It seems that the source of the rumors that Carlos went bad, is Howard Lee.
John Daniels was taking his classes, the same as Cholita, and Howard explained it to him.
Daniel's, hosting 3 "pro-Castaneda" web sites, passed the rumor around.
Endless damage was done to the community. I still get private messages about this crazy story.
Hopefully that's where Felix got his con. I'd like to think he didn't make that up himself.
And it's become a "badge of honor" for hot-shot Castaneda inventory experts who plague this subreddit. They say stuff like, "Carlos went bad, I don't follow him. I follow don Juan! And he visits me in dreaming to give me special techniques to share with all of you!"
I can't underestimate the damage this has done.
I suppose the made-up myth even included some mysterious dark realm that bad sorcerers can escape to.
Naturally there's no such realm mentioned in Carlo's books. You have to have a container.
So you either go to the IOBs world to live longer, rearrange your emanations to be more like them, but you'll barely exist here and will still die relatively soon.
Or you burn from within.
We don't seem to have the choice to travel around as just awareness, minus a container.
Why did Howard do it?
I suppose the implication, also false, is that it happened towards the end.
So not only did Howard spread false information, but he potentially enhanced it with non-truths.
Carlos did have a problem. But it was that he was starting to burn with the fire from withing, which means, he was on the verge of the 3rd attention, like it or not.
Taisha definitely didn't like it. I had a short conversation with her about it. She was seriously worried they'd be left alone.
As for Howard claiming it happened at the end, I suspect that's "book deal thinking".
His fame was Carlos' books.
That's best enhanced if Carlos was good, until the end.
But it's an inaccurate portrayal of the situation. As long ago as 20 years before Carlos died, Howard was warning young women that Carlos was, "a bad man". He told them to stay away.
Why?
What is this "light of life" that Howard teaches? The impression everyone is given is that he "discovered it".
In fact, it's just Daoism.
He found a life extending technique. His confidence he'll live to 150 (he told me so), probably comes from Chinese literature.
I hope he does, but there's a big problem with Daoism.
And one which excuses Howard for his beliefs about Carlos.
He was being righteous, in a Chinese way.
Originally, Daoism came from the Akkadians. They noticed that if you mix the dried pods of wild poppies with new wine, you could extract the opiates. Morphine and Codeine primarily.
Using that drink, they discovered what they called, "The Dao".
And then they moved north into China.
They were sorcerers, pure and simple. And from a time when magical texts were widely available.
Texts we no longer have.
They also came from an area where the religion of the day prevailed. Always evolving through story telling, and not through facts, they undoubtedly brought a lot of baggage with them to China.
That original Daoism probably was quite different from what we have now.
In China, it was tamed. It became a business of rituals and spells.
I was explaining what Howard had been telling people to the Taiwanese Bosses' son, who has a much deeper understanding of the cultural significance of such things.
We in the west are clueless. People exaggerate Chinese information, to make themselves feel more important.
But back home, everyone knows the local Daoist priest is a child molester. He even goes out in public with 2 little boys, given to him by a poor family. He's never exposed because of Asian culture, and because the 2 little boys are given a franchise, in which they can earn a living when they grow up.
The same happens at the Buddhist temple, with male's given to the temple controlling the prostitution around the temple once they grow up.
The Taiwanese Bosses' son told me, there's something going on here I can't understand.
I wish I could remember the precise details. He's not big on explaining to that level.
He pronounced Tao for me. In Chinese.
In one pronunciation it simply meant, "the path".
But by altering a tiny thing no western ear can hear, it becomes, "the path with morals".
Instead of the voice going up in the middle of the word, it goes down. Or levels off.
I still can't hear it. I can only hear that the two are obviously the same word, but one sounds different.
And so Daoism, which was originally sorcery, became associated with Chinese morals.
A priest is supposed to possess those also. It's not enough to have magic. You have to behave properly.
And there's the problem Howard has with Carlos.
His behavior was not aesthetically pleasing to a Chinese man.
If that sounds unlikely, just remember our recent sustained action visitor, saying that Carlos was "sewing chaos" wherever he went.
So?
That's how you get people's assemblage points loose. Take them out of cozy, and put them in unfamiliar.
What did he want? For Carlos to run a stray women shelter?
It's the same old shit! Stuck in the river of filth, with the people around you pulling you back towards the middle of it all.
Somewhere I posted Cholita's rendition of the river of filth.
Aside from her crumpled body on the shore, with a dinosaur stepping on her (me), she has a boat floating over the suffering crowds, run by people with funny hats.
That's the Daoists. Buddhists. Christians. Politicians.
Riding over the filth, profiting from it.
And condemning anyone who tries to escape.
105 Comments
Went bad like he was a fruit? It’s incredibly childish to believe sorcery has anything to do with being “good” or “bad” or that the pursuit of power and total freedom has anything to do with that inexistent duality taught by the Judeo-Christian religion and culture.
Could anyone argue they follow Don Juan instead of Carlos because Don Juan has “better morals”?
Don Juan placed Carlos in a deathly situation to be stalked by a witch to check if he was actually a Nahual where he could have been killed if he wasn’t all that powerful.
I wonder if these people think sorcery has anything to do with sanctity or “white magic”.
I don't know.
But usually they aren't thinking clearly.
And too hostile to argue with.
The Witches deliberately attempted to remove this belief that Carlos had to be a saint.
I used to hear from the private class women, that the witches had explained to them that sorcerers were "amoral".
I should have asked more questions about that.
But all I could think about was, doesn't that mean I get to have sex with the lovely private class women?
"private class" women?
I need to talk to the agency about an upgrade this old raggety business class is grading on my nerves.
He means the women who attended private classes held at the Dance Home building
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/wahcc0/virtual_dance_home/
Always gotta be one person who introduces helpful logic and explanatory reason in spite of my snarky ignorance!
Thank you :)
What are those "3 websites"?
Don Juan mentions morality. He denies its importance. "There is only impeccability."
Good find!
One thing people forget is, you are pretty much out of the normal dating/marriage situation, once you become a sorcerer.
You can't exist in those limitations. In fact, they might kill you.
So it's rather odd Howard was counting how many men Carlos had on his arm at picnics.
But he was.
I can't recall which book DJ dismissed "middle-class morality." Second Ring of Power? Anyway, he always stressed impeccability, which is something that I felt always wanted more exploration. I always gave credence to those who discussed it, or at least brought it up, and dismissed those who spoke in terms of morality.
"For a warrior there is time only for his impeccability; everything else drains his power. Impeccability replenishes it." - https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/ah3s5x/for_a_warrior_there_is_time_only_for_his/
On The Importance of Impeccability
"Impeccability" is forced on you, when you start exploring the second attention.
It's based on what really happens to you, and the need to defend yourself.
But it's another of those things you can pretend to be good at, and so prop yourself up as a sorcerer in your mind only.
Like Lucid dreaming is.
Which is none of my business. Everyone's crazy and crappy, no matter what. It's universal in the river of filth.
I only harp on the two of those because they keep people from doing actual work to learn sorcery.
Those are "liable" realms.
And they motivate some aggressive men to produce misleading web pages, based on their imaginary progress.
Exactly. Only impeccability, which I assume is listening to your gut and doing your personal best in whatever situation you find yourself in. As opposed to morality, which would be using your mind only to refer to rules of behavior dictated by others which may or may not (probably not) have to do with your situation.
What’s the point of the bizarre and unsupported claims about the origins of Taoism? Do these endear your fan base? Do you see the irony in the historical reification of the precisely non-dogmatic Taoist aphorisms into ritual and politics as it parallels your own objectification of the phenomenology of CC? Do you have evidence that backs up your matter of fact claims of Akkadian opiates as the genesis of Taoism? Or is this more a rhetorical affect that you like to deploy for an audience?
Could you point me to better claims?
I'm always interested in knowing more history of magic.
I ran into that studying rare magical texts. Written by scholars, not hobbists.
It made sense, because the Chinese are often thought to be from the Akadians, taking wives with the Ethiopians. Their unusual skin color is said to be the result of that.
But it would be possible these days, to see what the DNA says.
I just never did that.
And yes, it does help my fan base.
Many have been kidnapped by crummy Asian philosophy, which has kept them from learning real magic for decades.
It's deluded them.
I also attack Asian culture quite often, to give them a better understanding of that social structure, so that they don't fantasize about how wise it all is.
It's not.
You seem to want to be offended if a viewpoint steps on something you care about?
Seems like book deal thinking to me. We get an aggressive male in here every 2 or 3 weeks, who have no real interest in learning.
I hope that's not you.
You've got the real thing right here. I haven't seen it anywhere else for free.
And darned few places for money.
Which are not this far along.
Bad sign in your comments:
"Claims", "rhetorical affect", and so on.
This isn't pretend. Don't you get that?
Can you point me to an alternate place where people are learning real magic?
Can you???
I’m just interested in generosity. I see some of that here but also something else. Taoism, Buddhism etc as you say all tend to get co-opted by politics and reification. Just doing my part to see that CC’s phenomenology doesn’t suffer the same abuse.
Oh. My apologies!
What I really want most of all, is for people interested in other things, to add a bit of this to that.
The world is in a truly horrible state right now. We have these ancient technologies, like Daoism and Buddhism, but they've been turned into profit making businesses, and the magic is gone.
In Taiwan for example, Daoists sorcerers will do spells for you involving dead spirits, but they charge extra money for it, because supposedly it shortens their lifespan by a few years.
It's a pervasive belief there! People have these horrible little dolls, which have baby remains in them. Aborted fetuses are ideal.
Even Jacky Chan carries that.
The belief is that the aborted fetus has no karma from this life, so he's trapped in the nether regions.
His only chance to move on to heaven, is to help the owner of the doll, and so by get some karma of his own, and move on.
People actually believe that famous movie stars who kept their looks, did so because of one of these dolls.
And then when they die young, everyone says it was because of the baby parts doll.
That's how far down magic has sunk over there.
Edit: I should add, it's not a criticism if it is in fact true that Daoism came from a poppy wine cult.
True sorcery usually starts with power plants.
If the Daoists only needed opiates, that would be a plus for them, not a negative.
Also, many Daoist monestaries in Asia grow opium poppies to earn money.
Yup that’s exactly the kind of shit I’m talking about. The allure of the supernatural is just too hypnotic. Pseudo-science, religion, propaganda, they all exploit it. The Jewish revolutionary becomes a supernatural being; the Dao of humility becomes a tool of power and obsession; the primacy of perception becomes ‘the secret’ a fantasy of materialism.
I started reading CC when I was 14 and at 18 I realized you could actually practice it. After 30 years, the new chapter for me is to practice validating the injured heart discovered in recapitulation rather than trying to transform it. To infuse the protective shell with tenderness. Still working on it. It’s the body and the senses that require it.
Did you ever study the Taoist, "Hierarchy of Heaven"?
It's huge in Taiwan. Most households have a shrine, using moon shaped wooden blocks for fortune telling. The center of the shrine is one of the Daoist "Gods".
But there are also ink drawings on scrolls, with the entire heirachy depicted.
I can't fathom how one of the original Daoists, who could get supremely silent and travel to other worlds, would have allowed people to become obsessed over a few visions he had, just a time or two.
And not mention all the other visions which were contrary.
It's what the Jews did too. Learned to "see energy", using a technique not dissimiliar to what we use.
They saw demons, saw heaven, saw hell.
Heck, I did all of those in the last 3 weeks!
Well, maybe it's been longer since I visited heaven.
But then they made up a story around those visions.
Pretended IOBs had a stable form, and it was real.
And used those experiences to manipulate the population.
In the case of the Daoists, I don't see that they gained anything from it. Not the way the Jews did.
The Jewish gain was essentially very positive for everyone.
But it was entirely oppressive.
Haha as usual I only understand a few of your references but yes it still surprises to witness Dao poetry turned into mindless rules or ‘the kingdom of heaven is within’ turned into ‘the only son of god.’ I’d like to get good at ‘cognitive science’ and more easily recognize the mechanics of the belief systems around us: trumpism, pseudoscience, racism denialism.
Juan had a good idea today.
Maybe the whole, "Warrior's Way" is a trick to modify the internal dialogue.
Don Juan tinkering with it, and not just insisting they have to shut it off, because that's too hard to do at first.
It certainly worked! The Castaneda community walks around in a daze of mental masturbation over that "warrior's way" thing.
Maybe that's better than how they were before?
Carlos told us a mini-joke once.
I can't recall the details. Too bad former private class members are so bitter they won't even reminisce for us.
He knew this college guy who was practicing some form of meditation.
It wasn't working well, so he did it all day long. Even when walking from class to class, on the campus.
One day Carlos saw him walk right into a tree.
Bumped his head hard.
Now contrast that with forcing yourself silent all day.
You bump into LESS things. Because your senses become like super powers.
You get into a mode where you realize, focusing your attention as you normally do, from object to object, is really just a form of ignoring most of what you perceive.
So most people go around thinking they are paying attention, but it's only to things that enhance their internal dialogue.
A sorcerer sees all of it, because he doesn't place more importance on the shiny motorcycle in his path, than he does on the blurry smoke in his right peripheral vision.
Or the colorful sparkles on the ground.
He tries to perceive it all at once, to see what wants him to interact more.
I supposed the guy who bumped his head had merely substituted a more pervasive internal dialogue, such as the famous TM, "Aing... Aing... Aing..."
The TM people go "inward".
And so it's easier to bump your head.
Nice
Have you read the Tao Te Ching?
Yes, at 12 years old.
I'd been hanging around shamans for 3 years at that point, so I read everything weird in my fathers library, which was extensive.
Chinese philosophy is nice, but you'll be mentally masturbating for the rest of your life, if you get hooked on it.
It never leads to real magic. It's just feel-good inspirational stuff to allow yourself to imagine you are making progress.
So ask yourself. Do you want to read what the Chinese have to say about spirits, or do you want a giant demon to materialize in your bedroom at night, and threaten to bite your head off?
For real.
Take your pick.
But Daoism is a dead end. Just look around.
Where is a web page with a powerful Daoist who has students, and you can look at what the students are doing, and see that they are in fact learning.
And it's not just him, cashing in with workshops and lectures.
Where is one?
(Trying to save you from a life of pretending).
As far as the historical origins of Chinese philosophy in Mesopotamia, I’m pretty sure no one knows. And that’s the point. It’s ok not to know.
You have me there!
That poppy wine was the same as given to Christ on the cross. They called it, "Gaul".
The Romans ran on the stuff! They were paid the equivalent of a USA silver quarter, each day, plus all the opium wine they could drink.
They nearly took over the world on that stuff.
But their government devalued (removed most of the silver) the coins they were paid with, and so it all fell apart.
That is however, only one interpretation.
"Gall"
It’s ok not to know, and it’s also ok to find some stuff out.
I see, is that like ‘all lives matter?’ Because when someone says that making claims about pre-historical phenomena without supportive evidence is questionable they’re not simultaneously saying that every claim ever made is equally questionable.
Mm Hmm.
Thank you, Dan for your always intelligent replies, even when stupidly attacked.
Wait so questioning the validity of the claim that Mesopotamians on opium invented Taoism and the value of making bizarre statements like this in the context of a discussion of CC is ‘stupidly attacking?’ That’s just mean-spirited. Dan and I had a fruitful discussion. The other pseudo-history stuff may just be his rhetorical style which is fine especially if it leads to good conversation. I wonder how Dan feels about having sycophants who pounce on anyone that questions any of his words?
Idk, just seems like a bit much of elegantly dressed up mental masturbation. Could we quit obsessing over every little detail and just work on the practices and see what happens?
Question away. All for it. Could we just calm down a little and quit trying to prove how smart we are? I personally shall concede. Ok. You’re smart already. But proving we’re smart or whatever is not what this is about. It’s about actually doing something. If you’re not into that it’s cool. Many are not. But must we have go-nowhere long winded arguments over things that, lets be honest, do not matter in the scheme of things?
You are right, I tend to side with Dan, although I certainly don’t know him. I believe it’s because he always writes with intelligence and humor and a lack of self-importance. I don’t even agree with everything he says. I’m just drawn by that relative lack of self importance. I assume he got that from relating with Carlos and the witches, as that was always the first thing they warned about. Not because it’s evil or anything. Just it tends to keep us stuck in our minds.
With our attention on me me me.
It's possible I was being a grumpy guss there.
Don't know for sure. I've tried to learn to be more aggressive, but sometimes I guess wrong.
I agree, this does seem possible.
You a bot?
I wish I understood the reason for the bots.
Turing test?
Masses of data:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/20/1005454/openai-machine-learning-language-generator-gpt-3-nlp/
You know, I think we misunderstood this guy.
At least, I did.
Here's my thought: former practitioner, disillusioned, but came up with a soothing idea.
Carlos' books were a wonderful work of fiction, and his many fans enjoy them.
But don't start that crazy talk that it's true.
He also seems to have found something else dear to his heart, and I dissed it.
So his cozy idea he's on the right path now is upset if people in here actually learn sorcery.
Maybe he was another sustained action person? And alerted by a general awareness of this place, in the left over sustained action click?
I'd say we're due for at least 4 more sustained action guys, coming here to attack.
I remember one of them coming up with that soothing idea that it was just overzealous fans causing the troubles.
So perhaps he came over here to make it all go away, and not because he was interested in learning.
In fact, maybe anyone who attacks was never interested in learning.
Why on earth do men come in here, ignore what they claim to be interested in, and attack?
They want to be the big dog, and they find what they believe to be competition, so they start growling?
As far as I know, women don't do that. They might express discontent with the general mood or some wrong emphasis.
But they don't seem to try to destroy things.
Perhaps that's why lineages start with more women than men, to build some stability before the crazy angry men take over.
Carlos was under constant attack while he was holding the workshops.
It seems to be repeating again.
Every power hungry nutcase came out of the woodwork back then, to try to grab some attention for themselves.
Some followed Carlos around with video cameras, so they could defeat him by getting pictures, knowing he didn't like his picture taken. Two even hid out in the building across from Dance Home trying to video tape through the window.
I believe Carlos sent Ralph and Felix to catch them, both of them being impressive in size.
That couple had a mini-book deal in mind. An expose film with their names on the credits.
The only people to capture video of Carlos Castaneda! What fame!!!
My memory is poor on this, but I believe they didn't get into private classes, and that's what pissed them off.
If they couldn't be "special", they'd destroy the person who decided who could be special.
And you had people like Ken Eagle Feather, saying Carlos went bad, and so don Juan selected him to replace Carlos.
John is doing that to a lesser extent on his "pro-Castaneda" web pages.
He claims Howard gave him the idea that Carlos went bad. It wasn't him.
But he's spread it around to several who asked me about it.
It was from him. And ultimately from Howard.
But then, John claims he found don Juan in dreaming, who taught him even better Tensegrity moves. When asked how he knows it's don Juan, or maybe how he knows that Carlos went bad (I'm not sure which), supposedly he claims the dreaming emissary told him so.
And the dreaming emissary can't lie.
If you bring up the thought that maybe that wasn't a dreaming emissary, he claims he can see energy in dreaming, so he can't be fooled.
He also claims he can see the energy of his new tensegrity moves.
But when he visited here, and saw that some people really can see energy, and it's nothing like what he's doing, his head exploded.
If he were sincere, he'd be overjoyed to have fellow practicioners.
But he didn't want to help anyone. Same as Mikhail D.
It's a pattern.
John said he was reporting me to reddit and the police.
Suggestion: If someone has a Castaneda web page of their own, claiming to provide vital information you can use, they are a bad player.
Not a good guy.
Back when Carlos was around, you even had mysterious people going to workshops to disrupt them, so that Cleargreen had to keep a banned people list.
Some were even there trying to convince workshop participants that t hey needed to switch over to their sorcery, because only they had the "true" understanding.
Imagine going to a workshop where people are trying to learn, to steal people over to your benefit!
I believe Ken even attended a few, so he could steal some material to sell.
I suspect it's part of how the fliers mind thing came into being.
The idea of strange creatures swooping down to lick your toes, and take your energy.
And that those were stopping the workshop crowd from learning. Making them too dull and tired to learn.
It was rather late in private classes when Carlos introduced us to the fliers. Not right away.
Carlos started to see it abstractly, as some outside force attacking.
Some of you believe in the fliers, and that's fine. Even if it's a metaphor as Carlos told Amy, or it's true, as Cleargreen has been saying, it's still a fact that if you want to teach or learn sorcery, you get attacked.
And so when Carlos' doctor turned out to be chasing one of the handsome Canadian brothers, Carlos saw that as an attack also.
Which it was. It's really hard to get people to practice sorcery, and why is obvious to people in here doing darkroom gazing.
And the only "exception" in private classes was one couple, probably Miles and Aerin.
The women would whisper, if it's ok for them, why not us?
They were always on the verge of clandestine romances.
Trouble is, you actually have to put in the kind of practice time we read about in Carlos' books.
If the women started finding mates, it would destroy the fragile thing he was trying to create.
Also, if you learn to travel into the second attention far, you are sort of at the mercy of intent.
When your awareness is not being hard focused on anything in particular, you pick up "influences".
And those guide what you assemble.
I suppose Carlos saw all of life that way, because he was always navigating. Even during the day when teaching classes.
Edited to add people stealing customers at workshops.
That makes a lot of sense. I bet Carlos would laugh at us for doing a "practice". Life itself is the practice!!
I am all for it.
I suspect it's the only way to reach the level of a don Juan. You have to be practicing all the time.
Meaning, seeing energy all the time.
Why wouldnt someone do that?
And how much skill is needed for total freedom?
People can give up at any time.
We still don't know what happens to people who do dark room practices until they can stop the world, assemble another world, and have their own IOB.
Maybe that's not enough to keep everyone from stopping in the long run.
The lineages produced a sealed life style. Everyone in there was surrounded by a supportive social order.
We're surrounded by a hostile social order. And under attack, the more you learn sorcery.
As for total freedom, I prefer to stay out of that.
Just like I wouldn't recommend a technique to you guys, which I can't do myself to verify it's correct, I can't really say anything about that quest for freedom.
I don't know any more than's been written.
However, if you move your assemblage point daily along the J curve, I believe the 3rd attention is automatically reached.
This could, theoretically, work to everyone's advantage in the long run. But it will be much more trying that the paths of those in the books.
The world's been shifting away from cloistered acolytes for awhile now.
Thats true. But I suspect that if things go wrong for us, and the world is still not ready for that change, we'll accidentally create a lineage, looking for that sealed life style.
We should be on the lookout for another super-magical (haunted) mansion/compound like that one Dan found in Lake Elsinore, California.
Anyone who has traveled long enough, knows that the world is incredibly big, and there are plenty of places to hide. And we also have another 600 worlds, right?
I think the whole progress of our lineage ows its success to the heightened awareness state which was constantly applied to most of the students from centuries into centuries plus IOB that were taking part in teaching and of course talanted people who have been brought by the spirit like : Elias, Julian, Juan Matus, Carlos Castaneda etc.. without those keys we would have bunch of single people who would succeed and the rest would be like eastern block, bunch of pretenders with supergrown ego without a hint at real success in practice..
There's eastern bloc people now who understand the assemblage point for real.
I'm afraid, they'll probably all get lynched.
[deleted]
Carlos was human, he didn’t go bad, he merely succumbed to the four natural enemies upon the road to knowledge.
Fear
Clarity
Power
Old age.
Ironically the same fate was handed to the lineage of seers which taught Carlos.
Carlos in the end served as a emissary for power and his ultimate legacy is that our knowledge and attention will grow.
This was the eagles intent, even if we revolve around back to an era of evil witches and wizards.
We’ll come around again, old age will catch up.
That's sort of the "Kaliyuga" thing, but with western imagery.
How does that go?
Kali Yuga -> Satya Yuga, Treta Yuga, and Dvapara Yuga?
Kali yuga is described as living in mud, by some yogis.
River of filth?
And which of those Yuga's allowed great battles with flying ships and Mantra bombs?
I'm all for that!
How would you know what he (Carlos) may have succumbed to?
Carlos died of liver cancer at home.
Fear.
Carlos’ books were filled with analogies of how he felt he grew up rejected by his father. This grew into a fear of rejection which was exasperated by the teachings of Don Juan that instilled the fact we are alone.
Clarity.
Carlos eventually developed clarity and he created books that expertly translated experiences into language and power.
Power.
Carlos struggled with this power and that struggle was widely reported upon as him being a bad person. What I mean by struggled is even though he may have achieved impeccability in his actions his nature was not the same as Don Juan but more like Don Julian.
Don Julian by any rational point of view outside of the sorcery context was a raving lunatic.
Carlos being like Don Julian had certainly personality traits which even if they are completely normal can be interpreted by the scrutinizing public as scandalous. And they were.
Old age.
It has been reported Carlos had a rough couple years before his passing.
He died at home, his work largely unfinished.
Old age caught up to him as it will most of us. It is nothing to be ashamed of and we are all warned of in his books.
So naturally it is what it is... or is it?
Ever read the book ‘I was Carlos Castaneda’ by Martin freeman?
Is it indeed! Yes I’ve read that book. Liked it too. I just think we make a huge mistake when we figure things all out in our head and tie it with a bow. You could be right. But you have no way of knowing that.
Lol, I know because spirit has told me.
Oh well I reckon that’s another story
The few times I’ve entered into discussion with you, some sycophant keeps pouncing on me in a show of defending you. Does this bother you? Are you inevitably going to attract people looking for a ‘leader?’ Do you discourage this?
I discourage the type of thinking I see coming from you now.
Not because I judge it. But because it usually indicates someone who's wanting to be known as a teacher, so they feel aggression towards someone else who's doing what they want to be doing.
In other words, anyone who comes in here and uses the word, "Guru", applied to me, always turns out to be wanting to be a Guru.
I don't. And no definition of guru matches what I'm doing in here.
Fan maybe, as you used. I couldn't argue that. But I wasn't sure why you wanted to attack me with that label.
Anyway, there aren't any "gurus" with no contact with people, no money making enterprises, and who don't give interviews or endorse web pages.
And who talk openly like me, even about their own bad behavior.
I'm not sure what's up with you, but you have a chip on your shoulder an inch wide.
Not a big chip. Usually they're a mile wide.
But, your type is common here. Every 2 or 3 weeks we get a hostile person.
And they tend to fall into very fixed categories.
I peg you as a "good guy" type, who's gotten his feathers ruffled, making him believe he's not getting the respect he deserves as a "helpful good guy".
But you also like to poke authority figures, to make yourself feel better.
I haven't read enough comments from you. That's just a prediction.
I can't let it stand. It would undo all the hard work I'm doing here, if it became a constant male pissing contest.
So I have to confront at some point.
Next stage is usually, their head explodes.
The last guy said he as calling the police to come get me. And also turning my posts into to reddit, so they could ban me.
Carlos actually had to have guards all the time when out in public.
Oh man it’s worse than I thought. It’s the same slipping into the degenerate form of charismatic leader and mindless sycophants. It’s so particularly sad as CC gave us a poetic window into self as primary agent. The opposite of guru. I thought maybe you would echo this and discourage defensiveness on the part of people latching on to you. Oh well. The books stand on their own and you can’t take ownership of their insights. At best you’ll just gather a group, some of whom will get caught up in projecting a desire for a teacher onto you, others will figure it out and go their own way eventually.
People have been going their own way since Carlos died, and the community (if that word applies) is fractured and direction-less, and moving away from a direct link to the sorcerer's intent. Not a good prescription for actual progress. Lack of focus.
We need that right now. A course correction.
Branching out can wait awhile.
The unquestionable and defensive leader model is not a good one. It’s demoralizing to see it take hold here in a public forum about one of our favorite authors
It's not about the person, but the strength of the message.
And the example.
His example is becoming scary as I question him. Very cult leader. But just so thin-skinned and prone to defensive attacking. I think people can see this for themselves.
It's understandable. Based on his history with charlatans/profiteers, and what happened to all the people around him in private classes.
His initial reaction is too aggressively attack, "no-bullshit" as another user has described it, to reveal the actual motivations of the individual; because he's seen/been surrounded by so much insincerity.
That and the heightened awareness of his own mortality, and the projected failure of Carlo's life's work.
That’s a disappointing take on the exchange. So cult-like. He’s attacking me with weird baseless accusations (I have a website wtf?!). I’m just interested in the exchange of ideas about books that influenced my personal practice for 30 years. I come here and find slowly that a dude who claims to be in the know has gathered some sycophantic followers and attacks people angrily who engage in any discussion that questions his claims. You say he has to behave this way, cruelly and baselessly attacking anyone that questions his authority, because CC was attacked? I don’t see the connection or why he can’t just be kind and respectful. But I think we’re past that. It seems pretty clear that we a have classic cult leader type here. Just not what I was expecting. I like the scooping colors part but all the rest of this egomania is disturbing, no?
I don't focus on the individual, but on the quality of the message. It's a difficult proclivity to master. I suggest you try, and don't let your tendency to not do so interfere with any potential benefits/improvements he might add to your own personal practice.
Cool thanks. I won’t give up on the scooping colors thing then. That’s good advice thank you.
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Engaging with him sets my heartbeat speeding, engaging with you settles it. Hmm
Yep, Techno is cool alright. I kinda wish I could be like him. You, however, are a very angry, defensive man, pinning it on others.
I guess people just don’t understand you, do they?
Good advice. That's what normal people do. But can the one who is fixated on the personal most of all here be able to hear it?
You are not the only one who noticed this :))) Don't take it to heart. This is the Sunday class virus. Castaneda kicked they all out for that. But they still have not understood this.
And there is a great illustration here to see what really happened then. And this is valuable. Because now I know that the statements of the members of the Sunday classes are nothing (empty words), they are just slander of the offended people who think they are the chosen ones, but... they found only their own reflection in the "mirror", horrified by what they saw - they preferred to break the mirror.
Your egomania is disturbing, yes.
Don't envy :)))
Thin skinned? Defensive? look in a mirror, dude!
Ok, impotent hot shot inventory expert it is.
I should have guessed. Confronted with actual magic, instead of pretending, you took zero interest.
You were just sizing up the competition I suppose.
Doesn't that get old real fast? Not being able to actually do anything written in Carlos' books, and only pretending all the time?
What do you have, a web page? I sure hope not.
That would be an angry place.
Oh my god this is just vile. So creepy. I guess unmasking it has some benefit.
This is also typical.
Instead of just being honest, and admitting you aren't interested in real magic, you're trying to restore your reputation, by "being above it all".
Michail_D has been doing that for a while. Should have just gone away. There wasn't anything in here he'd be interested in, because his sorcery is pretend. Just to boost his ego.
So how long are you going to stick around with your "mission" to expose evil around you, and real kill magic so you aren't threatened by it?
But really... Why?????
Poor Carlos went through this constantly. So now you're doing what plagued him, all the while pretending to be a fan.
Were you not around back then, so not aware of what you're doing here?
Its impossible with the people who don't fight their ego, they can admit nothing... As Michail D. he will never admit anything besides his ego let him to admit smth
What puzzles me most is, none of these guys get excited when they find this place.
They get unhappy.
I believe that's a reliable sign.
No interest in the posts that most of us wait anxiously for each day.
Like Lidotska's post today.
ahahaha, see the shit virus from the Sunday classes won't let you go? Don't you see that you've turned into a cult?
Castaneda kicked you all out for that! Are you back for this again? That is why I say that your "magic" is fantasy, if you do not change for the better.
New member of the Sunday class?
calixto_mooneeeee, did your parents tell you that slandering behind people's backs is bad? :)))
It IS sad! I’m crying right now.
Oh, poor baby! What are these people doing to you?
Hey if you ever want to chat you can message me. Tenderness towards ourselves and to others.
Not gonna lie, it is hurtful to be attacked, I can feel the hormones percolating up the chest and hands shaking. Good opportunity I guess, to feel and validate rather than try to armor up or transform.
I’m going to be presumptuous and take your words as gestures of caring and curiosity:
It’s complicated but ‘these people’ for me probably starts at age 6 when I was molested by an older kid. Shortly afterwards and before I was able to tell anyone or receive any support, I was escaping civil war in my country. My parents weren’t able to leave so I spent a lonely, heartbroken, and emotionally suppressed year in a foreign country waiting for them. Fast forward to discovering Castaneda’s books as a teenager and a few years later when I realized you could actually practice the strategies. I’ve benefited daily for 30 years now and I’m forever grateful for the generosity and clarity of the works.
Within the last year I stumbled into therapy for the first time for the ptsd that I realized must be responsible for my somatic pain. I discovered a vision of self as ultimate healer, and validation rather than change as the primary healing principle. I struggled to integrate the efficacy of this new understanding with the tried and true ego de-centering work that was always so helpful. For now it’s: silent when I can but if a strong emotion arises I don’t try to transform it but to validate it.
I’ve browsed this forum like anyone who loves Castaneda’s books and like anyone in love, I’ve stood up a few times when I perceived people to be corrupting the original spirit. There is room here for all the people across a myriad of cultures, languages, and decades who have loved his works.
I do feel empathy for you, Wudan, when you’re not being aggressive and attacking. When in that mode you’re extremely quick to point the finger. Case in point, labeling people as sycophants just to bolster your case is not nice. In my case at least, I’d put up a defense for Juann or Luis or anyone here (with the possible exception of MD). For me it wasn’t at all about Dan. Except for the fact that for whatever reason you felt compelled to take on the big dog, as you perceived it. Wonder why?
Anyway, for me it was only about you. Your aggression was disruptive and felt like an attack to me. Your arguments were spurious. Immediately going to the guru/cultish thing was lazy thinking. I feel you could’ve done better.
Anyone is free to come by here and contribute or not, practice or not. People come and go as they please. Seriously, what control could Dan possibly have over us? The guru accusation is slung about constantly these days without examination. It’s convenient. I really do think you could do better.
Dan’s a dude with a mission. Nobody has to agree with it, but if you do, even tentatively, you’re welcome it seems. I personally thought Dan was being really kind with someone who was being quite confrontational for I don’t know what reason.
I also think you would profit from being more honest with yourself. These attacks that you referred to as questioning were not out of love, even if it’s true you enjoyed and used the books. They were purely out of ego. We’ve all been there and it’s a battle we all fight every day.
I myself am pretty thankful for this whole discussion. It’s a potent reminder to me to grab hold of myself and try harder to not let my ego and self-pity run the show.
Great point. I’m sure I would have been defensive too had I been critiqued the way I did Dan’s words and yours. (To your point about the motivation for questioning him, I do feel strongly about pointing out the perversion of ideas that I cherish. Interestingly, he clearly feels the same way). I don’t go to that ad hominem place that Dan did but it’s clear he’s responding to something he perceives as ongoing that has nothing to do with me. To be accused of having a website and wanting followers was just so off target that he appeared crazy and cruel but I’m sure he has his sore spots as I most certainly have mine. To the spirit of love for others and the abundance of discovery and healing that awaits us.
I see the shit virus from the Sunday classes won't let you go? Don't you see that you've turned into a cult? Castaneda kicked you all out for that. Are you back for this again? All the same, people don't learn anything. You are copying the same error. That is why I say that your "magic" is fantasy, if you do not change for the better.
Where is the evidence that Howard Lee is spreading rumors about "bad" Carlos? There are none. Because it's a lie. From the time of the Sunday classes continue to do what you do best - to slander people. Why aren't you talking about yourself? You were a member of Sunday classes and together with others ate Carlos then doused him with your own dirt. Why, instead of repenting, you throw shit at other people (without having proof other than your own inventions)?
Where is the proof your words? I have not seen any negative comments about Castaneda from Howard Lee. No one. In his statements and book, Howard Lee speaks very well of Castaneda as a friend.
The source of the rumors is Jennings, Wallace, Greg and Gaby. And other members of the "Sunday classes". Your friends! Now have you joined them again? Have you noticed that besides the members of the Sunday classes, no one else has made such shit about Carlos? Who created the site Sustained Reaction, who wrote books, who sold videos, who gave interviews for films?! They. Outside of these people, you will not find those who say such things about "bad" Carlos.
This question was very accurately and clearly described by Gurdjieff in Ouspensky's book "In Search of the Miraculous." Gurdjieff said that those who only take and complain are unable to practice. The example of Sunday classes - confirmed this truth. At first, the members only take, then they only complained. To these people always "not enough" and always "something is wrong" for them. A typical situation for Sunday classes. That these "parasites" are those "cracked people" from books. Do you recognize?
All the talk about restoring Castaneda's reputation is for them a way to exalt themselves in importance and continue to bathe in the river of crap from their own egomania. That's the whole truth. This is sad. Attacking Howard Lee without any real proof is an example of their sickening behavior.
One more thing to the topic. About people - parasites :)))
There is one truth that reveals the true motives of the parasites: the one who asks for free is the most cunning trader, because he makes others work for himself for free, without investing anything in the process except beautiful words and complaints about those who take money for work. But fools play his game :))) It's like the Communist Party, which forced ordinary people to work for free by slogans, but itself was glamorous relaxation at the resort.
Therefore, such people are constantly worried about the issue of money. They constantly mention them. But since they are cunning, they talk about other people's money, but they themselves push their plan under beautiful words.
Why doesn't this question bother normal people? Think about it. Normal people will take and buy a movie about Castaneda for $ 7, and will not talk about some nonsense that has nothing to do with real life. This is an indicator of the authenticity of the motives.
Therefore... before raising an empty hypothetical question "about money" for any reason - try to find at least one thing that you can get without money (without the resources spent in the process, because "money" is the equivalent of resources). There are no such things in reality. Even on imagination, you spend energy in the brain, which was taken from food... And no "magic" will change this law of the world. Whoever did not understand this - still lives in the child's mind. You want to take, but you don't want to give in return, so you end up empty-handed and complaining about blaming other people for your troubles. This is what happened to the members of the Sunday classes, and is still happening here.
Revere The Work, Not The Person:
">Lutheranism, from my facile understanding of it, was first formulated by Martin Luther, and he was a passionate antisemite, and along with his fideism, I am uncertain whether I should follow his teachings.
I would suggest following theology but never revering a person.... Many of them brought good ideas to the table but also had personal failings. Revere the ideas, not the people. Marx, by the way, wasn't too kindly to the Jewish people either (although he had a Jewish heritage). Most leftist theory-writers were writing at the turn of the century and think very lowly of non-westerners and african descendants. No need to "defend" these people, but their ideas that aren't wrapped up in these other sinful activities can still be used. MLKJ had numerous extramarital affairs but that is completely apart from the ideals he shared so eloquently and so passionately. The original Martin Luther was a loud, antisemitic, reactionary drunkard. But the reformation he kicked off was an extremely democratizing force. Appreciate the deeds, don't revere the people. Books, not statues."
Martin Luther's problem was he didn't know the difference between the descendants of Cain, who had infiltrated the Jewish Temples as slave workers, and the actual Jewish priests, from the correct family line(s) for priesthood.
There's a passage in the old testament where the Jews are supposed to kill everyone in a specific area, because it was infested with Fallen angel descendants.
Two of those from that area, which was nearby, dressed up as if they had traveled very far, and begged pity from the Jewish general in charge of the pending slaughter. He promised to spare them, not realizing they were from the group he was going to attack.
When he found out, he realized he'd given his word. So he made them slaves in the temple as punishment, and disobeyed God about killing everyone from that area.
As it turned out, the descendants of Cain were "vagabonds", and had learned scribeship very well. Back then, not everyone could read, write, or even count.
The descendants of those 2 took over the Church, and by the time Christ was put on trial there were no Jews left in the Temple. It was all sons of Cain.
Martin Luther didn't realize that, and blamed the Jews for killing Christ.
But he did add one good thing. He got his followers to try to read and understand the bible, something only priests did up until him.
(All this from Carlos asking me to study it.)
Does this predate Tunneshende's exposês on Magical Blend? She was the first I saw coming up with all kinds of kooky ideas about Carlos Castaneda and what he was up to with the groups of people at the workshops. How she was the real deal.
I never heard Howard talk shit about don Carlos, but what do I know?
Howard wasn't necessarily talking shit.
He was just talking Daoist. Daoists have pretend magic, which defends itself by pretending real magic is evil.
Same as Castaneda fake teachers do in the Eastern Bloc. Since it's obvious all of the stuff from the books actually works, their excuse now is that it's "evil" to do the real thing.
Howard was just saying what Daoists say about spirits leading you astray.
And he also didn't understand why Carlos had a new woman on his arm, each time he saw him.
You'd have to be a sorcerer to understand the relationship of men and women, in sorcery groups.
As far as I know, Tunneshende was a complete fraud. Carlos didn't even bother to get upset about her, something you can't say about Miguel, Ken, or Victor.
But she wasn't unique. There was Lynn Andrews too.
And if you google such topics, there's dozens of women making such claims. With crazy books of their own.
And yet...
There's a mysterious side to all of this.
Where's Cholita?
That's the mystery.
Her double came to visit me a few days ago, but otherwise if she's not in my house, I never see a trace of her.
Can't say more about Cholita, but you might imagine an 800 year old lineage would accumulate some wealth over the years.
Like Nelinda's Ming Dynasty tea set.
But Cleargreen did release a legal statement of non-association:
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/wiki/additional_resources/tunneshende
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/wiki/additional_resources/sanchez
Wish I could find the original documents/source URL's. I'll keep looking.
Found it:
Carlos Castaneda Bibliography
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Version: 1.4.9
Last-Updated: Monday july 21 14:03 GMT (CET+1) 1997
URL: ftp://ftp.earth.com/pub/archive/castaneda/bibliography
Email additions or changes to [email protected]
Vaipen is the maintainer of this fonds list. He likes to thank Tony for his
permission to do this and his help and Bob of the IML for his help and
suggestions. Also a thanks to all IML members for their input!
The many contributors have my sincerest thanks. -- [email protected]
I've updated some of the entries with the information from
the Library of Congress LOCIS Catalog and the MELVYL Catalog.
I'm also including the following note from Cleargreen, Inc. at
their request.
As being Carlos Castaneda's representative, Cleargreen,
Incorporated wishes to state the following:
Carlos Castaneda does not know and has never spoken with,
associated or communicated with Mr. Sanchez. If he ever had
any contact with this individual, it would have been an impersonal
one at any of the public lectures that Carlos Castaneda has
given through the years in Mexico. Carlos Castaneda is familiar
with Mr. Sanchez's book, The Teachings of Don Carlos. He did
not collaborate with Mr. Sanchez in preparing the text of this
book nor did he contribute to it in any way. Indeed, this book
does not correctly reflect Carlos Castaneda's views and opinions.
As Carlos Castaneda's representatives, we would like to add
that [Ms. Tunneshende] falsely claims to be associated with
Carlos Castaneda and his cohorts as well as with Don Juan Matus
and his sorcerers' party. There has never been any relationship
between them and Ms. Tunneshende.
This is a lot of words without much information. Its like you are picking up halfway through a story that at least I myself, have zero context for. All I know is that Casteneda supposedly got "caught" red handed in some sketchy stuff, but thats all I have heard, and I am 50/50 on that, even after reading this.
Nobody who’s actively and dedicatedly practicing the techniques in the books is concerned with any one individual’s reputation or history. Carlos included.
Carlos was simply doing his best with what he was presented, an in-turn at presenting it to others.
And there are no, and will never be, any perfect/immutable people on this Earth…only works in progress
Also, sorcerers are not saints or even particularly moral, unless they choose to be for some specific reason, and Carlos did not choose to be so…something that Western or even Asian culture finds alien. A mystic who doesn’t lord their perceived status or assumed holiness over others!?!
Anyway, the results of the effort speaks for itself. So much so than most people get freaked the hell out by it and retreat, either for awhile or for keeps.
I agree. Coming into his work, I actually had it in my head that he was a proven fraud, having very little knowledge of him or his work, only the rumors. However I felt that based on the little I DID know about him, or at least about Don Juan's teachings, and how they very naturally were in sync with my understanding of the "luminous egg," I feel that even if he were proven beyond reasonable doubt to be a total fraud, and even if Don Juan was never really a person he spoke with, that Spirit still used him to share something of great importance, like he was an unwitting channel. However I am no longer as convinced of/concerned with the moral judgements others pass on this one man. Either way, his work speaks for itself, but only those in the know have the eyes to see this truth.
I agree, it is irrelevant to his work.
But... Don't you want some real magic?
There's none elsewhere! You can't point to a single web page which is not just someone now or in the past, promoting something to steal money with. With no one ever managing to learn it for real.
Try! Show us.
And don't show some smiling guru who gave up Harvard to sit on little thrones and lord it over others as "enlightened".
I have to add that because a guy put that up as proof there's magic elsewhere, a few months back. The "proof" was that some people claimed he had supernatural telepathic powers and "knew" things about them that he couldn't have known.
That man couldn't see the difference between this place, and some smiling white guy guru, soaking up attention.
Even the claims he had "psychic powers" were just typical groupie praise, which makes the groupie feel good too. Mother Theresa has a lot more "supernatural" events attributed to her than that smiling Harvard guru.
I get people saying that nonsense about me also.
What I mean is, can you show us somewhere where we can see what you see in here.
Specific techniques, clear results, and a community actually working towards that goal with obvious results.
Or with people saying it's too hard for them, and giving up.
But knowing what it takes.
And not a single person after your money.
But not a "Magick" subreddit filled with "every man for himself", and no one willing to point out when someone is making up stuff to get attention.
You can easily point to that for model train enthusiasts.
Or for "ship in a bottle" builders.
Those are obvious technology, and don't invite people making up nonsense.
That's how it is in here. Just technology.
Why you should try to judge Carlos, is puzzling to me.
If you feel that way, why not go follow the Pope? Or the Dali Lama?
Or some "saint"?
None of them have actual magic.
Perhaps your motivations are all mixed up?
And by the way, Carlos never charged to teach. I learned for free from him for years, sometimes as many times as 3 per week.
Didn't charge anyone in his private classes a single penny. Even supported a few of them.
He had to charge for workshops, because when he tried to teach for free the first time, in public parks of Los Angeles, he had endless angry men attacking him trying to prove they were more powerful.
He even had threats against his life, requiring him to hire a bodyguard.
So the workshops came into being, where he could teach in a locked large room with guards outside, and a little bit of a hurdle to get in. You had to pay an entry fee to cover the facility and the dedicated teachers.
That's the other thing you didn't take into account.
There's never been any magical system where no one wants your money.
Especially not the leader.
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