Don Juan, and later Carlos, told certain members of their respective groups that their “pecker was only for peeing” or to stay away from men and the energy worms they can deposit in their womb/uterus.
This was after using seeing (silent knowledge) to repeatedly observe the overall state of their energy of awareness.
These statements were neither capricious nor judgmental, but pragmatic, and had everything to do with an apprentice’s innate capacity to direct their attention; and, consequently, their ability to generate traction on the path.
We must be sure to avoid the Eastern or Hindu explanations for why celibacy is needed. Specifically, that it has anything at all to do with “saving your ch’i,” or your “kundalini force.”
That’s just a primitive/religious way to describe biochemical energy. Adenosine Triphosphate.
Not that refraining from excessively wasting that wouldn’t have a beneficial effect. It just won't turn you into an actual sorcerer! Though, with the ego you’re likely to generate, you may be able to fool the gullible into believing you’re a kundalini magic man with “so much ch’i”.
Since that’s what you’d be compelled into proving.
Conversely, in Nagualist Sorcery, energy is always about the quality and flexibility of our awareness. Our ability to focus on something outside of the self. To pay attention to that which society conditions us to persistently ignore, or reject as unseemly or unprofitable.
The second attention.
And sorcerers who can see energy directly, are able to discern that certain individuals are unable to pursue both sex and all of the courtship and mating behavior attached to it, without being dulled and distracted to the point where there is nothing left with which to pursue sorcery.
To learn it, by doing.
While other individuals, are able to use sex to increase their awareness; usually as a means of “getting out of their own heads,” by focusing on someone else…without also getting intensely drawn into extraneous compulsions, dramas and insecurities.
Example of the former, not the later 🤣
Low energy individuals, in this sense, are those who are less capable of regulating their own emotional investments; the outward expression of which, being certain perceivable qualities of their glow of awareness.
And are the same people who can wind-up believing that "love is the meaning of life," when it's only a part of it.
Such individuals can console themselves with knowing that just as physical exercise improves strength and flexibility, sorcery practice improves the quality and flexibility of one’s awareness; to the extent that if they have evolved, by putting in the time and sincere effort, such advised limitations on sexual behavior become unnecessary.
***
This is has been filed at the bottom of the "Personal Power" wiki page.
51 Comments
This is one of the most interesting topics within the work. However, I remember reading that Don Juan specifically mentioned that dreamers should practice celibacy while that didn’t apply to stalkers. Considering how much of a sexual libertine Nagual Julian was, it doesn’t seem that anyone could reach “the point where there is nothing left with which to pursue sorcery”. There is one more thing that rings a bell, but I am not certain if that concerns this particular point, but Don talked about being empty… Furthermore, the worm part is only mentioned in one of the witch’s books and it pertains to women only. I don’t know if homosexuals can store worms in their butthole 🤣.
Now, let’s talk about the practical part. How are we, the average beginner Joes, to discern whether sexual activity is of any benefit to us or if it would be best that we leave it alone altogether. None of us has a guide to correct us and give us advice. Well, some have achieved silent knowledge level, but it is obvious that I am asking in the name of the majority.
I would argue that if you're that persistently interested in it, that you shouldn't be having it.
Preoccupations are what we're striving to rid ourselves of.
This is all I've ever posted on it, and likely never will again. It was prompted by content that was likely from the parallel (second attention) "phantom subreddit." Meaning I clearly remember seeing the core ideas in a comment from u/danl999 while awake no more than 3 days ago, but can't find any electronic record of it anywhere, after exhaustive searching.
And Dan doesn't remember writing it either.
And
Watch out there...
Posting causes the flow of intent.
I've been verifying that over and over lately.
Last night for example, I was viewing the second attention as speckled, but then having posted about how it can switch to having lines and no speckles, I was able to turn my head and view the lines.
Then I turned back to see if the speckles were still there in the direction I turned away from, and there were swirls...
What happened was, my posting about how the second attention background could change, and that different "looks" have different uses, intent had been activated, to show me more.
And then around 4 hours later (I practiced quite a long time last night), I got to see time running backwards.
And learned that we deliberately view time as something that passes by us, and never returns.
When in fact, that's not the only way to view it.
Naturally, I got a bit paranoid about who actually influenced the writers of Star Wars...
Our attention is not an unlimited resource.
Attention deficiency is definitely a thing! Especially in the internet age.
I'd really like to see that verified passage. I'd wager that's you're misinterpreting, perhaps several passages put together in your mind.
I am repeating myself, but you conveniently missed my point about benefactor Julian. If that guy was able to get back on the path, then there is hope for basically anyone. I have never even heard of a similar story in my whole life, nothing was even close.
Attention span is decreasing significantly due to the wrongful use of technology.
While I can’t find the exact chapter and paragraph, I am sure this “emergency guy” can do that for you. In any case, I will try to find it myself as I would also wager some on that memory of mine.
Yes, there is hope for basically anyone, as long as they practice. The Nagual Julian had no other option other than to practice, otherwise he would die from tuberculosis.
I'd also like to see the exact chapter/s and paragraph/s because I don't know what is leading you to think of it as stalkers vs dreamers.
Huh, now you put me in the fire. I was expecting you, the walking Castaneda’s encyclopedia, to cite it right of the top of your head. Nevertheless, I am still confident that I will find that part. The problem lies in the fact that I don’t know with which book to start but “the art of dreaming” sounds about right.
No the problem is that it is more likely you are misinterpreting it. I am fairly certain I know what you are thinking of, but it explains it in the context why it matters.
Could be, I will try to find the exact spot where I believe it says something along the lines of what I stated.
He’s actually helpful, and if you’re paying attention you’ll get redirected and corrected.
Are you referring to emergency total guy? If so, then yes, he is definitely the friendliest and most down to earth mod in here. No unnecessary gibberish, no bashing, no tiresome examples and stories, no poetic and clumsy commentary, just constructive advice.
Ya he’s ok
If you don't know which book to start, you have to acquire all the books and lay them in front of you. You then you have to feel which book feels like the one that you should read. This art is an art of feeling, and then figuring out what those feelings mean, and then solidifying that what you know if really what you know and that it couldn't be anything else.
Hi TheDonGenaro, did you got the answer for your first request?
From The Fire from Within
"Is it from the moment of conception or from the moment of birth that awareness develops?"
I asked
."Awareness develops from the moment of conception," he replied. "I have always told you that sexual energy is something of ultimate importance and that it has to be controlled and used with great care. But you have always resented what I said, because you thought I was speaking of control in terms of morality; I always meant it in terms of saving and rechanneling energy."
Don Juan looked at Genaro. Genaro nodded his head in approval.
"Genaro is going to tell you what our benefactor, the nagual Julian, used to say about saving and rechanneling sexual energy," don Juan said to me.
"The nagual Julian used to say that to have sex is a matter of energy," Genaro began. "For instance, he never had any problems having sex, because he had bushels of energy. But he took one look at me and prescribed right away that my peter was just for peeing. He told me that I didn't have enough energy to have sex. He said that my parents were too bored and too tired when they made me; he said that I was the result of very boring sex, cojida aburrida. I was born like that, bored and tired. The nagual Julian recommended that people like me should never have sex; this way we can store the little energy we have.
"He said the same thing to Silvio Manuel and to Emilito. He saw that the others had enough energy. They were not the result of bored sex. He told them that they could do anything they wanted with their sexual energy, but he recommended that they control themselves and understand the Eagle's command that sex is for bestowing the glow of awareness."
....
"It is the Eagle's command that sexual energy be used for creating life. Through sexual energy, the eagle bestows awareness. So when sentient beings are engaged in sexual intercourse, the emanations inside their cocoons do their best to bestow awareness to the new sentient being they are creating.
"He said that during the sexual act, the emanations encased inside the cocoon of both partners undergo a profound agitation, the culminating point of which is a merging, a fusing of two pieces of the glow of awareness, one from each partner, that separate from their cocoons.
"Sexual intercourse is always a bestowal of awareness even though the bestowal may not be consolidated," he went on. "The emanations inside the cocoon of human beings don't know of intercourse for fun."
......
All I know is what it means to warriors.They know that the only real energy we possess is a life-bestowing sexual energy. This knowledge makes them permanently conscious of their responsibility ."If warriors want to have enough energy to see, they must become misers with their sexual energy. That was the lesson the nagual Julian gave us. He pushed us into the unknown, and we all nearly died. Since everyone of us wanted to see, we, of course, abstained from wasting our glow of awareness."
These sounds like your own ideas about the topic Techno; or does it stem from seeing? The definition you give of the second attention seems also to be yours. How did you reach these interpretations?
See the above comment, for notes on development.
And our Second Attention wiki page starts with a selection of posts from the subreddit, a passage from the books, a write-up from Dan, and ends with a two paragraph summation from me.
Why is "the second attention" a mystery to you, after finding this place?
It's a beginner's experience. Or should be.
It's really not even a big deal. Or a great accomplishment.
Reaching the second attention only indicates, you aren't pretending anymore.
But won't last. If you don't reach it daily, the knowledge evaporates rapidly.
And the path to full sorcery skills, is still thousands of miles long.
"The Second Attention" is just the first 100 feet of that path.
It was just this definition I reacted to: ”Our ability to focus on something outside of the self. To pay attention to that which society conditions us to persistently ignore, or reject as unseemly or unprofitable.”
That's definitely something you can only see from experience.
Until someone posts it...
We might honestly say, this subreddit has become the second attention.
To what extent, we don't yet know.
And just like the second attention, if everyone withdraws their attention from it, it will return to just being another ordinary subreddit.
But right now, it actually alters the flow of reality.
Especially when new things are posted.
None of that is surprising.
Carlos even commented that was a result of his workshops (as much of a practical failure as they actually were), he had access to "energetic configurations" that even don Juan hadn't known about.
I've taken to posting experiences inappropriate for this subreddit, in the advanced one.
And found that in fact, that alters my practice the next night.
Significantly...
Which reminds me... I had an unknown entity circling around me last night, showing off various "looks" she might be able to sustain for me.
🧚🏼♂️
That is true, while having relations I can see dots of purple/blue all over with a sensation of "feeling high", but you have pour your attention completely to your partner and ride that "state".
What about those worms though? I've heard about them before. Do they affect someway? Can you eradicate them?
From chapter 5 of The Sorcerer's Crossing:
(continued in next comment)
(continued)
(continued)
It goes both ways right? A lot of times while doing something with a certain mood let say "happily working" I would get a sudden feeling, see it arise out of nowhere, no immediate situation provoking it, like sadness followed by memories of an ex, ... and for my surprise she will contact me after.
I see... recap, recap, recap!!
Logic would lead one to assume, yes.
Also, members of the lineage used every maneuver they could deploy, including sex, to establish energetic ties with each other, in order to foster cohesiveness of purpose and action.
I mean they were going against the grain of the entire waking world, after all! Just as we are, on our own. So if you find someone with common purpose, and outlook, I wouldn't be as worried about severing ties.
It's being tied to a douchebag, be they male or female, that's a problem!
Clara clearly states above that the "energetic worms" also hook the man to the woman, making him dependent emotionally, as part of the biological imperative to perpetuate the species.
I'd also add that this is not the only way to look at sex, love, relationships etc, but this is from a sorcery perspective, and therefore is a stark and rather brutal accounting of energetic facts.
Also, in chapter 7 of Stalking With The Double:
And chapter 15:
Make him pull out….no worms, no problem.
Off-topic. I’m talking subtle perception, not your browser history.
😂😂😂hope you had a laugh. Your reply gave me one. Cheers
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Damn i was thinking about this exact topic yesterday a few mins before you posted but im still confuse, so it all depends on ur parents wether sex drains you or not?😂
It's not necessarily the act of sex in of itself that is completely draining, but the ultimate outcome does drain a human being. It's a mechanism that releases one's energies.
>had everything to do with an apprentice’s innate capacity to direct their attention;
That can be taken a different way, which I don't have any qualifications to do since Carlos made me celibate and I don't really know how the whole sex thing affects practicing darkroom.
But Cholita believes she gains energy with sex.
Not that she has any sex, as far as I know. I can't imagine any men not fleeing for their lives after realizing she's not like other women.
BUT, this statement could be interpreted to mean that if you get involved in sex you get pulled into a normal lifestyle and won't be able to focus your attention anywhere else, in a sustained fashion.
Which the OP noticed also and elaborated on it.
And in agreement with that, when Carlos was asked if there were other sorcerers in Mexico (as a result of his books?), he replied, "No. No one was willing to change their lifestyle."
That's the main thing that prevents beginners who come here, from learning.
They literally CAN'T practice darkroom on a regular basis, because their living circumstances won't allow it.
Thus I'm of the opinion, don't change anything. That's just a placebo to make you feel like you are accomplishing great things, when in fact you never get around to putting in any real work.
You just give up donuts (as an example).
We had a new guy like that a couple of weeks ago, who even got himself a fancy sorcerer's lineage user ID name, to make sure everyone knew how serious he was.
But then he read an old post about how you don't need to give up drinking, marijuana, or anything else, and all you really need is to get to work, right now, he freaked out.
His sorcery was all about pretending and giving up things (until no one is watching). But doing actual work, wasn't on his todo list.
However, with both sex and intoxicants the less the better as far as vividness of your experiences goes. Those aren't enough to prevent reaching the second attention, and moving your assemblage point, but they will make it harder, and less vivid.
Since this could be confusing to some, here's a bit of clarification.
If you alter your behavior from a desire to either appear to be a changed person, either to others or yourself, that's only a superficial affectation.
Since it didn't spring from any actual shifting of where the bulk of your attentiveness is directed.
The self.
Or to put it more bluntly, your reasons are fucked.
Your intent. Which is beyond important in the process of sorcery practice.
Outward behavioral changes should always come AFTER, to avoid such minefields as this:
Or this.
Got to be practical as usual. I was taught a breath, I think from yoga, it was taught in an online workshop by Open Wing/Gammadian and his wife Ena. Quite simple, intend/visualize lifting energy from the sexual center up to the third eye (you can visualize it going up the spine as in the well known circle breath). Inhale intending this while contracting the perineum, end this inhalation by jolting the energy upwards. That's it. I was surprised at how effective this is in apparently doing what they say it does: lift sexual energy to upper vital centers, making it available for other uses/concerns. It makes you less horny actually. Useful for me as I most certainly am a bored fuck. (Ena taught another breath that kinda pumps energy to the genital area and sort of prepares for sex). The passes for the face balance energy betweem vital centers, it seems because the 'meridians' in the palms connect to all of them. Not doing passes also seem to me to balance energy.
I would refrain from thinking of it as the third eye, and just called it an energy center.
One among many. Or bring the attention up to the center for decisions, etc. , instead.
And if you were forcing good silence during, you can synchronize a Tensegrity arm movement with it and not have to visualize.
Okay. It is just a breath. I learned to count to seven while doing the inhalation btw.
Agree about 'third eye', I was just quoting how it was presented. I don't need this breath now and use it little, maybe I should cut it from my not doing session - in which it gets synchronized with a Sergio Magana sequence.
What?
It's very silly to have two teachers, you should make a decision:
"Oh, it's you," he said, smiling. "How's Juan?"
"He's fine. But how are you, don Elias?"
He did not answer. He seemed to be nervous. Overtly he was very composed, but I felt that he was ill at ease.
"Has Juan sent you here on some sort of errand?"
"No. I came here by myself."
"What in the world for?"
His question seemed to betray very bona fide surprise.
"I just wanted to talk to you," I said, hoping to sound as casual as possible. "Don Juan has told me marvelous things about you and I got curious and wanted to ask you a few questions."
Sacateca was standing in front of me. His body was lean and wiry. He was wearing khaki pants and shirt. His eyes were half-closed; he seemed to be sleepy or perhaps drunk. His mouth was open a bit and his lower lip hung. I noticed that he was breathing deeply and seemed to be almost snoring. The thought came to me that Sacateca was undoubtedly plastered out of his mind. But that thought seemed to be very incongruous because only a few minutes before, when he came out of his house, he had been very alert and aware of my presence.
"What do you want to talk about?" he finally said.
His voice was tired; it was as though his words dragged after each other. I felt very uneasy. It was as if his tiredness was contagious and pulling me.
"Nothing in particular," I answered. "I just came to chat with you in a friendly way. You once asked me to come to your house."
''Yes, I did, but it's not the same now."
"Why isn't it the same?"
"Don't you talk with Juan?"
"Yes, I do."
"Then what do you want with me?"
"I thought maybe I could ask you some questions?"
"Ask Juan. Isn't he teaching you?"
"He is, but just the same I would like to ask you about what he is teaching me, and have your opinion. This way I'll be able to know what to do."
"Why do you want to do that? Don't you trust Juan?"
"I do."
"Then why don't you ask him to tell you what you want to know?"
"I do. And he tells me. But if you could also tell me about what don Juan is teaching me, perhaps I will understand better."
"Juan can tell you everything. He alone can do that. Don't you understand that?"
"I do, but then I'd like to talk with people like you, don Elias. One does not find a man of knowledge every day."
"Juan is a man of knowledge."
"I know that."
"Then why are you talking to me?"
"I said I came to be friends,"
"No, you didn't. There is something else about you this time."
Okay, so TLDR, less grinding lol and more of an actual grind, got it, hahaha.
It definitely does wreck you, for me, it triggers migraines. Actually, the tensegrity can trigger it as well. So, I am not surprised that sexual energy and Dreaming energy is linked. When Don Juan mentioned that in the books, it was clear to me.
Hi. Im new in this i dont want be sorcery just to have some knowledge becouse i love lucid dreams and sings which leads me there.. im sorry for bad english and wrong topic, and its not just lucid dream also something what attract me but i cant explain it with words.
I just have problem i want marry someone but dont have lucky in reality .. can some part of teaching and tehnique can help me?
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Sex ruins everything 100 percent of the time. You can either live a free and happy life, or you can go chase other people's genitals. I wish it weren't that simple. But it is. If there is anything to be gained by sex, it certainly doesn't outweigh the freedom and pleasure of celibacy. If your'e strong and disciplined enough, though. I was a major poon hound, always on the chase. Had more sex than probably 10 people in a lifetime and it was almost always a new person. Singer of a popular regional rock band for a couple decades, blah blah blah. Being celibate 3 years now, I can promise as someone who tells almost no one this fact about this so called me, this is by far the happiest I've ever been and the most flow I have seen out of life. I feel almost unstoppable. Take it for what it's worth, I could care a less. But this subject matters to me.....almost. Great topic, there should be tons more on this. I'm currently reading Don Juan and The Art of Sexual Energy:The Rainbow Serpent of the Toltecs -Maya Tunneshende. One word, AMAZING. This and recapping could literally be a lifetime of work. Regardless of sorcery.