I dont interact here often but i recall something being mentioned about them siphoning energy through your fear or something like that. Thats why its important you dont fear them. They just wanna play lol
And for your second question, anything rlly
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u/danl999
7 points2021-12-09 03:27
They can push objects with around 2 ounces of force.
Which is not enough to harm you, but they are amazingly intelligent.
If you are walking in the mountains, they could find a rotten tree above you, which is about to fall anyway, realize that, and give it a tiny push.
They're like James Bond, who can pick up a drinking glass, and throw it so as to precisely hit the elevator button across the room, having never practiced that in his life.
They can manipulate reality far better than we can.
So they can murder you, in other words.
But so can you murder random people in your city. You don't, I hope.
And since there are far more IOBs on earth than humans, if they had a tendancy to murder people, we'd know about it.
Fortunately, they crave interaction from us. So once you can interact with them, you become extremely valuable because they get "super speed" from you.
For them, it's like if they can get you to hang out with them, they can turn into "the Flash".
And you get dark energy from them, so you turn into Dr. Strange.
That means they can murder you, or get to be the Flash while helping you learn to be a better Dr. Strange. For a while. The energy we trade doesn't last more than a few days.
Once you convince them it's more fun to be the Flash than to murder you, they start to take a liking to you.
Eventually they become very loyal friends, although they would still like to take you to live in their world with them. We only live a miserable 100 years in ours, but in theirs you can live 5 millon years.
They have "flash dancing" parties in there, I suppose.
What can you gain?
If you are thinking like that, you are very unlikely to ever learn sorcery.
You'll continue to "gain" things, and the huge amount of work it takes to get things with sorcery, will make it seem to be not worth it. Compared to spending your free time gaining in the "real" world.
Or, you'll be constantly looking for a way to turn it into "more" gain, and all you'll be able to think of, is impressing other people so you can get stuff from them.
The book deal mind will prevent you from learning.
It'll break the link to intent.
So for example, Cholita is an amazing witch.
SHE can break the laws of physics.
I love to see that!
But if I got the idea to "prove" it to others, using Cholita, she'd never do that again. Ever.
Which is pretty much what happened so far.
That's a case of a cautious witch, but the same happens with any magic in this path. Once you start thinking about other people and how they'll react to your wondeful magic, you won't get any.
It's not punishment from the magic gods for being greedy.
They don't care. And eventually (after many years), you'll be able to do that.
But for now, it destroys the movement of the assemblage point, if you have any tendancy to think about "gain".
Gain becomes another element to how the emnations are reskimmed, so they don't change the way we need them to, in order to make progress.
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u/IndridColdwave
5 points2021-12-09 04:50
Is there a reason why a person would not want to go to the world of the iob? I always fantasize about leaving this world and not coming back, maybe not a healthy thing to indulge in but when I was younger and took psychedelics I would tell my friends, “if I see a little door in a tree I’m going in and you’ll never see me again” ha
If you go to the iob world are you basically just stuck there? Or is it mostly unknown what would happen?
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u/matejthetree
3 points2021-12-09 05:22
stuck if you are male
death defier changed his sex to female and escaped
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u/matejthetree
3 points2021-12-09 07:14
To elaborate more, you are stuck only if you voice your intention to stay. Else you can visit and go away, according to the books.
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u/danl999
6 points2021-12-09 15:43
All we can do is trust our teachers, who didn't want to go live there if they could avoid it, but half the time didn't manage to reach the 3rd attention.
When that happened, when sorcerers in our lineage failed to escape having to go live with the IOBs, no one mourned them. Because in fact, that place is Hindu heaven. Or Buddhist "higher planes". Or Daoist "heavenly realms".
It's the highest achievement in those systems.
So likely it's not so bad.
BUT, you can visit there nightly. And figure out yourself if it's a good or bad place.
I do nightly!
I just don't go in very far. Because supposedly that's not safe for men.
Unfortunately, we can't see it for what it really is at our level. So when you first go in there, what you see is not what everyone else sees.
But there's another way to look at this. I never understood it until last night, when Fancy helped me out. Here's the passage:
"Although he felt that he was inextricably linked to that old tradition, he considered himself to be one of the seers of a new cycle. When I asked him once what the essential character of the seers of the new cycle was, he said that they are the warriors of total freedom; that they are such masters of awareness, stalking, and intent that they are not caught by death like the rest of mortal men; but choose the moment and the way of their departure from this world. At that moment they are consumed by a fire from within and vanish from the face of the earth, free, as if they had never existed."
I was confused when I read that, because some Thai Buddhists don't believe you end the cycle of re-incarnation and become godlike, but rather that you never existed in the first place. Your goal is to remove the fact that you even existed at all, to end the suffering.
So I misunderstood that passage to be the same thing.
But it doesn't mean that at all.
You simply "undo" the mistake of being born here.
We were created by the Eagle as pure awareness, free from organic matter, exploring the emanations.
As Carlos said, you can learn to ride the emanations like a chariot into infinity.
The old seers didn't manage to do that, or perhaps didn't even know about it.
The new seers try to undo the effects of being born here, and resume their "definitive journey", as a new form of "specialized" inorganic being.
Which we were, in the first place.
So if you go into the IOB realm, you don't undo that and return to your natural state.
The Eagle seems to have made us more like seeds, than eggs.
We're trying to undo having sprouted and grown, and return to the seed state.
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u/calixto_mooneeeee
1 points2021-12-10 19:05
They can push objects with around 2 ounces of force.
Which is not enough to harm you, but they are amazingly intelligent.
What about Poltergeist activity when it throws chairs and other hard objects, closing and open doors etc? i believe it must be IOB as well?
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u/danl999
1 points2021-12-10 20:43
Could be I just don't have "strong" ones.
But frankly, I've never seen a "convincing" movie of stronger ones.
Someone showed me a Russian situation video, but the movie wasn't convincing. Lots of fluff and setup, and whatever it showed wasn't enough to care about.
The convincing videos I saw on Youtube, were 2 ounces or less objects.
There are however, "other kinds" of inorganic beings which don Juan mentions.
He tells Carlos not to look at them to long or they might notice you, and presumably take you.
Do you know of a convincing poltergeist movie involving chairs?
Is there a link to it?
If you think about it, people can easily ignore 2 ounce objects moving by themselves.
They can't ignore chairs.
And yet, we don't seem to have a problem with that on the nightly news.
Anything depicting that I've seen, is a made for profit movie.
Which has HUGE bad player potential.
Jacobo was out looking for stuff like that, for his series of books.
Never made one on that topic.
But, I must admit. I never believed those UFO pictures.
Now it looks like we're surrounded by alien space craft, and have been at least 20 years.
It was simply covered up.
Those would be a better explanation for the moving chairs.
Two aliens, in a tiny space craft, bored out of their minds.
They see some raggedy people in a crummy old house in the middle of nowhere, and decide to "prank" them.
They clearly can manipulate matter, since those spacecraft defy the laws of physics as we know them.
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u/calixto_mooneeeee
1 points2021-12-11 09:07
On this channel there is plenty videos but in russian language, this is a poltergeist investigator which travels around russia looking for such interesting poltergeist cases. Mostly he discovers families with some problems inside the family: it can be either hard drinking dad or mother, or children with some emotional traumas or illness, or physically mental or sick people, he encountered cases when poltergeist throws hard objects, bends strong iron wrenches, starts the fire of objects, writes notes with bad words, even speaks with an eveil voices.
All this reminds me the case described by Carlos, when he depicts his period of life with his aunty, he used to hear somebody's steps outside the window and when he tried to catch it, there was nobody outside and Don Juan told either it was some part of subconcious power of his Aunt or it was an IOB.
Also i remember La Gorda told Carlos,during their conversation with Pablito that after visiting ancient site in Mexico, they got some bad luck effects and she mentioned some roof beams set on fire themselves and some objects were falling on them, smth like that if i remember clearly.
So i keeping in mind all this i wonder, may be IOB can be of different races as human beings, for example those which are met by Dan are kind of weak in our physical reality and can hardly push small objects and others spirits or IOB can throw heavy objects and even drag people from the bed easily as described on this youtube channel.
I remember also a passage from a book where Don Juan speaks about three times of IOB and one of the IOB type described by DJ was an evil one, he told if this entity penetrates the house its impossible to get it out of it later and he knows the family which was fighting it for a long time, trying to catch it and finally found themselves in a very bad position threatening their life.
Another option that comes into my mind is that there can be some of the sorceres amongst the people, some one who is similiar to La Catalina, who knows some practical tools how to control IOB which can push heavy objects and influence other people amd by controlling them they attack anybody they want.
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u/danl999
1 points2021-12-11 19:04
There's no evidence in that link, it's just people talking.
That's what I saw in the last "proof" someone gave me. Just people talking.
As for witches like La Catalina, that sounds fun.
But Cholita can push things in her double. She seems limited to 2 ounces too.
And shapeshift is almost certainly done in the double.
I've felt Cholita push enough times to know it's not strong.
Which reminds me... I'd forgotten this, perhaps forever if you didn't post this comment.
Cholita burned an image in my emanations.
I uncovered it by waving my hands across the whitish light last night.
It was Cholita floating horizontally in the air, dead. She used it to demonstrate the "Pandora's Box" pass to me, in her double.
I'd just been doing that pass, and was amazed at how bright the puffs were.
I waved my hand across the air, to scoop up more, and uncovered dead Cholita.
Anyway, about how much a double can push...
Maybe there's an account in the books where we know for a fact someone was in their double, and moved something heavy?
The IOB DJ was talking about which wouldn't leave, was shadow men wasn't it?
Those can't push things at all, as far as I know. They're too "different" and have almost no overlap.
But, I never studied that topic.
A collection of all accounts of IOB activity in the books, would be a VERY GOOD resource for the subreddit.
Now that Techno made those "all info on Carlos or the witches" documents, there's the potential for "skimmings" from them, which are very valuable.
Before, you couldn't do that!
Then, you could make skimmings, of the skimmings.
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u/calixto_mooneeeee
1 points2021-12-11 20:09
Watch till the end, there will be table rollover
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u/danl999
1 points2021-12-11 22:38
Can you give me the time code. I only see them rocking it with their hands, as the guy with the video camera covers the lens for an instant.
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u/calixto_mooneeeee
1 points2021-12-12 09:55
))) rocking it with their hands, you sounds like preconceived against such cases)) Actually with any IOB you can tell its a prank or smbd pulling the fish line that you don;t see to move smth... That is why when people tells their story about poltergeist activity in their house nobody belives them because people wanna believe only in what they see and can touch or explain.
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u/danl999
1 points2021-12-12 16:14
I just want to see actual pictures of it, not stuff where you can't tell what's up and it's easily people just pretending to get attention.
What's wrong with actually wanting to see it???
So, you couldn't point to any...
Same happens every time we get a new guy in here making claims about stuff. They can never point to any evidence.
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u/calixto_mooneeeee
1 points2021-12-12 17:31
IOB moving shoes in the mosque
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u/danl999
2 points2021-12-12 17:54
I've seen those sorts of videos. Where the object could be pushed with 2oz of force.
Some very convincing!
That one, not.
Looks like the work of magnets to me. In order to lure people into the mosque, in order to get more cash.
When I've watched my own IOBs move objects close up, there's nothing on earth except a complex machine with very fine gears, that could produce the movement.
It's absolutely smooth, and slower than friction would allow a person to push an object. A "trick" would cause it to skip and jitter.
The movements I saw were absolutely smooth.
Impossible, even to duplicate that appearance with trickery.
Keep in mind, the IOBs are "slow".
They seek us out, because we can speed them up.
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u/calixto_mooneeeee
2 points2021-12-12 19:06
So i think poltergeist must be other type of iob that is much faster and stronger and shows less intelligence than standard iob described in books of CC. I think its what don Juan told about family which was exhausted in trying to opposite such entity and if one settle down in your house there is only one way to resolve this by leaving it.. La Gorda told their roof beams were set on fire automatically as well and objects were falling on them.
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u/danl999
2 points2021-12-12 19:41
One day, someone will post all mentions of IOBs from all books, and all lecture notes. Because Techno created those.
Then, count the different types.
It should be very enlightening.
I should add, if you have more than 1 "Ally", and you don't summon a particular one, it gets harder and harder to find it.
They seem to need our energy or they can't show up easily.
And if they make the effort nightly, but you don't notice them, maybe they go back to not being interested in you.
After all, they're billions of years old, and have been rejected by humans millions of times.
But you can make them more active again by just playing with them nightly.
Then, they daily get more and more active.
Until finally, they actually shift you into their world anytime they can manage it.
Which is not a bad thing. You get charged up with their dark energy, and a half hour later in the darkroom something amazing happens.
But long after you forgot it might be because they charged you up.
That's one problem with IOBs. Intent delays. Dark energy delays.
Now here's the tricky part...
Eventually, you figure it out.
You're practicing something, look at a wall, and realize you are in one of their caves.
Not fully inside.
It's simply on the eastern wall. Or any wall, but I've seen the most on the south wall and the east wall.
You see little heads and people stuck in whatever type of cave wall you are looking at.
After a week of that, you begin to figure out, each time you see that, it's going to be "a good night" later on.
And you'll do something AMAZING, look to the side, and there's your "ally" hoping you'll give her credit.
Then, if you talk to them saying, "Thanks!"...
You just gave them "permission" to do more.
I don't know how that permission thing works, but consider that the Nagual Rosendo gave Elias and his nagual woman to the inorganic beings, and they actually took them.
They didn't have Elias' permission...
So we don't understand what "permission" really is.
If they do something, it pleases you, and you tell them, do they now have permission to do more?
Thus 2 nights ago I looked up, and I was in an IOB cave. Just barely.
I nodded to an IOB on the wall. Didn't recognize that one, but I figure it lived there with my "Ally".
A few minutes later I looked up, and I was further into their cave.
I got paranoid so I pretended not to be looking, did something else, then glanced at the wall from the side.
I was slowly moving further into their tunnels.
A bit too far for my skill level.
I had absolute knowledge of the fact that I was "almost too far in" for a male to wander without more understanding.
Could have been them reminding me, I was going further based on flimsy permission, which they were trying to solidify by having me realize it, and not stop it.
My guess is, they'll try that twice before they don't do that again, and come up with some other trick.
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u/calixto_mooneeeee
2 points2021-12-12 22:04
Did you return easily from their cave, any memory erasure effects? As i suppose the further you go the less memory about the place you came from?
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u/danl999
2 points2021-12-13 15:13
So far!
Of course there's memory effects!
But there's memory effects anywhere on the Orange curve.
I learned 3 totally amazing secrets last night at the deep orange zone, started to get up to type them into chat, than realized I have to get over doing that. Because it ends your practice session.
So I wrote it in the air, using my finger. Don Juan said the principle was sound.
This morning, it's all gone.
Memory requires a "lookup index".
When you're at a distant assemblage point position, what makes sense over here, doesn't make sense over there.
There's no index possible at times.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
1 points2021-12-13 17:18
We really need to figure out some additional universal strategies, other than thumbs up and finger writing, to address the memory issue!
And by figure out I mostly mean discover.
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u/danl999
2 points2021-12-13 20:13
There's a lot of stuff we can discover to make it easier on new people.
But maybe it will take years, and hundreds of people trying it out.
I believe what I wrote in the air was "whitish order".
It seems, I'd seen a scheme to figure out where you were on the front side, based on the nature of the whitish light.
There were at least 6 different ways the whitish light could look, probably 8, and each corresponded to a position on the J curve, front side of the body.
But there was even more super cool stuff.
All lost.
Like, this kind is best for entering the IOB realm. This kind automatically brings the double out.
And you can move back and forth between kinds, to improve control over your awareness.
Like an "exercise routine". Move to the ruled, then back up to the smooth, then back to ruled and forward to phantom.
And there was something about don Juan's techniques at the extreme end.
It was Lily's doing. But I had "Ally Assist" while testing if what she said works.
On first part of the J curve, you can decide where you are based on "puff quality", and the swirling blackness. It very reliable.
On the front, it seems that you can look at the whitish light to figure it out.
But we probably only have 2 or 3 besides me who can get to the actual whitish light, in the orange zone.
Could be a dark energy issue.
Lily also taught me something about that. And it's lost too.
It was good news for people who don't have an inorganic being.
Wish I could remember it.
It was something implying you could get by without dark energy, as long as you didn't expect to be doing anything dazzling.
I should add, that "lesson" from Lily, was after 10 hours of darkroom practicing.
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u/ThePhantomMagician
3 points2021-12-09 11:28
So what happens to the people who just die and never got the chance to practice sorcery so their “normal” ass never went to a single IOB realm. Do they just remain here on the physical plane and become a ghost? How many years do they get to spend on the physical after death?
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u/matejthetree
1 points2021-12-09 13:47
this is a question that noone can really answer from Tonal perspective correctly.
there are plenty of IOBs of all kinds. some latch to your emotions that you don't want to feel, thus blocking them. some people die in this way, cause some organs need certain energy to function properly. but the moment you release the block on the energy that creates the emotions, they are gone as well. see, it was consenting. there are stupid parasites, as well as intelligent beings interesting to sorcerers.
some are smart whisperers for the ones who don't want to take responsibility for their lives.
so they find someone to listen to.
with a touch of intelligence, you should be fine in either case. since you never jump from too high before clearing the previous level.
after death I got visited by awareness of some people. didn't comunicate, but the presence came for a short while. it was mostly straight after death or couple of days. sometimes I see awareness of unborn child from a mother who had miscarriage. truly strange.
i believe that Juan Matus said that awareness slowly dissipates for 500 years before it is gone. i guess we will all see once we die.
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u/Somelier1234
2 points2021-12-09 16:11
Dude this stuff is blowing my mind for real
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u/djgilles
1 points2021-12-10 21:32
The line between organic and inorganic is gossamer, I think. Not everything one encounters has your best interests at heart. And everything hunts, in its own way. However, I think if you are strong and together (ie, impeccable) you are building up enough defense not to be swallowed up by just anything...
27 Comments
I dont interact here often but i recall something being mentioned about them siphoning energy through your fear or something like that. Thats why its important you dont fear them. They just wanna play lol
And for your second question, anything rlly
They can push objects with around 2 ounces of force.
Which is not enough to harm you, but they are amazingly intelligent.
If you are walking in the mountains, they could find a rotten tree above you, which is about to fall anyway, realize that, and give it a tiny push.
They're like James Bond, who can pick up a drinking glass, and throw it so as to precisely hit the elevator button across the room, having never practiced that in his life.
They can manipulate reality far better than we can.
So they can murder you, in other words.
But so can you murder random people in your city. You don't, I hope.
And since there are far more IOBs on earth than humans, if they had a tendancy to murder people, we'd know about it.
Fortunately, they crave interaction from us. So once you can interact with them, you become extremely valuable because they get "super speed" from you.
For them, it's like if they can get you to hang out with them, they can turn into "the Flash".
And you get dark energy from them, so you turn into Dr. Strange.
That means they can murder you, or get to be the Flash while helping you learn to be a better Dr. Strange. For a while. The energy we trade doesn't last more than a few days.
Once you convince them it's more fun to be the Flash than to murder you, they start to take a liking to you.
Eventually they become very loyal friends, although they would still like to take you to live in their world with them. We only live a miserable 100 years in ours, but in theirs you can live 5 millon years.
They have "flash dancing" parties in there, I suppose.
What can you gain?
If you are thinking like that, you are very unlikely to ever learn sorcery.
You'll continue to "gain" things, and the huge amount of work it takes to get things with sorcery, will make it seem to be not worth it. Compared to spending your free time gaining in the "real" world.
Or, you'll be constantly looking for a way to turn it into "more" gain, and all you'll be able to think of, is impressing other people so you can get stuff from them.
The book deal mind will prevent you from learning.
It'll break the link to intent.
So for example, Cholita is an amazing witch.
SHE can break the laws of physics.
I love to see that!
But if I got the idea to "prove" it to others, using Cholita, she'd never do that again. Ever.
Which is pretty much what happened so far.
That's a case of a cautious witch, but the same happens with any magic in this path. Once you start thinking about other people and how they'll react to your wondeful magic, you won't get any.
It's not punishment from the magic gods for being greedy.
They don't care. And eventually (after many years), you'll be able to do that.
But for now, it destroys the movement of the assemblage point, if you have any tendancy to think about "gain".
Gain becomes another element to how the emnations are reskimmed, so they don't change the way we need them to, in order to make progress.
Is there a reason why a person would not want to go to the world of the iob? I always fantasize about leaving this world and not coming back, maybe not a healthy thing to indulge in but when I was younger and took psychedelics I would tell my friends, “if I see a little door in a tree I’m going in and you’ll never see me again” ha
If you go to the iob world are you basically just stuck there? Or is it mostly unknown what would happen?
stuck if you are male
death defier changed his sex to female and escaped
To elaborate more, you are stuck only if you voice your intention to stay. Else you can visit and go away, according to the books.
All we can do is trust our teachers, who didn't want to go live there if they could avoid it, but half the time didn't manage to reach the 3rd attention.
When that happened, when sorcerers in our lineage failed to escape having to go live with the IOBs, no one mourned them. Because in fact, that place is Hindu heaven. Or Buddhist "higher planes". Or Daoist "heavenly realms".
It's the highest achievement in those systems.
So likely it's not so bad.
BUT, you can visit there nightly. And figure out yourself if it's a good or bad place.
I do nightly!
I just don't go in very far. Because supposedly that's not safe for men.
Unfortunately, we can't see it for what it really is at our level. So when you first go in there, what you see is not what everyone else sees.
But there's another way to look at this. I never understood it until last night, when Fancy helped me out. Here's the passage:
"Although he felt that he was inextricably linked to that old tradition, he considered himself to be one of the seers of a new cycle. When I asked him once what the essential character of the seers of the new cycle was, he said that they are the warriors of total freedom; that they are such masters of awareness, stalking, and intent that they are not caught by death like the rest of mortal men; but choose the moment and the way of their departure from this world. At that moment they are consumed by a fire from within and vanish from the face of the earth, free, as if they had never existed."
I was confused when I read that, because some Thai Buddhists don't believe you end the cycle of re-incarnation and become godlike, but rather that you never existed in the first place. Your goal is to remove the fact that you even existed at all, to end the suffering.
So I misunderstood that passage to be the same thing.
But it doesn't mean that at all.
You simply "undo" the mistake of being born here.
We were created by the Eagle as pure awareness, free from organic matter, exploring the emanations.
As Carlos said, you can learn to ride the emanations like a chariot into infinity.
The old seers didn't manage to do that, or perhaps didn't even know about it.
The new seers try to undo the effects of being born here, and resume their "definitive journey", as a new form of "specialized" inorganic being.
Which we were, in the first place.
So if you go into the IOB realm, you don't undo that and return to your natural state.
The Eagle seems to have made us more like seeds, than eggs.
We're trying to undo having sprouted and grown, and return to the seed state.
What about Poltergeist activity when it throws chairs and other hard objects, closing and open doors etc? i believe it must be IOB as well?
Could be I just don't have "strong" ones.
But frankly, I've never seen a "convincing" movie of stronger ones.
Someone showed me a Russian situation video, but the movie wasn't convincing. Lots of fluff and setup, and whatever it showed wasn't enough to care about.
The convincing videos I saw on Youtube, were 2 ounces or less objects.
There are however, "other kinds" of inorganic beings which don Juan mentions.
He tells Carlos not to look at them to long or they might notice you, and presumably take you.
Do you know of a convincing poltergeist movie involving chairs?
Is there a link to it?
If you think about it, people can easily ignore 2 ounce objects moving by themselves.
They can't ignore chairs.
And yet, we don't seem to have a problem with that on the nightly news.
Anything depicting that I've seen, is a made for profit movie.
Which has HUGE bad player potential.
Jacobo was out looking for stuff like that, for his series of books.
Never made one on that topic.
But, I must admit. I never believed those UFO pictures.
Now it looks like we're surrounded by alien space craft, and have been at least 20 years.
It was simply covered up.
Those would be a better explanation for the moving chairs.
Two aliens, in a tiny space craft, bored out of their minds.
They see some raggedy people in a crummy old house in the middle of nowhere, and decide to "prank" them.
They clearly can manipulate matter, since those spacecraft defy the laws of physics as we know them.
On this channel there is plenty videos but in russian language, this is a poltergeist investigator which travels around russia looking for such interesting poltergeist cases. Mostly he discovers families with some problems inside the family: it can be either hard drinking dad or mother, or children with some emotional traumas or illness, or physically mental or sick people, he encountered cases when poltergeist throws hard objects, bends strong iron wrenches, starts the fire of objects, writes notes with bad words, even speaks with an eveil voices.
All this reminds me the case described by Carlos, when he depicts his period of life with his aunty, he used to hear somebody's steps outside the window and when he tried to catch it, there was nobody outside and Don Juan told either it was some part of subconcious power of his Aunt or it was an IOB.
Also i remember La Gorda told Carlos,during their conversation with Pablito that after visiting ancient site in Mexico, they got some bad luck effects and she mentioned some roof beams set on fire themselves and some objects were falling on them, smth like that if i remember clearly.
So i keeping in mind all this i wonder, may be IOB can be of different races as human beings, for example those which are met by Dan are kind of weak in our physical reality and can hardly push small objects and others spirits or IOB can throw heavy objects and even drag people from the bed easily as described on this youtube channel.
I remember also a passage from a book where Don Juan speaks about three times of IOB and one of the IOB type described by DJ was an evil one, he told if this entity penetrates the house its impossible to get it out of it later and he knows the family which was fighting it for a long time, trying to catch it and finally found themselves in a very bad position threatening their life.
Another option that comes into my mind is that there can be some of the sorceres amongst the people, some one who is similiar to La Catalina, who knows some practical tools how to control IOB which can push heavy objects and influence other people amd by controlling them they attack anybody they want.
There's no evidence in that link, it's just people talking.
That's what I saw in the last "proof" someone gave me. Just people talking.
As for witches like La Catalina, that sounds fun.
But Cholita can push things in her double. She seems limited to 2 ounces too.
And shapeshift is almost certainly done in the double.
I've felt Cholita push enough times to know it's not strong.
Which reminds me... I'd forgotten this, perhaps forever if you didn't post this comment.
Cholita burned an image in my emanations.
I uncovered it by waving my hands across the whitish light last night.
It was Cholita floating horizontally in the air, dead. She used it to demonstrate the "Pandora's Box" pass to me, in her double.
I'd just been doing that pass, and was amazed at how bright the puffs were.
I waved my hand across the air, to scoop up more, and uncovered dead Cholita.
Anyway, about how much a double can push...
Maybe there's an account in the books where we know for a fact someone was in their double, and moved something heavy?
The IOB DJ was talking about which wouldn't leave, was shadow men wasn't it?
Those can't push things at all, as far as I know. They're too "different" and have almost no overlap.
But, I never studied that topic.
A collection of all accounts of IOB activity in the books, would be a VERY GOOD resource for the subreddit.
Now that Techno made those "all info on Carlos or the witches" documents, there's the potential for "skimmings" from them, which are very valuable.
Before, you couldn't do that!
Then, you could make skimmings, of the skimmings.
Watch till the end, there will be table rollover
Can you give me the time code. I only see them rocking it with their hands, as the guy with the video camera covers the lens for an instant.
))) rocking it with their hands, you sounds like preconceived against such cases)) Actually with any IOB you can tell its a prank or smbd pulling the fish line that you don;t see to move smth... That is why when people tells their story about poltergeist activity in their house nobody belives them because people wanna believe only in what they see and can touch or explain.
I just want to see actual pictures of it, not stuff where you can't tell what's up and it's easily people just pretending to get attention.
What's wrong with actually wanting to see it???
So, you couldn't point to any...
Same happens every time we get a new guy in here making claims about stuff. They can never point to any evidence.
IOB moving shoes in the mosque
I've seen those sorts of videos. Where the object could be pushed with 2oz of force.
Some very convincing!
That one, not.
Looks like the work of magnets to me. In order to lure people into the mosque, in order to get more cash.
When I've watched my own IOBs move objects close up, there's nothing on earth except a complex machine with very fine gears, that could produce the movement.
It's absolutely smooth, and slower than friction would allow a person to push an object. A "trick" would cause it to skip and jitter.
The movements I saw were absolutely smooth.
Impossible, even to duplicate that appearance with trickery.
Keep in mind, the IOBs are "slow".
They seek us out, because we can speed them up.
So i think poltergeist must be other type of iob that is much faster and stronger and shows less intelligence than standard iob described in books of CC. I think its what don Juan told about family which was exhausted in trying to opposite such entity and if one settle down in your house there is only one way to resolve this by leaving it.. La Gorda told their roof beams were set on fire automatically as well and objects were falling on them.
One day, someone will post all mentions of IOBs from all books, and all lecture notes. Because Techno created those.
Then, count the different types.
It should be very enlightening.
I should add, if you have more than 1 "Ally", and you don't summon a particular one, it gets harder and harder to find it.
They seem to need our energy or they can't show up easily.
And if they make the effort nightly, but you don't notice them, maybe they go back to not being interested in you.
After all, they're billions of years old, and have been rejected by humans millions of times.
But you can make them more active again by just playing with them nightly.
Then, they daily get more and more active.
Until finally, they actually shift you into their world anytime they can manage it.
Which is not a bad thing. You get charged up with their dark energy, and a half hour later in the darkroom something amazing happens.
But long after you forgot it might be because they charged you up.
That's one problem with IOBs. Intent delays. Dark energy delays.
Now here's the tricky part...
Eventually, you figure it out.
You're practicing something, look at a wall, and realize you are in one of their caves.
Not fully inside.
It's simply on the eastern wall. Or any wall, but I've seen the most on the south wall and the east wall.
You see little heads and people stuck in whatever type of cave wall you are looking at.
After a week of that, you begin to figure out, each time you see that, it's going to be "a good night" later on.
And you'll do something AMAZING, look to the side, and there's your "ally" hoping you'll give her credit.
Then, if you talk to them saying, "Thanks!"...
You just gave them "permission" to do more.
I don't know how that permission thing works, but consider that the Nagual Rosendo gave Elias and his nagual woman to the inorganic beings, and they actually took them.
They didn't have Elias' permission...
So we don't understand what "permission" really is.
If they do something, it pleases you, and you tell them, do they now have permission to do more?
Thus 2 nights ago I looked up, and I was in an IOB cave. Just barely.
I nodded to an IOB on the wall. Didn't recognize that one, but I figure it lived there with my "Ally".
A few minutes later I looked up, and I was further into their cave.
I got paranoid so I pretended not to be looking, did something else, then glanced at the wall from the side.
I was slowly moving further into their tunnels.
A bit too far for my skill level.
I had absolute knowledge of the fact that I was "almost too far in" for a male to wander without more understanding.
Could have been them reminding me, I was going further based on flimsy permission, which they were trying to solidify by having me realize it, and not stop it.
My guess is, they'll try that twice before they don't do that again, and come up with some other trick.
Did you return easily from their cave, any memory erasure effects? As i suppose the further you go the less memory about the place you came from?
So far!
Of course there's memory effects!
But there's memory effects anywhere on the Orange curve.
I learned 3 totally amazing secrets last night at the deep orange zone, started to get up to type them into chat, than realized I have to get over doing that. Because it ends your practice session.
So I wrote it in the air, using my finger. Don Juan said the principle was sound.
This morning, it's all gone.
Memory requires a "lookup index".
When you're at a distant assemblage point position, what makes sense over here, doesn't make sense over there.
There's no index possible at times.
We really need to figure out some additional universal strategies, other than thumbs up and finger writing, to address the memory issue!
And by figure out I mostly mean discover.
There's a lot of stuff we can discover to make it easier on new people.
But maybe it will take years, and hundreds of people trying it out.
I believe what I wrote in the air was "whitish order".
It seems, I'd seen a scheme to figure out where you were on the front side, based on the nature of the whitish light.
Smooth, blotchy, ruled, scrambled, phantom translocation.
There were at least 6 different ways the whitish light could look, probably 8, and each corresponded to a position on the J curve, front side of the body.
But there was even more super cool stuff.
All lost.
Like, this kind is best for entering the IOB realm. This kind automatically brings the double out.
And you can move back and forth between kinds, to improve control over your awareness.
Like an "exercise routine". Move to the ruled, then back up to the smooth, then back to ruled and forward to phantom.
And there was something about don Juan's techniques at the extreme end.
It was Lily's doing. But I had "Ally Assist" while testing if what she said works.
On first part of the J curve, you can decide where you are based on "puff quality", and the swirling blackness. It very reliable.
On the front, it seems that you can look at the whitish light to figure it out.
But we probably only have 2 or 3 besides me who can get to the actual whitish light, in the orange zone.
Could be a dark energy issue.
Lily also taught me something about that. And it's lost too.
It was good news for people who don't have an inorganic being.
Wish I could remember it.
It was something implying you could get by without dark energy, as long as you didn't expect to be doing anything dazzling.
I should add, that "lesson" from Lily, was after 10 hours of darkroom practicing.
So what happens to the people who just die and never got the chance to practice sorcery so their “normal” ass never went to a single IOB realm. Do they just remain here on the physical plane and become a ghost? How many years do they get to spend on the physical after death?
this is a question that noone can really answer from Tonal perspective correctly.
there are plenty of IOBs of all kinds. some latch to your emotions that you don't want to feel, thus blocking them. some people die in this way, cause some organs need certain energy to function properly. but the moment you release the block on the energy that creates the emotions, they are gone as well. see, it was consenting. there are stupid parasites, as well as intelligent beings interesting to sorcerers.
some are smart whisperers for the ones who don't want to take responsibility for their lives.
so they find someone to listen to.
with a touch of intelligence, you should be fine in either case. since you never jump from too high before clearing the previous level.
after death I got visited by awareness of some people. didn't comunicate, but the presence came for a short while. it was mostly straight after death or couple of days. sometimes I see awareness of unborn child from a mother who had miscarriage. truly strange.
i believe that Juan Matus said that awareness slowly dissipates for 500 years before it is gone. i guess we will all see once we die.
Dude this stuff is blowing my mind for real
The line between organic and inorganic is gossamer, I think. Not everything one encounters has your best interests at heart. And everything hunts, in its own way. However, I think if you are strong and together (ie, impeccable) you are building up enough defense not to be swallowed up by just anything...
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