done first, in addition to just practicing DRG again and again. But from your picture and the comment it sounds like one can also just get into that mood/“phase”/AP location, while keeping their “human” form?
Ultimately I want to get rid of the human form, I hate it and the social construct that comes with it. It definitely drags me down.
PS. I might use confusing terminology because I read CC in Russian and am translating based on my understanding.
Nélida said that if someone realizes about "the other self", he can skip recapitulation.
Wich is what we are learning here.
But probably everyone needs J curving to make recapitulation work.
I'd say, try your best to overcome the Ordinary Forces, either way.
>Ultimately I want to get rid of the human form
Yeah, we are looking for it.
It is like a "sorcery stability".
I didn't have it, but Dan probably yes.
My guess is:
Each time you get to the orange, you feel more identified with your heightened awareness state of being, until you become so aware of the 'farce', that the Ordinary Forces stop bothering you so much.
At that point you spontaneously enter the place of no pitty, with almost no effort.
But it could also be something more advanced, that neither Dan has found yet.
As a lurker, this is a good opportunity to thank you guys.
I've been practicing DRG steadily for about 8 weeks now. About 2 hrs on weeknights and 3+ hrs on the weekend. As a long time Tensegrity practitioner, it was just the kind of practice I was craving.
As for my progress, most nights I can get to the point where the silence sets in and becomes effortless. I don't want say much more at this point, as it's still early days for me.
I knew there must be some quiet practitioners!
You are in the best position someone can be.
You already know what Carlos was about, and you are only interested in making it work.
If you keep it up, you have everything to win.
I bet Carlos would have said something like: "I have your freedom ticket in my hand".
For me I meditated for 10 years so when it comes to moving through the J curve I move very fast.
I dont stay in the red zone for long and in fact I am in the red zone within the first 30 minutes of the night most of the night is spent in between the red and orange which takes an additional hour or less.
Of course my result might won't be the result of others.
That's a good advantage.
I was saying to Dan that meditation techniques might work as a very first training.
Do you have any group where we can get the old time meditators' interest?
I do know some older meditators, I wouldn't say we're closely acquainted but I know they're pretty serious. I believe one of them has read some of Castaneda work as well, but they're already a part of various private groups.
Yeah I started when I was 16 but learned about it when I was 13 I always felt like the odd person out being interested in this stuff.
Thanks for the motivation..!
[removed]