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What exactly is the foreign installation / predator?
Flyers (counter intent)
Do you think the foreign installation / flyer / predator / ego / mudshadow/ infection is a type of inorganic being? Or is it some type of spiritual parasite that is different than the inorganic beings? If it is different than the inorganic beings, then don't you think the inorganic beings are infected with it also?
I also wonder if the eagle (which I consider to be like the demiurge) is also infected and that is why it is creating predatory parasitic realities?
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I haven't had enough direct experience to say anything for certain.
As far as I can tell, the human species has been tempered with, accelerating our evolution by receiving some sort of boost from an outside source.
I also think whatever this outside source is, likely appeared here on Earth in a physical form.
The human condition of anxiety driven seeking behavior, homicidal spurts, and obsessive mental games seems a part of this deal.
The Eagle doesn't strike me as a singular being, but rather a conglomerate of all worlds, all perception potentials and realities.
The beings who altered us seem different than the IOBs. As I shared earlier, I feel that they were physically present with humanity at one point.
Humans seem particularly perfect for the 'flyers' due to our ability to stalk, holding a configuration of emanations together as a world so strongly. This was probably of great use to the flyers, and perhaps aided them in becoming physical beings.
was that outside source the eagle itself or something the eagle has created ? as far as i can understamd from the books the eagle is the power ruling humans and once each dies he gets devoured by that power unless the person found an opening to the other world and a sorcery crew .
if that is the case why would the eagle create outside sources that could temper with human behavior such as anxiety , homicidal spurts , obsessive mental games ect ect ? or those sources are another power distinguished of the eagle and not created by the eagle ?
if there is more info on this in the books then just let me know its in the books and ill wait till ill get there
Swimming in your syntax of your mother tongue...Castaneda has warned us it doesn't get us anywhere and this is a practitioner's forum not a philosopher's one. What's the point in demonstrating arguments full of hidden fallacies and let others speculate on them with more hidden fallacies? That is the opposite of stopping the internal dialogue to begin with...
me personally i cant shut down my internal dialogue yet , i am still reading the books currently the eagle’s gift .
if there is no reason to understand the terms of the books and its content like the eagle for example which i have asked about , whats the point of teaching new beginners at all ? plus i am seeing dan9 , hanksey , techno intent and others that have no problem in getting a bit philosophical and explaining stuff to their deep matter as long as the topic is castaneda related … if i dont understand the eagle how ill even understand all those IOB’s u guys talk about and other terms which requires some internal dialogue to understand their meaning ?
Depends on what do you mean "understand". See you want to... Understand the Eagle. But the books are not about understanding they are about seeing and navigating the unknown. And no one not even Dan can explain what they see in their trips. They can try to describe or draw it. But not explaining it. That is why it's called unknown. If you put it into words you make it known in fact, if you can describe your experiences in the Nagual then you know they are simply made up by you. On the other hand for sorcerer's understanding means you are able to experience something with the totality of your existence which logic has a pretty small part in it. Why are you trying to make the Eagle so small as to fit in a tiny part of yourself considering that you are a tiny part of the Eagle?
u didnt quite get me if you think im belittling the concept of the eagle just by trying to understand what it is in the first place .
i was simply asking a question about the eagle i wasent trying to fit in any tiny part what so ever .
i understand that logic is a part of the tonal but i dont have allies and i dont see any moving lights in the dark currently , and i did say this already ... meaning i am yet to look in the unknown of the book , i started reading it and enjoyed it so much that i continued ... came across this sub only when i read tales of power , i didnt get to the book because of the unknown .. im only in the sixth book anyway .
i wasent asking for anyones description of a trip to the unknown ... i understand that for you this is useless by now cuz u are familliar with the stuff , but for me understanding terms first is useful , and i guess the wiki here is just for this kinds of reasons as well .
it is not about understanding it to belittle it or anything like u said ...
in order to pursue what is goin on around here in this sub i cant just read anything that is being said and not even ask a simple question because logic is a part of the tonal and that a person needs to experience something with the totality of existence ... how will i experience it in totality if i dont know what it is im experiencing ?
Maybe this forum is here for you to understand. For me it is to take concrete guidance about sorceric practices from people who where students of Castaneda and were taught these practices first handed, something that I have been looking all my life. For me that is priceless. I am not a moderator of this forum and I never pretented to be something more than what I am: Just a guy that spent 30 years trying to act in the world of sorcery. You seem agitated over my little contribution in this interesting discussion. I have seen this attitude in philosophical forums where people are trying to pass their time comparing the sharpness of their mind while pretending they learning stuff and trust me it gets them nowhere. I am sorry if I offended you but in the mean time if you say you read the books and you mean it, look carefully how Carlos is
at first approaching this knowledge and how he is being constantly discouraged by Don Juan . How many times he wants to understand and the answer is always : " there is nothing to understand, a warrior acts instead." Understanding, progress, method, steps, guidance are all just syntactical confections useful maybe in the frame of the mundane.
i can promise u im not here to show myself or others i got the more sharpened mind ... im only 23 , most folk around here probably already did two times of that . u didnt offend me and i hope i didnt as well as that was for sure not my intention .
i did notice how don juan always told carlos there is no use for talking about the stuff , and how don genero was doin all those weird moves to show him its no use talking , and i will take what u said to heart , but ill need some time truly adapting to that way , like i said im in quite of an early phase of the castaneda teachings . that was only the reason for my question
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/wiki/eagle
You'll read all about it in the books as well, so don't stress it.
Plus it's way, way beyond comprehension. The Eagle is not just unknown, but unknowable, so don't worry about not understanding.
A spirit coyote doesn't understand anything, being unable to think as humans do, but that doesn't prevent one from being in the second attention.
Speculation won’t serve you well.
Whatever they are or aren’t (or even if they are at all, at least in the ways we suspect), is irrelevant if your concern over them isn’t motivating you to ACTUALLY change.
This is why people with an horrendous internal dialogue are in a better position to succeed with sorcery.
Too much speculation is actually harmful imo. When you're questioning reality, it can destroy sobriety to have your mind all over the place with different theories.
This will disappoint you, but it's just your inner-dialog made of self-importance and self-pity.
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/wiki/flyers
I don’t trust Those guys claiming demiurge
And matrix or prison planet earth and ET or whatever they make up. they’re really faking a lot of things for attention like prostitutes seeking to con you.
If you choose to become a Nagual, stop looking for whom to blame for your Tonal.
I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can answer this better....
The Eagle is ALL possible emanations and worlds.
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The fliers are inorganic beings who come from the Pleiades star system.
We can go there to see them, but the inorganic being who taught me how ("Lily"), blocked me. She showed me they trap visitors in cages, and even dropped the cage in front of me to examine.
The cages aren't unusual. My inorganic being "Fancy" likes to scare me with cages.
Carlos and Carol almost got trapped by a fancier cage. A "shack".
So no need to speculate, you can go see for yourself!
As to the rest, you haven't studied the books enough to understand it.
No point in explaining.
Try the real thing if you want to understand it.
But you'll need more "sobriety".
You are in short supply.
It's one of the 4 qualities Carlos says are mandatory, if we want to follow his last minute instructions, from the "Silent Knowledge" publication.
Maybe you should start by reading that.
So, unlike before, do you believe in the existence of fliers?
Unfortunately, when you reach Silent Knowledge you realize "true or not true" isn't as easy to tell as we were led to believe.
So there's truly "something" out there, trying to suppress magic.
That's clear from the horrible new people who have come just today! The pictures got too spectacular, and they showed up to stop us.
We've seen it over, and over, and over again.
It's in response to posts being more and more magical. High magic content in posts, leads to invasions. It's proven at this point.
Carlos warned us about that himself! In private classes, at least 3 times. His magic number for telling important things to people.
Now, when you are off in a phantom realm that may or may not exist, it doesn't really matter if it does. It's for learning, not for writing a book!
So for instance, my "Dream Bubble Station" is intended to be a transportation hub.
And transportation hubs DO in fact always have a "lost and found".
Might just be a drawer under the cash register, but they have to have one.
And when I realized that, a "lost and found" materialized in my dream bubble station.
Also, a witch tossed me those binoculars, so I tried them out.
And realized, of course they will work. That's the very nature of sorcery.
So, and hopefully you can follow this, if Carlos noticed the organized attacks on real magic, he might have decided to "intend it to be a thing you can fight back against with a concrete idea of what it really is."
Which means, he could actually bring the fliers into existence. So that we could deal with the endless attacks we'd inevitably face, as a single "thing".
Thus more effective.
BUT, you worry me.
Bad players tend to be obsessed with the fliers, because it gets them a lot of attention, and they can troll for sympathy.
But experience shows, those seriously interested in "the fliers" never learn any sorcery.
Never.
We've had at least 2 in here for years, who never learned a thing. But they pipe in with warnings about fliers and dangers from time to time.
It's the intent of attention seeking.
We can't afford much of that in here.
It's "the flier's mind".
So check yourself out, and if it's true you really only want to hang out, go elsewhere.
Give magic a chance, or you'll be part of "the fliers", whatever they really are.
But as a curious topic, it's perfectly valid.
I wanted to go see for myself, but mad prophet's ally stopped me.
It's true that trying to understand these concepts is limiting, and a part of our 'flyer's mind'.
Practice silence. Be diligent with yourself. Notice your self importance and override it. Keep practicing gazing. Go for silencing walks. Everyone has their own time and techniques that break through their tonal beliefs.
For me it was sky gazing during the day. What I saw was incredible and incomprehensible. But it was the breadcrumb on the path that kept me practicing.
Like you, I asked everyone I could about the wierd shiny squiggles in the sky. That was no use.
The squiggles!
I drew that a few times.
I never felt all that successful in my representation of them, but other folks enjoyed them and indicated it reminded them of what they've seen in sky-gazing, despite my very slight irritation at not being able to quite get it perfect.
I have yet to see a version of the representation of what you saw sky gazing (pink and purple waves). At this point, I get the squiggles, which seem to coalesce into pulsing waves, those waves further 'bind' together to form some sort of tunnel. That tunnel has yet to be explored. Have you had a similar experience.
Fucking cool!
Yep. I've seen the tunnel.
I've also seen fast pulsing pink and purple cloudy patches, and other times persistent pink and purple blotches.
The fast pulsing ones are usually present when I've been driving in inner-silence for hours, and don't need the squiggle precursors.
I feel like I'm reaching a sort of point of 'no return'. I crave the inner Silence, I crave seeing, I crave silent knowledge.
Do you feel that some sorcerers are more attuned to sky gazing, while others DR gazing?
DR gazing seems to have a deepening effect on my seeing, while sky gazing seems to have some sort of integration effect on me.
So quickly we get to places no one can advise about!
You make a solid observation - it's definitely the case for sorcerers to be naturally more attuned or have a greater affinity for certain practices than others, even in what is being gazed.
We all have slightly different life experiences that have activated slightly different emanations, not to mention slightly different features of the luminous body.
This is actually why in this setting, given our levels of knowledge, it's impossible to advise others. The best anyone can do here is to encourage others to explore these many practices themselves, using themselves as a test subject in the ultimate experiment.
Makes total tonal sense, thank you.