It becomes more obvious to me everyday, the position of our assemblage point determines how we feel.
How crummy, versus how wonderful.
Don Juan let us know in Carlos' books. He changed back into a senile old man, and it was so realistic that Carlos was thinking about dropping him off somewhere, just to get rid of him.
In a couple of other places, it was Carlos who had changed back to his old self. While witnessing miracles done by don Juan and his party, Carlos started to complain.
Don Juan said, "Up from your toes!", and he was able to repair himself.
We also know that Carlos spent a huge amount of time learning with Zuleica and Silvio.
Entire nights of practice, for weeks.
But he was in heightened awareness, so we don't hear even a mention of him getting bored.
It's natural to think that if you daily move into heightened awareness, that you are "improving yourself".
Most esoteric (magical or religious) techniques teach you, this is what happens.
You "perfect" yourself.
But with sorcery, IT'S NOT SO!
It's all about the position of the assemblage point.
Move back to your original position, and you become the same unhappy idiot we all are.
And it moves back on its own, if you stop practicing for even a day.
And while an idiot, if you move it back to heightened awareness again, you're instantly back to what's the equivalent of Buddhist Enlightenment (a basic low level I've been warned).
In terms of experience, sitting in darkness at the regular position of the assemblage point you'll feel fussy, sore, tired, and bored. If there are any colors to see in that darkness, they'll be so vague they make you feel bad for even noticing them.
Move back to heightened awareness, and the room will be buzzing with magic. Intense colors, dreams floating around, inorganic beings visiting, and portals to other worlds opening up for you.
The crummy position is your "Island of the Tonal".
Heightened awareness is the Island of the Tonal, plus access to the second attention.
It's still possible to be miserable and fussy, but all you have to do is realize it, and you can drop it.
De-emphasize it, since you have much better things to consider once the second attention is at your service.
But how to modify the Island of the Tonal?
How to fix the crummy position of the assemblage point, knowing we're all stuck there often?
That's the point here. Not how to shift the assemblage point.
But how to repair the Island of the Tonal so that it's not so horrible.
Only recapitulation does that.
(Ok, plus impeccability, but don't tell anyone I said that.)
Recapitulation alters the emphasis.
One image doesn't lead to another, in an endless thought loop. Stuff just shows up, and you can let it go.
And since my goal here is just one thing, to restore the reputation of Carlos, I'll mention a point that's related to this.
"Experts" on stuff, complained that Carlos kept adding things to sell books.
As if it were all a random collection of stolen techniques.
Carlos even mentioned, in private classes, that the biggest scam you could pull off is to start your own religion. He was discussing a party he attended, where L. Ron. Hubbard had told him just that.
Later, I heard a former European private class student ("Expert") say, Carlos should talk!
Recapitulation is just Scientology auditing.
Just some junk he added on. Some pop psychology nonsense.
But it's not.
If you practice moving the assemblage point, you realize the inevitability of needing recapitulation.
The absolute need for it!
And to move the assemblage point only takes silence, and time.
Pretty much all of Carlos' techniques flow inevitably from one thing:
Silence
Edited
69 Comments
Is there anybody left in your life that you feel "tied" to in any way? Besides Cholita?
I assume you are at a point in your life, that there are very few people who directly impact your life on any meaningful energetic level.
There are only doorways.. lol
I don't think about things like that.
It's a form of mental masturbation most of the time.
A mental book deal.
"The lonely Toltec traveler!"
What a book!
Armando's audience would eat it up.
Another romantic trip to pacify yourself with, so you don't have to think about actually doing some work.
It's just not good to encourage that type of thinking.
Carlos was plagued with it.
He even had to address it in his last books.
I guess people's neediness had amplified it to the point that he had to encourage people not to worry about that.
It's one of the core tenets of Recapitulation.
I asked from Seer's perspective, not nostalgia.
Core tenet?
Carlos banned me from reading his books.
Can you tell me where that's from?
I sure don't remember reading that anywhere.
How many of his books did you read, honestly? I've seen enough of your posts; you've sprinkled in tidbits here and there from virtually all his books.
I don't think you need to adhere to some mental barrier that prevents you from ever going back and revisiting words or texts. Even if Carlos forbade you... are you not a bit of a rebel? aha.
But if you don't have to, or want to, then don't. (I wouldn't turn Carlos's books into a bogeyman though. They might get up and walk around at night, pestering you! )
You know all this, but.... The basis for Recapitulation is to dissolve (and reclaim) the energetic links between you and the prominent people in your life. Many people read that and think it's a bad thing, or a "mean" thing to do, like you are spitting on your memories or something, tossing them into the fire, or the black abyss, LEAVING THEM...
You are.
But more so, you are actually giving them the honor, the weight, the nostalgia, credit, etc. they are due by reabsorbing them, and then shedding them like a snake skin.
And then when you think about your memories years later, you can FEEL the difference in them. They take on the quality exactly like you describe when viewing dreams in your darkroom... It's like they are detached scenes, floating miniscreens with characters in them, while YOU, the observer, are outside looking in. Detached, and amused at the scene. Or laconic, or spiteful, or frightful, angry, shocked, amazed, bored, etc. etc.
At that point, any emotional connection to ANY scene becomes clues into a deeper Recapitulation. Why do you FEEL anything towards a vision? Those are probes from an even deeper source within your fibers.
(It took me a long time to get used to the idea of Recapitulation being fun. It's more of a redefining of the word itself at a certain point in the progression... It does not have to be the rigid list in hand and the sweating out of your foreign energy... At a certain point it becomes far less a self analysis, and much more of a journey of the assemblage point, exactly the same as dreaming, but coming at it from another vector.)
And then the question becomes "Who are You?"
If you stabilized your perceptual foundation, and are able to withstand the pressures of the Second Attention raining down on you, then you would be No One, and you would love it. A point of steady, self contained awareness in a raging sea of chaos.
If you are not "tied" to anyone, that is not a romantic notion, that is a strategic maneuver. Don Juan said a seer touches the world lightly, barely making an imprint.
Those ties look like the ropes of the anchors of a hot air balloon, tethering its basket to the earth while the fire rages and the balloon expands and strains, lifting itself off the ground and raising itself to sky, huffing for elevation, altitude, but not making headway.
Snip those ropes.
Once all that BS is out of the way, travel commences. New connections can be made. Ones that you consciously construct, drawing from the identity of No One. If you want to.
Like Seer to Seer networks.
I think carlos knew what he was doing, and this way dani999 would have developed naturally instead of being on research modes in his books like the rest of us.
I very much appreciate his years of experience
My experience with recapitulation has taught me that not only does it dissolve and reclaim energy links but it sets up a certain degree of insight into future behaviour.
This is basically stalking 101.
This past week I encountered a little tiny petty tyrant and literally because I had recently recapitulated similar past encounters I had the energy to take control of the situation very easily.
What could have turned ugly just ended up with the tyrant feeling superior and me laughing all the way through.
All of them, many times.
He stopped me because we were in private classes, and the books were creating "book deals" in our minds, which were harming our ability to learn.
Carol Tiggs did something similar.
It's inevitable if you actually learn sorcery, instead of posturing and pretending.
You want someone else to learn, but quickly find out everyone is lost in a mental prison which prevents them from actually doing anything.
Carlos came up with the concept of the "flier's mind", possibly so he wouldn't have to do what I'm doing right now, analyzing what type of thinking doesn't work.
People get their feelings hurt. So it's easier to just claim it's part of the fliers mind, and they can't understand.
But don't do that anyway!
Carlos controlled bathroom usage at Pandora by convincing the women that water was evil.
He controlled bad behavior among the chacmools by claiming sugar made you go bezerk (thoroughly disproven in double blind tests), so he could point out "the sugar mind" when he felt a need to correct unrelated behavior.
I obey Carlos, in order to follow his intent.
As it turns out, in here, it’s excellent. If I want to know anything, I have to ask. That leads to good discoveries.
Remember, Carlos could intend things.
Telling me to ignore it shows a lack of understanding of what’s actually going on, when you practice sorcery.
We’re following a very faint trail in the mountains. One of those rodent trails you can barely see.
If you go stomping around, turning over rocks you don’t need to, and drinking beer with your buddy Armando, you’ll lose the trail.
<The basis for Recapitulation is to dissolve (and reclaim)
I asked where you'd heard what you stated, not for an analysis of what you think it is.
Were those words writing on one of Carlos or the witches books?
New people's words are often damaging to understanding in here.
Little bad ideas added on to things. Judgements, nasty criticisms.
Stuff they picked up from sources not of Castaneda.
People don't realize just how delicate intent is.
Your description had a built in sorrow. As if Recapitulation had a negative effect.
I'd like to see where you got that from.
Just in case it's Armando or Miguel, spreading bad info. I’ve already seen the damage those 2 have done amidst all the people who private chat me.
But it's possible what you said is in there.
There are some conflicting explanations of things, as is natural when so many voices are used in a book.
For instance, the third attention has some conflicts in the books. Not that it’s untrue, just that it isn’t very clear in there.
I hope you're right, but usually when someone talks like that, their knowledge of sorcery is all pretend.
Intellectual.
Don't forget, I watched 100 of Carlos' apprentices fail.
I have a good handle on what kind of thinking produces failure.
I have a guess on what’s going on with you.
You want sorcery to be true, and have stuck to your interest, but you’re running into nay-Sayers who insist Carlos was a fraud.
In order to protect yourself, you’ve come up with this shtick.
The intellectual analysis, which doesn’t turn it’s head when it sees poop.
You face the poop head-on, even if you have to manufacture some of it.
It’s like being proud and ashamed of your Dad, all at the same time.
I saw several like that in private classes. Leigh was the most knowledgeable.
But his attitude seems to have prevented him from learning much in the long run.
Can't be sure. There's still a little secret cabal from private classes. I suspect they got nowhere, because all they do is post inspirational quotes, like a drug they're addicted to, even if they gave up.
There are no seer to seer networks out there.
Carlos looked and found none.
I looked and found none.
This is precisely the kind of thinking I try to combat in here.
Pretending. Posturing. Sharing. Analyzing.
Buddying up. Acknowledge the other guy is making progress, he'll do the same for you, you can chat and feel good, then ignore actually learning anything.
The goal of course was never to learn. Only to be known for having learned.
Being more involved in clinging to other people.
You can't learn through your inventory, or though a "network" of other sorcerers.
There are none.
The Nagual is your only hope for learning sorcery, and it's not in any network, or in any thought or analysis you can find.
It can't even be discussed (much).
Your interpretations of what I'm saying are so off. You miss the meaning. You miss the potential. And its very pessimistic. And close minded.
One rule of Stalking to keep fresh in order to counter your established beliefs:
Always act upon the basis that you know nothing, because the world will always be much more than you can ever imagine.
You are starting to sound like the Old Seers with their stilted dogma lol.
Intent is dynamic and its infinite bloom touches many realms of opportunity and futures.
Based on your interpretation of my comment (which is not what I was driving at), why do you post anything at all? This forum by its very nature is a seer to seer network. And again, I wasnt referencing that.
Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today?
> Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today?
No, but I get that from stubborn people. You're not the first to say it.
It's your intent.
You don't have the intent to learn sorcery.
You just want to show off your "expert" status.
That's ok.
I'm only a visitor here.
And everyone with an internal dialogue is a nasty person.
I am too, when I forget and it resumes.
But your "expertise" includes bogus information.
You've formed a damaging view of sorcery that will harm the little ones in here.
You've picked up a lot of garbage, in a careless fashion. From fake sources.
Because you can't tell what sounds right, and what doesn't.
How about you post about what you've actually learned to do, how you learned it, what you found that wasn't useful, and what you found that was?
Post as if you are actually interested in learning, instead of as if you already did.
Because in fact, you didn't. It's obvious.
You're too needy to have learned sorcery.
As for this being a network, I don't know what it might be.
I posted my motivations for being here as the first sentence of my first post.
They are only this: To restore the reputation of Carlos Castaneda, SO THAT HIS KNOWLEDGE IS NOT LOST.
(Or something like that.)
If it becomes obvious that I can't do that here, or if I finally succeed, I'm out of here.
No sorcerer would chat like this, unless he was up to something.
There is alot of confrontation in you.
Not sure why.
Perhaps your purpose is vague.
You like to judge more so than teach.
Castaneda's reputation does not need saving.
But if thats your plan, man. Carry on
Your technique is strange though.
Alot of unneccessary butting of heads, like this is a competition or something.
What are we competing for?
Your internal dialogue deciphers comments on this forum in a strange voice.
Because so far you have not locked into my tone.
Your tone is intellectually dishonest.
When I objected to what you said (twice) and asked where you got it from, you changed it and never answered the question.
I wanted to show others it wasn't from a Castaneda source, or be proven wrong.
Either way.
But you dodged it.
You didn't give a shit what you actually said, you only cared about how you'll look in here.
You have an actual student of Carlos here, who can assemble other worlds, has his inorganics, can stop the world, and more importantly, can teach you to do that.
And you don't have to take my word! I've written how to do those things, in step by step instructions.
At each step, you'll get a little proof. So it's not like you have to wait too long.
But you just fuss around.
And talk about internal dialogues!
I have none. This is what it looks like.
There's a reason it's called, "The place of no pity."
Because crap like you're pulling here has no effect.
Go bully someone else. Or show off to someone else.
I'm only here to help people, and you aren't interested in anything but yourself.
Experience and Knowledge are intertwined.
And one can never stop learning.
The Old Seers, while teaching their apprentices, ruthlessly forced them to adhere to their arcane rituals and to never ask questions about the meanings behind the complex processes.
Open dialogue is a freedom not to be guarded against, but to herald Intent.
Intent is not owned by anyone, nor the knowledge.
It overtakes you, and passes through.
That's what Don Juan said.
You should go back and reread my comments if you feel I did not answer your questions, but I did.
Beware the covetousness of knowledge that the Old Seers utilized.
You're a paper warrior.
And only here to get attention for yourself.
There's no desire to learn sorcery.
I won't bother with you anymore.
Try to keep the damage to other people down, by being more accurate and adding less of your own dubious ideas.
Intent is very sensitive. You can literally ruin someone else's chances with your ego.
What did you get upset about?
I'm not sure why you're dishing out false assumptions and critiques about someone you have absolutely no knowledge of.
Your character assessments make no sense.
You seem hell bent on the notion that there is only one path for sorcery. That is a complete anathema to what Don Juan said.
Isn't this forum a discussion and a sharing of experiences?
Your ability to go into illogical rages is worrisome.
I understand seers have quirks though.
I agree 100% the best scam is making a religion.
Don't get me started on Hubbard and all the people he associated with pre Scientology that are notorious scum bags.
Right now I am watching, from afar, a man create a religion. It is working to a certain degree he has a core of adherents. It's in regards to crACKSQUATCH. A subject I find very interesting.
So spend lots of time scooping and observing energy then? In the moment of course. I still don't have a full grasp on how to move the assemblage point at will and to where.
I've gotten much better at following things I see showing up into dreams. So sit there and let things go by, they latch onto one and follow it into a dream.
Anything you do, intending to learn sorcery, will have an effect somewhere.
Carlos even advised us to do nonsensical things, which required a bit of work, and suspension of disbelief.
Gazing and silence in the chair work faster, until you can get silent.
Once you can get silent, scooping colors is pretty fast.
But if you try to scoop them while not silent, the results will be worse than just returning to the chair, or doing gazing.
None of this applies to women, although they could certainly take that path, and do better than if they don't.
But they won't. That's the problem.
Cholita is an amazing sorceress.
But she wont' do anyhthing on her own, that doesn't involve her self-interests.
The only way we get to play in the dreaming worlds, is if I chase her.
Tried to catch what was screwing with my dreams last night. Waking up looking about jumping right back into the dream.
I know it was not a type I generate myself. Was anime / cartoonish. In the past when I get stuff like this I occasionally see purple masses (not fog) in the room. Could not isolate what ever it was inside the dream. I wasn't 100% lucid. Only 70% or so, thus my logic was impaired. Weird thing was it was that it spent no effort trying to scare me. Which would of immediately clicked me into full lucidity and willpower battle would of started.
These specific inorganics (using carlos wording) do not like it when I am planning on going someplace far away. Not sure why. I am heading out to cali this weekend so am thinking they / it is putting in an appearance.
It sure sounds like an IOB to me!
Of course, if it's a "being", and has no organic body, it's always technically an IOB.
It just might also be a phantom, meaning, only your intent created it.
I hope you keep this up! I don't spend enough time in that kind of dreaming.
It's actually rather clever if you think about it.
Dreaming awake is not all that hard to learn. So why would you bother with dreaming asleep?
Because it's more encompassing. Every tiny piece of your body is inside the second attention.
With waking dreaming, only what you're currently messing with is in the second attention.
For example, Fairy has taken me to her world at least 6 times.
Usually it starts to manifest on my southern wall, and Fairy flies in.
Her color changes when she crosses the threshold.
Typically I only reach in there with my arm.
So my body is in the first attention, my arm in the second attention.
But the other day, Fairy asssembled her world around me. It was not on the wall as usual.
It materialized and I was already a ways inside it. It just surrounded me.
I could see the bedroom if I turned around, but in front of me was Fairy herself.
In her home. Some hole in a weird tube or dirt mound.
In that case, I was fully submerged in the second attention.
It's very different than being halfway in.
Don't anyone get worried that the IOBs want to kidnap us!
In that case, I had specifically asked Fairy to be more close to me.
That was her answer. She took it literally.
I had only meant, don't spend all of your time with Cholita! Come see me more often.
But IOBs are a little dense I suspect. She took it literally, since I did in fact request it.
I honestly believe, they need permission.
The permission can be a mistake on your part. A careless remark.
Or it can be on purpose, such as the dreaming recommendation to find a scout, and ask it to take you to it's world.
Or, you can relinquish decision making to someone else, such as a Nagual leader, and that leader can make requests on your behalf, as far as the IOBs go.
But in sleeping dreaming, it's probably not a worry to ask them one time, since don Juan recommended it.
The problem with sleeping dreaming is, it's not going to convince anyone else that Carlos was the real thing.
No one will care what you do in your dreams.
But while awake, that can be quite convincing since it matches up with the descriptions Buddhists and Hindus give, for the cool things their most famous saints could do.
Thus my obsession, which does not have to be yours.
Remember, OBSESSION is how you get more dreaming.
The residue of your first attention, inside the dream, has to be more single minded.
It only has 5% influence, so its entire desire has to be to wake up and become lucid.
Mile's "Set up Dreaming" technique is really just intending an obsession.
But just thinking about it all day long is also an excellent way to "set up dreaming".
You don't need a stick, unless you like that kind of thing.
Perhaps Cleargreen #1 and #2 are stuck in rituals, because they haven't put in the effort to venture into new territory?
I just heard from one of their followers about Victor.
They haven't even warned students away from Armando, Miguel, and Victor????
Add no understanding of intent to my list of complaints about them.
They should have warned people off.
But in the Eastern Bloc, all of those guys are considered good sources of information!
Edited
Out of a pure curiosity? Why did you abandon it? You've had a very good article on it long time ago.
Not for everyone :)
I learned to activate the second attention that way.
But then I realized, the head falling forward is NOT a bad thing, it's a good thing.
So I switched to the chair, and trying to control how far the head fell.
The stick was good to produce concentration, and to put the body is an unstable position where you couldn't slack off.
It's like the rocks. Those hurt! You won't fall asleep with those clutched until you bruise.
But once you can look inside at your internal dialogue, and you don't get bored while shutting if off, a chair allows the longest practice sessions.
And they get very entertaining!
For example, if you see the room with your eyes closed, you can drive your chair like a car right through the wall and outside to explore dreaming.
With your forehead balanced on a stick, that's a little unlikely!
However, if you found yourself staring down the stick at a world below, I suppose you could learn to fly it, like a witches broom.
So it's equally possible to turn the stick into a magical power object used for flying.
Maybe Miles can learn that?
Which points to just one thing of importance!
An inventory of techniques isn't as useful as you'd think.
The value is mostly just to get you to try something.
At which point, you'll discover your own "secret techniques".
I'm kind of hoping a lot of you do that, post them, and eventually we realize, around 5 or 6 stand out as working for everyone, faster than the others.
Carlos was after mass.
I'm after consensus.
Since I'm battling the me-toos today, having a Victor, Miguel, and Armando putting in their own 2 cents (while taking your $20) won't get us either: mass or consensus.
They'll damage it.
I suppose Cleargreen has become imposter friendly, because they want the crossover business.
But those guys will only add to your inventory of techniques you didn't practice.
Or worse, you'll practice their garbage, and not practice what Carlos intended.
And you'll be off on the trail of a powerless phonies intent.
Thanks for the detailed response. I get what you mean and my question is fully answered.
Don't kiss butt too much.
It doesn't play in a melting pot, like the USA.
Plays well in countries where socialization has remained steady for hundreds of years.
But not in a mix.
I do business all over, and people from old countries don't realize their normal symbols of respect don't work here. They come off as phony.
The Taiwanese Bosses' son joked the other day, when I was complaining about middle eastern businessmen and their gifts of "friendship candy", that his father said Americans seem phony to him.
As if they're politeness isn't real.
With the Chinese, politeness is beaten into them.
So it's very real.
But the motives are not.
A wrong assumption. I just value other person's time and energy put into conversation, so no problem to say a simple thanks if somebody takes time to help and explain. If you feel it is extraneous or disturbs you, I will skip this part for the future conversations. And let's leave butt kissing for the fakes who value nothing :)
Cultural differences.
At least, people in other countries understand that most of the time.
Americans think this is the only culture, and everyone else needs to be pampered as if you could offend them at the drop of a hat.
They believe it comes off as inclusive, but it comes off as racist.
As if there's something wrong with not being an American.
It's curious to see in action.
I've seen people who thought they were virtue signaling anti-racist things, actually offend the person of the different race, who was about to engage in an interesting conversation with someone curious about their culture.
They shut it down, saying it's "racist".
But elsewhere, it's not so narrow minded.
I had a lovely conversation with someone from Singapore, who was frightened to death on the airplane we shared.
Turbulence.
I tried the, "What do you care if you die? You're already old." argument.
Didn't work.
So I got him to talk.
He gave me a long lecture on funny cultural differences, and the inevitable misunderstandings that happen.
Some sexy...
Did you know that in Singapore...
Better not.
Yeah. I used to work on the same projects with people from USA, Scotland, India, Russia, Baltic countries, Ukraine.. And yes, differences can be just huge.
In some case an innocent common joke which is okay for you can be a deadly offense to a person of different cultural origin.
And turning back to our agenda here, it is the well known poor baby syndrome... Self importance and self pity.
And with Russians, you can repeat their own joke to them, a month later.
And now it's offensive!
One explained this to me: "WE can criticize Russia. YOU cannot."
Armando and Ken?
Yea, I forgot about Ken.
And what's the deal with Armando?
How does he claim Carlos "sent him"?
I don't get why people buy that.
What's his story?
He is not claiming to be a Nagual. He just says he was visiting Carlos on some Mexican events, and had private conversations with him, and before leaving the world he introduced him to some lineage of old seers who are moving in a different direction than don Juan's lineage. From what I know he is not a public person and his books are not really popular, no events or workshops.
But in his first book he tells that Carlos left to him the task to say to people that The Rule still applies and that his task as a Nagual was to disseminate knowledge so that new Rule-based lineages could form on their own, based on the minimal chance given in the books. Like that:
"I have lived a moment of renewal. My task is to close the lineage of Don Juan with a
golden key, and to open up possibilities for those who come later. That is why I have said
that I am the last nagual of my lineage, not in an absolute sense, but in the sense of
radical change."
At this point, Carlos took a break in his presentation and reminded me of a conversation
we had when we first met.
At that time, I had asked him to tell me tales of power. He replied that he could not refuse
what I was asking, but to hand over those stories without any directions would have been
to trivialize them.
"I hope what you have seen during these years fulfills your expectations. I did what I
could, considering your limitations as
well as mine. I know you have already begun to train your dreaming double, and that
guarantees that you can continue by yourself; your double won't leave you alone until
you arrive at your totality. The theoretical part is finished, and it is time to give you a last
gift."
The tone of Carlos' voice as he spoke these words, somewhere between familiar and
solemn, made me concentrate all my attention.
"The final teaching says that in connection with intent, every person, whoever it may be,
who approaches the nagual, has his place inside the total context of the Rule. So you are
not alone; sorcerers are expecting something from you."
"What?" I asked, a little confused. He explained:
"All warriors have a task. Yours is to fulfill what the spirit told you to do; that is your
path to power."
"And what is that task?"
"Well, your personal mission is something your benefactor will communicate to you
some day. However, in accordance with the Rule of the three-pronged nagual, I am
following a long-term strategy devised by Don Juan, which commits you to my teacher's
intent.
"What is expected from you is that you say to those who surround you: 'You are free, you
can fly by yourselves! You have the necessary information, what are you waiting for?
Act impeccably, and see how energy finds a way.'
"Warn everyone that with the culmination of Don Juan's lineage, the knowledge is wide
open. Each warrior is responsible for himself, and can provide himself with the minimum
opportunity, which is to organize his own party."
For me Armando is a 50/50 thing. Why? Because: 1) His first book gives a strong impression "A la Carlos". The spirit and the mood 2) There are some specific details, like the ones you pointed to us also, like:
"That afternoon, he was limping when he came to the meeting. We asked him what had
happened, and he told us that while he was at the hotel, for one fraction of second a toe
on his left foot lit up and was scorched with an internal fire.
"I had to move quickly, because my assemblage point had begun the process of
alignment!"
Moved by his strange experience, he talked for a long time about the final exercise of
sorcerers, by means of which they catch fire from inside and enter pure awareness in their
totality, shoes and all.
One of the people in the room asked him why, if the passing into awareness is the final
objective of sorcerers, he had fought to retain his individual self today, instead of taking
advantage of the opportunity.
With a roguish smile, Carlos told us that the question made him remember one of his
ancestors, a Portuguese, who devoted himself to the business of transporting people to
Brazil, with the story of the promised land. The man made a small fortune that way, and
he did a great job creating propaganda about the advantages of Brazil, but he had never
been there.
"And here I am, transporting you!"
After we had laughed at his anecdote, Carlos changed the expression on his face. In a
very formal tone, he explained that warriors don't act for reasons of self-importance, and
therefore, their decisions are not theirs.
"Don Juan told me how some men of knowledge, after a life of impeccable fight, decide
to remain, while others dissolve like a puff of wind into infinity."
3) He doesn't show up on youtube, facebook, doesn't offer to teach or give workshops.
And the opposite 50% goes to the fact that there is no independent confirmation. And that his second and third books no longer have this "a la Carlos" feeling and are filled with bizarre and outlandish stories, which are too bizarre even for Castaneda. So I carefully assess that he could be a partial scam. Meaning some truth (mostly 1 book), and a bunch of nonsense (in 2 and especially 3).
On the contrary, Ken and Miguel are total scams obviously. They never knew Carlos for sure. Ken is after money and claims to have known and met don Juan. And Miguel is a weird mix of Castaneda and christianity, also showing up publicly, giving workshops and earning cash... So it is like that.
He could have simply read workshop and private class notes, and come up with all of that.
The toe thing was common knowledge on sustained action, to which he had easy access.
Is there any confirmation of Carlos giving a lecture like he mentions?
Carlos never mentioned him to me, and Carlos and I met privately just before he died.
He expressed frustration with his inner circle.
If Armando was one of his, I think he would have mentioned it to me.
Just a while before that I was invited to be Florinda's lover, which I suppose meant, go with her, Taisha, and Kylie.
Since I didn't, you'd think he would have informed me of anyone he left around, like Armando.
Also, Armando didn't have to charge for his book. His motives are obviously money driven, rather than to help Carlos.
You'll never see me charging money.
Cholita on the other hand...
If she wasn't crazy, she'd cash in for sure.
Of course he could do that.
I am not sure, but there definitely was some "faction" in Mexico. Some gatherings at Casa Amatlan, involving Tony Karam, Jacobo, Marivi de Teresa and other guys. Those are interviewed in the book "Witnesses of the Nagual".
Based on your own words, yes and no. Remember like you have told Carlos liked to create factions and make them separate.
I know and you have your own reasons.
As for the Armando, as I told, for me he is a guy under doubt. Ken and Miguel are discarded at once. But this is my own subjective perception.
On the other hand, his 1 book apart from the Rule thing, from technical perspective doesn't give us any much more techniques, mostly reverberating the same stuff - recap, silence, dreaming, passes, stalking. So mostly it is motivational composition which could encourage to practice. The same could be done by the original books, so I don't see any point focusing on it too much unless you want to discuss something specific regarding it.
Ans his other books personally for me are not worth the discussion at all.
I don't know about the meeting, but I was with Carlos for years before he died, and pretty much know his whereabouts most of the time.
Is there a date for this meeting?
Yea, Mexico still has a faction.
I plan to send Cholita to check it out.
She understands them better than me.
For instance, Mexicans will shout at movies in the theater.
And the others there aren't bothered by it.
It's normal to shout at the movie characters.
Cholita does it in the middle of the night, watching videos on her mac.
I heard, Mexicans used to shout questions at Carlos during lectures.
Unfortunately, no.. I think there will be no way to check that, and as Torres himself is not available to contact anywhere, there's nobody to ask. But it is a good point to check it!
I know the only possible link who is Juan Yoliliztli (facebook), do you know him? He is the guy who owns the rights to the books. His real name is Eddie Martinelli. I don't know him personally, but he is the only related person available online.
Wow, I know Eddie.
I don't know where. I'll try to ask Cholita.
But last night when I got home, Cholita was all dolled up.
I mean, WOW!
She made sure I saw, then slammed the door shut shouting, "Don't even think about it!"
So it's not likely I can find out if she knows "Juan".
I was thinking about this more last night.
The whole premise for Armando's books is absurd.
He may or may not have heard Carlos lecture, but the idea that Carlos would put in so much work to set up the intent of teaching us, that intent even extending beyond his death (to Cholita and me), and then realize it wasn't enough, so he'd send Armando...
It's nuts.
You can see how the witches and Carol have backed off to let Cleargreen see what happens.
They haven't jumped in to try to change course.
Because they can't.
It would be death to whatever Carlos created.
It would be like releasing a beautiful helium balloon to go out into the world, and land where it might with a basket of messages.
But as you are dying, you change your mind and send Armando to track it down and change the messages in it.
Really???
What Carlos did is going to work out in the long run. It just may take much longer than we expected.
And I haven't seen or heard of anyone who's benefited from what Armando is writing.
Where are they? The ones he helped learn sorcery?
Anyone I hear mention Armando, is still as clueless as everyone else.
I think that I am getting your point and yes, it absolutely makes sense. I am not one of those guys defending Torres or anything of a sort. It was just one of many books I've read. For Ken gave up on the second chapter. It wasnt even readable.
But returning to the roots of the talk - yup, in the Eastern bloc many people take Torres for granted. Even some Cleargreen facilitators.
I kind of hope it's true. That Carlos enlisted him.
But if he did, he made a very bad choice. Armando hasn't helped anyone learn sorcery.
Myself, I hate that people like to cheat others out of their money, and the community is not informed enough to spot it.
I got an earful from Carlos about this.
He REALLY didn't like fake sorcerers cashing in on his books.
He could be a scam as well. This option is definitely "on the table".
Well, maybe he didn't even try to. His first book is like a collection of notes from some meetings/interviews. So it could be mainly seen as "motivational reminder of same techniques and principles". So he just wrote a book and released it to the world, without a goal of teaching.
And the later books... Well... Those are very different as describing such a farfetched stuff about old seers etc. that they resemble magical fiction novels. But there are people who stick to those also. I don't like them, for me they seem a distraction from the original intent.
The possible and hard truth is, his direct apprentices apart from you and Cholita are actually doing the same thing now. My opinion is, if you are learning with someone, it doesn't automatically make you privileged. You can still end up screwed a.f. You know it yourself, regarding the other private class members. And we couldn't be sure Reni, Nyei and Miles didn't actually join the same club using Carlos' work to cash in... This could be the sad truth...
Maybe, but Carlos had powerful intent.
It might suck them in further.
And maybe some little hope related to Carol..
Could be that Carol has realized people won't put in enough work to learn, and the personal power workshops are designed to fix that first.
Tinker with the motivational system, stalking style.
I have some additional information from castaneda-ru.com forum:
And later on one guy has wrote a following comment: (I translated it)
Later on he writes that Yolilitzli just used Armando for personal gains and a classical book deal, that he is a guy only interested in money and posturing. And when Armando wanted to publish his books he could not afford it so agreed to transfer all rights to his texts to Yolilitzli in exchange that he would print, publish and provide his books to the world. This guy also told Yolilitzli came to Russia on several occasions and he knows him personally, he tried to sell some magical stones to him, etc.
That's pretty much what I thought about the situation.
And I doubt Armando was seen around Carlos a lot in the 80s. That's likely made up also.
It's a pretty easy claim to make, since Carlos started doing more lectures during that period.
He was experimenting with teaching people. Had some "private class" students prior to the 90s crop.
The saddest part of all of this is, we have what works.
People just never get the time to practice, and then aren't honest about why it's failing.
I guess they think someone else will save them all the work by giving them a new "secret".
But you have to either get someone else to move your assemblage point, which clearly none of the me-too naguals can do, or you have to move it yourself, daily.
You have to do the work.
Well, about the Cleargreen's response, they definitely have a franchise and what else they could say about it. I am pretty much sure if ask them about you, they would tell something similar like better follow Renata and Carol Tiggs. On the other hand, they didn't directly call him a fraud. I expected they would.
I think that we are at 50/50 here. As Armando never claimed to be an apprentice of Carlos.
His own words:
"My name is Armando Torres. I have written this book in order to complete a task that was assigned to me
years ago by Carlos Castaneda-- a controversial anthropologist and writer on the subject of sorcery-- who I
met in October 1984.
I was still quite young then, and in my quest for answers, I had been looking into various spiritual traditions;
and I wanted to find a teacher.
But from the very beginning, Carlos was very clear in that respect. He said, "I do not promise you anything. I
am not a guru. Freedom is an individual choice, and each of us must assume the responsibility of fighting for it"
"When the meeting was over, all Carlos' listeners gathered to exchange a few words with him, and say their
farewells. When it was my turn, Carlos looked me up and down. Then he asked me to tell him my name, and
why I was there.
I told him my name and I explained that a friend, knowing my interest for the subject, had told me about this
opportunity.
Carlos' only comment was, "I want to talk to you in private."
I was a little confused by his words, but I waited until the end of his round of greetings, and I followed him
to a corner of the room. There he invited me to have breakfast at his hotel the following day.
I assured him that it would be my pleasure.
He gave me the address, and told me, "We will meet tomorrow at nine o'clock."
He added that I should not tell anybody about our meeting, and that I should be punctual."
"I arrived in the hotel lobby at the agreed time, and I had barely waited one minute when I saw Carlos coming
down from the rooms upstairs. We greeted each other and went into the restaurant where a delicious
breakfast was served. At one point, I wanted to ask him something, but he made a gesture that I should shut
my mouth. We ate in silence.
When we were done, we left the hotel, and walked down to Donceles street, towards the zocalo.
While we browsed through the second hand bookstores, Carlos told me that he generally did not speak
privately with people, but that my case was different because he had received an 'indication' about it.
I did not know what he was talking about and I preferred to stay quiet since any comment I might make
would only show my ignorance.
Carlos added that I should not confuse his deference toward me as being a personal concern.
He explained, saying, "I have said many times that my energetic condition prevents me from taking pupils,
and people are disappointed with me because of that. But there is no way."
We talked about all kinds of things. He asked me many questions about my life, asked for my phone number, and told me that he was giving a talk at a friend's house the following night.
Carlos invited me to attend, but said our relationship should remain secret.
I replied that I would love to be there, and he gave me the address and the schedule."
"After a while of relaxed conversation, he shook my hand in what was clearly a gesture of farewell. I could
not contain my curiosity, and I asked him what he had meant when he had said that he had an 'indication'
about my person.
Instead of responding, he looked attentively at a point above my left shoulder. Immediately my ear became
hot and began to hum.
Then he told me that he did not know the answer himself, because he had not been able to read the nature of
the sign. But the sign had been something so clear that he was obliged to pay attention.
Carlos added, "I can not guide you, but I can put you in front of an abyss which will test all your abilities.
"It depends on you whether you hurl yourself off it and fly, or whether you run to hide in the security of your
routines."
His words made me even more curious, and I asked him what abyss he was talking about.
He told me it was my own dream.
The answer shocked me since he seemed attuned to my internal dilemma."
So I would still leave both opportunities on the table, whether he is real or not. Who knows, really. As for Juan Yolilitzli, this kind of story presented by Russian practitioner is not also not uncommon. We all know very well how really bad and self obsessed people use others for personal gains. So it could be true that he just used Armando's texts to earn money and get a bit of fame. This is so common it is not even surprising.
Also, a book "Witnesses of the Nagual" is a collection of interviews with faction M, also released by Yolilitzli. But this one definitely seems geniune, with interviews with different people who known Carlos like Jacobo Grinberg, Marivi de Teresa, Carlos Hidalgo, etc.
So even if a guy who released the books is screwed, it does not mean that the text authors are same :) And Mexican faction is curious to explore.
As for this "Replege", I have no idea what this is. In Armando's first 2 books and Witnesses only usual Tensegrity is mentioned as a way to go... Maybe it is one more book deal from Juan... But I recall Torres mentioning very early movements, presented to limited audience with strange names like "Dynamo" or "Beating the heavenly drum".. It could be true as I remember rumors that Carlos introduced some limited movements much earlier than Tensegrity came to the publicity. So maybe it was a predecessor couple of movements before the actual passes started forming.
Yes.
This is a very common attitude. I've had it in earlier times as I have told you when I was devouring every possible book including Armando's. The only way to fight this obsession is real practice of recap and silence.
I think that you are completely right and the only option is the individual hard work. No don Juan is coming to kick our damn ass!
Anyway, I think this topic of Torres is so speculative, I don't think I should "use" your time to discuss it so much. Better focusing on really valuable practical stuff and for the real practice itself of course.
As we already have everything in Castaneda's books, I would also agree that we don't really need Torres more than a motivational stuff. And it does not really matter whether is it right or not if it is only a motiovational stuff because he advises the same stuff as original books - passes, silence, recap, dreaming..
What was the purpose?) Just to have some fun and some sex in threesome? and Carlos seemed to insist on your celibat thing, did he>?
I have no idea.
I thought it was understood I was celibate, so I ignored the offer.
My guess: Carlos was pairing people off for better protection after his death.
Or, Taisha, Florinda, and Kylie were leaving to follow Carlos, and I had an invite to go along.
As a result of turning that down, I got Cholita.
It is in fact true, you can learn a lot more with 2 people, than you can on your own.
Carlos did he ever warn at private classes to stay away from IB? or encourage to explore them and going into their worlds?
No, he didn't bring it up except to introduce us to them. And to teach us to spot manifestations of them.
There might have been a mention of something from his books, like don Juan being kidnapped with his nagual woman. Just in the course of all the wonderful story telling he did for us.
I honestly think this anti-inorganic being thing was manufactured by some private class members, who carelessly chatted on the internet.
And it got spread around.
Even in the books, don Juan only says he didn't like them, because he was afraid of them.
And then, he uses them constantly to help teach!
He even pretends to carry one around his waist.
So how did this wasteful attitude towards them come about?
I kind of blame Leigh for the anti-inorganic being thing.
There's one place on the net, still visible, where he insults someone who has an IOB in their dream, because they're having sex with it.
What????
It should be, "You have a FUCKING IOB in your dream!!!! Congratulations!"
Instead, it's the same crazy hatred based on nothing at all.
I suspect someone confused them with the Archons, in a careless way. And they got wrapped up into paranoid delusional plots.
But look at it this way:
You're on a road and you have a map. The map is Carlos' books.
The road is very long, so you stop to rest on occasion, taking in the sights.
A guy named Armando, and his friend Ken, sneak into your camp at night, remove some cash, and add entries to your map as if that makes up for ripping you off.
Plus, it helps them to know if you went down the wrong road. They can rip you off some more along the way.
They make sure it's entertaining. Like, go left at the little gas station with the red pumps. And don't forget to smell the pretty flowers near the door!
You were supposed to go straight another mile, but since you've traveled 50 miles already, this seems like it must be the spot.
You follow the bogus addition to the map off into nowhere, and finally give up.
There's nothing there. You give up, believing the map was a fraud.
That's what outside information does to your practices!
It messes with the map.
I supposed no one cares, because everyone secretly believes it's all made up.
Even cleargreen with their new me-too nagual fondness?
It's just a bunch of garbage isn't it?
So if you pick up "titillating secrets" from bad sources, who cares?
You have more STUFF.
The problem is, it's not fake.
Sorcery is real.
And you need a good map.
Keep in mind: The IOBs have their own map, in case you get lost.
They're the source of the original map the old seers used.
Fairy gives me a little tug in the right direction once in a while. When she sees I've gone off the deep end.
Minx tried to help last night. It was a pleasant surprise.
But he still seems kind of clueless.
Maybe if Fairy is like a small rodent, in terms of where she fits in the IOB worlds, energy wise, Minx is like a finch.
Not too bright.
I only suggest that because Cholita was trying to turn into a bird last night.
She was all over the yard at once point (around 4AM).
The taiwanese bosses' son found her in his dream, rolling on the grass in the yard.
Regarding your small size fairy and giant Carlos inorganics, I've read one nagualist book where he explains his dreaming experience in which inorganic beings are divided into different groups like: small useless parasites, medium concious allies, giant IB, scouts and others, all of them have their own worlds and interests in terms of activity and energy, some of them can be parasitic, some can be friendly and teaching, some can be indifferent to human kind and only experienced dreamers can distinguish which IB is this or that type in order to get some decent result without harm to your psychic setup or energy.. Don Juan used to tell Carlos smth similiar near the fire in the fields, where he was talking about small shadows beings reminding flying butterflies which are always accompanied by noisy spirits unpleasant for human beings which can get into one's house and spoil their life, he put out the fire once he noticed such spirit and they left the place.
And Carol mentioned some other weird things you can run into.
Plus Taisha and Florinda's "duck".
Of course, half of what you just wrote is placebo.
I don't mind the info, sounds kind of true to me.
But the built in worry and warnings are silly.
The writer is victimizing people. And that to make money and get fame.
It's like someone warning you not to each the booger flavored jelly beans at the candy store.
And when you get there, that's all they have.
Everything "tasty" is out of stock due to COVID19.
Only booger jelly beans left.
So warnings like this are nonsensical placebos designed for people who will never actually learn to perceive those things.
I say, go for the boogers!
And don't puff yourself up with secret knowledge like this.
It's ok to read this.
It doesn't have a built in path deviation.
Like, "The 4 agreements".
It's just wild life descriptions.
But put it in the back of your mind, until the only time it might be useful.
When you can see these things for yourself.
The Taiwanese bosses' son is learning to see.
I'm not sure how. Osmosis perhaps.
" Of course, if it's a "being", and has no organic body, it's always technically an IOB. "
Ha very true. If I was trying to talk to a catholic based group I would definitely use the word demon.
I'm thinking it got the anime and cartoonish stuff from associating with or terrorizing younger folks. I've been around since the original atari. Still have the original basketball "#14" off the engineering test line in my garage. So I never developed any dreaming with modern type things that would occur in my dreams. So it's one of my points that shows me something is fooling around with me.
The reason I do it this way thus far is I have been having some trouble learning to do it awake. I took your suggestion of sleeping in a chair, unfortunately I can now happily sleep sitting up. No idea how I keep my head up. And of course 40 years of using dreaming to certain degrees has made this way easier thus far. I think I may need a stick! Or maybe some thorns in between my toes like they use to fake polygraphs.
I have already been kidnapped to IOB land. It was forced but also an invite to tour their realms ( I accepted the invitation in some way, no idea how) I would get out and be snapped right back in when I closed my eyes starting right where I left off. With a tour guide to boot. Truly ended up being the scariest and most enlightening experience of my life. even with the insane pain and PTSD.
Was and still is very interesting to see their interactions with each other and the places they live. Guess you have to suspend disbelief with that sort of thing for most people. For me it is reality.
And yes! They take permission far differently than your average person would. A thought or "intent" is considered permission in my experience.
My first experiences in their realms were things like raves....or that is the best description of the parties they have I can say. I made myself very easy to spot, flying about and hanging on walls listening to the music.
I am still struggling with my unconscious to know I want it to always wake up. Why I am thinking doing it awake would allow me far more control of when I do it and in what situations.
I personally am not out to prove anything to anyone. I really don't know how to begin that sort of thing.
I'm not sure how you are trying to do it either?
I have no idea who these people are that you talk of Victor, Armando, cleargreen...etc And have no interest in looking them up at this point. Maybe in the future.
I want to know what works! Before a few years ago I was definitely an armchair occultist. Massive knowledge in many areas but very little that I used everyday and could work. That has been changing a lot.
Sounds true. Fairy responds both to requests, and to what I'm interested in.
If you consider that the situation is somewhat sexual for IOBs (they're female and like male energy), it's not surprising they'd do you favors, without you actually having asked.
Or that they'd be anxious for you to volunteer to go live with them.
I wish you'd mock that up for me. Cut and paste images, to represent it?
The first time I visited their realm was in dreaming, after having asked.
They didn't take me there that night, but later I ended up there for sure.
And it didn't look anything like what Fairy shows me.
The problem is, they're projectionists.
You see what you expect to see. Or what they want you to see, and can draw from you.
In dreaming, it's much richer.
So while awake, Fairy can make a scary face if she wants to. But only 2 a second. And no props other than clothes or somethins she's holding.
In dreaming, she has an entire environment to work with. She can not only change her appearance, but alter how you perceive the dream itself. Or replicate herself into as many as 5.
The realm I saw in dreaming was like a Bosch painting. Little scenes of activity, amidst water worn hills and pits.
In one, a man was turning a crank on a machine made of very simple things like big wooden gears.
Like you'd see in the 1600s.
Another man was in the middle, being ground into paste.
In another, a few people were drinking wine in a pool of water and trying on weird hats.
It was like that everywhere i looked, except that the perspective was all messed up.
No matter how far away activity was, if I looked closer, it was only 12 feet away from me.
I wanted to enter into that area, but I discovered it was all actually part of a wall, and the depth was an illusion.
Haven't found a way to "prove" it yet. Cholita levitating a dim sum plate would help, but she won't cooperate.
My best idea is to just keep learning and see if I reach a point to push other people's assemblage points on demand.
And figure out how to send Cholita into people's dreams.
She's picking up that talent!
Made a guest appearance in a dream of the Taiwanese Bosses' son two nights ago.
And showed up in an ordinary dream I had, around 6AM.
Or more correctly, she didn't care if I was practicing in darkness at 5AM, or had finally laid down to sleep at 6.
She's able to enter either. Awake or asleep.
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Buddhist Enlightenment (a basic low level I've been warned)
So all buddists talking about enlightement is equal to sitting two hours in silently gazing darkness?)) I Mean are most of all advanced practitioners buddists stuck in some initial level of heightened awareness which is equal to beginner's level in nagualism?
No, it's surely not that simple.
First, Buddhists seem to ignore trying to get silent. They trust in whatever meditation technique they were given. And those have been designed to slow you down.
They ALL interrupt the internal dialogue. But in most cases, they merely replace it with something less oppressive.
But ultimately, they reach some condition where things can change. Objects can go away, and be replaced by others.
It's what I do nightly. You realize the world can change.
They say it's "empty", but I see it as overflowing.
Too much to see, not nothing to see.
But both are the same experience. You realize the world isn’t really solid.
That's the "base level", according to people who understand Buddhism better than me.
Is it permanent?
Hindus say no. But you can venture so far into it, by experience, that there’s no way you’ll return to your former crummy self.
Buddhists say, yes it’s permanent. Except the westernized ones, who are much more open and honest, and say if you stop practicing, you return to normal.
Why do eastern Buddhists say that?
It’s their “seniority” based social system.
They MUST say that.
It would cause social chaos if the enlightened master at the temple could be challenged as having lost his enlightenment.
They have a "system". They can't allow it to fall apart.
That fear doesn't threaten Hindu masters.
They have "followers". If one decides the guru is no longer enlightened, the door is nearby. Gurus are a Rupee a dozen in India.
But a Buddhist temple leader is a trickier situation. It's a business. A public business with investors.
A political institution! Not to mention, an important provider of opium and prostitutes.
So they have to be permanently superior to everyone else.
But, according to don Juan, sometimes heightened awareness IS PERMANENT.
Look at Carlos’ egg diagram. If the dent in the bubble is sufficient, it never returns to normal.
So you could practice sorcery, and end up in permanent heightened awareness.
Usually, probably not.
And it’s just a foot in the door of "enlightenment".
There are levels upon levels there, which are accessed by living it.
I’d say, Hindus and Buddhists can do everything we can.
But they screwed up their intent!
In order to get a better book deal, they added a bunch of nonsense on to the truth.
And that nonsense will hold them back.
I guess you could use an analogy.
Let’s say one of you guys works your butt off practicing sorcery. You’ll get results!
But you were had. Duped. Taken advantage of.
So you’re a big fan of Armando, Miguel, and Victor.
You’ve absorbed their poison.
You’ll be held back the same way Buddhists are, by their nonsensical beliefs added on to the truth.
Edited
What kind of nonsense?) in two words if you can describe it?
Re-incarnation.
Dharma.
Karma.
Demons.
Did you see the guy who posted in here? He was quiet for a long time.
But then it turned out, he believed he'd mapped out 900 past lives.
He was in here, because of the weirdness. A Buddhist forum wouldn't be compatible with that claim.
Here it's fine.
I don't know what he as doing to perceive those, but it had to be his second attention coming out.
Yet instead of learning sorcery, he got sidetracked on that mistaken belief in past lives.
Same happens to Buddhists.
They also fail to learn from inorganic beings, believing them to be demons.
And when they travel to other worlds, they mistakenly identify them according to their prejudices.
Heaven, hell, and so on.
They're like sorcerers so stoned, they can't think straight.
The Zen people are the kings of not going anywhere. They even take pride in ignoring, even denying, magic.
Swimming in magic as we all are, and supposedly "enlightened", they deny magic.
With anger and insults.
It was my most recent 13 lives over the last 900 years, but you're close (I'm not seeking any validation, I don't expect anyone to believe anything). I've identified many lives which date back thousands of years, but I've only expended the energy to suss out that far back consecutively. When I feel like figuring out more, I will. I've got better things to expend my energy on ATM.
What makes you say I never learned sorcery, lol? Who but a sorcerer would be able to figure out all those past lives?
As for what I did to perceive those, I do what I've done my whole life, execute the Indiana Jones plan: make it up as I go along. That IS a core part of sorcery and the Path of the Warrior, after all, lol.
I never saw Castaneda as a teacher or guru, but rather a fellow sorcerer from whom I could pick up some tips and pointers (and I learned a lot more from Castaneda than just that). I'm coming from a different POV because the best I can describe is part of me got stuck in the second attention when I was very young before I fully joined the first attention (where people leave the magick behind). So many people struggle to unleash the magick, attending classes, and dedicating their lives. I, OTOH, had to learn how to live with that magick omnipresent around me. A different Path than Castaneda and the factions to say the least, with different results.
My Path is not purely a Warrior and/or Sorcerer Path, but I try to include the King and Lover so I can balance all four main Paths. My goals are different than Castaneda's and I respect his intent, focusing on my intent instead (which takes a back seat here to his and your intent).
You've got a good take on all those "official" Paths like Buddhism, Catholicism, Hinduism, and Zen, but you're whiffing on me.
I say GO for it!
Just keep in mind, time may not be as linear as you think.
You got me there! Red handed.
Obviously that's sorcery.
I was attacked by a demon at 5, which made me keen to learn to protect myself in dreaming.
It's probably part of the reason I learned to use the second attention.
I already knew what it was like, so I wasn't doubting there were rewards to practicing.
Is whiffing like huffing?
But yes, you're right. I screwed up.
Still, the past life thing seems false to me. More likely is it's cyclic beings.
Or re-runs.
Not that it matters. Everything we have for a description is off.
We can't know the "truth". Just what works better.
What was the demon like (I know how daemons work, but that's a bit different)? What's the difference between a demon and an IOB?
That was about the same age I stopped getting having issues with getting chased and forced awake while asleep. The best description I have is I was forced back to my body which I was astrally projecting by the Astral Police throwing those blobs of color at me. The blobs would stick to my silvery body, slowing me down and I would get hit by more until I was totally covered and found myself back in my body (I can only imagine what sort of problems I was causing not knowing what I was doing astrally projecting at that age, lol).
I solved my problem by playing [Statues](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statues_(game) with the Astral Police. The only went after me when I caused problems and ran away, so if I just froze in place and acted like the IOBs I saw around I didn't get bothered.
There's a "re-run" aspect you can view of anyone's past life, like I mentioned in that other thread.
As for the cyclic being option, that's entirely possible. I still don't have a good handle on what they are and how they operate, so I can't comment too much on how they relate to how I see past lives working.
A classic "Satan" with pitchfork and fireproof red underwear.
It was probably from a Bugs Bunny or Heckle and Jeckle cartoon.
Demon vs Inorganic being? I believe they're the same thing.
Well, of course by definition Demons have to be IOBs. They have no organic body.
But what I mean by the same is, the appearance is just cultural.
The problem with that is, it makes me smarter than Milarepa.
And he could fly.
So I guess it's best to leave room for "real" demons out there somewhere.
That of course takes being able to reproduce the same situation at least a few times.
That's the trouble. You get what you're given, and there's so many things you can be given, repeating that last one takes a long time.
But I was curious why you thought they were past lives in the first place?
Isn't that entirely because that's all you heard about such things, combined with the feeling that it's "you" for sure?
My take on that is, it puts limits on you.
Carol Tiggs gave us the example. She said Carlos and her visited a world, and that maybe the beings there walked on 4 legs, not 2.
But they never perceived that because of their Tonal's prejudices.
So if you go into a cyclic being world there they really aren't that much like us, you'll end up forcing them to be exactly like us, because of the belief that it's you, in a past life.
I'm not sure that's any worse than the Tonal prejudices.
But it might be.
I do believe however, that Carlos got caught up in believing he was experiencing re-incarnation for a while, and don Juan had to talk him out of it.
Let me expand on why you can mess up a world with your expectations.
This world, on which our experience with solidness is based, is not as solid as it looks.
Or as fixed.
Once you encounter the Nagual is it's purer forms, you come to realize how much we're interpreting. Even in this world.
Interpreting = not perceiving the unaltered real thing
Once you realize that, it's not surprising that you could really mess up a cyclic being copy of yourself.
To be over there, your assemblage point has to be very loose. And it's never settled in over there.
So you'd get a lot of "lateral shifts" while there.
A lateral shift even here, can make objects change.
Which shows another disadvantage Buddhists have.
They aren't even aware of that.
If it's a "past life", it's stable, and just like this.
Since it CAN'T be, I have to conclude they're exaggerating hugely.
But they don't feel dishonest, because all of their buddies are guilty of the same misdirection.
It's the "book deal effect" that I worry so much about, with Victor, Miguel, Armando, and Ken putting out fabrications.
he was speaking about it?
Yes.
We had quite a few buddhists, so on occasion he'd get involved in that type of discussion.
As I recall, he didn't want to take a side on it.
But also someone posted notes where don Juan told him to stop being obsessed with cyclic beings.
The implications of that are ASTOUNDING!
If he was obsessed with cyclic beings to the point that don Juan was concerned, doesn't that mean he spent a lot of time investigating?
And doesn't that imply he could do it on demand?
So on demand he had access to 600 worlds???
Wow. I only have access to 6, and not under any control of mine. I take what I get offered.
Sounds to me like your "demon" was one of the Astral Police I was talking about and you were being a mischievous kid like I was. Those Beings in the Realms beyond sure do like to use our interpreting to their advantage, as you so rightly mention.
There are some real demons out there. I've never met any myself, but their handiwork is unmistakable.
On the past life stuff, I can tell you for certain I'm not importing anything intentionally from Buddhism or my existing expectations. I went almost 60 years understanding things the way I do and thought this was my first time through a human life, and then six months ago that premise became unsupportable. Sometime after I sort things through I'll probably share the whole story (but not in a "book deal", lol).
I agree with everything you say vis-à-vis moving the assemblage point, but my particular identification come from a feel that results from knowing myself. Just as Castaneda was a Trickster, so am I a Helper/Healer. Knowing my fundamental nature means that I can recognize which choices I would make in a given situation. That allows the easy identification of a "false" past-life because so many actions aren't what I would do.
And when I do hit one that is mine, the decisions become excruciatingly painful, especially when I know the result is NOT going to be good. IMO, that past-life death trauma isn't so much from the original event itself, but it's from knowing that is what is coming, not being able to stop it from happening, and having to watch it unfold, often is slow motion.
While I respect Buddhism, it's too much of a religion for my taste, enough to keep a person from major mistakes, but never enough to get to the heart of the matter. Likewise, I'm not interested in any of that past-life regression hypnosis stuff going on.
Did you ever see the book, "The Star Rover"?
It's sort of what you're doing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_Rover
Thanks for the recommendation. I've never heard of that book before and I never knew London wrote sci-fi. From the synopsis, that sounds very similar to some of the experiences I've had (not that jail part, thankfully).
I do know that it is possible to project into past lives that were not your own (IMO that's why so many people claim they were super-famous people). Those lives feel different than the ones I lived through myself, and the difference is how the decisions feel. Each former life made the same decision I would have made in that same time and place (and many of those were awful decisions I cringe at).
There were rumors in the 60s that there was in fact something behind the book.
And in fact, you could certainly do what the character did.
I'm going to have to steal that idea!
However, I've come to learn in here (mostly) that if someone thinks they had a famous past life, and it's "important" to them to believe it, there's no way they'll ever put in the time to learn sorcery.
It's something about the motivations in their heart.
The only way you learn sorcery is on your own. People hooked to validating themselves with others won't do somthing that difficult on their own.
Cleargreen could of course, design workshops where participants are "forced" to work hard for a couple of weeks.
Just manage their time, the way Zuleica and Silvio managed Carlos.
So how do you verify the time period?
How do you know the time periods of the people you inhabit aren't a mix of how time actually works. So that a cyclic being living right now, ends up with what looks like ancient rome?
But it's not the same Rome.
Do you have enough lucidity to check details carefully, or is the event to rare to easily experiment?