You do realize that many people have no inner monologue? This is not magical, and is quite common in reality.
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u/alwiba
1 points2021-07-16 16:26
I didn't said that is a magical on my end. Just trying to understand, what is it and how to achieve proper inner silence.
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u/idahononono
1 points2021-07-16 21:49
Hey man, I’m not trying to crap on your concept it appears I just confused your use of “internal dialogue” with inner monologue. Many peoples thoughts don’t have a “voice” as we know of it, and are more abstract and experiential. But there is value in silencing random thought, and allowing yourself to experience the world with a different lens. I can acknowledge that 100%. I have done mirror gazing as taught by Tibetan Buddhists decades ago, and I am pretty sure it’s similar to the dark rooming your discussing.
I am not a believer of the blue pill/red pill theory, we all see reality to a varying degree, during our lives. But not all of us recognize truth when it’s presented. The fact that what we see with our eyes is a mental construct, generated by a physical body, that only temporarily houses us is pretty unpopular despite its truth.
I am not sure how this sub landed on my feed, it just looked like an interesting take on some other ancient practices and wisdom. So I was looking at some of the posts, I’ll leave y’all alone to do your thing. Cheers, looks like your off to a good start, I am sure our paths will cross in another arena!
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u/tabdrops
1 points2021-07-16 23:02
Call it "inner monologue", "internal dialogue" or "flow of thoughts", it doesn't matter. As long as it's going on, there's no sorcery. No belief systems, concepts or theories are needed, it's based on practice and perception. In fact, everything else would be even a nuisance.
Of course you know a red pill exists. It's your own death. But there's no need to wait until the body dies. Those are two different things. If your inner silence is deep enough, you'll experience.
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u/idahononono
1 points2021-07-16 23:09
When you become aware, you realize something external, like a red pill, can only limit you, never set you free. The Ego does not have to die, to be silenced; destruction is natural, but not required. There are many paths that lead to the same destination.
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u/tabdrops
1 points2021-07-16 23:21
Yes, it would be really better if you leave. You didn't come for learning. Sorcery in here has another destination, and there's only one known available path.
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u/idahononono
1 points2021-07-16 23:41
That’s fine, just replied to you, as I said before enjoy your journey.
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u/tabdrops
1 points2021-07-17 00:32
Yeah. And if you become aware the next time, then remember the external things. You wouldn't survive two weeks without external food. Less than two days without external water. Less than two minutes without external air. And without external energy it wouldn't be two seconds, you wouldn't even exist. Keep in mind on your journey.
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u/[deleted]
0 points2022-06-29 19:49deleted
[removed]
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u/hanskey
2 points2022-06-29 21:10
Sorcery has nothing to do with enlightenment, so your point is irrelevant. Each and every sect of Buddhists and Hindus would both disagree with you anyway, because they will tell you that the only path to enlightenment is their path and both religions and their dozens of sects are happy to commit violence in defense of being the one "true" path to enlightenment.
Your thing about dogma sounds like a westerner pretending to be a Buddhist without realizing Buddhism is extremely dogmatic, like all religions.
In the meantime, I wish you well because you clearly have a long way to go with how you so heavily misread those you replied to and how you believe in the nonsense of enlightenment.
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u/Juann2323
5 points2021-07-16 16:48
Absolutelty NO.
The internal dialogue might be a bit different among people, and in fact have different layers.
According to Dan, at a very basic level it is made of images.
It also includes fantasies of any type.
If you really stop the internal dialogue, you get enlightened, and have the possibilites I mentioned in the pic available.
I've seen it with my own eyes.
For instance, look at babies. They still don't have a dialogue, and they can hardly focus on this world. The social interaction don't mean anything to them until they are 3-5?
But you don't have to believe me. You can learn to check all of this by yourself.
If you don't want, please leave, or you will harm other people that really want to learn.
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u/glimpee
5 points2021-07-16 02:42
Interesting explanation. I have tapped into this on psychedelics for sure, though it may have been a twisted version of the state. Been working on integrating those experiences/lessons into constant reality - but from my framework this seems a helpful visual aid. Biggest thing Im facing is fundamental balance. When the internal dialogue is totally gone, so are the tools used to maintain balance, at least when I forced my way into that state with psychedelics. Its an interesting conundrum, when putting it to words
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u/Juann2323
16 points2021-07-16 03:11
Psychedelics move the assablage point vertically, if you don't get obsessed in the way (deep lateral shifts).
If you do a good meditation, they might get you to the end of the red. But not further.
They are cool for making the assamblage point more fluent, but they don't work for learning sorcery.
Anyone can check this. Try to get silent without the substance.
You can't, because you never learned how.
So you are still trapped in the ordinary position, as everyone is.
We can't scape the hard work, and the nose bleeding (a joke) for forcing intense silence for hours.
That doesn't mean you can't get substances help.
Caffeine, coca leaves, tobacco, low doses of weed or alcohol...
In the private subreddit there is a post about that.
But the problem is, people don't get serious enough to see cool results.
This is the most advanced technology in human awareness, and it needs dedication.
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u/glimpee
2 points2021-07-17 03:39
What does one actually do, then? My consciousness, day to day, is built on that exploration and shifting my conscious state, though Im not intentionally sitting and doing nothing, I attempt to practice silence, flow, and awareness and a mode of being, to put it simply.
What does getting serious actually mean, in this case? I am of the thought that there are many ways to progress, but as someone who is exploring blind with no guide, I am still experimenting
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u/Juann2323
2 points2021-07-17 13:39
Yeah, it is a good attitude, but not enough for learning sorcery.
You won't learn to get silent that way.
Moving through the J curve can take 3 hours of concentration, even to advanced darkroomers.
I can't do it while doing other things.
Maybe if you practice daily, you can get weird things to happen in daily life.
Getting serious means you dedicate enough time to learn to move the assamblage point and get silent.
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u/glimpee
2 points2021-07-17 20:50
Hm its tricky, im still not totally sure exactly what is meant by the assemblage point - as in I am not certain what shifts in my perceptual awareness constitute a shift of the assemlage point. Where does one start learning about it? Or do you just sit in silence and let oneself ruminate on the symbolism of the j-curve?
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u/Juann2323
4 points2021-07-17 22:21
You have to learn to get silent. Maybe that's a good "main task" to have.
But you will realize that you can't just do that.
You need to move to the J curve to achieve it.
And the J curve have differents position of the assemblage point, in where perception goes through specific stuff you will learn to notice.
When you have some months of practice, you will realize: "Hey, look this weird light! I've already been here!".
So you will start to notice some "linear thing", like a path, in wich you move through similar states.
The end of that path is heightened awareness, where you can really stop the internal dialogue and do amazing magic.
Having said that, the J curve is not a symbolism at all.
The fact that it can't be understood in terms of reason does not mean that the assemblage point is not 100% real, and that you can move it at will.
In fact, when you move it enough times you will find that reason is too limited to explain all there is to experience.
But don't believe, and do it yourself please.
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u/glimpee
1 points2021-07-17 22:45
Oh I want to note - I dont automatically distinguish between symbol and reality. I could imagine that people of wildly different perspectives and lifestyles have experienced it differently - but that is evidence of me building understanding of the relationship between "internal" and "external" consciousness
What youre saying makes me think I am on that path. I have experiences like that, and the linear thing like a path has been around my awareness for maybe 4 years now, in the middle of my dive into heroic doses - at the latter edge of a god complex that I rode for a year once possibility first exploded in front of me. If ive ever experienced the world stopping, that was the closest. If ive been in the red zone, and that is this state, that was the furthest I went into it - from a prepared but rigid mind. Since ive stopped taking psychedelics, those fundamental experiences have carried on in subtle, more integrated ways. Building momentum as well, it seems.
Ha, I think that first experience slapped me pretty hard with the constraints of words and reason. Hell, I cannot remember the vast majority of that experience - it drifted away as my rigid mind had no framework to compare those expreiences too.
Prehaps I am in a strange circumstance - having blasted myself relentlessly into that space with a young mind that had some balance - I now have some frame of reference for what its like for the assemblage point to radically shift, at least compared to what was once known as possible, and was training awareness and equanimity since I was young.
Could you clarify what you mean in your last line? Dont believe, do it your self? I could take that a few ways - wanted to make sure you didnt mean something more specific. I dont have anything to believe, everything is buried in reasonable doubt, nothing is static enough to truly believe in. Hell my visions/experiences of the structure of consciousness "say things" that are at odds in a rational framework. Ive had no one to really help me on this path so far, so im not sure I have much choice but to do it myself hahaha
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u/danl999
4 points2021-07-16 15:28
Power plants take you down to the red zone. So they go straight for the most vivid experiences we have in the dark room. The red zone is very alluring.
They tend to go a little sideways down there, which is in shapeshifting territory.
But they won't allow you to come up the front, so they don't reach the goal.
Which is seeing energy on a horizon.
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u/glimpee
3 points2021-07-17 03:18
Yes, Ive likened it to looking out a window instead of walking thru the door. I seem to be integrating things/states Ive learned from bashing my head into the "red zone" countless times, its been about 3 years since I stopped taking psychedelics and it does not seem that growth has stopped, or the "psychedelic" state of life has less diminished, its just more subtle. The tricky part, is not falling into delusion - or at least, an imbalanced delusion
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u/danl999
6 points2021-07-17 15:26
If you can move your assemblage point up the front, you don't have to worry about that.
Trouble is going up from the bottom.
I don't believe any other system figured out how to do that, except by accident.
Possibly that's why Meditators say to ignore weird stuff along the way.
Because they want to come up the front, but aren't aware of the assemblage point.
If you ignore the magic, you won't get off the back. You'll just go up and down there.
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u/glimpee
1 points2021-07-17 20:48
Ah I see. Honestly, it seems a lot of the growth or the shifting in my experience so far as not been from "direct" effort to do so, I think there are clues and currents in our lives that bring us to a state of quiet and equanimity, so long as we let it. The old cliche, how does one stop struggling when thats all theyve ever done? How can one unclench when their hand as is open as its ever been in their life?
I find it interesting people want to shift the assemblage point so deeply, to put such time and effort into it. Id almost think that wanting it would get in the way of the assemblage point moving beyond ones standard framing
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u/danl999
6 points2021-07-17 21:21
Not if you remove the internal dialogue.
Which is pretty much what power plants do. Or at least, they change it so much, it no longer functions normally.
That's the only thing that holds our reality in place. That little voice in your head, telling you how things are.
It focuses awareness.
Even if the awareness is only focused on a memory, those aspects of reality still remain, and thinking about them makes them glow a little.
It pulls your assemblage point there.
To make it move, you have to do 2 things.
Get rid of focusing your awareness on anything at all. Most of that can be accomplished by removing the internal dialogue. But beyond there, there's still, "self-reflection".
Which can be done with images.
Just pictures of what's bothering you, which tend to remain even if you get rid of that internal dialogue.
But even with those, you can move down to the red zone.
To come up the front again, requires getting rid of even those images.
Equanimity is the result.
Nothing is any more important than anything else and there's no longer any reason to react to anything, even a tiny bit.
You have no "feeling" about anything at all. Unless you need to.
It's not a state of depression. It's the opposite. Everything is fine the way it is.
You aren't at war anymore.
In that state you begin to perceive the entire world as pure energy, made of luminous fibers stretching out in all directions.
An infinite number of them.
Magic exists on that layer of the emanations.
On learning how to manipulate awareness so strongly, that reality changes too.
You get to "bundle" the emanations, making little football sized flames of yellow light.
If you gaze into one, you transport into a new world, where you could stay forever.
2 weeks is my limit!
You can also, "skim" emanations.
Maybe that's a little like casting the yarrow sticks, not liking your fortune, so you cheat and move them just slightly with your finger tips.
New business proposition for someone:
Magical Yarrow sticks...
You'd have to figure out how to teach people to move their assemblage points using the sticks as the focus.
But I guarantee they could learn to view a little dreaming scene right above the yarrow sticks, which shows the details of the fortune.
How many you could sell, who knows?
I used to have 8000 retail outlets for my video games.
Everyone one of them took a couple of any new release.
There's probably something similar for crystal/witchcraft shops.
Naturally if someone made that product, they'd have to master it first. For real.
And do some nice web page work.
Maybe we could make an "Olmec sorcery guild", and license approved and proven products?
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u/glimpee
2 points2021-07-17 21:51
Hm this actually brings an intersting conundrum in my state of being.
Nothing is any more important than anything else and there's no longer any reason to react to anything, even a tiny bit.
You have no "feeling" about anything at all. Unless you need to.
It's not a state of depression. It's the opposite. Everything is fine the way it is.
This is already very close to if not what I experience day to day, and have for a while. Though I do not think I am TOTALLY there, as I can occasionally slip (really only seems to happen with my parents, and rarely at that, and that helps identify another point of my framework)
Im not at war, nor do I see luminous energy. My understanding is less interactive as a daily experience. Curious, though, does everyone see those enimations the same?
Everything you say before that sounds a lot like what Im doing, although I do not practice sitting meditation.
And there is the conundrum, do I really care to really attempt to move my assemblage point? Everything is already moving, theres nothing really to do, everything is deeply engaging and powerful. My awareness is tightening on its own, why struggle to force it? From your words about the assemblage point and it moving, I've certainly started on a path - I really cant say what it ends in, but I also dont think Im really supposed to. takes away from the spirit of the moment, the balancing of the self - which just seems to happen on its own.
Though in my current state, ive played quite a lot with perception, expectation, attention, etc and seeing how they play with the external and metaphysical. I can only watch thru shadows and reflection - and assumptions, but I think I know what youre talking about.
When I experienced the "Red zone" on psychedelics, it was presented to me as "reality breaking." Makes sense, you no longer have the structures you build to identify reality. The subconscious REALLY takes liberty in blending the gaps.
Ive always had a very strong, stable foundation to my perceptual organizational and rationality and emotional structures. Young on I thought a lot about how to be a "natural human" - to ignore what I was told about being a human (to a degree) and find out what emerged from me. Means I had some very intentional and very sturdy structures in my mind, still do to a large degree, and am slowly working my way down them and figuring them out. Not really intentionally, just seems to be where my feet are going
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u/danl999
5 points2021-07-18 14:35
Curious, though, does everyone see those enimations the same?
No, everyone sees them a little differently. But there are common features, like the strings of light.
I suppose there's more variation in how those are seen, because they don't "overlap" from a container, the way objects do.
>do I really care to really attempt to move my assemblage point?
No one who used power plants a lot ever does.
It spoils them for learning sorcery.
At least so far. And I guess some in here used them and do darkroom.
But I figure they didn't use as many.
The reason the others stop, is the same you just mentioned.
They believe they've already done it. So why bother with the hard work part?
Of course they haven't.
But they get furious when I point that out.
Usually I get attacked after that.
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u/glimpee
1 points2021-07-18 19:16
Oh no, I dont believe ive already done it, if anything I glanced out a window - its more "is this something I should/will actually put structured and consistent effort in achieving?"
Like for example, I mentioned that in many things, pushing to unlock it only forces the door shut. Further, im not certain I really believe in the view you have (no offense) enough to seperate a sixth of each day to practice a specific series of practices around silence, different than the ones I practice.
But that is why im talking to you, to learn more about your thoughts and the system of growth/development in that direction.
Edit - to clarify, I am doing work in practicing and fostering silence / natural flow, I mean more for the forcing myself into silence. Seems likely a fear/laziness rationalization
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u/danl999
3 points2021-07-18 20:49
We don't make any money at this, it's not a religion, it's not a cult, and it's not an intellectual pursuit.
It's a negative to have people in here who aren't practicing but like to comment and post anyway. Especially the ones who believe they're on an alternative to the same path.
Unfortunately, I don't believe it's possible to explain to them why.
Or even how serious it can be to others.
We call it, "counter intent". But you'd have to have experienced the orange zone and the perils of trying to get there, in order to understand it.
So as harsh as it sounds, it's better if you go somewhere else.
For all of us, including you.
We've had at least 2 others like you come through here.
There's no reason to expect a different result.
But I don't control who posts in there. Best I can do is hasten a head explosion.
You don't seem like the exploding head type.
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u/glimpee
1 points2021-07-18 21:27
I do not know if I am on an alternate to the same path, just exploring in this conversation
You have a lot of information I havent heard, that I dont remember in my first reading in the books. I am trying to build an understanding of what youre talking about in context to what I know/what I have done.
Im not even totally sure what the path Im on is or where it leads. I am in a period between phases, reeling from banging my head into "the red zone" (these zones are something I havent heard of before you mentioned them,) reorienting, and observing. From what you are saying, it seems there is a lot more information about the casteneda path than I had realized.
I will say, I am a bit frightened due to my last experiences - cautious now. I know how dangerous going into altered states can be at points in which rational reality goes out the window without balance or equanimity. Part of me fears going back without extreme care, and exploring this on my own I end up walking slow. I think too slow, now.
I find it interesting, here you say "Carlos said he created the books as a "hook". Just let yourself get hooked for a while. I wouldn't advise trying to practice each one as you encounter it, that'll break the spell. Just try to increase your level of silence. That's something you can do, without actually having to make the time to do it." - it seems you are saying something different, now?
edit2 - oh im a bit dense, the red/orange zone on the j curve, got it. Yeah Im not sure if Ive moved it that far/experienced it moved that far - I dont know enough about them. Only time I read the books was about 6 years ago during my god complex, this sounds like a good time to read them again
edit 3 - as this has given me pause, I am doing some reading. Im finding this explination interesting - https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/obqx2a/detailed_description_of_the_j_curve/ - From that description I can hit the green zone quite easily, but I stop there and get engrossed by what emerges, then casually move on. I think I once actually got to the red zone, sober. Someone gave me LSD I knew was bunk but did not let myself consciously concede that. So I medidated for 2-3 hours focusing on the sensation of that comeup feeling and silencing all thought. When I opened my eyes, I experienced much of what this poster says the red zone is like. I did not continue to focus my attention, but instead played in that zone. 4 hrs later, I consciously realized the LSD was bunk, and the experience ended. I think Ive touched orange a few times at least on psychedelics, and I delifetely lost my cool three of those times, which is why Im taking it so slow and cautious right now. I think it does make sense to start practicing this again, I will have to watch that fear. From his descriptions, Ive went to the orange zone with the help of psychedelics, or a distorted version of it, and there certainly is great danger is going there the wrong way. That is a big reason I am cautious to start active practicing before I know ive learned and growd adequately from those mistakes
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u/glimpee
1 points2021-07-19 17:54
Just wanted to thank you for the conversation. It gave me a little push I think I needed. I spend a good bit of time looking into various meditation practices over the years and always felt they were missing quite a lot, it seemed silly to focus on them for 1 hr + a day when I was achieving similar results without doing it. Looking more into the j-curve after all this time has me realizing that a lot of what I was trying to explore is already mapped, here. I started practicing again yesterday, and certainly have some ways to go in silencing the mind. While I think im capable of slipping into the green zone, perhaps ive lossened my baseline assemblage point position/resistence - but it will take me some practice to be able to do more than slightly enter it (if I understand it correct) consciouslly.
So thank you for your honesty and info
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u/glimpee
2 points2021-07-23 15:12
Ive been reading and attempting the practice since we spoke. You were right, I was giving out a perspective that could be harmful to those trying to follow the path, and I was being a bad player. Im going to keep practicing, there seem to be swaths of information here about everything ive experienced so far, so I will keep to mostly lurking here and practicing.
I very much appreciate your reality check. It slapped me into motion.
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u/danl999
2 points2021-07-23 16:31
You'll be the first if you keep it up!
Techno's always rooting for this sort of thing.
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u/glimpee
3 points2021-07-23 18:26
Ha, a worthwhile persuit then! Perhaps I can learn something useful. Ill say at least, this is the least dissonant practice ive engaged in, the results are undeniable - I first tried DRG the night after we spoke, before I read the experience/what to look for, and was honestly surprised by the fact that each of the things I saw/experienced are detailed in this sub. You all have done some amazing work so far. This is all much more distilled than the books, even
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u/tryerrr
1 points2021-08-11 16:49
Perhaps moving down with less distraction/friction conserves momentum needed to go up (in addition to gaze-pull)?
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u/danl999
2 points2021-08-11 18:03
Maybe, but as long as you're doing that, you'll get nowhere.
You'll just keep pretending, because you won't have anything to keep you honest.
Worse, you'll get snobby about it. Turning up your nose at magic, when in fact you have none.
In other words, you'll turn Buddhist.
The perfect patsy.
Taught to ignore magic, so you don't complain when there's none. You'll think you're doing good!
Taught it can take several lifetimes, so the temple has the biggest chance for you to be an idiot, and not figure out it isn't working and never will.
Taught the other guys, the ones in saffron clown suits up on a cold mountain have already achieved more than you ever will.
So shut up and keep filling the donation box.
I honestly don't think they know enough to plan what you suggest.
That would imply they can move it at all, except by accident.
You won't even be able to find a single Buddhist, who understands that you can simply move it, and achieve the results of his decades of meditation.
They don't even possess that knowledge.
Most couldn't even tell you why power plants work.
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u/Jiraiya_ROFL
1 points2022-06-01 15:26
Paradox
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u/glimpee
1 points2022-06-01 15:32
I think ive settled the paradox, and its quite simple
Force silence
I thought i was further than i am, when i wrote that.
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u/Jiraiya_ROFL
1 points2022-06-01 16:28
My last trip all that was repeating in my head was how our world is a paradox. Once you stop desiring something you allow it in your life. I think silent meditation and meditating on god gets my mind to become silent which I believe led me to this sub. I’m looking for more material on Castaneda rn while I’m at work.
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u/glimpee
1 points2022-06-01 16:33
One thing to note, this is an exclusionary practice. Dont mix it with other practices or things you think you know.
Read up on dark room gazing and the j curve. You can start practicing immediately.
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u/smudgehawg
1 points2022-09-30 05:43
Where can I read up on dark room gazing and the j curve if I may intrude
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u/glimpee
1 points2022-09-30 07:15
You can search them while in this subreddit and i believe there are resources at the sidebar
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u/JustinBilyj
2 points2021-07-16 02:57
James Endredy has great descriptions of what the different levels of attention are and how to access them - beyond what Castaneda elucidated on.
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u/tabdrops
1 points2021-07-16 09:41
Did he teach real sorcery to a lot of people or just sell his books?
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u/JustinBilyj
1 points2021-07-16 11:48
LOL, considering his methods and teachings are within all the other descendant tribes surrounding mesoamerica, and my own effects - I'd say they're 100% real...
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u/tabdrops
0 points2021-07-16 14:22
100% real methods and teachings leading beyond Castaneda? I was curious and so I visited his website. And I've already stopped at his welcome page. It's all about "my books, my books and my books". Good night.
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u/JustinBilyj
2 points2021-07-16 14:24
Your self-importance will hinder your development no doubt...
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u/tabdrops
1 points2021-07-16 14:30
New bad player spotted?
Sounds like.
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u/danl999
3 points2021-07-16 15:35
He's probably a "groupie type". This is common on Facebook.
Groupie types haven't learned anything themselves, and never will.
They just like to go from place to place, absorbing new inventory from new "teachers".
The reward they get is in telling others they "found the best thing".
It's always horrible. What they found is always so bad, it makes you sad to see how they were tricked.
But they never learn. They don't want to.
So there's no reason to feel sad for them.
Sometimes they change.
But only after many, many years.
Such a waste of time...
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u/Sovereign444
1 points2022-06-29 19:51
It seems you’re also telling others that you “found the best thing,” no? What they’re describing is just the “best thing” they’ve found so far.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
2 points2022-06-29 21:15
It's not about what you've found, but about what you work at.
What you work at, turns out to not matter that much; as long as your intent is in-sync with "The Intent of The Sorcerer's of Ancient Mexico." A rather specific thing in spirit, but not so much in outward form....which is why it's amendable to be continuously modernized and improved upon thru the centuries by the direct experience/feedback of those who practice it.
NO UNEXAMINED DOGMA in other words; like the lion's share of every other similar and esoteric human creation.
Dan is stating that the continuous searching (or reviewing) is what has to cease, to actually progress and evolve.
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u/hanskey
2 points2022-06-29 21:28
Irreducible energetic facts are also not dogma.
Dogma depends on beliefs, energetic facts don't.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
2 points2022-06-29 21:53
Looking for magic ✨ instead of answers, is perhaps the most succinct way to put the mood of those ancient sorcerers.
Modern man is obsessed with answers...far too much for our own good (answers aren't necessarily facts, since everything is relative).
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u/tabdrops
2 points2022-06-29 22:23
You deleted your other comment? That wasn't necessary. I wrote that answer:
Enlightenment isn't a permanent state. If you think it's different, you're in a dead end from the sorcery point of view. Stories about permanent enlightenment are dogma.
While moving the assemblage point along the J-curve, enlightenment is just as temporary as logic and rationality are in the usual position of the assemblage point. However, almost no one notices this because everyone is stuck in the dead end of reason.
It's a deeply personal decision to want to change this miserable state. It's not a question of intellect or ideology. What's experienced in inner silence are real and direct perceptions and not associations or interpretations.
Dogma is interpretation stuff. Where nothing's gonna interpreted, dogma is strictly excluded. Everything else is a dead end.
We're not interested in dead ends. Sorcery is a highway, the only known highway. No one ever found another highway like this.
According to your reasoning, you don't like the fact that there's only this one highway, and then it's supposed to be described in this totally crazy reddit group of all places. And yes, indeed, it may seem strange that in the middle of the labyrinth full of dead ends (we also call it the river of shit), there's only this single, tiny signpost pointing towards the highway.
This inconspicuous, lonely signpost seems so strange to almost everyone that people would like to destroy it, so that nothing at all reminds them of how broken life has actually become these days.
That's the situation.
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u/TechnoMagical_Intent
1 points2021-07-16 15:45
This isn't a James Endredy sub. If you can go through his material and present a cogent presentation of what he has to say about different levels of attention, and how you think they're "beyond Castaneda," than that is worthy of debate.
Edit: never mind I see that you made a post here 4 months ago.
You are officially warned to stop it with the Endredy stuff.
We don't need any alternative explanations or additional practices when people have enough trouble even having the time to practice the ones that Castaneda himself used.
There are too many distractions in the world, as is, without overly-enabling individuals in our own sub to do the same.
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u/DrMacacoSmith
2 points2021-07-16 10:35
Can you explain the J curve and the different points in it in simple words?
It is very important to locate what you experience in the J curve.
During a session, it lets you know where you are standing. Also, you can estimate quite precisely how long you need to get somewhere, and evaluate which direction to take.
But it is not a step by step that you can follow. I wish it were!
I can't even follow my own description, and if at some point I don't forget about it, I can't keep moving forward.
Changing the rules of the game means you have to give up "understanding" everything as procedures, as we normally do.
Wich is very painful at first! Remember we are men of Reason...
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u/DrMacacoSmith
1 points2021-07-16 15:45
Thank you very much!! I'll check it out :D
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u/danl999
13 points2021-07-16 15:25
It's beautiful!
It looks like an "Avengers" super hero at his computer system.
Last night I reached a level of silence I haven't seen before.
It comes and goes in the darkroom. A "different" kind of silence. One day you can find it, if you keep your concentration, then the next day it makes no sense. You can't find it again.
Self-sustaining silence.
But last night it was so absolute that I "knew" I didn't need anything else. Just to learn to hold that. It was a very odd feeling.
Each time I could create the "feeling", I saw perfect little vertical lines. The silence transformed the darkness into a scene of whitish energy, with some distinct vertical lines where I was focusing.
At that level of silence I was simply perceiving what was available in the direction I was facing.
Doesn't sound like much, but it was close to what I assume we were like, before we took a birth here.
Just a bundle of awareness watching what was there, with no motivations or prejudices.
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u/WhatsGoingggOn
4 points2021-07-21 14:42
Were they vertical lines staggered in an almost wave pattern?
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u/danl999
8 points2021-07-21 16:47
No, but they certainly could have been.
Think of it this way.
We can't really perceive the emanations.
We can only perceive how our awareness flows in them, and echos back into our own shell, on the ones we also contain.
So we're always looking at an effect of the emanations, not themselves.
And although they have no motivations, because we can only see their effects you could say that "they don't like to be in their raw form".
That they long, even strive, to take shape.
Once they have a shape, it's one of trillions of possible shapes they could assume.
If they randomly jumped from shape to shape, we'd see nothing.
So they like to "stick" to whatever shape they have.
But, if you gaze away for a bit, and come back, they've mutated to another shape.
The glow of awareness dimmed a bit, moved, and the new result looks different.
When I first learned to see "the wall", I believed it always had vertical lines. Fine lines, like wood grain.
Then one day I experimented. I wanted to know if the vertical lines were more spread out, depending on which direction you were looking.
North, South, East, West.
So I tried it out. I gazed south for a while, then north, looking for differences.
I couldn't find any.
But now, I had "challenged" intent!
Suddenly, intent took perverse pleasure in switching the direction of the lines.
I'd glance east, and see horizontal lines. That got me excited, so I glanced north again, and found vertical lines.
Eager, I glanced back east expecting horizontal lines, but they were now diagonal.
So I looked back north, trying to "reset" with vertical lines, and I got worms.
Little round worms that seemed to be made of the same lines, having curled in on themselves.
I won't explain what happened next, because all of you might get to do this, by accident.
I discovered how to "play a game" with intent.
And it responded!
That's what Zuleica tried to teach us, with her outdoor "searching for power" game.
Intent "gifts you".
But not often enough.
If you want more often, you have to learn to engage it in a game.
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u/WhatsGoingggOn
1 points2021-07-23 20:25
Wow. Beautifully put, I appreciate you putting it into words
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u/[deleted]
1 points2022-07-01 15:05deleted
[deleted]
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u/danl999
2 points2022-07-01 15:33
After realizing we're practicing what was taught to us by Carlos Castaneda, some of us in person, and seeing if you like reading his books, next best is to read older posts in here.
I collected the ones I made which I felt had the nicest pictures for around a year, in a link on the side where the wiki is located.
But since then there's just too many posts.
The one on "Silent Knowledge" is likely the very best "map".
So tell yourself one thing first. Until you understand, it's the truth.
That picture is NOT an exaggeration.
That's REAL. You not only get to experience what you see there, but 100 times more.
Daily. For hours if you can find the time.
You'll make Harry Potter and Merlin the Magician look feeble.
Dr. Strange?
Well... At least he'll be jealous of you once in a while.
Last night I was compressing "Chaos Balls" of colored light, and throwing them down a tunnel that goes 6000 miles to where a witch lives.
I could "remote view" her surrounding area by gazing off at the puff, 6000 miles away.
For real. Eyes open. No drugs. Fully awake.
We kick the Buddha's skinny ass.
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u/danl999
3 points2021-07-16 16:12
The Spanish text version of this on Instagram got likes at around 3 times the normal rate, of the English only posts.
Unless it's some sort of "Friday" coincidence that puts more eyes on their social media.
Looks to me like the Spanish speaking audience is bigger.
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u/Juann2323
5 points2021-07-16 16:55
Yeah, friday probably helps, but remember the sorcery technique I teached you!
Use the Hashtags #!
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u/danl999
2 points2021-07-16 17:39
I still haven't seen where to put those. Could be computer versus cellphone.
I'll try next time.
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u/Juann2323
1 points2021-07-17 13:13
In the description. You can even choose to not use any text and only hashtags.
But I don't know if it works in computer. If it let you add a text, then it should work.
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u/danl999
3 points2021-07-17 15:27
I'll try it. I was going to make an interesting diagram anyway.
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u/Juann2323
3 points2021-07-17 22:13
Btw, I think we need to take a step more, Lilly was right.
I believe we have to call it "The New Sorcery Path".
That name may have some advantages, such as that people can make a difference with the teachings in lineages, like the one in the books.
This new path might have considerable differences, like bringing new profiles of apprentices.
And it should be described as something different. Of course, we won't have very detailed descriptions until we have more people learning.
I also had the feeling that we have to make it "more serious", and create a website, a book and videos on YouTube.
The path itself wants to work!
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u/Emmanuelle1000
1 points2021-07-16 21:22
This is very helpful. Thanks.
I like how you guys are getting better at describing these abstract phenomena.
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u/kulucthulhu
1 points2022-08-18 23:10
damn is that what that’s called.
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u/At_The_Left_Hand_Of
2 points2023-06-20 22:52
Difficult to pull out the yardstick and gauge humanity as a whole. Some say where headed toward a world crisis while others say humanity is at a standstill and James l desper wrote a book called the end of history based off of the premises of Carlos Castaneda work. In other words I scan all the problems going on in the world while castanedians are having the time of their lives…..
78 Comments
Perhaps a picture is better to give a general idea of what sorcery really is.
That's the garden where I usually J curve!
What is an eternal dialog? Can someone explain, in simple words?
Internal. Like the voices inside your head explaining things as you see them. Your conscious thoughts.
The Internal dialogue is the voice we have in the head. It tells us how the world is and who we are.
At the normal position of the assamblage point, we are totally identified with it.
It never stops thinking, and every idea we accept modifies the flow of energy that we perceive from the universe, to mold it to itself.
All of this is not so obvious until the assemblage point begins to move.
If you are interested in checking yourself how "reality" works, and even getting to the point where it is 'destroyed', you should start Darkrooming.
You take the blue pill: the story ends, you wake up in your bed, and believe whatever you want to believe.
You take the red pill: you stay in wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Matrix
Although taking the red pill might take a few months (weeks if you work hard, or a session if you are lidotska).
But I don't hear any voices in my head. I can stop thinking, but , it seems like it's not it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/m1oqf1/he_spent_a_week_in_darkness_and_saw_nothingproof/gqi17d6
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/mtfwhb/even_better_j_curve_diagram/gw210of
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/gay9i8/struggling_with_silence/
You do realize that many people have no inner monologue? This is not magical, and is quite common in reality.
I didn't said that is a magical on my end. Just trying to understand, what is it and how to achieve proper inner silence.
Hey man, I’m not trying to crap on your concept it appears I just confused your use of “internal dialogue” with inner monologue. Many peoples thoughts don’t have a “voice” as we know of it, and are more abstract and experiential. But there is value in silencing random thought, and allowing yourself to experience the world with a different lens. I can acknowledge that 100%. I have done mirror gazing as taught by Tibetan Buddhists decades ago, and I am pretty sure it’s similar to the dark rooming your discussing.
I am not a believer of the blue pill/red pill theory, we all see reality to a varying degree, during our lives. But not all of us recognize truth when it’s presented. The fact that what we see with our eyes is a mental construct, generated by a physical body, that only temporarily houses us is pretty unpopular despite its truth.
I am not sure how this sub landed on my feed, it just looked like an interesting take on some other ancient practices and wisdom. So I was looking at some of the posts, I’ll leave y’all alone to do your thing. Cheers, looks like your off to a good start, I am sure our paths will cross in another arena!
Call it "inner monologue", "internal dialogue" or "flow of thoughts", it doesn't matter. As long as it's going on, there's no sorcery. No belief systems, concepts or theories are needed, it's based on practice and perception. In fact, everything else would be even a nuisance.
Of course you know a red pill exists. It's your own death. But there's no need to wait until the body dies. Those are two different things. If your inner silence is deep enough, you'll experience.
When you become aware, you realize something external, like a red pill, can only limit you, never set you free. The Ego does not have to die, to be silenced; destruction is natural, but not required. There are many paths that lead to the same destination.
Yes, it would be really better if you leave. You didn't come for learning. Sorcery in here has another destination, and there's only one known available path.
That’s fine, just replied to you, as I said before enjoy your journey.
Yeah. And if you become aware the next time, then remember the external things. You wouldn't survive two weeks without external food. Less than two days without external water. Less than two minutes without external air. And without external energy it wouldn't be two seconds, you wouldn't even exist. Keep in mind on your journey.
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Sorcery has nothing to do with enlightenment, so your point is irrelevant. Each and every sect of Buddhists and Hindus would both disagree with you anyway, because they will tell you that the only path to enlightenment is their path and both religions and their dozens of sects are happy to commit violence in defense of being the one "true" path to enlightenment.
Your thing about dogma sounds like a westerner pretending to be a Buddhist without realizing Buddhism is extremely dogmatic, like all religions.
In the meantime, I wish you well because you clearly have a long way to go with how you so heavily misread those you replied to and how you believe in the nonsense of enlightenment.
Absolutelty NO.
The internal dialogue might be a bit different among people, and in fact have different layers.
According to Dan, at a very basic level it is made of images.
It also includes fantasies of any type.
If you really stop the internal dialogue, you get enlightened, and have the possibilites I mentioned in the pic available.
I've seen it with my own eyes.
For instance, look at babies. They still don't have a dialogue, and they can hardly focus on this world. The social interaction don't mean anything to them until they are 3-5?
But you don't have to believe me. You can learn to check all of this by yourself.
If you don't want, please leave, or you will harm other people that really want to learn.
Interesting explanation. I have tapped into this on psychedelics for sure, though it may have been a twisted version of the state. Been working on integrating those experiences/lessons into constant reality - but from my framework this seems a helpful visual aid. Biggest thing Im facing is fundamental balance. When the internal dialogue is totally gone, so are the tools used to maintain balance, at least when I forced my way into that state with psychedelics. Its an interesting conundrum, when putting it to words
Psychedelics move the assablage point vertically, if you don't get obsessed in the way (deep lateral shifts).
If you do a good meditation, they might get you to the end of the red. But not further.
They are cool for making the assamblage point more fluent, but they don't work for learning sorcery.
Anyone can check this. Try to get silent without the substance.
You can't, because you never learned how.
So you are still trapped in the ordinary position, as everyone is.
We can't scape the hard work, and the nose bleeding (a joke) for forcing intense silence for hours.
That doesn't mean you can't get substances help.
Caffeine, coca leaves, tobacco, low doses of weed or alcohol...
In the private subreddit there is a post about that.
But the problem is, people don't get serious enough to see cool results.
This is the most advanced technology in human awareness, and it needs dedication.
What does one actually do, then? My consciousness, day to day, is built on that exploration and shifting my conscious state, though Im not intentionally sitting and doing nothing, I attempt to practice silence, flow, and awareness and a mode of being, to put it simply.
What does getting serious actually mean, in this case? I am of the thought that there are many ways to progress, but as someone who is exploring blind with no guide, I am still experimenting
Yeah, it is a good attitude, but not enough for learning sorcery.
You won't learn to get silent that way.
Moving through the J curve can take 3 hours of concentration, even to advanced darkroomers.
I can't do it while doing other things.
Maybe if you practice daily, you can get weird things to happen in daily life.
Getting serious means you dedicate enough time to learn to move the assamblage point and get silent.
Hm its tricky, im still not totally sure exactly what is meant by the assemblage point - as in I am not certain what shifts in my perceptual awareness constitute a shift of the assemlage point. Where does one start learning about it? Or do you just sit in silence and let oneself ruminate on the symbolism of the j-curve?
You have to learn to get silent. Maybe that's a good "main task" to have.
But you will realize that you can't just do that.
You need to move to the J curve to achieve it.
And the J curve have differents position of the assemblage point, in where perception goes through specific stuff you will learn to notice.
When you have some months of practice, you will realize: "Hey, look this weird light! I've already been here!".
So you will start to notice some "linear thing", like a path, in wich you move through similar states.
The end of that path is heightened awareness, where you can really stop the internal dialogue and do amazing magic.
Having said that, the J curve is not a symbolism at all.
The fact that it can't be understood in terms of reason does not mean that the assemblage point is not 100% real, and that you can move it at will.
In fact, when you move it enough times you will find that reason is too limited to explain all there is to experience.
But don't believe, and do it yourself please.
Oh I want to note - I dont automatically distinguish between symbol and reality. I could imagine that people of wildly different perspectives and lifestyles have experienced it differently - but that is evidence of me building understanding of the relationship between "internal" and "external" consciousness
What youre saying makes me think I am on that path. I have experiences like that, and the linear thing like a path has been around my awareness for maybe 4 years now, in the middle of my dive into heroic doses - at the latter edge of a god complex that I rode for a year once possibility first exploded in front of me. If ive ever experienced the world stopping, that was the closest. If ive been in the red zone, and that is this state, that was the furthest I went into it - from a prepared but rigid mind. Since ive stopped taking psychedelics, those fundamental experiences have carried on in subtle, more integrated ways. Building momentum as well, it seems.
Ha, I think that first experience slapped me pretty hard with the constraints of words and reason. Hell, I cannot remember the vast majority of that experience - it drifted away as my rigid mind had no framework to compare those expreiences too.
Prehaps I am in a strange circumstance - having blasted myself relentlessly into that space with a young mind that had some balance - I now have some frame of reference for what its like for the assemblage point to radically shift, at least compared to what was once known as possible, and was training awareness and equanimity since I was young.
Could you clarify what you mean in your last line? Dont believe, do it your self? I could take that a few ways - wanted to make sure you didnt mean something more specific. I dont have anything to believe, everything is buried in reasonable doubt, nothing is static enough to truly believe in. Hell my visions/experiences of the structure of consciousness "say things" that are at odds in a rational framework. Ive had no one to really help me on this path so far, so im not sure I have much choice but to do it myself hahaha
Power plants take you down to the red zone. So they go straight for the most vivid experiences we have in the dark room. The red zone is very alluring.
They tend to go a little sideways down there, which is in shapeshifting territory.
But they won't allow you to come up the front, so they don't reach the goal.
Which is seeing energy on a horizon.
Yes, Ive likened it to looking out a window instead of walking thru the door. I seem to be integrating things/states Ive learned from bashing my head into the "red zone" countless times, its been about 3 years since I stopped taking psychedelics and it does not seem that growth has stopped, or the "psychedelic" state of life has less diminished, its just more subtle. The tricky part, is not falling into delusion - or at least, an imbalanced delusion
If you can move your assemblage point up the front, you don't have to worry about that.
Trouble is going up from the bottom.
I don't believe any other system figured out how to do that, except by accident.
Possibly that's why Meditators say to ignore weird stuff along the way.
Because they want to come up the front, but aren't aware of the assemblage point.
If you ignore the magic, you won't get off the back. You'll just go up and down there.
Ah I see. Honestly, it seems a lot of the growth or the shifting in my experience so far as not been from "direct" effort to do so, I think there are clues and currents in our lives that bring us to a state of quiet and equanimity, so long as we let it. The old cliche, how does one stop struggling when thats all theyve ever done? How can one unclench when their hand as is open as its ever been in their life?
I find it interesting people want to shift the assemblage point so deeply, to put such time and effort into it. Id almost think that wanting it would get in the way of the assemblage point moving beyond ones standard framing
Not if you remove the internal dialogue.
Which is pretty much what power plants do. Or at least, they change it so much, it no longer functions normally.
That's the only thing that holds our reality in place. That little voice in your head, telling you how things are.
It focuses awareness.
Even if the awareness is only focused on a memory, those aspects of reality still remain, and thinking about them makes them glow a little.
It pulls your assemblage point there.
To make it move, you have to do 2 things.
Get rid of focusing your awareness on anything at all. Most of that can be accomplished by removing the internal dialogue. But beyond there, there's still, "self-reflection".
Which can be done with images.
Just pictures of what's bothering you, which tend to remain even if you get rid of that internal dialogue.
But even with those, you can move down to the red zone.
To come up the front again, requires getting rid of even those images.
Equanimity is the result.
Nothing is any more important than anything else and there's no longer any reason to react to anything, even a tiny bit.
You have no "feeling" about anything at all. Unless you need to.
It's not a state of depression. It's the opposite. Everything is fine the way it is.
You aren't at war anymore.
In that state you begin to perceive the entire world as pure energy, made of luminous fibers stretching out in all directions.
An infinite number of them.
Magic exists on that layer of the emanations.
On learning how to manipulate awareness so strongly, that reality changes too.
You get to "bundle" the emanations, making little football sized flames of yellow light.
If you gaze into one, you transport into a new world, where you could stay forever.
2 weeks is my limit!
You can also, "skim" emanations.
Maybe that's a little like casting the yarrow sticks, not liking your fortune, so you cheat and move them just slightly with your finger tips.
New business proposition for someone:
Magical Yarrow sticks...
You'd have to figure out how to teach people to move their assemblage points using the sticks as the focus.
But I guarantee they could learn to view a little dreaming scene right above the yarrow sticks, which shows the details of the fortune.
How many you could sell, who knows?
I used to have 8000 retail outlets for my video games.
Everyone one of them took a couple of any new release.
There's probably something similar for crystal/witchcraft shops.
Naturally if someone made that product, they'd have to master it first. For real.
And do some nice web page work.
Maybe we could make an "Olmec sorcery guild", and license approved and proven products?
Hm this actually brings an intersting conundrum in my state of being.
This is already very close to if not what I experience day to day, and have for a while. Though I do not think I am TOTALLY there, as I can occasionally slip (really only seems to happen with my parents, and rarely at that, and that helps identify another point of my framework)
Im not at war, nor do I see luminous energy. My understanding is less interactive as a daily experience. Curious, though, does everyone see those enimations the same?
Everything you say before that sounds a lot like what Im doing, although I do not practice sitting meditation.
And there is the conundrum, do I really care to really attempt to move my assemblage point? Everything is already moving, theres nothing really to do, everything is deeply engaging and powerful. My awareness is tightening on its own, why struggle to force it? From your words about the assemblage point and it moving, I've certainly started on a path - I really cant say what it ends in, but I also dont think Im really supposed to. takes away from the spirit of the moment, the balancing of the self - which just seems to happen on its own.
Though in my current state, ive played quite a lot with perception, expectation, attention, etc and seeing how they play with the external and metaphysical. I can only watch thru shadows and reflection - and assumptions, but I think I know what youre talking about.
When I experienced the "Red zone" on psychedelics, it was presented to me as "reality breaking." Makes sense, you no longer have the structures you build to identify reality. The subconscious REALLY takes liberty in blending the gaps.
Ive always had a very strong, stable foundation to my perceptual organizational and rationality and emotional structures. Young on I thought a lot about how to be a "natural human" - to ignore what I was told about being a human (to a degree) and find out what emerged from me. Means I had some very intentional and very sturdy structures in my mind, still do to a large degree, and am slowly working my way down them and figuring them out. Not really intentionally, just seems to be where my feet are going
No, everyone sees them a little differently. But there are common features, like the strings of light.
I suppose there's more variation in how those are seen, because they don't "overlap" from a container, the way objects do.
>do I really care to really attempt to move my assemblage point?
No one who used power plants a lot ever does.
It spoils them for learning sorcery.
At least so far. And I guess some in here used them and do darkroom.
But I figure they didn't use as many.
The reason the others stop, is the same you just mentioned.
They believe they've already done it. So why bother with the hard work part?
Of course they haven't.
But they get furious when I point that out.
Usually I get attacked after that.
Oh no, I dont believe ive already done it, if anything I glanced out a window - its more "is this something I should/will actually put structured and consistent effort in achieving?"
Like for example, I mentioned that in many things, pushing to unlock it only forces the door shut. Further, im not certain I really believe in the view you have (no offense) enough to seperate a sixth of each day to practice a specific series of practices around silence, different than the ones I practice.
But that is why im talking to you, to learn more about your thoughts and the system of growth/development in that direction.
Edit - to clarify, I am doing work in practicing and fostering silence / natural flow, I mean more for the forcing myself into silence. Seems likely a fear/laziness rationalization
We don't make any money at this, it's not a religion, it's not a cult, and it's not an intellectual pursuit.
It's a negative to have people in here who aren't practicing but like to comment and post anyway. Especially the ones who believe they're on an alternative to the same path.
Unfortunately, I don't believe it's possible to explain to them why.
Or even how serious it can be to others.
We call it, "counter intent". But you'd have to have experienced the orange zone and the perils of trying to get there, in order to understand it.
So as harsh as it sounds, it's better if you go somewhere else.
For all of us, including you.
We've had at least 2 others like you come through here.
There's no reason to expect a different result.
But I don't control who posts in there. Best I can do is hasten a head explosion.
You don't seem like the exploding head type.
I do not know if I am on an alternate to the same path, just exploring in this conversation
You have a lot of information I havent heard, that I dont remember in my first reading in the books. I am trying to build an understanding of what youre talking about in context to what I know/what I have done.
Im not even totally sure what the path Im on is or where it leads. I am in a period between phases, reeling from banging my head into "the red zone" (these zones are something I havent heard of before you mentioned them,) reorienting, and observing. From what you are saying, it seems there is a lot more information about the casteneda path than I had realized.
I will say, I am a bit frightened due to my last experiences - cautious now. I know how dangerous going into altered states can be at points in which rational reality goes out the window without balance or equanimity. Part of me fears going back without extreme care, and exploring this on my own I end up walking slow. I think too slow, now.
edit - this reminded me, we have had some conversations before. I found one here https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/b5ih6k/rallying_the_second_attention/
I find it interesting, here you say "Carlos said he created the books as a "hook". Just let yourself get hooked for a while. I wouldn't advise trying to practice each one as you encounter it, that'll break the spell. Just try to increase your level of silence. That's something you can do, without actually having to make the time to do it." - it seems you are saying something different, now?
edit2 - oh im a bit dense, the red/orange zone on the j curve, got it. Yeah Im not sure if Ive moved it that far/experienced it moved that far - I dont know enough about them. Only time I read the books was about 6 years ago during my god complex, this sounds like a good time to read them again
edit 3 - as this has given me pause, I am doing some reading. Im finding this explination interesting - https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/obqx2a/detailed_description_of_the_j_curve/ - From that description I can hit the green zone quite easily, but I stop there and get engrossed by what emerges, then casually move on. I think I once actually got to the red zone, sober. Someone gave me LSD I knew was bunk but did not let myself consciously concede that. So I medidated for 2-3 hours focusing on the sensation of that comeup feeling and silencing all thought. When I opened my eyes, I experienced much of what this poster says the red zone is like. I did not continue to focus my attention, but instead played in that zone. 4 hrs later, I consciously realized the LSD was bunk, and the experience ended. I think Ive touched orange a few times at least on psychedelics, and I delifetely lost my cool three of those times, which is why Im taking it so slow and cautious right now. I think it does make sense to start practicing this again, I will have to watch that fear. From his descriptions, Ive went to the orange zone with the help of psychedelics, or a distorted version of it, and there certainly is great danger is going there the wrong way. That is a big reason I am cautious to start active practicing before I know ive learned and growd adequately from those mistakes
Just wanted to thank you for the conversation. It gave me a little push I think I needed. I spend a good bit of time looking into various meditation practices over the years and always felt they were missing quite a lot, it seemed silly to focus on them for 1 hr + a day when I was achieving similar results without doing it. Looking more into the j-curve after all this time has me realizing that a lot of what I was trying to explore is already mapped, here. I started practicing again yesterday, and certainly have some ways to go in silencing the mind. While I think im capable of slipping into the green zone, perhaps ive lossened my baseline assemblage point position/resistence - but it will take me some practice to be able to do more than slightly enter it (if I understand it correct) consciouslly.
So thank you for your honesty and info
Ive been reading and attempting the practice since we spoke. You were right, I was giving out a perspective that could be harmful to those trying to follow the path, and I was being a bad player. Im going to keep practicing, there seem to be swaths of information here about everything ive experienced so far, so I will keep to mostly lurking here and practicing.
I very much appreciate your reality check. It slapped me into motion.
You'll be the first if you keep it up!
Techno's always rooting for this sort of thing.
Ha, a worthwhile persuit then! Perhaps I can learn something useful. Ill say at least, this is the least dissonant practice ive engaged in, the results are undeniable - I first tried DRG the night after we spoke, before I read the experience/what to look for, and was honestly surprised by the fact that each of the things I saw/experienced are detailed in this sub. You all have done some amazing work so far. This is all much more distilled than the books, even
Perhaps moving down with less distraction/friction conserves momentum needed to go up (in addition to gaze-pull)?
Maybe, but as long as you're doing that, you'll get nowhere.
You'll just keep pretending, because you won't have anything to keep you honest.
Worse, you'll get snobby about it. Turning up your nose at magic, when in fact you have none.
In other words, you'll turn Buddhist.
The perfect patsy.
Taught to ignore magic, so you don't complain when there's none. You'll think you're doing good!
Taught it can take several lifetimes, so the temple has the biggest chance for you to be an idiot, and not figure out it isn't working and never will.
Taught the other guys, the ones in saffron clown suits up on a cold mountain have already achieved more than you ever will.
So shut up and keep filling the donation box.
I honestly don't think they know enough to plan what you suggest.
That would imply they can move it at all, except by accident.
You won't even be able to find a single Buddhist, who understands that you can simply move it, and achieve the results of his decades of meditation.
They don't even possess that knowledge.
Most couldn't even tell you why power plants work.
Paradox
I think ive settled the paradox, and its quite simple
Force silence
I thought i was further than i am, when i wrote that.
My last trip all that was repeating in my head was how our world is a paradox. Once you stop desiring something you allow it in your life. I think silent meditation and meditating on god gets my mind to become silent which I believe led me to this sub. I’m looking for more material on Castaneda rn while I’m at work.
One thing to note, this is an exclusionary practice. Dont mix it with other practices or things you think you know.
Read up on dark room gazing and the j curve. You can start practicing immediately.
Where can I read up on dark room gazing and the j curve if I may intrude
You can search them while in this subreddit and i believe there are resources at the sidebar
James Endredy has great descriptions of what the different levels of attention are and how to access them - beyond what Castaneda elucidated on.
Did he teach real sorcery to a lot of people or just sell his books?
LOL, considering his methods and teachings are within all the other descendant tribes surrounding mesoamerica, and my own effects - I'd say they're 100% real...
100% real methods and teachings leading beyond Castaneda? I was curious and so I visited his website. And I've already stopped at his welcome page. It's all about "my books, my books and my books". Good night.
Your self-importance will hinder your development no doubt...
New bad player spotted?
Sounds like.
He's probably a "groupie type". This is common on Facebook.
Groupie types haven't learned anything themselves, and never will.
They just like to go from place to place, absorbing new inventory from new "teachers".
The reward they get is in telling others they "found the best thing".
It's always horrible. What they found is always so bad, it makes you sad to see how they were tricked.
But they never learn. They don't want to.
So there's no reason to feel sad for them.
Sometimes they change.
But only after many, many years.
Such a waste of time...
It seems you’re also telling others that you “found the best thing,” no? What they’re describing is just the “best thing” they’ve found so far.
It's not about what you've found, but about what you work at.
What you work at, turns out to not matter that much; as long as your intent is in-sync with "The Intent of The Sorcerer's of Ancient Mexico." A rather specific thing in spirit, but not so much in outward form....which is why it's amendable to be continuously modernized and improved upon thru the centuries by the direct experience/feedback of those who practice it.
NO UNEXAMINED DOGMA in other words; like the lion's share of every other similar and esoteric human creation.
Dan is stating that the continuous searching (or reviewing) is what has to cease, to actually progress and evolve.
Irreducible energetic facts are also not dogma.
Dogma depends on beliefs, energetic facts don't.
Looking for magic ✨ instead of answers, is perhaps the most succinct way to put the mood of those ancient sorcerers.
Modern man is obsessed with answers...far too much for our own good (answers aren't necessarily facts, since everything is relative).
You deleted your other comment? That wasn't necessary. I wrote that answer:
Enlightenment isn't a permanent state. If you think it's different, you're in a dead end from the sorcery point of view. Stories about permanent enlightenment are dogma.
While moving the assemblage point along the J-curve, enlightenment is just as temporary as logic and rationality are in the usual position of the assemblage point. However, almost no one notices this because everyone is stuck in the dead end of reason.
It's a deeply personal decision to want to change this miserable state. It's not a question of intellect or ideology. What's experienced in inner silence are real and direct perceptions and not associations or interpretations.
Dogma is interpretation stuff. Where nothing's gonna interpreted, dogma is strictly excluded. Everything else is a dead end.
We're not interested in dead ends. Sorcery is a highway, the only known highway. No one ever found another highway like this.
According to your reasoning, you don't like the fact that there's only this one highway, and then it's supposed to be described in this totally crazy reddit group of all places. And yes, indeed, it may seem strange that in the middle of the labyrinth full of dead ends (we also call it the river of shit), there's only this single, tiny signpost pointing towards the highway.
This inconspicuous, lonely signpost seems so strange to almost everyone that people would like to destroy it, so that nothing at all reminds them of how broken life has actually become these days.
That's the situation.
This isn't a James Endredy sub. If you can go through his material and present a cogent presentation of what he has to say about different levels of attention, and how you think they're "beyond Castaneda," than that is worthy of debate.
Edit: never mind I see that you made a post here 4 months ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/lp1ego/james_endredy_advanced_shamanism_explains/
You are officially warned to stop it with the Endredy stuff.
We don't need any alternative explanations or additional practices when people have enough trouble even having the time to practice the ones that Castaneda himself used.
There are too many distractions in the world, as is, without overly-enabling individuals in our own sub to do the same.
Can you explain the J curve and the different points in it in simple words?
I like these two:
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/mtfwhb/even_better_j_curve_diagram
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/o6l11h/sorcery_pinball
I did a detailed description post a couple of weeks ago.
It is very important to locate what you experience in the J curve.
During a session, it lets you know where you are standing. Also, you can estimate quite precisely how long you need to get somewhere, and evaluate which direction to take.
But it is not a step by step that you can follow. I wish it were!
I can't even follow my own description, and if at some point I don't forget about it, I can't keep moving forward.
Changing the rules of the game means you have to give up "understanding" everything as procedures, as we normally do.
Wich is very painful at first! Remember we are men of Reason...
Thank you very much!! I'll check it out :D
It's beautiful!
It looks like an "Avengers" super hero at his computer system.
Last night I reached a level of silence I haven't seen before.
It comes and goes in the darkroom. A "different" kind of silence. One day you can find it, if you keep your concentration, then the next day it makes no sense. You can't find it again.
Self-sustaining silence.
But last night it was so absolute that I "knew" I didn't need anything else. Just to learn to hold that. It was a very odd feeling.
Each time I could create the "feeling", I saw perfect little vertical lines. The silence transformed the darkness into a scene of whitish energy, with some distinct vertical lines where I was focusing.
At that level of silence I was simply perceiving what was available in the direction I was facing.
Doesn't sound like much, but it was close to what I assume we were like, before we took a birth here.
Just a bundle of awareness watching what was there, with no motivations or prejudices.
Were they vertical lines staggered in an almost wave pattern?
No, but they certainly could have been.
Think of it this way.
We can't really perceive the emanations.
We can only perceive how our awareness flows in them, and echos back into our own shell, on the ones we also contain.
So we're always looking at an effect of the emanations, not themselves.
And although they have no motivations, because we can only see their effects you could say that "they don't like to be in their raw form".
That they long, even strive, to take shape.
Once they have a shape, it's one of trillions of possible shapes they could assume.
If they randomly jumped from shape to shape, we'd see nothing.
So they like to "stick" to whatever shape they have.
But, if you gaze away for a bit, and come back, they've mutated to another shape.
The glow of awareness dimmed a bit, moved, and the new result looks different.
When I first learned to see "the wall", I believed it always had vertical lines. Fine lines, like wood grain.
Then one day I experimented. I wanted to know if the vertical lines were more spread out, depending on which direction you were looking.
North, South, East, West.
So I tried it out. I gazed south for a while, then north, looking for differences.
I couldn't find any.
But now, I had "challenged" intent!
Suddenly, intent took perverse pleasure in switching the direction of the lines.
I'd glance east, and see horizontal lines. That got me excited, so I glanced north again, and found vertical lines.
Eager, I glanced back east expecting horizontal lines, but they were now diagonal.
So I looked back north, trying to "reset" with vertical lines, and I got worms.
Little round worms that seemed to be made of the same lines, having curled in on themselves.
I won't explain what happened next, because all of you might get to do this, by accident.
I discovered how to "play a game" with intent.
And it responded!
That's what Zuleica tried to teach us, with her outdoor "searching for power" game.
Intent "gifts you".
But not often enough.
If you want more often, you have to learn to engage it in a game.
Wow. Beautifully put, I appreciate you putting it into words
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After realizing we're practicing what was taught to us by Carlos Castaneda, some of us in person, and seeing if you like reading his books, next best is to read older posts in here.
I collected the ones I made which I felt had the nicest pictures for around a year, in a link on the side where the wiki is located.
But since then there's just too many posts.
The one on "Silent Knowledge" is likely the very best "map".
https://www.reddit.com/r/castaneda/comments/te7jnl/sometimes_theres_no_shortcut/
So tell yourself one thing first. Until you understand, it's the truth.
That picture is NOT an exaggeration.
That's REAL. You not only get to experience what you see there, but 100 times more.
Daily. For hours if you can find the time.
You'll make Harry Potter and Merlin the Magician look feeble.
Dr. Strange?
Well... At least he'll be jealous of you once in a while.
Last night I was compressing "Chaos Balls" of colored light, and throwing them down a tunnel that goes 6000 miles to where a witch lives.
I could "remote view" her surrounding area by gazing off at the puff, 6000 miles away.
For real. Eyes open. No drugs. Fully awake.
We kick the Buddha's skinny ass.
The Spanish text version of this on Instagram got likes at around 3 times the normal rate, of the English only posts.
Unless it's some sort of "Friday" coincidence that puts more eyes on their social media.
Looks to me like the Spanish speaking audience is bigger.
Yeah, friday probably helps, but remember the sorcery technique I teached you!
Use the Hashtags #!
I still haven't seen where to put those. Could be computer versus cellphone.
I'll try next time.
In the description. You can even choose to not use any text and only hashtags.
But I don't know if it works in computer. If it let you add a text, then it should work.
I'll try it. I was going to make an interesting diagram anyway.
Btw, I think we need to take a step more, Lilly was right.
I believe we have to call it "The New Sorcery Path".
That name may have some advantages, such as that people can make a difference with the teachings in lineages, like the one in the books.
This new path might have considerable differences, like bringing new profiles of apprentices.
And it should be described as something different. Of course, we won't have very detailed descriptions until we have more people learning.
I also had the feeling that we have to make it "more serious", and create a website, a book and videos on YouTube.
The path itself wants to work!
This is very helpful. Thanks.
I like how you guys are getting better at describing these abstract phenomena.
damn is that what that’s called.
Difficult to pull out the yardstick and gauge humanity as a whole. Some say where headed toward a world crisis while others say humanity is at a standstill and James l desper wrote a book called the end of history based off of the premises of Carlos Castaneda work. In other words I scan all the problems going on in the world while castanedians are having the time of their lives…..