To preface, I'm almost done A Separate Reality (Book 2).
This is a brief question. Is there an explanation as to why I see only purple during practice (open or closed eyes). The purple is always a rough circular shape. Recently for the first time the purple has grown to almost my entire vision, but only the once.
I also see white and black wispy light. Sometimes it forms donuts, other times it is just a line.
As another question, why does my mom mostly see red and yellows? She is stubborn and ignorant to most esoteric thoughts but I've always believed she is fully connected. Every time she closes her eyes she claims to see these two colors, but also others. They are vibrant and distracting for her.
I have to work for mine, except last year when it happened any time I tried to sleep.
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We don't have enough data about the specific colors people see, and when they see them, to attribute any sort of correlations to gender, age, personality type etc. etc.
Purples seem to be the most common, but for some it's reds. Why that's so, and if it's in any way important, is not known for certain.
It could be...time will tell.
What is important is the silencing of the inner monologue. It's a sorcerer's bread and butter, and what they put the most effort into (darkroom being one of the best avenues).
To quote Carlos from Martin Goodman's book:
"...keep yourself quiet."
"But ---"
"But I want SILENCE!" He splays his hands wide and freezes his face in a grin, cocking his head as though listening to his shout disappear.
"There," he continues. "Silence. My wants come true. That's fine for me. What about you, Martin? Can you live with what you want?"
Silence has definitely been noticeable. When I slip in to near-dream states I am barely conscious, starting to see images, but it happens just as I forget myself. I suspect this is what needs to be trained and I'll keep up practicing.
Thank you! I'll try to document my color progressions. Hoping to convince my mother to try some of this haha.
You haven't gotten rid of your internal dialogue long enough for your assemblage point to shift!
That's all.
Here's the progression:
1 Very tiny movement of the assemblage point just below the blue line on the J curve: What you're seeing.
2 Brighter colors, with occasional blanking out and coming back, and remembering a tiny vision or dream: green zone. You feel some bliss.
3 Brilliant colors in purple, red, yellow, green, and jet black, swirling around. With blue orbs once in a while: red zone. You feel much stronger bliss, and a sense of darkness or fright, but pleasant fright, is buzzing in you like a mild current.
4 Air is filled with endless magical objects. Little toys, people driving cars in the air, Fairies, orbs, and stuff you can't describe fills every inch of the air. It's difficult to walk from one end of the room to the other, because you get hypnotized by some random toy floating in front of your nose: Now you are finally silent and it's self-sustaining silence (for the most part). Your assemblage point is at the very bottom, and trying to head back up the front (reversing sides).
5 All the colors bleach out, and there's a whitish light on all surfaces. Some is textured. If you gaze at the texture and keep your silence, it plays little videos for you.
You're sleep walking now... And right on the edge of the orange zone. Your assemblage point has finally switched sides, but you're still down below the belly button.
6 You realize, even though you are silent you still "expect" or "anticipate" things. You try to get rid of that by returning to the same level of effort you made at the blue zone, trying to get down to the green. And any traces of your internal dialogue, which are very small at this point, turn into a concrete object floating just above your eyes, around 8 feet away.
You feel intense bliss, but it's deeper than the bliss you can feel at the green zone. It's like caramelized sugar bliss, without the flavor. That's intent.
The odd object you are looking at, which represents your internal dialogue, is in the abstract. Nearly impossible to explain or describe. You see a round thing on he bottom of it, and pull it off with your effort to remove all traces of expectation. The "object" consists of multiple parts, perhaps 6, and forcing more silence disolves one at a time.
A stream of alien energy pours from it, and you stop being "you". You realize, if you could only remain in this state all the time, it would be like living in heaven.
I'm just trying to motivate you. You're stuck at the top, that's all.
Try some tensegrity while you do it. Scooping especially. Place what you scoop on one of the 3 pouches.
But remember, don't fret.
At night you sleep and dream entire worlds.
If you decided not to drink or eat for a few days, you'd start to hallucinate.
If you got a virus and had a high fever, you'd start to see visions that repeat over and over.
If you munched the right shroom, you'd hallucinate like crazy.
(Don't do that, it's harmful to self-learned sorcery.)
I could go on.
But our consciousness is nowhere near stable, or even continuous.
You're glossing. Ignoring what you were taught can't be there. But it is anyway!
I suppose you have to see a few "impossible" puffs of color, before your glossing mechanism relaxes a bit and allows you to see what's there.
Thanks for this very in-depth explanation. I like how you've staged things out. Kind of explains what I might have been seeing last year.
I will look in to ephedrine but I mostly use certain tea, so maybe that herb is a better choice. Overall, there has been some progress so I'm fine with it as it is going.
Try to keep track of your actual efforts in detail, so that if you make it to the red line we can understand how your progress, progressed.
We still don't know if some people have a stubborn assemblage point, or don't fully understand what being silent means, or don't work as long as we recommend, and not everyday.
And there's also people who just like to get attention by having problems. And trolls.
Those are typically easy to detect because they never learn enough in here to tell convincing lies.
But if they did, it would be near to impossible to figure it out.
When this place was much newer, some bad apples came along to pretend to be working, and having no results.
It seemed to me like Jeremy and his friend again, but Techno thought I was being paranoid.
Jeremy is a private class student who wanted to be famous as the one who exposed the fraud of Carlos.
This place made him look like an whiny baby idiot, so he tried to take it down a few ways and got banned.
But some "weird" people showed up not too long after that.
One was a couple. The woman did all the talking. If there even was one. And it was odd. Sometimes she said it was her, and other times she claimed it was him, using her ID. Which would be consistant with a banned guy who needed another idea to post here.
They said they'd been following all instructions for 7 weeks, and nothing had happened. Tried to guilt trip me a couple of times in private chat, before they posted their problems in the public posting area.
Trying to discourage others I suppose?
Bad players often do that. Running man ran around in private chat telling people Carlos thought I was a clown. It was nice to see Amy disprove that in a magazine interview.
Now running man has his own group, and has stolen what we do in here, claiming his is better.
There's really delusional people in this stuff.
But the "couple" that came here was so stupid, they gave themselves away with their crazy claims.
At one point the woman said BOTH of them had tried hard for 7 weeks, and nothing had happened.
And that they'd "reached enlightenment" but still no colors.
What would be nice is to have enough information to always tell when someone is making stuff up.
And also enough info to help someone who's not going as fast as we'd hope.
This is waking dreaming. And there's the whole thing about "stalker" versus "dreamer".
I'm not sure why that separation exists. Taisha is a stalker, but Zuleica is a dreaming instructor. And Zuleica taught her all the way to bringing out her double, into the real world.
My guess: Everyone can do waking dreamer. The stalker thing is more of a preference, than a limitation. Or perhaps it refers to 4 gates dreaming. Some just don't get the "wake up" call inside the dream.
But when it comes to waking dreaming, like we're doing, frankly, if the internal dialogue stops the world stops.
It can't be any other way. It's why a bump on the head causes hallucinations. It's why power plants can cause them too. They alter the internal dialogue. You can notice that if you are sensitive.
And meditation merely alters the internal dialogue by replacing it with a mantra and such. All of it's cool effects are simply a partial job of shutting off the internal dialogue.
So we know it works on everyone.
And you get to see exactly why, near the purple zone on the J curve.
You can nearly shut the world on and off over and over, for periods of just a few seconds.
And it's all internal dialogue controlled.
But a much deeper, "trace level" of the internal dialogue.
At that "near purple" position of the J curve, when it's "on" it's still crystalline dreaming fog you perceive, except in whitish light instead of the colorful stuff in the red zone.
So you can oscillate between amazing levels of visible magic, and the world coming to an end.
It makes you feel bad for people who have trouble seeing colors, because you know full well it's their periodic thinking in words causing that.
But they might feel that it's some sort of "realness" that is holding them back. That the world is "real", and we're trying to override that.
We're not! We're trying to remove a block, not cause one.
Realness is only an artifact of the internal dialogue holding the assemblage point in place.
I'll try my best to keep track of my practice and resulting outcomes. I only have so much time as I'm going to college in healthcare at the moment but I already keep a dream journal so I can add to that.
For sure, I have seen that kind of "bad player" behavior in other places of interest as well. Trolling is not unique to this but the type of people that it attracts is probably a bit more out there in general haha.
I've always been a bit sensitive to minor shifts. I've "heard" things that other people haven't. Nothing bad or major, but for instance I heard a fork hitting a plate in a friend's family's old abandoned homestead just before we left. There was none of those items around, and we were alone there.
Interesting information as always Dan, thank you again. I will be focusing on silencing my internal dialogue as much as I can. I'm already seeking that out naturally; I don't think about that much too often. And to some degree I avoid things that make me think negatively. I think much of what we see is an illusion or construct of the mind, so I hope I have a decent blank slate to work with here.
Main thing is your level of silence, so maybe try the 2 eucalyptus sticks if you can find some.
All day silence is a great technique. But there's not enough rewards to keep people doing it, so I don't recommend it.
Juan gets the rewards, but I doubt he would have used that alone, to get to magic. He started in the darkroom.
>for instance I heard a fork hitting a plate in a friend's family's old abandoned homestead just before we left.
I was able to talk to Cholita a bit in the last 2 days, so I got a chance to see what she's aware of, and what she isn't.
Her double does most of the magic. Does she know it?
I explained what it does, and Cholita said she doesn't remember.
But then she told me she did knock on my door the night before, but I didn't hear her.
Actually, I heard her foot bump into something, a bit loudly!
I ran outside to see if her car was there, but it was not in the parking lot.
I told Cholita I heard the knock, but went outside and her car was not in the parking lot. Did she park it elsewhere?
Cholita looked confused. She said she couldn't remember how she came to be at home, since she'd run away to Beverly Hills.
She had a serious look on her face for 10 minutes, then said,
"What's Novatron?"
Novatron is a suitcase with expensive flash lightsf or old fashioned photography, which used to be in the house, but has disappeared.
Cholita probably took it, so that I couldn't unleash "Novatron" on the population.
Hi Dan, can you elaborate on how shrooms are harmful to self learning?
They get you stuck in the red zone, sideways shifted.
Create a "flat spot", so that as you do darkroom gazing and want to come up the front to the orange zone, you're stuck at the bottom in the red. You might even think you're at the bottom, in the middle, and then you start to move, and you assume it's forward and up the front again.
But it's sideways.
Beginners: You can feel that you are moving! But in the red zone, it's very hard to feel which direction it is. It's not so hard in the green zone, which is why we don't talk about drugs trapping you up there.
Juan and I got stuck recently, just by playing around there in the red zone, drug free.
But with drugs it's worse because it's horizontally shifted quite a bit.
However, the red zone is huge fun and I doubt anyone would feel bad about being able to go there without the drugs! Stuck or not, you'd be kicking Robert Monroe's greedy butt.
And if someone found themselves stuck there, some dark energy could get you out.
We could figure it out, if a heavy shroom user managed to overcome the laziness that shrooms cause, and made it to the bottom drug free.
The problem is possibly similar to Lucid Dreaming or Astral Travel.
Those are false narratives which prevent you from learning. People think they have "skills" and won't let go of the belief they've got an advantage long enough to work hard to learn the real thing.
Astral Travel is especially delusional. It teaches you there's an essence of "you" that lives inside your body, like you were a garage for the real thing. With silver chords connecting you, and who knows what other untrue stuff.
And it teaches you to confuse a dream with the dreaming double, in order to get attention for yourself. And you have lots of "buddies" supporting your right to make up stuff and get attention. Even verifying your make believe, is not make believe.
It also harms the possibility of beckoning "the double" before you can actually see it.
The double is outside, always wandering around. But if you believe it's inside you, there's no chance to notice it.
The first time you notice it "out there", it'll just be a "pull" coming from a specific direction in the dark room.
You'll probably confuse it with an intercepted dream if you have incorrect understandings of the double in your mind.
Aside from destroying the correct intent, so that you won't get much help from the Olmec's intent, it seems to create people on such gigantic ego trips they just fall apart in here and curse everyone.
I've gotten death threats from astral travelers who badly wanted to get "the respect they deserve" in a place that actually matters (here).
But many in here have taken shrooms. Juan tried some even while he was skilled in darkroom, so he could report about it.
Didn't harm him.
And maybe everything I just said is incorrect.
Maybe the Astral Travelers and the heavy drug users, simply fail to learn at the same rate as everyone else.
Only 1 in 100 visitors here give it a try.
Possibly the astral travel / drugged sorcerers simply piss me off and so I notice they never play nice and learn, more than I'd notice a random person not giving it a try.
And former shroom users who do play nice, I just assume they didn't use enough to matter. Plus when they see me ranting about it, they're afraid to fess up and correct the record on how harmful they are.
We need a "questionnaire" person... When someone comes here, we make them fill out the questionnaire.
For instance:
1 How often do you masturbate?
2 Are you a drug addict?
3 Are you an alcoholic?
4 If you made friends with a demon, do you believe God would punish you?
Jeremy had a questionnaire to join the nearly gone "sustained action".
I had a student get quizzed years ago, and he stormed out of there.
All they asked was, what's your favorite color...
Oh wow, you answered what would have been another of my questions! This is excellent stuff.
I think a questionnaire would be helpful to see some commonalities between people that begin to practice, but you might need to have them report in every few months and maintain contact for the best data.
We may be wiped out eventually. The number of views has gone up too much.
There's a whole world of bad players out there who will find this place threatening to their favorite fantasy.
Thanks! Shrooms is something I do a couple of times a year with my wife the last few years. I will keep your comments in mind.
Don't worry about it. I believe I may have mistaken bad players who only want to post, for people who might have learned, if they read more in here.
100 come.
1 tries it.
99 lurk a bit, but don't do an awful lot of posting or commenting.
Maybe the shroom guys believe they have something useful to post, but no interest at all in learning.
So the shrooms simply make them feel entitled to post and comment, but have nothing to do with whether they're really interested in learning.
Np I understand. I am doing gazing daily right now... Some of the uncomfortable effects are subsiding which I now know the origin of. Some memories came up from childhood struggling to fall asleep and seeing "monsters" in my room. I developed a fear response to any kind of perception shift I believe. Since uncovering this I am noticing more stabilizing effects as a result of darkroom. Getting AP in a more solid place in the blue zone I think. Less emotional distress being noticed now etc. I am also doing gazing and silence as much as I can in the day.
Anyway since working through the fear it is noticable just how difficult silencing the dialogue is... At least to get past the fuzzy purple colors phase and into the green zone much less red. Hard work is required here for sure. I fluked out the one time and got to red but that was during a shamanic journey. Instead of visualizing the journey as normal I decided to look at the pretty colors instead during the drum beat. It aided silence temporarily and let me see the IOB.
My opinion for what it's worth, shrooms on its own offers a glimpse to certain levels of perspective but it misses the EFFORT and consistency required to get there. It can create an ego distortion and needs to be properly integrated as a glimpse. I do think shroom users or psyconauts as they call themselves would be a better fit then most to pick this sorcery up vs. the meditation crowd. they have at least experienced the red zone although with 0 context. Ie they know the magic is real, just no idea of getting there naturally. Again as you keep indicating, who is willing to put the work in is the question. Stoners can be very lazy because they "know it all" already lol. They got pulled up the mountain for 10 minutes.
This is the most digestable breakdown of what the zones look like that Ive seen, thanks for this dan.
Would you mind elaborating on this? I came from the drug side first, and while 3 years sober (outside of two occasions) from psychedelics. I think I moved my AP and grounded it a bit somewhere slightly different that normal (but still in blue, maybe I moved it a bit laterally, my vision of reality is not entirely stable/solid and I often get strange perceptual phenomena, visual or otherwise) and its helpful to know how the drugs might be harmful to self-learned sorcery so that I might be able to better identify those roots and get better silence. Ive certainly noticed a lot that I thought I had learned that is not conducive to this practice - like passive silence, without actually living as a truly impeccable warrior, while submitting to self-pity
You'll have a harder time leaving the red zone.
Otherwise, it could simply be that I've gotten too much nonsense from people who have done lucid dreaming, astral travel, or tried to use shrooms to replace sorcery.
And that colors my opinion of shrooms.
Only 1 in 100 will give this a try. So maybe the astral travel guys are among the 99 who won't, and it has nothing to do with their "experiences".
BUT, their experiences make them want to post.
So they come here only wanting to post, and I assume what they posted made them not learn.
When in fact, it's unrelated.
Answering that question for someone else made me realize, so what if you get stuck in the red zone!?!
You've just kicked the Buddha's ass by learning to get there.
And if we need a "rescue", we'll figure it out.
Cholita pulled me out, and in fact it was kind of fun.
Dark energy... That's one way. Possibly that's why don Juan says you need dark energy to move the assemblage point the way we do.
It's for leaving the red zone, but you can get to the red zone with very little of it?
Makes some sense. Maybe it helps that I wasnt trying to learn sorcery, but just to see how far I could push perception. I came in here recently (after casually seeing posts for years and not really paying attention) and brought some of that and realized quickly that what I was doing was at best tangentially related to some practices we do here. When it comes to sorcery, I never thought I knew anything hahaha. At worst, I thought I was the solipsistic god.
By getting stuck in the red zone - do you think that would be due to laterally shifting? That would make some sense to me
If you use shrooms, surely.
If not, it's hard to say.
Anytime you play around in the red zone, you need to shift horizontally to "zero in" on the thing you're playing with.
And that for sure is a horizontal shift!
But if you passed through there daily, as we must do, and you just "enjoyed" it longer than it takes to move on, maybe that would leave enough residual glow to make it hard to leave.
Don't forget, we're stuck in the blue for pretty much the same reason.
Too many emanations are glowing there.
But then there's that internal dialogue thing!
That keeps reactivating the emanations it thinks about.
If you think about the overflowing toilet at home, those specific emanations get a tiny bit of awareness, even though the toilet is a half hour away.
So if you went to the red zone, hung out there, but didn't touch anything at all, and certainly didn't try to "play with something", would you get so used to the red zone, that you'd begin to have red zone internal dialogue?
Maybe.
But it's still best to blow through there, once you notice it's getting a little hard to escape it.
On the other hand, getting stuck and needing Cholita to rescue me, made me notice "back sliding".
I believe Juan mentioned it, but I never saw it clearly before.
You're in the whitish light, fully surrounded by a phantom copy of the room, and you can even "almost" materialize little dream scenes, using the whitish light.
It's classic old seers use of "seeing energy". Playing videos to get answers or find something fun to do. Just as Carlos described it!
From there, you can feel, from time to time, that you got distracted in some way and started to fall.
And then colors begin to appear in the whitish light.
There's a definite feeling of moving, followed by the return of colors.
It'll be interesting to see how others describe the situation.
Yeah I definitely went laterally, though I cant say where. I ewnt laterally in many places, the place I was able to return to the most was one in which visions called "reality breaking" - as the perceptual grounds I had to reality were forgotten, nothing was understood to be "real," and anything was possible. More than videos answering my questions, stuff like my tapestry coming alive and singing to me in vibrating emotions then telling me to turn around and it pressed play on my computer and showed me 30 minutes of literally unbelieveable videos, which were not in my history the next day. I dont know where that state is on the j-curve, but I went there a lot.
My sober-thinking now actually does have a lot to do with that state, but I try not to cling to any interpretation, as I experienced that stuff on drugs and without the practice I needed to stay "clear" in those states. I never ended up one of those "collective consciousness maaaa, good vibes only" types - though I "saw" a lot of that and saw how it could be seen that way - especially if one is scared of the "negative"
But I tried not to hold to any of that but instead use those perspectives as tools to check my other perspectives, to look for internal dissonance, etc. There are tons of things I want to try out in this practice, but in my head this practice and those experiences are in two totally different camps.
Once I get to the red zone with any stability, ill have to see if I get stuck t
Red zone of course. Although, if you went very far sideways in the green, who knows what would happen.
It's a waking dream. So while it might sound amazing, it's no more amazing than what would happen in an ordinary dream, if you got lucid and could hold it as long as you like.
Maybe it's that you're more "awake" than you would be in a dream.
>Once I get to the red zone with any stability,
IOB is what you want for that.
Fancy used to "walk" me over to the horizontal spot she needed.
And to walk, she literally did just that!
No magical rituals, incantations, or weird hand movements.
She just lured me to walk where she needed, and then did her demonstration.
One time she directed me to reach through the wall and grab something.
How that works, I have no idea.
Hmmm to me it did seem more amazing than lucid dreams. The consistency, the overwhelming forces, the visiions that would overlay the "story" that was taking place in life, the abstractions - but perhaps that was only after I "opened a door" by taking an absolutely absurd amount of research chemicals after years of pushing laterally in the red zone on psychedelics. A barrier broke and the things that happened are often hard to explain. The first time it happened, for example, I could see all my thoughts and, while awake and in light, would be slammed with dozens of visions, back to back to back, the vast majority of them being so abstract I slowly lost my ability to even remember them over the next week. The ones I can remember are stuff like looking out of 50 pairs of eyes at once - yet that would only be one experience in a split second surrounded by dozens of others that were typically much stranger.
It wasnt quite that I was lucid though. I didnt really have control, but more like reality itself would shift to my needs. This is why I thought I was god - I was hit with memories of "before the universe" and very explicitly laid out reasons for why I was here, and that reality was a construct like a dream I built for a variety of reasons.
I eventually realized I wasnt the one building all this, and that other people exist just as much as I do - which was mindboggling as even with just me the system seems wildly complex.
Even if I was doing stuff with eyes closed - what I ended up seeing was rarely something I conjured up - and if it was it would be very dim in comparison to whatever else, like seeing my room in full color with my eyes closed (and I checked by waving my hand in front of my face - my thumb was upside down and fading in and out of sight haha, plus pillows kept appearing)
Lucid dreams for me were much more active - I might not control the dream so much but I can do anything in it and "reset" the space, so to speak. And on top of that, there arent many experiences that feel like reality is trying to show you something, very very explicitely. To the point where a window opened in front of me and a script/comic book opened and laid out what was happening, what was being said, and why - before any of it happened.
So I dunno it seemed different than lucid dreaming to me. Never got into lucid dreaming much because I lose the spontanous nature of the dream when I do so. With being in this state, the spontanous nature ramped up to the Nth degree. Anything could happen, and reality was getting sloppy with explaining those strange things away.
Like my favourite, every time I was in that state around people and they were... not themselves. More like they were the writers of their characters - they would show me things. The next day I wanted to talk to them about it - and somehow every single person did not remember that nihgt and was blackout drunk. That never happened... except those 4 times I was in that state and they showed me things.
For a bit I thougrht I was god, though I thought we were all god, now I know I dont know and if anything it was just perceptual. I dont take it so serious anymore, and with this practice im trying to further silence those bits - ill let you now if I get stuck in red
Ill keep trying to interact with the IOB that seems to visit
Maybe not if you'd tried 4 gates dreaming, and followed instructions.
No one ever does. At least, I've never met a single person who followed the instructions Carlos gave us. Most give up on finding their hands, and just start pretending any dream they can remember is 4 gates dreaming.
It's weird because there's so many out there claiming to be following that path, and no one seems to ever pass the 2nd gate. You have to go to the IOB realm, meet the emissary, learn from it, and get tired of that. Or at least, do it enough times to know what's up.
The only thing I can conclude is, they can't get lucid more than once every month or so. And are too embarrassed to admit that. Then the community is used to lying. So they think it's ok to exaggerate.
That's the main reason I don't let known lies pass in here, and the person's head explodes. But if we started thinking it was ok to lie in here, we'd lose it all.
To follow the instructions Carlos had, you need a minimum of 4 times a night lucid, and for a half hour at a time. Maybe you could do it with 2 times a night, but I don't see it being very successful.
Four times a night is doable with obsession.
Then try going to the inorganic being's realm.
You aren't drugged up, so maybe how you feel about it is different, but certainly it's weird enough to satisfy anyone.
It's hard to even figure out the perspective at times.
But you're fully sober.
And they teach you. Visually. Showing you other places and things. One after the other, too fast to recall much of it longer than 10 seconds.
I wonder if you aren't talking mostly about being high?
If that's the case, angel dust might beat your shroom trip.
Can you compare the weirdness level to Angel dust?
Or even Salvia.
Is Salvia "weirder"?
Don Juan seemed to think there was some value to shroom trips. Either that, or it was the only way to be sure Carlos would stick around so he could use the nagual's blow to do the real teaching.
I havent tried 4 gates yet - fair enough. Honestly I forgot "lucid dreaming" would be in terms of 4 gates - so sorry about that, I was just speaking out of my ass.
I havent tried angel dust, but yeah salvia is weirder. It all came with a silly punchline and I found myself saying "what??? That was it??? What was that???"
Im not fully sober yet - I still drink and smoke cigarettes and weed. Ill occasionally do something like coke. Two days ago I took a psychedelic for the first time in 3 years to go to a festival, but now my explorations and practices arent tied to those drugs in any degree.
Yeah the experiences I talked about in the last few comments were all on psychedelics, I was talking about being high - specifically acid or lsd
Ive been putting it off but ill read about the 4 gates of dreaming today and try and start that practice
I just got used to calling it that because the community does.
But it's incorrect.
So if salvia is weirder, I've tried that one. Because it only lasts 10 minutes.
4 gates dreaming and the red zone both, beat salvia.
You just aren't high. So I'm not sure how to remove that part of it.
For instance, is Disneyland more fun than some equal amusement park, if the equal amusement park has a full bar for free?
I'd say the park with the high is more fun.
But I've never done shrooms, so I don't really know.
>Im not fully sober yet - I still drink and smoke cigarettes and weed.
That's fine.
Until it isn't fine.
Those are compatible enough that you can just wait until you figure out why those are not good.
Cigarettes will NEVER be bad. Nicotine helps with sorcery, which is why you always see pictures of Indians smoking a pipe. It keeps you alert, but lets you be mellow at the same time.
We would NEVER have gotten to the moon, without nicotine. We didn't even have real computers back then.
I suspect if you look at when smoking in the workplace began to be forbidden, you'd see a corresponding loss of productivity.
Alcohol is not a big deal but it makes you tired, so you quit early.
Pot dulls the images a LOT, down at the red zone. So it's bad, if you want red zone fun. But only while active. If it wears off, it only makes you a bit tired, and tending to quit early.
Up at the green zone, THC makes weird stuff easier to perceive.
But, the nature of the weird stuff is preselected, and isn't the same as the natural green zone weirdness.
So THC can in fact give someone a taste of green zone stuff, before they can get there.
But if they need that to motivate them, they won't go on anyway.
Stoners probably don't make the best apprentices.
Start 4 gates?
You'll use up some of the power of your intent.
Best to keep it single minded for now.
However, of course if you realize you are in a dream, take full advantage.
Just don't confuse intent, by craving that too.
It's a tiny bit like adding some Buddhist beliefs to your darkroom.
Never a good thing...
This is all understandable, thank you.
Except "you just arent high" - not sure what you mean by that
I get what youre saying with booze and weed too. I find myself more and more not actually enjoying them, let alone their drawbacks. Luckilly booze doesnt make me more tired until I have a lot, but it does give me an excuse to not do things, including practice.
I think I agree with the idea that pot dulls the images and lets soem weird stuff thru, thats preselected.
Actually that reminds me, when I took that psychedelic for the festival I decided to close my eyes and do some DRG for little bit. Very ordered pattern gave way to naked women, and it wouldnt stop! The drug certainly made me horny, so I tried to see if I could silence that and allow more to happen. Nothing else was nearly as vivid. The things I saw, even the patters, were certainly pre-selected.
I think that translates to my experiences with LSD as well. The type of experiences were always in the same vein, no matter how far I pushed it.
Sober DRG seems to have a vein as well so far, but it seems cleaner and a bit more open.
Perhaps ill just read the 4 gates stuff posted here, keep it in my mind so I can make sure I talk out of my ass less!
Ill watch my cravings. So far it goes as far as slight disappointment if nothing special happens in a drg session, but ive been silencing that and noticing smaller and subtler details when I notice that.
And I have too many psychedelic experiences that I want to point to to help outline it, but im not going to do that. Ill just keep practicing and attempting to ramp up DRG so im actually doing 3 hrs a day. Ive started to let self-pity jump in and go "practicing silence all day is enough!" when of course, im not actually doing it all day with clear focus. Easy to let a week go when my schedule got chaotic. Bad excuse.
You're more sober than ever when you get to the orange zone.
So sober, you're like a Zen master.
No sense of "self".
And the lack of sense of self isn't a side effect.
You have to keep your perception focused on that, or the self comes back.
>Very ordered pattern gave way to naked women, and it wouldn't stop!
It's remarkably easy to learn that with chair silence.
And of course in lucid dreaming, if you get past the IOBs trying to hold you down and suck up energy.
>Sober DRG seems to have a vein as well so far, but it seems cleaner and a bit more open.
Maybe only because the natural tendency at first, is to shift right only.
If you shift left (horizontal shifts), it's VERY different than shifting right.
And at the red zone, shifting left includes insect forms.
Being a fly is so drastic, Carol Tiggs likes to avoid it. Has a lasting effect.
Being a giant beast with super strength does not have a lasting effect. That's a moderate right shift.
I suppose, considering that, dark room can be a lot weirder, except we don't know how to shift horizontally easy enough to do that on purpose.
So we stay mostly in the middle, whereas shrooms surely push you to the side.
Oh gotcha with "you arent high"
Ive learned to see naked women in silence, but theyll come and go, and other things will emerge. In this it was ALL naked women. I tried some things to open up to other things, and nothing really worked
I didnt play so much with shrooms, I stuck mostly with lsd. Lsd seemed to put the internal into the external, shrooms seemed to put the external into the internal. Both would, if done right, remove barriers that hold the AP into place, but seems to have a set pathway. One that can be broken, to a degree (and to great effect) but nothing that is lasting for learning sorcery. Only as useful as being able to go "oh, I know that!" - but that seems it can be just as harmful to the practice
As you said, they can chain to laterally and make it hard to go further. That makes sense with my experiences
I dated Owsley Stanley's lovely daughter Nina. Sort of.
He made those lovely LSD "Gel tabs" for Grateful Dead concerts.
Possibly made the LSD found in Einstein's brain on his death. I can't imagine who else would be making it. Certainly not Leary.
Einstein was curious the same way we are. Did what he called, "thought experiments".
Interesting, ill have to look into einsteains thoughts on acid, that should be a trip!
Did you try the pseudoephedrine trick?
Has to be the real stuff, which is behind the counter in the USA.
Or if you can find Ma Huang in a Chinese herb store, make a tea out of that. Ask them about dosage to help "keep you alert". There are some pages warning about it, but since it's active ingredient was used in sports drinks and nearly all cold medications here since world war 2, and no one was dropping dead from it, that concern seems over done to me.
https://www.chineseherbsinfo.com/the-benefits-and-side-effects-of-ma-huang-ephedra/
If you see any colors at all, induced by silence, they'll get brighter and start to move.
I looked on amazon, and it's also called, "Mormon tea".
Those Mormon's are really wacked!
They tell their followers not to drink coffee because it's bad for them, ignoring that the latest research says it's very good for you, up to 3 cups. Some say 5.
Flowers even produce caffeine, just to help the hard working bees out!
But then the Mormons guzzle ephedrine tea instead of coffee?
All of the world's religions are frauds!
Not a single one is true. Nor is a single one even particularly reasonable.
Except shamanism.
But shamanism has become impotent through greed and laziness.
And it's not really a religion anyway.
Just sounds like one because the concepts are foreign.
everyday i say im going to do 3 hours but then everynight i get an hour and a half in and end up going to sleep because i get so tired and lazy.
am i doing myself a disservice by refusing to use caffeine nicotine or any form of stimulant? i quit all stimulants a few years ago.
im honestly kinda scared to start drinking coffee again
A dirty little secret...
3 hours = you got lazy and did 1.5
If I said 1.5, you'd do 20 minutes.
Unfortunately the fraudulent magical systems with "easy" meditation techniques, tell you that "20 minutes twice a day, morning and evening" will lead to "enlightenment".
Not mentioning, enlightenment = pathetic. But it's a big deal to them to get to what we call, "the green zone".
There's even some poor sad man running the TM subreddit after Maharishi died, his taxi cab brother tried to take over, and finally Rabi Shankar, Maharishi's situar player, cloned himself into a newer version of Maharishi minus the daisy flower bopping hands, and continued the crime of stealing from stupid americans.
I pointed out to that lonely guy in the TM subreddit that I took his advanced "Siddhi" courses 40 years ago, and could explain to him why that was a dead end. Hopefully to save him from himself.
He called me a liar.
Hey! I was there in the big dome when Maharishi called his "emergency meeting of 7000 people would would levitate".
Physically if they got the 7000! According to Maharishi.
At $1500 a pop for the workshop in Iowa. Where a whole house cost $20,000.
So don't be like a TM zombie.
There's really no "routine" that will work.
1.5 hours of intense effort in darkroom, is better than 10 hours of "Transcendental Meditation" with your eyes closed.
BUT, eventually you'll understand why I said 3 hours.
It simply takes 2 hours to move all the way along the J curve.
So after the first hour, you already got to the red zone.
The next hour is needed to get to the deep orange zone.
And then one hour so you get to "smell the flowers" over there.
And if you aren't moving a tiny bit further each time, even if you're still between blue and green, you aren't really trying your hardest, to be silent.
You're fantasizing the whole time.
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